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Gyges posted:I really want to believe that it was all part of the plan, and not happenstance, that puppet Yoda's advice to Luke is reasonably in conflict with CGI Yoda. Part of the plan, happenstance, it checks out either way.
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Feb 24, 2013 02:31
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One of the neat things I like about the prequels is that it shows the Yoda in the OT to be a complete and utter failure and training Luke becomes his redemption. Still, I would prefer that Yoda's characterisation in the prequels was done properly. When I think of Yoda I think of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLqeILU5fmU Not this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viL_jnEBjc0
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Feb 24, 2013 03:17
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I prefer to think of Yoda as a goofy swamp-dwelling prankster gremlin, not as THE WISEST OF THE JEDI COUNCIL OF THE BEAUTIFUL SKY METROPOLIS OF CORINTH!! or wherever the gently caress the galaxy senate was.
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Feb 24, 2013 03:21
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Gyges posted:I really want to believe that it was all part of the plan, and not happenstance, that puppet Yoda's advice to Luke is reasonably in conflict with CGI Yoda. ...but that actually makes sense, though. Puppet Yoda realizes that CGI Yoda hosed up bad and advises Luke to not do that, because he knows from experience that it'll go badly.
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Feb 24, 2013 03:29
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scary ghost dog posted:I prefer to think of Yoda as a goofy swamp-dwelling prankster gremlin, not as THE WISEST OF THE JEDI COUNCIL OF THE BEAUTIFUL SKY METROPOLIS OF CORINTH!! or wherever the gently caress the galaxy senate was. Also as a creature shriveled and shrunken with age rather than belonging to race that just always looks like that.
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Feb 24, 2013 03:37
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Also as a creature shriveled and shrunken with age rather than belonging to race that just always looks like that. 850 isn't that far off from 900 years.
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Feb 24, 2013 03:56
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scary ghost dog posted:I prefer to think of Yoda as a goofy swamp-dwelling prankster gremlin, not as THE WISEST OF THE JEDI COUNCIL OF THE BEAUTIFUL SKY METROPOLIS OF CORINTH!! or wherever the gently caress the galaxy senate was. The films might actually agree with this. They portray the Council as becoming increasingly out of touch with the force and blind to things, while Qui-Gon (who's main trait is disagreeing with the Council) learns how to become one with the force and speak from beyond the grave. His very first line in Phantom Menace is actually about this, as are Yoda's last words in Revenge, it's just overshadowed by stuff like hundreds of Jedi fighting dinosaurs and robot armies. It could have been conveyed a lot better, but I think the general point is that the Jedi, while unquestionably the good guys, aren't quite "doing it right", and partly because they've stagnated for so long with no Sith to balance them.
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Feb 24, 2013 04:39
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computer parts posted:850 isn't that far off from 900 years. In the prequels, there is another... 
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Feb 24, 2013 04:39
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Darko posted:In the prequels, there is another... So when they go bald they also lose their second forehead? That's a lot of cranium to lose. Edit: And of course this character that I don't even remember seeing has a 5,000 word entry on Wookieepedia.
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Feb 24, 2013 04:53
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Darko posted:In the prequels, there is another... She's also supposed to be like 500, and that looks decent for a middle aged...whatever (not in the Gonzo sense).
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Feb 24, 2013 05:01
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Perhaps Episode 7 will finally tell us what race they are.
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Feb 24, 2013 05:12
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Joe Don Baker posted:Perhaps Episode 7 will finally tell us what race they are. Does it matter?
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Feb 24, 2013 05:17
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The identity of Yoda is central to the narrative of Ep 7. It's revealed at the end he's a midichlorian engorged by exposure to trade blockades.
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Feb 24, 2013 05:19
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Spaceman Future! posted:Does it matter? There's a lot of fan fiction yet to be written that requires this information.
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Feb 24, 2013 05:19
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Spaceman Future! posted:Does it matter? Don't worry, it'll be written on a hologram in the background and you'll have to stop the film at the precise frame, which will then have to be blown up 300% to make it barely legible. No sane person will notice it, but by the time you get home from the first matinee showing it will have a 10,000 word entry on Wookieepedia and be hyperlinked to in every Wookieepedia page that in anyway even hints at mentioning Yoda.
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Feb 24, 2013 06:08
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Wank posted:One of the neat things I like about the prequels is that it shows the Yoda in the OT to be a complete and utter failure and training Luke becomes his redemption. Still, I would prefer that Yoda's characterisation in the prequels was done properly. Disturbingly, this has become the dominant portrayal of Yoda in my mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1iTwTdHx7I&feature=youtu.be&t=4m13s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1iTwTdHx7I&feature=youtu.be&t=5m55s
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Feb 24, 2013 07:02
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Gyges posted:I really want to believe that it was all part of the plan, and not happenstance, that puppet Yoda's advice to Luke is reasonably in conflict with CGI Yoda. Who the man? Yoda man.
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Feb 24, 2013 07:32
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Yoda man? Yoda da man.
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Feb 24, 2013 08:13
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Stupid Star Wars Commericials are one of my favorite things. YODA MAN! YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THE CELEBRATION, QUI-GON! I hope Disney keeps up that trend.
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Feb 24, 2013 08:41
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So, uh, a KOTOR movie could be happening..
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Feb 24, 2013 16:29
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It would be quite confusing for the mainstream audience to have KOTOR films happening between Ep. 7-9. Two different timelines "at the same time" is hard to explain to the average not-scifi guy that's bringin in the big bucks at the box office.
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Feb 24, 2013 18:39
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Maybe episode 7 is about time travel.
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Feb 24, 2013 18:58
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Speaking of Yoda, where did the "Jedi Masters don't use lightsabers", with corresponding nerd rage, come from? I liked Yoda fighting. (Unrelated, what's the domain of this thread versus the big SW thread in the Book Barn?)
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Feb 24, 2013 19:11
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MisterBibs posted:Speaking of Yoda, where did the "Jedi Masters don't use lightsabers", with corresponding nerd rage, come from? Yoda fighting is terrible. It's "nerds" and "Star Wars fans" that liked him having one; it was more like film fans in general that stated it was missing the point (from what I remember of theforce.net's arguments after Episode 2). The point of Yoda/Palpatine was that they are so far beyond a Jedi Knight in usage of the Force that something as piddly as using a lightsaber is pointless to them. While Obi Wan trained Luke in using a saber, super wise Master Yoda trained him completely without one, and actually TOLD him to leave his weapons behind for a scene (which imprints the thought that reliance on weapons is weaksauce). Then Yoda relatively casually lifts an entire X-Wing out with one hand. The Emperor grabs Luke's lightsaber like it's a silly toy and remarks on it being like a tool of someone beneath him. The whole Yoda/Emperor idea is drawn from things like Eastern martial arts films in which the wise old masters put for NO effort at all to defeat people. In Drunken Master 1, for instance, Jackie Chan's old master beats him effortlessly barely moving (and Yoda's appearance is very much like an old master from Snake in Eagle's Shadow or Drunken Master). To have the old sage fighting like he's on speed defeats the entire point - that he has mastered beyond all that. Or, in RPG terms, you don't give a sage a sword.
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Feb 24, 2013 19:32
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Darko posted:Yoda fighting is terrible. It's "nerds" and "Star Wars fans" that liked him having one; it was more like film fans in general that stated it was missing the point See, that's the thing. The point of the scene was that Yoda is an old Jedi Master, but can still kick rear end with a lightsaber, in counter to the notion that Jedi Masters didn't use them. Which leads to my original question: why did people think that in the first place? (from what I remember of theforce.net's arguments after Episode 2). Darko posted:The point of Yoda/Palpatine was that they are so far beyond a Jedi Knight in usage of the Force that something as piddly as using a lightsaber is pointless to them. Where did you get that concept? You never heard either of those two characters expressing dismissal of lightsabers. Darko posted:The Emperor grabs Luke's lightsaber like it's a silly toy and remarks on it being like a tool of someone beneath him. Quote? I don't remember such a line. Darko posted:Or, in RPG terms, you don't give a sage a sword. You give a sword to a Master of a Knightly order, though, which is what Yoda is.
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Feb 24, 2013 19:57
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The Emperor describes the lightsaber dismissively as a Jedi's weapon, and the point behind Vader using a lightsaber is that he's a corrupted Jedi that kept some of their mementos.
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Feb 24, 2013 19:59
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MisterBibs posted:Quote? I don't remember such a line. The whole scene is Palpatine taunting Luke by placing this deadly weapon of the Jedi right there on his armrest like it's nothing and daring him to try to strike him down. As for everything else, Yoda's entire character was constructed in the OT to dissuade you from the notion that Jedi Masters are warriors. Luke calls him a 'great warrior' and is instantly rebuked, Yoda tells him to leave his weapons behind, he's a short little green guy who couldn't possibly be any use in a fight. And then he casually lifts the X-Wing out of the swamp with a gesture. Yoda is the first person in all the films to tell us and Luke (right when he's at the formative point of hi characer arch) what the force is all about, and his scenes go out of their way to point out that it's about learning inner peace and Space Buddhism, not waving a laser sword around.
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Feb 24, 2013 20:06
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Also RLM (again) brought up that having the lightsaber as the weapon for EVERY alien doesn't really make that much sense and goes against the idea of force users being equal regardless of race. Yoda has to exert himself a lot more against a large opponent to reach them, among other problems (alien with a long skinny neck, alien with floppy tentacles on head that could easily hit the saber). Plus it's a dumb scene, just like the rest of the spinny flippy flippy spinny fighting.
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Feb 24, 2013 20:19
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Yoda and the Emperor were so badass they no longer needed puny weapons. This was reinforced by the fact the Emperor shot mutherfucking lightning out of his finger tips on a whim which lead people to believe Yoda was a similar sort of badass yet he never had the need to show it. The needless prequel cgi Yoda stupid lightsaber poo poo was just terrible, but then again like all things Star Wars, you can shorten that sentence to "the needless prequels were terrible."
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Feb 24, 2013 20:30
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Seems similar to how the later movies took isolated-but-iconic elements from the earlier movies and multiplied them... all the younglings training with the same improvised junk Luke trained with on the Millennium Falcon, all the Jedi wearing Obi Wan's moisture farmer disguise (though this one started when they showed Anakin's ghost in ROTJ, right?)
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Feb 24, 2013 20:32
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Ave Azaria posted:Seems similar to how the later movies took isolated-but-iconic elements from the earlier movies and multiplied them... all the younglings training with the same improvised junk Luke trained with on the Millennium Falcon, all the Jedi wearing Obi Wan's moisture farmer disguise (though this one started when they showed Anakin's ghost in ROTJ, right?) Yes, but the Jedi being warrior monks is a consistent theme so it's not egregiously bad.
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Feb 24, 2013 21:29
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Alchenar posted:The whole scene is Palpatine taunting Luke by placing this deadly weapon of the Jedi right there on his armrest like it's nothing and daring him to try to strike him down. Yes, because a lightsaber is a lethal Jedi weapon, and striking him (an allegedly defenseless man) down with it brings him to the Dark Side. Alchenar posted:As for everything else, Yoda's entire character was constructed in the OT to dissuade you from the notion that Jedi Masters are warriors. Luke calls him a 'great warrior' and is instantly rebuked, Yoda tells him to leave his weapons behind, he's a short little green guy who couldn't possibly be any use in a fight. So you're saying that the people who take issue with fighting are using the same faulty logic that Luke has about what Yoda is? Luke baselessly assumes the little green guy in front of him isn't Yoda, and is proved wrong. People baselessly assumes a Jedi Master can't/don't fight, and are proven wrong. People baselessly assume that the Emperor Of The Sith can't/doesn't either, and are proven wrong. Hmm. I can buy that.
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Feb 24, 2013 21:34
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MisterBibs: Tone establishment by implication. You also probably don't have a problem with Dooku one-handedly using force lightning and Obi-Wan deflecting it with a lightsaber, either, right? All of these things are because Lucas saw the OT pretty much like you did (which is why the PT fails so horribly in the details). He doesn't understand undercurrent, theme, visual storytelling and establishing character mood/development/feel via what the DON'T do. He just understands exposition (which is why he's a decent base story man). edit: I mean, gently caress, "Yoda jumps around with a lightsaber" is the exact same issue as "Han shoots first." Lucas just plain doesn't understand how character actions influence perception of characters, or why some characters have a certain strength about themselves. Darko fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 24, 2013 21:44
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MisterBibs posted:Yes, because a lightsaber is a lethal Jedi weapon, and striking him (an allegedly defenseless man) down with it brings him to the Dark Side. Here is where I point out to the other people reading this thread that this is someone who thinks that the Emperor's plan was to get killed by Luke so that Luke would fall to the dark side. You have no grasp of subtlety whatsoever.
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Feb 24, 2013 22:05
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Yoda being a skilled fighter in the prequels is consistent with the interpretation that Yoda was basically wrong all the time in the prequels, and only attained enlightenment during his exile. Dooku using Force Lightning, as well as Palpatine fighting with a lightsaber, are dumb (unless paratext is invoked).
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Feb 24, 2013 22:20
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Darko posted:You also probably don't have a problem with Dooku one-handedly using force lightning and Obi-Wan deflecting it with a lightsaber, either, right? Was I supposed to? Alchenar posted:Here is where I point out to the other people reading this thread that this is someone who thinks that the Emperor's plan was to get killed by Luke so that Luke would fall to the dark side. Technically, its more along the lines of the Emperor trying to replace Vader with Luke. The Emperor goads Luke into using his weapon on someone who appears to be defenseless. Except he's not defenseless: he has Vader, force lightning, and prolly a lightsaber underneath the robes. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Feb 24, 2013 |
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Feb 24, 2013 22:43
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MisterBibs posted:Was I supposed to? No, but the idea of turning the ultimate display of Dark side power into something that a lightsaber can deflect is a great example of tension deflating.
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Feb 24, 2013 22:46
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MisterBibs posted:Technically, its more along the lines of the Emperor trying to replace Vader with Luke. The Emperor goads Luke into using his weapon on someone who appears to be defenseless. Except he's not defenseless: he has Vader, force lightning, and prolly a lightsaber underneath the robes. Everyone knows this.
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Feb 24, 2013 22:51
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Surely Yoda going from using a lightsaber in the prequels to not using one and relying purely on the force fits with that idea that people were discussing earlier about prequel Yoda being much less wise than he thinks he is? He becomes the wise sage of the swamp because he realises that just trying to stab dudes with a laser sword isn't really the way to do things.
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Feb 24, 2013 23:25
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I always thought the point of Yoda being 900 years old was that he carried an unfathomable amount of wisdom with him. Not that he spent hundreds of years being kind of a dink up until the last couple decades. Again, it's taking a simple story cue that conveyed a simple message effectively, and weakening it with over-complication.
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Feb 24, 2013 23:35
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