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feedmyleg posted:Honestly, thinking from this perspective really opens up my mind as to where the story should go. Stripping away all the aliens and spaceships, what personal journey would freedom-fighting veterans be on 30 years after the war ended? A journey to the bathroom. Often. EDIT: Really the best thing they could do with a Han/whoever cameo would be basically handing the keys of the falcon over to the next generation of Solo children. Han and Leia shack up and make babies, her mainly forgetting about her jedi heritage to continue on the political scene. Luke feeling that the great evil of his time has been defeated wanders off into the desert to be a hermit, lamenting that his entire life was basically pointed towards making him a weapon at the emperors throat. Some new dark lord begins to amass power, and suddenly the force sensitive children (Ignore all EU bullshit) need to make a pilgrimage to find a crazy old hermit who may be their last and only hope. This gives you an excuse to have a scene where Luke faces off against the dark lord and in a moment of clarity allows himself to be struck down, creating a new cycle. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 06:25
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I think my biggest question is what will the threat be? As for the protagonists, it'll probably be the kids of the main cast with the originals as backup Obi-Wans, and they'll still fly in the Falcon. We'll probably have Luke training new Jedi, Han smuggling for the Republic, and Leia being involved with Alderaan's remnants, or at least general politics. I imagine that the Imperial Remnant will remain part of the setting, if not out-and-out villains. So, what's the bad guy? I don't feel like the films can go without having Sith be a major part of the universe, in which case do we resurrect the Sith of old? Do we retcon in secret apprentices? (I know there are already secret apprentices in the EU - Mara, Starkiller, etc - but it's not really been addressed in the films, which is the basis we're working from.) I can't really see any other option than that - a sort of Thrawn Trilogy with a little less Empire and a little more 'oh wait, actually, there were more Sith'. EddieDean fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 10:23
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EddieDean posted:I think my biggest question is what will the threat be? My opinion is that given Lucas' "poetry", the overall struggle will once again be a Skywalker struggling with the temptation of the Dark Side. Instead of falling to it or overcoming it on his own, the hero will overcome it with the love, help, and support of their family and friends. That's perfect for Disney.
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Feb 19, 2013 12:05
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Cheesus posted:Good questions. Sure, the Star Wars story suits Disney perfectly well. But I meant more in terms of what must be one of the top points on their list of Things to put in this film: #3. Put in a bad guy for them to do lightsaber fights with. (Whether that's one of our requirements or not, you can be sure it's one of Disney's.) EddieDean fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 12:22
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Part of what made Star Wars good was that its good/evil was basically pulled straight from Asian samurai/martial arts films and just updated with a fantasy feel. If you go the same route with it, and use the 2000s era Asian cinema as a basis, the bad guy becomes, I dunno, a gang leader that oppresses the poor and the hero is a complete loser who discovers a secret goodness inside of him that allows him to overcome the gang leader, I guess. I dunno. Or you could go back to the 90s and make it a heroic bloodshed movie with Jedi.
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Feb 19, 2013 14:42
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You mean the villain will be a Hutt?
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Feb 19, 2013 15:39
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Star wars/cowboy bebop. Cast han solo in Jet's place.
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Feb 19, 2013 16:45
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The problem with choosing a villain is that no matter who you pick / create, he'll be small potatoes compared to the Goddamned Emperor Of The Galaxy or Jet Black Warrior Robot.
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Feb 19, 2013 17:27
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MisterBibs posted:The problem with choosing a villain is that no matter who you pick / create, he'll be small potatoes compared to the Goddamned Emperor Of The Galaxy or Jet Black Warrior Robot. That's not really a problem. It's a new trilogy, starting a little smaller is probably the best idea, especially since a new cast of heros has to be set up as well. Whatever happens here can set up a bigger threat later.
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Feb 19, 2013 17:31
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MisterBibs posted:The problem with choosing a villain is that no matter who you pick / create, he'll be small potatoes compared to the Goddamned Emperor Of The Galaxy or Jet Black Warrior Robot. The problem with that line of logic is that you don't have to go bigger to be as or more interesting. It's what 99% of EU writers failed to realize.
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Feb 19, 2013 17:33
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MisterBibs posted:The problem with choosing a villain is that no matter who you pick / create, he'll be small potatoes compared to the Goddamned Emperor Of The Galaxy or Jet Black Warrior Robot. The only thing I can imagine which trumps those by default (though not necessarily in execution) is to revive the original Sith. "Hey, these guys invented being a Space rear end in a top hat, they really know how to corrupt dudes, and invented bad space magic Palpatine would have been lucky to even borrow."
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Feb 19, 2013 17:39
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I don't understand why it has to even be episode VII. Make it loving Episode XVII or something, especially since it has been almost 30 years since Return of the Jedi. Part of the cool of the original Star Wars being relabeled to "Episode IV" is that you felt like you were dropped into a cool serial already half way, and you got the gist of poo poo without needing to see the first three episodes. Of course leave it to Lucas to ruin his own cool by making the completely unnecessary (especially by his own logic of even picking the original "Episode IV" title) prequels.
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Feb 19, 2013 17:40
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MisterBibs posted:The problem with choosing a villain is that no matter who you pick / create, he'll be small potatoes compared to the Goddamned Emperor Of The Galaxy or Jet Black Warrior Robot. Why shouldn't they be small potatoes? The villain doesn't need to be some big bad existential threat to the galaxy who can crush planets with the power of his brain to be interesting. At the end of ROTJ the entire organized infrastructure of the Galaxy was thrown into flux by a fleet of fishmen, farmers and teddy bears. The odds that you would have anything resembling a competent or effective government after that are pretty much nill, any number of small rogue entities could create a large amount of disruption. Any figurehead villain presence only has to be an interesting character, being an overblown evil death incarnate puppetmaster would be stupid and that isn't the direction they should be trying to go at all.
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Feb 19, 2013 17:44
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The MSJ posted:You mean the villain will be a Hutt? With a lightsaber.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:28
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I really hope Luke is the new trilogy's main villain. A return to the corrupt, incompetent, racist Republic (as in the prequels) that would be almost indistinguishable from the Empire except for ~democracy~ and that it uses economic rather than military means to subjugate other planets would make for a great reason to have Luke 'turn' (or, rather, remain as a Rebel). Luke wouldn't, couldn't, and shouldn't be movie "evil" since that would pretty much negate what the previous trilogies have shown, but instead show the Rebellion from the other side of the aisle: as terrorists, pretty much. Luke's hero journey would be complete, going from a hero that stood against something into one that stands for something, even if he is maligned and hated for this. It would also be in line with how George Lucas gave the OT fandom the middle finger by turning it upside down in the PT, except that now the middle finger would be to everyone since Luke Skywalker would be the antagonist and since we'd finally be rid of the facile good guy / bad guy thing that people expect and even hope for. The transformation would be complete. Ninja edit: Basically, make Luke Skywalker into Big Boss.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:50
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I still think the movie opening with Han Solo being murdered a la The Comedian in Watchmen would be best. Leia asks Luke to investigate, forcing Luke leave his new Jedi Academy for the first time in ages. Stuff Happens and we find out it was a Hutt claiming old debts or something. The climax is Luke losing his cool and killing the Hutt. Luke hasn't had to deal with the Dark Side in so long that he's become complacent and spiritually weak. The final scene reveals that this was all being engineered by some new Sith Lord who wants to either corrupt or destroy Luke before he can rebuild the Jedi Order. Let's face it, there will be a Sith lord. Both the Jedi and the Sith were devastated after Episode VI, so maybe Episode VIII will show the new Sith academy on that EU planet from SWTOR Online.
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Feb 19, 2013 19:16
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I think maybe it should be a fun space adventure that doesn't take itself too seriously and cools it down on the loving laser swords. Abrams is a good choice because, like TNG-era Star Trek, the biggest problem with the prequel bullshit is how somber it all is, from the endless conferences to the sterile aesthetic.
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Feb 19, 2013 19:21
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If Luke is in the sequels I'm hoping they model him on Paul Atredies in Children of Dune and Dune Messiah.
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Feb 19, 2013 19:34
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I hated most of the EU because they tended to completely ignore the fact that Leia had potential to be a Force User as well. I think that she would have been a far more interesting Jedi woman than Mara Jade who was just a card board cut-out villain who became Good because of the power of Love. Or something like that. EDIT: McDowell posted:If Luke is in the sequels I'm hoping they model him on Paul Atredies in Children of Dune and Dune Messiah. Seconding this. Heck yes.
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Feb 19, 2013 19:45
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SpaceMost posted:I still think the movie opening with Han Solo being murdered a la The Comedian in Watchmen would be best. Leia asks Luke to investigate, forcing Luke leave his new Jedi Academy for the first time in ages. Stuff Happens and we find out it was a Hutt claiming old debts or something. The climax is Luke losing his cool and killing the Hutt. Luke hasn't had to deal with the Dark Side in so long that he's become complacent and spiritually weak. The final scene reveals that this was all being engineered by some new Sith Lord who wants to either corrupt or destroy Luke before he can rebuild the Jedi Order. I'd be happy if Abrams didn't cross the streams between the movie properties and SWTOR. Let SWTOR die the ugly death it deserves and leave the movie properties out of it. Now if the decision was made to integrate Darthomir from SWG, I'd be thrilled to see that.
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Feb 19, 2013 21:06
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McDowell posted:If Luke is in the sequels I'm hoping they model him on Paul Atredies in Children of Dune and Dune Messiah. Leto Atreides of God Emperor of Dune. Go Worm or Go Home. 
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Feb 19, 2013 21:31
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McDowell posted:If Luke is in the sequels I'm hoping they model him on Paul Atredies in Children of Dune and Dune Messiah. Thirding this. "And then he lived happily ever after and stuff happened, the end" is kind of lame.
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Feb 19, 2013 21:52
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The trick isn't power level so much as a primal sense of being "Evil" with a capital E. In the books Thrawn is kind of interesting but in the end he's yet another Imperial dude, just with a grasp of tactics. The Imperial remnant would just be a leftover political faction- an evil political faction but who really cares. (As for the Yuhzaan Vong- they just suck.) It should be some entity or group which really represents The Dark Side in its philosophy, just as Vader and the Emperor did. (They wouldn't even necessarily need to be using the Dark Side of the Force, though it should have some mystical element just to have that touch in it.)
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Feb 19, 2013 21:59
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Spaceman Future! posted:Why shouldn't they be small potatoes? The villain doesn't need to be some big bad existential threat to the galaxy who can crush planets with the power of his brain to be interesting. After a bad threat that can crush planets with his mind, though, a small-potato threat isn't interesting or compelling to me at all. Its the Scouring Of The Shire, or fighting Bandits in Skyrim after I've killed a World-Eating dragon-god.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:24
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The Dark Side as a theme doesn't apply only to Force-using characters. It just refers to the temptation to get what you want quickly and easily by doing something you know to be wrong. You don't need an apocalyptic threat to make a compelling story out of that, though having higher stakes can certainly help increase the drama. Whatever new thing drives the overarching conflict doesn't need to be bigger or more hopeless than what came before. The only thing that was actually at stake in The Empire Strikes Back, after all, was what the audience cares most about - the heroes themselves. The rebellion might have been doomed and the galaxy permanently hosed if Vader had succeeded in corrupting Luke, but what we care about is not the rebellion but Luke himself. There'll surely be new heroes, however, and it'd be an obvious and easily-avoided bad decision to have new heroes do nothing more than mop up after old problems, except insofar as all new problems grow from old solutions. Set it up so that the only way to escape defeat is with a desperate struggle against overwhelming odds made possible by some character's climactic decision to resist evil rather than capitulate. The villain's place in the galactic balance of power doesn't matter nearly as much as the villain's connection to the hero.
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Feb 20, 2013 00:03
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Rocket Ace posted:I hated most of the EU because they tended to completely ignore the fact that Leia had potential to be a Force User as well. Going off of The Secret History of Star Wars, this was because in Empire they wrote Yoda's throw-away line about an "other" in case Mark Hamill decided not to re-up or they made even more sequels beyond his contract; he could leave or they could kill him off and still have another plot thread to continue. When Lucas got tired of it all and decided Jedi was going to be the final movie they closed that off by making Leia the "other".
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Feb 20, 2013 01:10
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feedmyleg posted:The problem with that line of logic is that you don't have to go bigger to be as or more interesting. It's what 99% of EU writers failed to realize. The biggest threat to the New Republic that I've come across after spending too much time with crappy EU books is Thrawn. No Jedi mumbo jumbo - just being a good leader with great military insight and remnants of the Empire war machine. I wouldn't mind Disney picking up Thrawn but setting him up against other characters than Luke, Leia and Han.
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Feb 20, 2013 01:16
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Thrawn's not evil enough to be a huge villain, but I think if just the character were adapted, he'd have enough style to be a good secondary villain - filling the role of a Tarkin, a Boba Fett, a Jabba, a (dare I say it) Dooku or Grievous.
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Feb 20, 2013 01:19
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Going off of The Secret History of Star Wars, this was because in Empire they wrote Yoda's throw-away line about an "other" in case Mark Hamill decided not to re-up or they made even more sequels beyond his contract; he could leave or they could kill him off and still have another plot thread to continue. When Lucas got tired of it all and decided Jedi was going to be the final movie they closed that off by making Leia the "other". I wasn't around when the OT came out, and haven't read the Secret History, so it's weird to be reminded that nobody knew how many movies there would be in that series. Reminds me of line in Weird Al's Yoda about "making these movies til the end of time", which I guess isn't so inaccurate now.
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Feb 20, 2013 01:24
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Going off of The Secret History of Star Wars, this was because in Empire they wrote Yoda's throw-away line about an "other" in case Mark Hamill decided not to re-up or they made even more sequels beyond his contract; he could leave or they could kill him off and still have another plot thread to continue. When Lucas got tired of it all and decided Jedi was going to be the final movie they closed that off by making Leia the "other". This is actually the best avenue for a sequel; they should blatantly retcon it so that Leia is not his sister. It's not really important anyway, because it was just a makeshift plug for a plot hole that didn't really need filling, and consequently one of the worst narrative choices in Return of the Jedi.
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Feb 20, 2013 01:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is actually the best avenue for a sequel; they should blatantly retcon it so that Leia is not his sister. It's not really important anyway, because it was just a makeshift plug for a plot hole that didn't really need filling, and consequently one of the worst narrative choices in Return of the Jedi. But it had to be someone close to Luke for Vader's line "if you will not turn..." to drive Luke into a rage. That's the best scene in Jedi.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:14
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It would be easy to retcon that. Just say Obi-Wan was lying again.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:21
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Nah we saw both of them in Episode 3, and we're not retconing the prequels...yet. Also that revelation resolved the Han-Leia-Luke love triangle, so there's more reasons to keep it than toss it.
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Feb 20, 2013 03:21
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McDowell posted:Nah we saw both of them in Episode 3, and we're not retconing the prequels...yet. Hell, at this point forget about retconning the prequels, remake them wholesale.
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Feb 20, 2013 03:26
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MisterBibs posted:After a bad threat that can crush planets with his mind, though, a small-potato threat isn't interesting or compelling to me at all. Its the Scouring Of The Shire, or fighting Bandits in Skyrim after I've killed a World-Eating dragon-god. See, this is exactly why pretty much every sequel everywhere blows, writers who dont understand the difference between a major threat and an engaging villain. You can have a relatively low level villain who instigates a much larger threat, dude doesn't need need to be a big bombastic turbo remix of your last villain. If you're constantly trying to top yourself you end up with stupid crap like the suncrusher and emperor clones. The drive of your conflict has to be grounded, interesting, maybe intimidating but above all they should be something that doesn't force your plot into a self consuming one up cycle because it always ends up in tears, you end up with villains like that kid we all knew that had a laserproof vest and a gun that shoots completely unblockable fatal homing missiles and it fucks up everyone's fun.
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Feb 20, 2013 05:21
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Bongo Bill posted:It would be easy to retcon that. Just say Obi-Wan was lying again. Nah, it just turns out that Leia just didn't get any of the midichlorian genes from her daddy. Divine conception is all about the male line anyway.
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Feb 20, 2013 05:48
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Spaceman Future! posted:See, this is exactly why pretty much every sequel everywhere blows, writers who dont understand the difference between a major threat and an engaging villain. You can have a relatively low level villain who instigates a much larger threat, dude doesn't need need to be a big bombastic turbo remix of your last villain. If you're constantly trying to top yourself you end up with stupid crap like the suncrusher and emperor clones. The drive of your conflict has to be grounded, interesting, maybe intimidating but above all they should be something that doesn't force your plot into a self consuming one up cycle because it always ends up in tears, you end up with villains like that kid we all knew that had a laserproof vest and a gun that shoots completely unblockable fatal homing missiles and it fucks up everyone's fun. AKA DBZ. (KaaaaaMeeeeeHaaaaaaaMeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....)
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Feb 20, 2013 06:46
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Gyges posted:Nah, it just turns out that Leia just didn't get any of the midichlorian genes from her daddy. Divine conception is all about the male line anyway. Yeah, but, WHY remove her Force ability? I mean, why? I thought that everyone loved the gently caress out of Jedis. Leia could have ended up as a cool politician with some Force insight like the Bene Gesserit or something. And I really liked the idea of Leia eventually trying to help Luke with starting a new Jedi Order while struggling to balance such a task with her leadership responsibilities...
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Feb 20, 2013 19:00
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The original trilogy had an adolescent Luke being plunged into a conflict he wasn't psychologically prepared for. The prequels showed us what the Jedi are like having grown up in peace and having stagnated. For a decade post 9/11 Star Wars sequel I'd like to see what a generation of Jedi who have grown up knowing nothing but (the Galactic Civil) war look like. My three film outline would be to follow a group of Luke's first students (and let's have the backdrop being something akin to Thrawn's great counter-attack, because he's a decent villain template), have one of them fall to the dark side at the end of the first film and then spend the next two films trying to kill/redeem him. End with an uplifting 'love your enemy' message.
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Feb 20, 2013 20:59
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Alchenar posted:The original trilogy had an adolescent Luke being plunged into a conflict he wasn't psychologically prepared for. The prequels showed us what the Jedi are like having grown up in peace and having stagnated. This would be awesome. It would be a good way to have elements/references from the original and prequel trilogy (throw in some scenes of them studying the old council or something) without it being too obtrusive.
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Feb 20, 2013 22:27
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