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Yes it started out as a remake, so the initial release will have many maps from Halo (people like familiar things). Following releases will have new themes and new map packs I hope.
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Feb 22, 2013 02:41
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MisterFuzzles posted:So, I got an e-mail from Ice Pick Lodge regarding Knock Knock. It was only a "We need details to deliver your reward" kinda thing but as I haven't seen squat from them in quite some time could it mean something might be released soon? Did you miss the amazingly incoherent update about a month ago? They had to extend the dev time because of Reasons. I'm going to quote the ending bit because it's actually sort of relevant to the discussion about development around Banner Saga: quote:You may ask why we had to make all those erroneous builds to realize we were moving in a wrong direction. Couldn’t we have figured it out at once, composing the very first documentation?
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Feb 22, 2013 02:44
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ClickerMonkey posted:Yes it started out as a remake, so the initial release will have many maps from Halo (people like familiar things). Following releases will have new themes and new map packs I hope. Are you aware of IP and copyright laws regarding stuff like this? I don't know enough to say whether it covers maps or not, but they look really, really similar to the originals (as much as they could in voxels).
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Feb 22, 2013 02:45
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Yes, a coworker (at my day job) is a lawyer and patent agent and is my goto for questions on such things. It's odd... he's a lawyer yet he would rather sit around and program all day.
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Feb 22, 2013 02:47
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ClickerMonkey posted:Yes, a coworker (at my day job) is a lawyer and patent agent and is my goto for questions on such things. It's odd... he's a lawyer yet he would rather sit around and program all day.
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Feb 22, 2013 02:55
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"Halo with voxels" makes me even more unwilling to pledge than I already was. I wish there was some sort of anti-pledge I could give to your game. What does your game have to offer aside from an easy to use map editor?
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Feb 22, 2013 03:16
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Shalinor posted:It's legal, but I'm not sure "Halo in voxels" is how you want to sell your indie FPS. People kind of want a new game.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:18
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I don't like the "Halo" with voxels either to be honest... originally that's what it was and I wanted to generalize it so we could have any theme. My codeveloper already paid a guy a lot of money for that nice graphic... so we're sticking with "space theme" for the initial release. I have an awesome avatar now.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:24
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Haxel doesn't even succeed as a halo clone, because halo has vehicles as a major part of its gameplay, while at best they are just going to be a tacked on feature for this game.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:28
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ClickerMonkey posted:I don't like the "Halo" with voxels either to be honest... originally that's what it was and I wanted to generalize it so we could have any theme. My codeveloper already paid a guy a lot of money for that nice graphic... so we're sticking with "space theme" for the initial release. I don't think anyone wants to pay you for a bunch of voxel maps that you copied out of Halo. It wouldn't matter if you changed the theme to Ancient Egypt, and were shooting magical snakes - if you're doing stuff like flat out copying the layout of Hang 'Em High, people are going to notice (and be rightly upset). Game design needs to involve actual design. Game design isn't making an engine then copying the maps out of a different better game. Which, considering your mentions of the weapons just being a bunch of unbalanced numbers right now - kinda sounds like what you're doing. What are you doing that is original? "Hang 'Em High but made of cubes" is not original. EDIT: VV So you really are going to ship with a bunch of copied maps, and just hope the community makes better original maps? Um. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 03:36
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It's like you're missing the point all together, this has way more stuff than Halo has, I never claimed it was going to be simply a clone. It's a destructible world with interactive environments, way more interactive than what was found on Halo. Not to mention anyone can make maps and play them with friends, they can be any game mode or theme imaginable. The only reason why Halo has ever been mentioned because we decided it would be a good game that hasn't been done for a "voxel" game (other FPS have been done in Minecraft clone). We just want to create some levels similar to Halo's so people are familiar and can jump right in.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:37
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Shalinor posted:Game design needs to involve actual design. Game design isn't making an engine then copying the maps out of a different better game. Which, considering your mentions of the weapons just being a bunch of unbalanced numbers right now - kinda sounds like what you're doing. I completely agree, a few Halo maps are all I was going to add... I know I can create way better maps than Halos.. I'm just trying to establish SOME kind of base with gamers to understand... I mostly have mapper/modder information for the KS since that's what I have done - I'm still working on the game play. This is the point of this KS, at least I have something done which is way more than what you can say about most KS games. Shalinor posted:What are you doing that is original? "Hang 'Em High but made of cubes" is not original. If I were selling a map, you're right.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:40
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Most games with a community shipped with a high quality ORIGINAL experience before it attracted a community of modders and mappers. If your game has so much more than Halo, then you should be making maps that leverage that fact to the fullest so out of the box your game is fun. If people wanted Halo they'd play Halo.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:42
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So lets say I'm not at the point where I can put the time in to create some nice levels. Do I not show any levels on the KS at all? Or do I show them? I decided to show them and add plenty of warnings on the KickStarter that the maps, models, and art is lacking. I mention it in like 10 places.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:44
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ClickerMonkey posted:I decided to show them and add plenty of warnings on the KickStarter that the maps, models, and art is lacking. I mention it in like 10 places. ClickerMonkey posted:The only reason why Halo has ever been mentioned because we decided it would be a good game that hasn't been done for a "voxel" game (other FPS have been done in Minecraft clone). We just want to create some levels similar to Halo's so people are familiar and can jump right in. ... but now you're saying no, those are just placeholder. I've never seen a backpedal quite that fast. Careful, you might trip over a voxel, and break the destructible environment.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:47
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Sorry I wasn't clearer, that one map (Hang-em-High) - which is 20% done, will definitely be shipped. I said it will be, but It's in no shape right now.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:51
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ClickerMonkey posted:Yes, a coworker (at my day job) is a lawyer and patent agent and is my goto for questions on such things. It's odd... he's a lawyer yet he would rather sit around and program all day. Do not take legal advice from non-practicing co-workers. Laws change every year, and if he doesn’t have up to date info it can hurt you. I hope he starts and ends every conversation with "you should check with a currently practicing lawyer on this". This is something everyone should listen to. Only get legal advice from actively practicing state registered lawyers. Some guy who went to law school 20 years ago can call himself a lawyer but he can’t give you accurate legal advice. Plus you have no recourse if he did tell you incorrect info and you get sued. With a contracted lawyer they then take that liability onto themselves.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:55
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TyrsHTML posted:Do not take legal advice from non-practicing co-workers. Laws change every year, and if he doesn’t have up to date info it can hurt you. I hope he starts and ends every conversation with "you should check with a currently practicing lawyer on this". He is always up to date with information (he gave me the same forewarning about other lawyers). Aside from that I haven't asked him for professional advice yet, I still have a month trial period using practicing lawyers from setting up an LLC.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:00
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So Haxel is just a rip off of Ace of Spades with stolen halo maps right?
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Feb 22, 2013 04:18
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You trolls are wasting my time =P (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 22, 2013 04:20
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ClickerMonkey posted:You trolls are wasting my time =P No I was serious what is the difference between your game and Ace of Spades?
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Feb 22, 2013 04:22
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ClickerMonkey posted:He is always up to date with information (he gave me the same forewarning about other lawyers). Aside from that I haven't asked him for professional advice yet, I still have a month trial period using practicing lawyers from setting up an LLC. You gotta chill out man and stop responding to every post that comes up here one by one and concentrate on your stuff. There was a guy just before you in this thread that got heavy criticism for his presentation. He listened to it, and came back with a pretty kick rear end video for his game. I think the engine you developed looks pretty powerful, maybe easy to use. The issue is that all of your levels are just big boxes with environmental lighting gradients that go from green to blue. It doesn't show off the possibilities of it at all. People make convincing as hell builds within Minecraft, but you have a lot more shapes, colors, and texture possibilities. I know you already got your kickstarter up, but I'm gonna make a suggestion. Release a mini editor that people can build in your engine with. This made people totally crazy for Spore, and there is another goon here with a game Kinetic Void who released his ship editor alongside his kickstarter and people went nuts with that. And that way you don't have to spend your own time making nice looking things with the engine.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:23
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AllanGordon posted:No I was serious what is the difference between your game and Ace of Spades? My apologies, I thought it was obvious, but of course it is to me =P I value several things that AOS doesn't have: * Better graphics (art, models, particle effects, lighting, shapes) * Better map design (placement, architecture, organization) * Better map editor (than anything I've seen period) * Better game play (AOS is atrocious when compared to Halo, COD, UT, HL, Doom, etc) * Realistic Physics * Destructive environments that retain their destruction and look nicer.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:28
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Uncle Jam posted:You gotta chill out man and stop responding to every post that comes up here one by one and concentrate on your stuff. There was a guy just before you in this thread that got heavy criticism for his presentation. He listened to it, and came back with a pretty kick rear end video for his game. Believe it or not I'm trying to do the same thing right now Uncle Jam posted:I think the engine you developed looks pretty powerful, maybe easy to use. The issue is that all of your levels are just big boxes with environmental lighting gradients that go from green to blue. It doesn't show off the possibilities of it at all. People make convincing as hell builds within Minecraft, but you have a lot more shapes, colors, and texture possibilities. I agree, you need to have trust in my mapping ability and a good imagination - the former I don't show off that well. Uncle Jam posted:I know you already got your kickstarter up, but I'm gonna make a suggestion. Release a mini editor that people can build in your engine with. This made people totally crazy for Spore, and there is another goon here with a game Kinetic Void who released his ship editor alongside his kickstarter and people went nuts with that. And that way you don't have to spend your own time making nice looking things with the engine. I'm debating about this, but this is always scary... given the language this is written in this could be easily ripped apart in days and people could create their own. Suggestions on deterring this?
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Feb 22, 2013 04:31
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I'm not lawyer, I'm not a copywriter, and I don't have a business degree, but drat dude please don't drop this kinda dramabomb if you wanna get sales or--in this case--contributions. If I had to guess, rule #1 is to never insult potential consumers or marketers in a pitch or post-pitch setting. We talk sufficient poo poo about Kotaku here, but there isn't a single one of us who'd, upon releasing a title, express our negative opinions on games journalism publicly. Words like these? The only feet you're stepping on is your own.
Fur20 fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 04:31
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ClickerMonkey posted:My apologies, I thought it was obvious, but of course it is to me =P You must show all of these things in your pitch, even if it's just one map, one set of gameplay, for people to believe you. If you do not have a reputation, your success hinges on what you can show. It's no good telling us you can make a better map than what you have with the tech you have, you need to show it for real otherwise why should we buy into it?
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Feb 22, 2013 04:32
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The White Dragon posted:I'm not lawyer, I'm not a copywriter, and I don't have a business degree, but drat dude please don't drop this kinda dramabomb if you wanna get sales or--in this case--contributions. If I had to guess, rule #1 is to never insult potential consumers or marketers in a pitch or post-pitch setting. We talk sufficient poo poo about Kotaku here, but there isn't a single one of us who'd, upon releasing a title, express our negative opinions on games journalism publicly. Words like these? The only feet you're stepping on is your own. I didn't know how else to respond to his remarks on AOS (now I know having responded), I can't tell if people are purposefully provoking me to leave this or if they're genuinely unaware/curious. I'm enjoying this thread although I'm having issues obviously gauging you guys. I haven't gotten this much feedback from any place else, and even if it's negative most of it brings up valid concerns that do nag and have been nagging away at me before we went live with KickStarter. Maluco Marinero posted:You must show all of these things in your pitch, even if it's just one map, one set of gameplay, for people to believe you. If you do not have a reputation, your success hinges on what you can show. It's no good telling us you can make a better map than what you have with the tech you have, you need to show it for real otherwise why should we buy into it? I agree, there are many games on KS that have nothing done, people rely entirely on imagination and story. I thought I was well placed because I have substantial game to show, I suppose with the type of game I'm making I do really need way more done - but that's the problem I lack the time and need KS to do this.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:39
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ClickerMonkey posted:I'm debating about this, but this is always scary... given the language this is written in this could be easily ripped apart in days and people could create their own. Suggestions on deterring this? If your game is incomplete, you really shouldn't worry about people stealing what you have, be concerned about what you can add. Most people who know how to use decompilers are typically better off writing their own games anyway.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:41
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ClickerMonkey posted:I didn't know how else to respond to his remarks on AOS (now I know having responded), I can't tell if people are purposefully provoking me to leave this or if they're genuinely unaware/curious. I'm enjoying this thread although I'm having issues obviously gauging you guys. I haven't gotten this much feedback from any place else, and even if it's negative most of it brings up valid concerns that do nag and have been nagging away at me before we went live with KickStarter. DO have a business degree. The answer is: DONT. In fact I’m going to use my marketing experience to give you a hint. Never ever say negative things. If you think they are a troll ignore them. If they give advice smile and accept it. Don’t argue. You don’t have to implement it, but don’t act like you know better. In fact you should be thanking people. The fact that they are asking questions giving advice means you haven’t completely lost them. You are well along that road at this point. Don’t answer any question you are not 100% on. Back pedaling looks really bad. Stop posting, go work on your thing, and come back when you have more to show. edit: also don’t be this guy and forget to spell check everything. No one trusts someone who cant take a minute to look over his stuff. TyrsHTML fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 04:50
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ClickerMonkey posted:I agree, there are many games on KS that have nothing done, people rely entirely on imagination and story. I thought I was well placed because I have substantial game to show, I suppose with the type of game I'm making I do really need way more done - but that's the problem I lack the time and need KS to do this. The thing is, not to be harsh, but you have an engine at the moment, not a game. You are promising heaps of gameplay variants, and have not built any more than placeholder material for the game itself. The weapons, the maps, all placeholder. How can we guage your ability to create quality game content and not just an engine, which is admittedly cool. You have to play to what you can show Also, you have to understand that SA communities do not have a history of pulling punches, especially when it comes to criticism. My own projects have copped a beating when I've shown them on here, but they were all the better for it. Approach it objectively, keep a respectful tone and the rest of the community will reciprocate. Argue for your own standpoint but understand that you are only entitled to what you can argue for. Adopt this mindset and we'll be able to help you, because your weaker ideas and preconceptions will be shown for what they are. Maluco Marinero fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 04:50
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TyrsHTML posted:I DO have a business degree. The answer is: DONT. Infact im going to use my marketing experience to give you a hint. Ok thanks, will do. Believe it or not, in all interviews, messages, and emails I've dealt with these problems very nicely... I was called shilly so I thought I needed to act less enthusiastic/proper and more down to earth.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:52
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XboxPants posted:This makes sense if there's a fixed amount of money coming into KS, and huge projects take money away from smaller ones. What actually seems to happen, though, is that huge successes expand Kickstarter's total audience. Because of that, smaller projects actually benefit from the huge ones because they increase the total amount of Kickstarter users, which increases the chance that a smaller project will get funded. Bit late to this discussion, but I wanted to agree with this. Kickstarter as a whole is definitely improved by big name projects that grab media attention, if it wasn't for the million-dollar campaigns most people would never have even heard of the site. Those big projects funnel hits into Kickstarter and a lot of people browse the site after contributing to a big project and fund a couple of small ones too. The down side is that the little guys can be pushed out of the most popular lists and Kicktraq if there are too many big projects up at the same time, and the media only has a finite amount of "giving a poo poo" about Kickstarter which big name projects quickly use up. We experienced both of these effects around Christmas with Predestination's campaign due to Godus, Elite, Dizzy and a few others being up at the same time and hitting the media hard. There's no way to tell if the net effect was positive or negative for us as a small project, but even with so many big names up we hit 200% of our goal, so even if it was negative it's clearly not a big problem. I think the most important use of Kickstarter is to fund things that wouldn't otherwise be possible, regardless of size. Double Fine Adventures was about making a game that publishers wouldn't touch with a barge pole and even breaking free of the publisher/contract model altogether, and that makes it just as worthy of a punt as any small indie project being developed by a volunteer team on a shoestring budget.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:20
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NmareBfly posted:Did you miss the amazingly incoherent update about a month ago? They had to extend the dev time because of Reasons. I'm going to quote the ending bit because it's actually sort of relevant to the discussion about development around Banner Saga: Is it? Ice Pick Lodge has a number of games under their belt, while the Banner Saga guys have none. Ice Pick Lodge are creating another abstract experience, which no one not even themselves can exactly quantify in development time, while the Banner Saga guys are following a plan to create a strategy game, complex but predictable. One gave us a reasonable estimation of when their project would be done, the other gave us a release date and a plan, said plan being changed from what was promised and the deadline pushed over for a whole year later. One barely made its funding goal, the other got it seven times over. Do you understand why this is a bad comparison? I'd wager most people here would give the benefit of doubt to IPL, but I'm not so sure the same courtesy would be extended to Banner Saga. I personally feel we are looking at a rather badly managed project later turned into a scam out of despair. That may turn out not to be the case, but boy, would I feel absolutely enraged had I backed that project.
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Feb 22, 2013 11:11
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So, Project Awakened? They plan on showing possible UE4 stuff? How many games have we seen with that engine now besides tech demos?
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Feb 22, 2013 12:15
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Honestly I think the Project Awakening guys need to stop the kickstarter now (or maybe let it run its course in hopes of getting fully funded which I seriously doubt will happen) and come back in 2 months when they're more prepared. They need to make it clear that it will be a PC-centric (PC only for he foreseeable future) Unreal Engine 4 title, release exclusively, or almost exclusively, UE4 videos instead of a ton of UE3 ones and promising the UE4 footage is coming really soon guys we promise oh wait there's only 5 days left in the campaign. They need to make it unequivocally clear what assets if anything they're bringing over from the old Midway project (and how it affects PA and makes it seem less scammy since they're asking for not a lot of money for a very ambitious project). Ditto for multiplayer and modding, and their base functionality with the 500K release and what the stretch goals would do to improve those systems. An ambitious and exciting looking concept (a lot of the gameplay videos so far are pretty underwhelming) ruined by a loving terrible funding campaign and marketing. Such a shame because I really want to play open world action City of Heroes  Maybe Infamous: Second Son which was announced at that PS4 event and seems to be a spin-off of the main series will fit the bill somewhat.
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Feb 22, 2013 12:35
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Shalinor posted:What are you doing that is original? "Hang 'Em High but made of cubes" is not original. I don't know, man, maybe not Hang 'em High because it wasn't that good, but I would totally pledge for a project that was "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" made of cubes. Actually I would pay for any project that was a game about a Sergio Leone movie in any form. It's gotta have music by Ennio Morricone though.
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Feb 22, 2013 13:30
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Speaking of music, that trailer for Ithaka of the Clouds featured one specific song from Sea Will Claim Everything. I loved that one so much I decided to track it down and turns out the whole album is on bandcamp at whatever price you want to pay it for. The specific song I was looking for is number 8, Plingpling Fairydust. You should listen to it; it's beautifully soothing.
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Feb 22, 2013 13:38
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Saoshyant posted:Is it? Ice Pick Lodge has a number of games under their belt, while the Banner Saga guys have none. Ice Pick Lodge are creating another abstract experience, which no one not even themselves can exactly quantify in development time, while the Banner Saga guys are following a plan to create a strategy game, complex but predictable. One gave us a reasonable estimation of when their project would be done, the other gave us a release date and a plan, said plan being changed from what was promised and the deadline pushed over for a whole year later. One barely made its funding goal, the other got it seven times over. I agree that it's a bad comparison, but I backed the Banner Saga and I'm perfectly happy. I was in the first phase beta back in October but haven't really poked it again until this week. I was surprised how long the beta went on (I was expecting a couple of months tops), but what has come out is really polished, finely-tuned turn-based combat that will hopefully make the single player much better. With the obvious exceptions of the net-code and the store, all the work put into the multiplayer is supposed to be being folded back into the single player and vice-versa - there was an in-depth update talking about the single player a few weeks ago in fact I'm really surprised anyone thought the November 2012 release date was still on the table, same thing has happened to DFA, I figured in both cases the extra money would probably lead to something like an extra year of development and that's a good thing in my book. I'm sure I saw them flat out state recently that the money earmarked for single-player development hasn't changed (and given they're using outside studios for animation, sound etc. presumably all that was being worked on throughout the multiplayer beta), I'll see if I can dig it up. [Edit] Various places but this comment on RPS is as good as any It's true that the existence of the microtransactions wasn't made clear to backers unless they got involved in the beta, frequented the forums/Kickstarter comments, or got the news elsewhere (first reference to it I recall that wasn't a passing comment was this RPS interview from the beginning of October), which was a very unfortunate bit of miscommunication given how vehement some people are about the subject. Personally, I'm not fussed as long as they're not obnoxious; I did think progression was a tad too slow when I checked it out, but then I did keep losing which didn't help  , and apparently they've tweaked it a bit already, though haven't had time to look.Also I pledged for the poster which is in my living room and looks freaking *awesome*, so there's that. On the other hand the fact that they're not porting Factions to Linux etc. right now kinda sucks, I understand the argument that they don't want to lose development momentum messing around with ports, but it's unfortunate. Illessa fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 15:01
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Reading that RPS interview, I feel like if it had been written a month ago instead of half a year ago, the current vibe would be rather different.
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Feb 22, 2013 15:42
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Have anyone been following Death inc? It looks intriguing at first glance but is it good or bad? Doesn't look like it'll make it to goal in its remaining 12 days though.
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Feb 22, 2013 15:45
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