|
Hey, I'm about to paint some metal Warmachine guys after painting some plastic Hordes guys. Does anybody else use paint a layer of Gesso on their models before starting the real painting? I read that tip in a how-to for painting the figures that come with the D&D board game Castle Ravenloft and I used it while practicing on some old Mage Knight figures but I thought it ended up making the layers too thick and killing some of the detail. If I did use Gesso, would that work as a base or should I paint on the stuff, then a base coat, then paint->washes->highlights?
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 01:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:38 |
|
|
There is a spray called 'primer' sold under any brand of modeling paint (and also under Krylon), and it accomplishes what you're talking about. Gesso is generally for painting on flat surfaces. Primer contains thinning and viscosity affecting ingredients that allow it to provide a base without screwing up detail. Most brands have a black, white, and gray primer, it is a matter of taste and application which you choose. Black can make it easier to shade, but harder to get the right number of smooth coats for bright color. Gray is a compromise that some people find good for nothing and others swear by. Many of the more advanced painters use a black primer coat aimed 'up' from 'below' the model for cheap shadows and white from 'above' for cheap highlight. Those by no means accomplish all the coloration by themselves, but help to affect the layering required for any final effects, and can give the impression of basic single point lighting with less loving around(*) *-technical term for layers of paint * minutes per application * number of mistakes you made that requires you to do a section over.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 01:26
|
|
|
OneTrueBru posted:When you say "bright colours but with highlights in crevasses", do you mean shading recesses manually, to avoid a full wash of the armour? Man do I wish I could paint Yellow like that. Could you go into more detail about which colours and techniques you used?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 01:43
|
|
|
Ah, thanks. I thought the Gesso was a little bit weird to use on minis and I had never heard of anyone using it before. Also, I feel kinda stupid because I've been doing Gesso->Black Primer for no reason. I started painting a few years ago but only really started looking at guides and stuff recently. That, combined with the fact that the closest gaming store was a four hour drive away means most of my supplies are from Wal Mart. I use mostly cheap Apple Barrel acrylics and I've started slightly thinning them out with distilled water. Should I order up some "real" model paints now that I'm planning on playing regularly in public? A new store opened much closer and they carry mostly GW stuff but I could just order from somewhere online. Would the paints make that big of a difference in the final product?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 01:44
|
|
|
Working on my oath and I finished up this guy tonight  
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 01:56
|
|
|
OneTrueBru posted:According to their equivalency .pdf, it's "Extra Opaque Heavy Brown". I love you. I'll grab some of the Heavy Brown tomorrow and do a comparison paint splotch myself, but I'm sure it'll be fine. It's just a basecoat color for my Word Bearers, using the White Dwarf painting guides for the models that have been featured in the new 40k rulebook. It doesn't have to be perfect, I just want a bone color that will cover over black well, and the VGC ultra opaque rack at the LGS was pretty intimidating. jodai: Save gesso for canvases, if you absolutely positively must prime with a brush instead of a rattlecan, buy some of Vallejo's airbrush primers. The black/gray/white come in giant 200mL bottles which will last you a lifetime and it's a far better brush on primer than gesso, it is much thinner and doesn't require as many touchups as gesso because it doesn't shrink as it dries. You can also water it down a tad much easier. As someone who has used gesso in the past, take it from me that there is no place for it in a modeler's repertoire right now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 01:57
|
|
|
jodai posted:Hey, I'm about to paint some metal Warmachine guys after painting some plastic Hordes guys. Does anybody else use paint a layer of Gesso on their models before starting the real painting? I read that tip in a how-to for painting the figures that come with the D&D board game Castle Ravenloft and I used it while practicing on some old Mage Knight figures but I thought it ended up making the layers too thick and killing some of the detail. If I did use Gesso, would that work as a base or should I paint on the stuff, then a base coat, then paint->washes->highlights? Priming with Gesso is fine, but airbrush / spray priming is a lot faster. It goes on goopy, but tightens up pretty nice without obliterating detail.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 03:51
|
|
|
Gesso is garbage and only allowed if you live somewhere with 90%+ humidity and don't have the money for an airbrush and vallejo primer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 03:56
|
|
|
TastyAvocado posted:Done a little bit of painting the last two days, some red box minis (the knight with the mace I did and posted earlier). Great sculpts. The zombies may need a little work, I did them super fast. Haven't figured out ow I'm going to base them either. I would absolutely use the scheme on the knight for some Cryx. May I ask your recipe for the armor plates and trim?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 04:15
|
|
|
Indolent Bastard posted:Gesso is garbage and only allowed if you live somewhere with 90%+ humidity and don't have the money for an airbrush and vallejo primer. It's not allowed even then, you can brush on vallejo primer with a paintbrush and it's 100% better than gesso.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 04:17
|
|
|
Welp, I guess that answers the question of whether I was just using gesso wrong, myself. Guess I can write of the tube of it that I bought. I'll probably hunt down some Vallejo stuff sometime soon (just in time for it to be possible to spray prime again).
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 04:43
|
|
|
The Vallejo primer brushes on very well also. It's worth getting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 05:03
|
|
|
What is the issue with gesso? I've been priming exclusively with black gesso because I didn't realise there was primer you could spray through an airbrush. It's getting to be a pain in the rear end with the vehicles I'm working on because it pulls away from the sharp edges. Other than that I haven't really had a problem with it, other than needing to give things a couple of light coats rather than one medium-heavy one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 05:13
|
|
|
You can prime with regular acrylic paint (brushed or airbrushed on!) if you're not a ham-handed butt baby that gets their grimy fingers all over their current painting project instead of fixing it to a cork or bottle cap or something.  And you have to varnish afterwards, but you should be doing that anyway (if you're not a dummy).
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 05:35
|
|
|
Silhouette posted:You can prime with regular acrylic paint (brushed or airbrushed on!) if you're not a ham-handed butt baby that gets their grimy fingers all over their current painting project instead of fixing it to a cork or bottle cap or something. My colours are golden acrylics and are tedious to spray properly (need to mix with airbrush medium, etc etc). I have zero problems with detail obscuration with liquitex gesso, its just a pain in the rear end to apply. I may try the vallejo stuff, see if it's an improvement in my hands. I'm sealing with a few coats of future floor polish and then future + flat base until I get the flatness I want, they're pretty rock solid (you can take a file to them and not mess up the paint).
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 06:30
|
|
|
Paper Mac posted:What is the issue with gesso? I've been priming exclusively with black gesso because I didn't realise there was primer you could spray through an airbrush. It's getting to be a pain in the rear end with the vehicles I'm working on because it pulls away from the sharp edges. Other than that I haven't really had a problem with it, other than needing to give things a couple of light coats rather than one medium-heavy one. Same. I use gesso, black and grey, through an airbrush without any issues or loss of detail.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 06:57
|
|
|
 I've been doing some work on my contemptor dreadnought.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 07:05
|
|
|
Wazzu posted:Man do I wish I could paint Yellow like that. Could you go into more detail about which colours and techniques you used? The yellow is fairly straightforward, as it's mostly just quick airbrush coats (all the paints used are VGC ones): Airbrush: 1) Vallejo grey primer (it's pretty light, so I don't think using white would make a huge difference) 2) Basecoat with Heavy Goldbrown 3) Sorta-zenithial Sun Yellow, just avoid spraying at an upwards angle to leave some goldbrown as shading Bog-standard brush: 4) "Black"lined using watered-down Beasty Brown 5) Edge highlights with 1:1 Sun Yellow:Bonewhite 6) Hit prominent edges with pure Bonewhite That's it, nothing super-fancy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 10:07
|
|
|
I've used gesso more or less exclusively for years since there's no good place to spray in my apartment complex + it's super humid here, and it's fine. Anyone who's saying it's complete garbage is just being dogmatic about their chosen method of painting space mans.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 11:19
|
|
|
Note: Never throw anything away you've bought for painting mini-mans! Not in a hording sense, but trust me at some point you'll use it. The guy who said he'll toss away his tube of gesso if its no good? Even if you do switch to a different primer, keep it and then use your gesso on bases and scenery! Some with the peeps who started out with rough art paints then moved to mini paints. I can't believe how much stuff I nearly threw away and now use regularly. I'd be rebuying bits all over the place to keep making the stuff I'm doing atm.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 13:39
|
|
|
Came to ask about Vallejo primers, looks like I picked the right day! Do they need to be thinned or do they come out okay as is? I have a cheapish Paasche that I'll be using for priming and probably base coats. My H&S should be here soon for the fancy stuff 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 14:00
|
|
|
A year or two ago, half the regular posters here were using gesso as primer. It works just fine, I can't really see why people are saying it's garbage. The only downside I can even think of is that it shrinks when it dries, so it will pull back off of the tips of pointy bits like spikes. If you do decide to switch to spray primer (it's so much quicker, for one thing) keep your gesso like Lethemonster says. You can use it to prime scenery and bases, or hit parts of your models that you might miss with spray primer if you don't want to go back outside.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 14:01
|
|
|
Digital Jesus posted:Came to ask about Vallejo primers, looks like I picked the right day! It needs no thinning in my coarse or fine airbrush. It has a nice nozzle and I use it straight from the bottle. It self levels well if you spray too thick and can be brushed on for touchups. Get the 200ml and it will last forever
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 14:33
|
|
|
Aranan posted:A year or two ago, half the regular posters here were using gesso as primer. It works just fine, I can't really see why people are saying it's garbage. The only downside I can even think of is that it shrinks when it dries, so it will pull back off of the tips of pointy bits like spikes. I use gesso most of the time, since I live in a tiny apartment with no space for spraying, and outside is too cold and/or wet and/or windy to spray 70% of the year. Gesso is ok, but I acknowledge that there are some disadvantages. It is more vulnerable to being rubbed off, especially on metal, even though this mostly matters before you have your first coat of paint. I also find it harder to cover my resin kits with gesso than with spray. In a perfect world where I had a ventilated indoor area for painting I'd probably get an airbrush and spray on primer. But I don't have that area, so gesso works for me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 14:37
|
|
|
Digital Jesus posted:Came to ask about Vallejo primers, looks like I picked the right day! No thinning required for airbrush or standard brushing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 15:12
|
|
|
I got an idea for using my under powered wood elf army as a count-as-Dark-Elves army and I want to use dryads as harpies. I need some wings for them though. Preferably something forest-spritey like butterfly or insect wings (or maybe even bat wings for that matter). I was thinking of getting Tyranid gargoyle wings, or maybe wings from the new Daemon plague drones, but they might be too big. Do you guys have other suggestions? vvv Dark elves =/= dark eldar 
Not a viking fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Feb 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 15:21
|
|
|
Not a viking posted:I got an idea for using my under powered wood elf army as a count-as-Dark-Elves army and I want to use dryads as harpies. To be fair, this idea sounds fantastic. You want to have boats as raiders. Modelling that may be a pain. You can have rings of toadstools as the warpgates. The DA fluff suits the more malevolent nature of some of the myths of fairy-folk.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 15:28
|
|
|
Not a viking posted:[Need wings] I used gargoyle wings for my count-as shrike in a night lords allied detachment. This might give you some scale?  They are very evil looking which might help you in your attempt to make them 'darker'. I definitely think the new Nurgle bug wings will be too big for a fantasy 20-25mm mini.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 15:29
|
|
will blow your mind.
|
OneTrueBru posted:Managed to jam an old 0/3 brush in behind the sergeant's icon and gave him his 3rd Company stripe: That's some box art poo poo right there. Looks gorgeous. The green armor looks amazing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 17:41
|
|
|
Swagger Dagger posted:I've used gesso more or less exclusively for years since there's no good place to spray in my apartment complex + it's super humid here, and it's fine. Anyone who's saying it's complete garbage is just being dogmatic about their chosen method of painting space mans. Or I used gesso and found it to be terrible and so recommend that others don't bother. Less dogma, more experimentation and observation. Indolent Bastard fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Feb 23, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 17:47
|
|
|
Why are the proportions on most of these so odd? Is it to keep them beneath a certain height?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 18:47
|
|
|
Dick Trauma posted:Why are the proportions on most of these so odd? Is it to keep them beneath a certain height? 40k proportions are notoriously odd, because they use a thing called "heroic scale". Basically, it's to make the silhouette more recognizable, and so you can tell what something is at a glance.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 18:50
|
|
|
Regarding Vallejo airbrush primer, the grey and white spray through my airbrush right out of the bottle, but the black wont for whatever reason and I need to thin it a bit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
I was going to wait until I finished everything but I was too excited to be so close. I've been getting into 15mm and building terrain. I started off by making some desert style dwellings using foam board and textured spray paint. Then I went into wood works with coffee stirrers. I tried to make everything fairly interchangeable and modular. I also got some really cheap aquarium plants to make some foliage. The fungoids and hazmat guys are from khurasan, and they still need some base work. The cowboys are blue moon and also need the bases finished and some touch ups. Anyway I am trying to get it all done in time for cold wars this year so if anyone is going you might see these in action.     
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 19:16
|
|
|
I picked up my first GW model in years just because I loved the model and I also love the question that seemed to have driven the design process of...can a tank have TOO many guns? I've only assembled, primed and laid the base coats but thought I would share some progress.     
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 20:39
|
|
|
Torabi posted:That's some box art poo poo right there. Looks gorgeous. The green armor looks amazing. Thanks! They're a bit less neat in reality, unfortunately. I have to borrow an iPad to photograph anything and it's not exactly the greatest at capturing small details. Which honestly works to my advantage.  The green armour is just Heavy Blackgreen with a bit of black plopped in for the basecoat/shading, and some Escorpena Green for the highlighting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 21:50
|
|
|
Ok, so I know I'm going to need an air compressor to use an airbrush. What am I really actually going to be wanting to buy if I get into airbrushes though? Like for brush painting, paints aside, I have brushes, palettes, a water pot, brush cleaner, etc.. Beyond airbrush and compressor, what am I going to end up buying? I need to figure out a total cost in terms of dollars but also in terms of space for this poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 22:08
|
|
|
If you are painting inside and not like, in a garage you should look into a spray booth. You can get one for 60ish bucks on amazon, its basically a booth with a fan and an exhaust hose you stick out the window. Also the little iwata "cleaning station" is nice because its also a stand to hold the airbrush. That's a thing you don't realize you need until you have paint in the airbrush and need to put it down for a sec to use both hands and realize you have nowhere to put it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 22:29
|
|
|
Dominion posted:If you are painting inside and not like, in a garage you should look into a spray booth. You can get one for 60ish bucks on amazon, its basically a booth with a fan and an exhaust hose you stick out the window. Lol just lol if you havent held the airbrush with your teeth (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:38 |
|
|
Red Shoe posted:I would absolutely use the scheme on the knight for some Cryx. May I ask your recipe for the armor plates and trim? It's gw's new bronze paints, Balthasar Gold Gehenna's Gold Auric Armour Gold One more layer with a little runefang steel added to the auric armour, and shaded with agrax earthshade and a little bit of leviathan purple in the darker parts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 22:41
|
|