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Reports of a twin otter missing in mother-loving Antarctica are coming out. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/plane-carrying-3-canadians-goes-missing-in-antarctica-1.1126539 quote:
At least it's not winter there. slidebite fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 21:35
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Yikes. I was going to post "good thing its mostly flat" but they went down in the mountains.
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Jan 24, 2013 05:37
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Also a lot of the flat part of Antarctica is at enough altitude to make things even more difficult, and it being flat doesn't really help things along too much.
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Jan 24, 2013 17:20
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slidebite posted:Reports of a twin otter missing in mother-loving Antarctica are coming out. Summer is a relative term in Antarctica. At McMurdo (the nearest station to his incident), the temperature only gets up to a few degrees above freezing in the summer, and it is goddamned cold in the winter; easily into the minus 30s for a high. The biggest problem with this region of Antarctica is the wind; the cold air from the interior comes screaming off the ice sheet and down the mountain valleys at incredible speed; winds of a hundred knots or more (Category 3 hurricane speed) are common and persistent this time of year. In fact, the wind is the biggest issue hampering the search right now. I hope they find these guys OK; there is a good chance I might know one or more of them.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:08
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Jesus, I hope they had good winter gear and somehow miraculously make it back. Doesn't look good though. Looking up more info, I stumbled onto a video of their DC-3Ts. Seeing a DC3 with turboprops is just weird. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMnAlvYafGA Edit: Here's a second video of them recovering a DC3T from a CFIT in Antarctica. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOwQuQfquRI ctishman fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jan 24, 2013 |
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Jan 24, 2013 21:11
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By weird you mean fly as all get-out, I presume.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:25
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Ridge_Runner_5 posted:Speaking of; F-35. What is the point in having a stealth aircraft if the only way it can do it's job is by hanging a bunch of not stealthy poo poo on external hardpoints? Has anyone in the military asked this yet? Know what I find even funnier? People talking about hanging jammer pods on it.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:22
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vulturesrow posted:Know what I find even funnier? People talking about hanging jammer pods on it. It amuses me to no end that it's the USMC that's leading that brain trust. Every time I see the phrase "stealthy jammer" I just start laughing. e: Came across the cool picture from the USAF's "This Week in Pictures," thought it belonged here:  Go here for big resolution. iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 25, 2013 |
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Jan 25, 2013 02:57
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PBS's new NOVA just showed up online. If you like drones go watch it. http://video.pbs.org/video/2326108547 iyaayas01 posted:It amuses me to no end that it's the USMC that's leading that brain trust. Hasn't there not been a new jammer program for years except for the new one that was just contracted? Other than RMIP programs and such.
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Jan 25, 2013 04:38
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MrChips posted:Summer is a relative term in Antarctica. At McMurdo (the nearest station to his incident), the temperature only gets up to a few degrees above freezing in the summer, and it is goddamned cold in the winter; easily into the minus 30s for a high. The biggest problem with this region of Antarctica is the wind; the cold air from the interior comes screaming off the ice sheet and down the mountain valleys at incredible speed; winds of a hundred knots or more (Category 3 hurricane speed) are common and persistent this time of year. In fact, the wind is the biggest issue hampering the search right now. I was thinking more about daylight than anything else.
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Jan 25, 2013 04:42
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Plinkey posted:Hasn't there not been a new jammer program for years except for the new one that was just contracted? Other than RMIP programs and such. Off the top of my head, I don't think the US has ever had a dedicated aircraft designed to be a jammer. B-29s, B-52s, F-111s, A-6s, F/A-18s...
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Jan 25, 2013 04:59
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Godholio posted:Off the top of my head, I don't think the US has ever had a dedicated aircraft designed to be a jammer. B-29s, B-52s, F-111s, A-6s, F/A-18s... Sorry, meant pod jammer. Also EA-18G 
Plinkey fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jan 25, 2013 |
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Jan 25, 2013 05:02
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Godholio posted:Off the top of my head, I don't think the US has ever had a dedicated aircraft designed to be a jammer. B-29s, B-52s, F-111s, A-6s, F/A-18s... Maybe just semantics but the mighty Prowler was most certainly designed to be a jammer. I see what you are getting at though.
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Jan 25, 2013 05:10
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vulturesrow posted:Maybe just semantics but the mighty Prowler was most certainly designed to be a jammer. I see what you are getting at though. I'd say there's a legitimate difference between an aircraft designed from the ground up to be an EW/EA aircraft (Prowler, Growler, Spark Vark, Compass Call) even if it's a (usually fairly extensive) modification of an existing airframe, and just hanging some jamming pods on a fighter and calling it good (like the Marines are ostensibly planning on doing with the F-35).
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Jan 25, 2013 05:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:By weird you mean fly as all get-out, I presume. I most certainly do.
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Jan 25, 2013 06:25
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iyaayas01 posted:I'd say there's a legitimate difference between an aircraft designed from the ground up to be an EW/EA aircraft (Prowler, Growler, Spark Vark, Compass Call) even if it's a (usually fairly extensive) modification of an existing airframe, and just hanging some jamming pods on a fighter and calling it good (like the Marines are ostensibly planning on doing with the F-35). Yeah basically what I was getting at, just didn't feel like typing it all out on my tablet.  As EW guy and patch wearer to boot I'm sort of frustrated with the state of EW in DoD. EA-6B pods are old as poo poo and showing their age. Hanging them off a Super Hornet airframe is really a band-aid fix when you get right down to it. EW is a huge force multiplier and it seems like DoD is really just letting it languish. To my mind hanging pods on an F-35 is beyond stupid. I really wish USAF and USMC would've gotten on board with the Growler and then we maybe would've had a more unified push towards a next gen jamming pod. In all honesty though a good deal of the EW mission could be handled via UAV, especially close in stuff, but again that's going to require some serious technology advancement on the jammer side of the house.
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Jan 25, 2013 06:31
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Not looking good for the Spitfire search:quote:Almost two weeks ago David Cundall’s dreams were - it seemed - about to be fulfilled. Not looking good for this landing: http://vimeo.com/57146636
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Jan 25, 2013 14:30
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vulturesrow posted:Yeah basically what I was getting at, just didn't feel like typing it all out on my tablet. Well the USMC was never down with the Growler for the same reason they are still overworking the poo poo out of their maintainers while rocking dogged out A-Ds and Harriers: they have a mental block for all things E-G related and buying a single Super Hornet airframe would be an admission of their poor planning and subsequent reliance on Navy airframes, parts and EW support.
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Jan 25, 2013 14:41
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Phanatic posted:Not looking good for the Spitfire search: So much sadness in those two points. Wonder how much it is to fix that Mustang engine after the prop strike.
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Jan 25, 2013 16:07
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Tell me why this is a stupid idea (besides cost) in the least condescending manner possible. Take a B-52 and stuff it with all the newest jamming equipment. Set up the interior so that the EW crew has some more space and better stations. Double the amount of flares and chaff it carries. Mount a few long and short range air-air missiles. Maybe even a few set up to fire backwards. Put a few air to ground missiles on it as well. Make sure a few are designed to take out radar/SAM sites. BAM! Long legged/high loiter time Jammer that could possibly defend itself from Air and ground threats or at least deter them somewhat if they see a missile heading their way. Something like this but with more B-52 sperglord input.
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Jan 25, 2013 16:34
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AzureSkys posted:So much sadness in those two points. Wonder how much it is to fix that Mustang engine after the prop strike. Even if the prop hub and everything behind it was fine... I think most places that do Packard Merlins budget around 850hrs for the overhaul. So figure 850*shop labor rate, plus any machine costs. In other words, $100-125,000. 
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Jan 25, 2013 16:38
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Phanatic posted:Not looking good for the Spitfire search: Holding too much speed in the flare. Wrecking airplanes since 1917.
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Jan 25, 2013 17:21
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Blistex posted:Tell me why this is a stupid idea (besides cost) in the least condescending manner possible. Dale Brown parachute account spotted.
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Jan 25, 2013 17:33
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Edit: Dammit!Blistex posted:Tell me why this is a stupid idea (besides cost) in the least condescending manner possible. People have been hoping they'd build the Old Dog for decades now. The Soviets may not have huge laser weapons but the plane should still fly!
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Jan 25, 2013 17:35
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Blistex posted:Tell me why this is a stupid idea (besides cost) in the least condescending manner possible. The B-52 already has some good jamming equipment. I've been on the receiving end. There are definitely systems that could be added for significant benefit, though. There's only so much useable interior space...yeah a BUFF is loving huge but I bet most of the interior isn't fit for human survival at altitude and to change that would require a complete rebuild of the interior (which takes 1-2 years per aircraft on a 707 platform). It carries a poo poo ton of countermeasures already. Air-to-air missiles would require an air-to-air radar, which would take years to integrate, if it's even possible with the outdated electrical systems. Missiles that shoot backwards don't go very far...they lose a lot of their speed (and thus, range) because they start out at several hundred negative knots. And you'd need another radar pointing backwards.
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Jan 25, 2013 18:29
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Boomerjinks posted:Dale Brown parachute account spotted. I've honestly never read any of his books, but know of him and his love of the BUFF (Flight of the Old Dog). Advent Horizon posted:People have been hoping they'd build the Old Dog for decades now. The Soviets may not have huge laser weapons but the plane should still fly! So are you saying this is actually a good-ish idea? :clancyfap: <-this needs to be made! Edit: just saw your second post.
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Jan 25, 2013 18:31
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Godholio posted:The B-52 already has some good jamming equipment. I've been on the receiving end. There are definitely systems that could be added for significant benefit, though. There's only so much useable interior space...yeah a BUFF is loving huge but I bet most of the interior isn't fit for human survival at altitude and to change that would require a complete rebuild of the interior (which takes 1-2 years per aircraft on a 707 platform). It carries a poo poo ton of countermeasures already. Air-to-air missiles would require an air-to-air radar, which would take years to integrate, if it's even possible with the outdated electrical systems. Missiles that shoot backwards don't go very far...they lose a lot of their speed (and thus, range) because they start out at several hundred negative knots. And you'd need another radar pointing backwards. The B-52 has a rearwards facing radar, granted its not so much for tracking as warning. You have to remember though, most of the interior space of the B-52 was designed just to hold the equipment, because the crew is required to be strapped in and sitting in combat so that if they must eject they are in their seats. Everyone gets an ejection seat in that bastard.
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Jan 25, 2013 18:33
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If you can get them to try launching ICBMs by throwing them out the back of a C5 while in flight, strapping a few bits onto a B52 should seem completely reasonable.
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Jan 25, 2013 18:40
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CommieGIR posted:The B-52 has a rearwards facing radar, granted its not so much for tracking as warning. Unless it's designed to support a missile, it's not capable of doing so. It's not nearly enough to put a dot on a screen, it has to be able to detect and locate accurately enough, at far enough range, translate that information into missile-speak, and communicate with the missile in-flight. The Buff can't do any of that. CommieGIR posted:You have to remember though, most of the interior space of the B-52 was designed just to hold the equipment, because the crew is required to be strapped in and sitting in combat so that if they must eject they are in their seats. Everyone gets an ejection seat in that bastard. Oh I know. That's one more challenge to overcome for a plan like the one suggested above. The whole thing is completely impractical, that's my point. iyaayas01 posted:I'd say there's a legitimate difference between an aircraft designed from the ground up to be an EW/EA aircraft (Prowler, Growler, Spark Vark, Compass Call) even if it's a (usually fairly extensive) modification of an existing airframe, and just hanging some jamming pods on a fighter and calling it good (like the Marines are ostensibly planning on doing with the F-35). Agreed, but we've never given EW the attention it deserves. InitialDave posted:If you can get them to try launching ICBMs by throwing them out the back of a C5 while in flight, strapping a few bits onto a B52 should seem completely reasonable. AWACS is now beginning full-rate upgrades to replace the 1964 computer that runs all the mission systems. "Reasonable" has absolutely nothing to do with military systems upgrade planning. Godholio fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 25, 2013 |
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Jan 25, 2013 18:47
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Godholio posted:Unless it's designed to support a missile, it's not capable of doing so. It's not nearly enough to put a dot on a screen, it has to be able to detect and locate accurately enough, at far enough range, translate that information into missile-speak, and communicate with the missile in-flight. The Buff can't do any of that. What about just loading it with jamming / EW antennas, and not worrying about the missiles? Maybe a few HARMs to lob in the direction of hostile radars, which it should have a receiver for.
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Jan 25, 2013 18:58
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Blistex posted:I've honestly never read any of his books, but know of him and his love of the BUFF (Flight of the Old Dog). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-52_Megafortress#EB-52_Megafortress But screw that, as awesome as a B52 is... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-52_Megafortress#REB-36D_Peacemaker_II_NAWCC Is 10 shades of awesome more awesomer.
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Jan 25, 2013 19:02
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Upper and lower decks of the buff @ the Pacific Aviation Museum on Ford Island in Hawaii. Click for big  
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Jan 25, 2013 21:30
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Ah, guess someone else got there first.
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Jan 25, 2013 21:44
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slidebite posted:I was thinking more about daylight than anything else. Long daylight can be of some help, but at the same time if there's so much snow being blown around that you have no reference to the ground, all the daylight in the world can't help you. An update to the situation; the weather has improved enough that they've been able to set up a forward base about 50 km from the beacon's position, from which the SAR helicopters can begin an air search. Also, I found out this morning that all of my friends are accounted for, thank goodness.
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Jan 25, 2013 22:28
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MrChips posted:Long daylight can be of some help, but at the same time if there's so much snow being blown around that you have no reference to the ground, all the daylight in the world can't help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_New_Zealand_Flight_901 quote:Outside there was a layer of cloud that blended with the white of the snow-covered volcano, forming a sector whiteout – there was no contrast between the two to warn the pilots. The effect was to deceive everyone on the flight deck, making them believe that the white mountainside was the Ross Ice Shelf, a huge expanse of floating ice derived from the great ice sheets of Antarctica, which was in fact now behind the mountain. As it was little understood, even by experienced polar pilots, Air New Zealand had provided no training for the flight crew on the sector whiteout phenomenon.
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Jan 25, 2013 23:00
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I just can't get over how unnecessary it was for that poor Mustang to get bent up. 1.3 Vso is 1.3Vso for a reason! Granted, i've never flown anything more sprightly than a Diamond Katana, but hoo boy that strikes of more money than brains.
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Jan 25, 2013 23:01
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Godholio posted:Unless it's designed to support a missile, it's not capable of doing so. It's not nearly enough to put a dot on a screen, it has to be able to detect and locate accurately enough, at far enough range, translate that information into missile-speak, and communicate with the missile in-flight. The Buff can't do any of that. Hm, they may eventually look at installing LAIRCM onto the B-52s as well as added protection to incoming missiles. Hell, why not throw a complete Phalanx system on it, shoot down incoming?
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Jan 25, 2013 23:43
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CommieGIR posted:Hm, they may eventually look at installing LAIRCM onto the B-52s as well as added protection to incoming missiles.
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Jan 26, 2013 00:08
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grover posted:It would make a lot of sense to mount combat lasers onto B-52s; would render them virtually invulnerable to missiles. Though, they'd still be vulnerable to ground-based lasers. When third world nations develop comprehensive laser-based defense systems, we'll worry about it. 
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Jan 26, 2013 00:15
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CommieGIR posted:Hell, why not throw a complete Phalanx system on it, shoot down incoming? The laser idea is a lot more likely, but I'd be surprised if that happens either. The short answer is "because the AF is poo poo at justifying any kind of future-need to get funding for long-term projects." See: F-22, AIM-120D (which is finally out, but years late), AWACS Block 40/45, and about a thousand other upgrade or acquisitions programs that might not have been complete wastes of money.
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Jan 26, 2013 01:54
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