|
I, unfortunately, end up getting bugged by those kinds of little world-building detail. They get lodged in my head and block my creativity with their insipid nagging until I go look something up to see if it actually does make sense. It's frustrating. Erogenous Beef posted:The real question is, if you need a world that's very realistic and earthlike, then why not just use Earth? There's a ton of bizarre stuff in our backyards, and you get the benefit of real local history and mythology to draw upon, which is often weirder than anything made-up. Your clam-field example could be based off of a Japanese pearl-diving village, or it could be based off a maritime city like Boston or Halifax. What does the story require? That's a good question. I'm working on a story set on not-earth, and I did think about if I could set it on earth. It would be set on a volcanic island nation in the middle of an ocean between two powerful and hostile countries, like say, Hawaii. Could I have used Hawaii? No, I would have had to write up far too much alternate history to get the Earth history to match up with what I need that it wouldn't be any kind of time-saver at all. If I say, used Japan and the United States as the countries fighting over Hawaii, that introduces cultural prejudice into the mix. Western readers will naturally have an ingrained notion of them being "the good guys" and Japan the bad guys (especially given Hawaii's current status as a U.S. state). That is not what I want. If there are no real-world politics or national allegiances that the readers have to overcome, they'll more easily accept two equally bad countries. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 26, 2013 |
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 18:19 |
|
|
I try not to get too caught up in researching obtuse things that aren't even important in the slightest to the overall story, but sometimes I will get caught up looking for some specific bit of information. For example, I spent about five minutes looking up the name of the hat that naval captains wear. It actually has several different names, though generally it's called a peaked hat or combination hat. You can thank me later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:16
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:That's a good question. I'm working on a story set on not-earth, and I did think about if I could set it on earth. It would be set on a volcanic island nation in the middle of an ocean between two powerful and hostile countries, like say, Hawaii. Could I have used Hawaii? No, I would have had to write up far too much alternate history to get the Earth history to match up with what I need that it wouldn't be any kind of time-saver at all. In that specific case, perhaps you're not casting your net wide enough, although I can't say without actually knowing the details. Sicily is a volcanic island nation that has traditionally been torn between major contemporary powers: Greece/Rome, Rome/Carthage, the Byzantines/Umayyad Caliphate/Normans just to start. Granted, it's not in an ocean. There's also the Aleutian islands, which were traded between the US and Russia, although that brings around your noted problem with contemporary attitudes. If you just can't get history to match up with your message, then by all means write an alternate or entirely fictional history. I like using obscure pieces of real history to shape the made-up elements. You can find some weird poo poo out there, and it can give you some delicious flavoring details to sprinkle into your narrative, if you have the wordcount.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:54
|
|
|
I'm really not getting this "you want to write fantasy but irl earth is FANTASTIC so just write historical fiction" thing. If that works for you, fine, but some people just like to write fantasy. In that case trying to force the setting to be Earth is not gonna work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 19:03
|
|
|
Erogenous Beef posted:The real question is, if you need a world that's very realistic and earthlike, then why not just use Earth? There's a ton of bizarre stuff in our backyards, and you get the benefit of real local history and mythology to draw upon, which is often weirder than anything made-up. Your clam-field example could be based off of a Japanese pearl-diving village, or it could be based off a maritime city like Boston or Halifax. What does the story require? This was a very helpful post overall, but to answer this question, I don't like the baggage that comes with writing fantasy on earth. The geography got more important as I wrote more about the culture my main character comes from, since geographical isolation contributes both to their culture and the main conflict. They live by the sea because I wanted people who worshipped a sea goddess/the tides/etc. I'm basing the region very very loosely on the area around Naples, and what would be Itally is an isthmus that bisects a large inland sea (and due to reasons, large empires and trade hubs never flourished there). A good deal of the story revolves around the character learning how different the rest of the world is, and part of that is being isolated by the sea and mountains both north and south of the isthmus. I'm working on two "big" stories right now, one of which is whimsical and a bit absurd. This one is more serious. I find I do less info-dumping in my story if I as the writer have a detailed understanding of the world I built. I guess it's because if I know why things are the way they are, it's easier to write those things as if they are second nature to the characters. Thanks for all the very helpful answers though, I enjoy reading about how other people world build.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 19:56
|
|
|
Sitting Here posted:This was a very helpful post overall, but to answer this question, I don't like the baggage that comes with writing fantasy on earth. The geography got more important as I wrote more about the culture my main character comes from, since geographical isolation contributes both to their culture and the main conflict. They live by the sea because I wanted people who worshipped a sea goddess/the tides/etc. If you have the time, I suggest checking out some nonfiction books on social evolution. Robert Wright's Nonzero and Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs & Steel (and Collapse, if you have even more time) were good food for thought when I was working on my world's fictional history, even if those books' real-world scientific cred is disputed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:42
|
|
|
theworstname posted:I only world-build as much as necessary for a story, otherwise a lot of time gets wasted on stuff that isn't relevant. The same applies to research. Just ask yourself how much you care about that person's opinions.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:47
|
|
|
Sitting Here posted:I'm working on two "big" stories right now, one of which is whimsical and a bit absurd. This one is more serious. I find I do less info-dumping in my story if I as the writer have a detailed understanding of the world I built. I guess it's because if I know why things are the way they are, it's easier to write those things as if they are second nature to the characters. DOES ONE OF THEM INVOLVE SEBASTIAN THE TALKING PIG IF NOT WHY NOT
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:49
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:DOES ONE OF THEM INVOLVE SEBASTIAN THE TALKING PIG Yep, that would be the whimsical one. I just have this need to torment myself with spergy world building after spending a bunch of time writing the dialog and characterization of a talking pig who rides around on a sea ship that goes in space (but it's not really space, it's like, this whole other thing [Plus there's air there {or maybe they just don't breathe, IDK}]). Thanks for the thought food, Beef. Sitting Here fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 01:31
|
|
|
Sitting Here posted:Yep, that would be the whimsical one. I just have this need to torment myself with spergy world building after spending a bunch of time writing the dialog and characterization of a talking pig who rides around on a sea ship that goes in space (but it's not really space, it's like, this whole other thing [Plus there's air there {or maybe they just don't breath, IDK}]). Yay! Have you read Gene Wolfe's Urth of the New Sun? It's not a great book (and marks the point after which I stopped liking his stuff) but it has one hell of a void schooner or w/e the heck you want to call it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 01:52
|
|
|
Sitting Here posted:(but it's not really space, it's like, this whole other thing [Plus there's air there {or maybe they just don't breath, IDK}]) I try not to breath either, I find it more effective to breathe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 13:00
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:Yay! Have you read Gene Wolfe's Urth of the New Sun? It's not a great book (and marks the point after which I stopped liking his stuff) but it has one hell of a void schooner or w/e the heck you want to call it. No, Gene Wolfe is one of those names in Fantasy/Scifi that I hear so often that I never actually get around to reading his stuff. It's like the Beatles, of course I "liked" the Beatles, but I never got around to giving them a proper listen until recently because they're so ubiquitous. Both Sebastian and the spaceboat come from a dream I had when I was like 13. It stuck in my brain for more than ten years so I figure it's time to give the little guy his shot at being a big fiction star. Martello posted:I try not to breath either, I find it more effective to breathe. I have no idea what you're talking about there was no typo there. Go look. You clearly edited the quote to smear my world-renowned spelling. Another question, what do you think about linking two sentence clauses with a comma instead of and, where and would link two actions? I'm sure there is a better way to articulate this but my grammar sucks. An example would be something like "He looked up at the sky, watched the clouds morph into giant dongs." Now, my understanding is that that sentence should have an and instead of a comma, but I see authors do this constantly and I like it a lot better than just a plain ol' and. What do you guys think?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2013 18:31
|
|
|
Sitting Here posted:Both Sebastian and the spaceboat come from a dream I had when I was like 13. It stuck in my brain for more than ten years so I figure it's time to give the little guy his shot at being a big fiction star. Where is this Sebastian the Talking Pig story? Did you post it in Thunderdome and I missed it? I wanna read it.  Sitting Here posted:I have no idea what you're talking about there was no typo there. Go look. You clearly edited the quote to smear my world-renowned spelling. Sitting Here posted:Sitting Here hosed around with this message at Feb 28, 2013 around 12:03 Sitting Here posted:Another question, what do you think about linking two sentence clauses with a comma instead of and, where and would link two actions? I'm sure there is a better way to articulate this but my grammar sucks. It's called comma-splicing and the Bohner hates it. I love them but since he sees a lot of my stuff I usually reluctantly cut 'em. He can elaborate on why they're so awful, or conversely why he's such an awful person.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2013 18:47
|
|
|
Martello posted:Where is this Sebastian the Talking Pig story? Did you post it in Thunderdome and I missed it? I wanna read it. It was my Thunderdome action entry! From two weeks ago, I think? I was just playing around with the characters/setting. I'll be posting more work from that story in the Farm here in a short bit, I think. Martello posted:It's called comma-splicing and the Bohner hates it. I love them but since he sees a lot of my stuff I usually reluctantly cut 'em. He can elaborate on why they're so awful, or conversely why he's such an awful person. Ah I knew it was called something. Bohner hates them? Even better. I'm doubling my comma splice quota for my next piece.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2013 19:12
|
|
|
I think comma splicing is great, especially when writing in first person or a deep third person limited, since that's how people think. Gotta go to the car, get my gun. rear end in a top hat thinks he can do me like that? We'll see. I'll whip his teeth out his mouth, make him hurt. Then spread his brains across the wall.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2013 19:24
|
|
|
Phil Moscowitz posted:I think comma splicing is great, especially when writing in first person or a deep third person limited, since that's how people think. Gotta go to the car, get my gun. rear end in a top hat thinks he can do me like that? We'll see. I'll whip his teeth out his mouth, make him hurt. Then spread his brains across the wall. That's how I tend to write. Screw conjunctions, what have they have done for me? Nothing. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2013 20:10
|
|
|
Comma splicing just feels so natural to me. It feels more stream-of-conscious and less clunkier than dropping in an and. Though I can imagine in would get annoying if you used a lot of them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2013 23:39
|
|
|
Sitting Here posted:It was my Thunderdome action entry! From two weeks ago, I think? I was just playing around with the characters/setting. I'll be posting more work from that story in the Farm here in a short bit, I think. Here it is
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2013 01:10
|
|
|
Martello posted:It's called comma-splicing and the Bohner hates it. I love them but since he sees a lot of my stuff I usually reluctantly cut 'em. He can elaborate on why they're so awful, or conversely why he's such an awful person. I like it as a a tool for varying rhythm, it gives a sentence more energy for when you want that. 'And' has a more deliberate feel. But like anything else it can be overused. Often you should just ditch the splice and split them up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2013 01:12
|
|
|
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but are there any literary journals worth subscribing to floating around? I know there is stuff like the New Yorker, but it's a bit pricey considering I don't really care about 3/4 of the content. If I am just interested in reading some good fiction, what's my best bet?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2013 18:48
|
|
|
There's the literary journal thread if you want to see different journals and any new ones; I think there's also a link to a journal review site in there as well (I'd link, but I'm on my phone). Also Poets & writers has a directoy of journals as well. As for personal recs, I love Tin House, and the Paris review (if only for the great interviews). If you want to find good journals, I've found it best to look in anthologies like the Best American short stories series, find the stories I like, and then look up the journals they were published in. As for the New Yorker, they sell a good amount of anthologies of their short stories if you don't want the journal itself. "20 under 40" has a ton of awesome stories, I'd highly recommend it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2013 19:29
|
|
|
Honey Badger posted:Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but are there any literary journals worth subscribing to floating around? I know there is stuff like the New Yorker, but it's a bit pricey considering I don't really care about 3/4 of the content. If I am just interested in reading some good fiction, what's my best bet? It really depends on what you like to read because they all have different flavors. Go to a bookstore & buy a stack of em. I like Paris Review, BOMB, A Public Space, Guernica (online), Granta, and n+1. Edit: or go here. yoyomama posted:I've found it best to look in anthologies like the Best American short stories series, find the stories I like, and then look up the journals they were published in. This is also a really good suggestion. Everyone who wants to be published should be doing this every time they read a short story they like, and not just in anthologies. dream owl fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Mar 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
I tried to do the Authentic, Painstakingly Constructed World, and it was only hindrance. I ended up with more notes than story by about 3:1.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2013 05:12
|
|
|
I'm trying to write a story right now set in the era of Imperialism. My premise is that a new rare element was discovered in Antarctica that can be incredibly useful. This leads to a colonization races for the continent, and eventually war was well (complete with cool weapons created because of said rare minerals). This is my first real attempt at writing something, so I had a couple of questions. -When it comes to using the idea of *new wonder element* how grounded in reality does it have to remain? My idea was that it somehow manages to amplify electrical charges. I realize this breaks with the fundamental principle of conservation of energy, but is that an acceptable break from reality? -When approaching an alternate history kind of story like this, is it better to start with a small micro focus that zeros in on characters and then branches out into a larger world, or should it start with a broad sense of the world, then focus on the characters?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2013 20:36
|
|
|
For all you guys who self-publish a lot of short stories, what do you do about the cover? Do you just go with some standard and simple or do you whip out the checkbook and get something custom made up? And do your readers even care?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2013 20:45
|
|
|
Jimmy4400nav posted:I'm trying to write a story right now set in the era of Imperialism. My premise is that a new rare element was discovered in Antarctica that can be incredibly useful. This leads to a colonization races for the continent, and eventually war was well (complete with cool weapons created because of said rare minerals). This is my first real attempt at writing something, so I had a couple of questions. Just sit down and write it out. Don't get up until you have a first draft, and don't spend any time researching or questioning things too much. If you don't even have an attempt to write a story, all you are doing by asking questions is spinning your wheels. It's like saying you have a cool idea for a picture, but this is your first time to try to draw something, so you want to know if you should use a pencil or crayon. Great Rumbler posted:For all you guys who self-publish a lot of short stories, what do you do about the cover? Do you just go with some standard and simple or do you whip out the checkbook and get something custom made up? And do your readers even care? There's a thread for just that question: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3400124
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
Then I shall ask it there!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2013 21:08
|
|
|
^^^ fakeedit yeah what Boner said.Jimmy4400nav posted:I'm trying to write a story right now set in the era of Imperialism. My premise is that a new rare element was discovered in Antarctica that can be incredibly useful. This leads to a colonization races for the continent, and eventually war was well (complete with cool weapons created because of said rare minerals). This is my first real attempt at writing something, so I had a couple of questions. If you look at fiction, you'll find that authors have made just about every sort of gimmick work. Most readers of genre fiction will be willing to suspend disbelief somewhat, so long as you give them reason to care about the story. Come back when you've written something and we will tell you how well it works. The merit of your ideas will become self evident once you actually have something for people to read.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
All writing questions and answers: Can I do X? Yes, if it works when you do it. How much X do I need to do? As much X as it takes to work when you do it. Is X a good idea? Yes, if it works when you do it. ----------------------------- Re: Clams In an imaginary world, clams can literally live anywhere, because it's a made-up world. Even if the climate is "Mediterranean" and clams don't really live in the Mediterranean here on earth, clams can live in that climate in your world because it is fake and maybe clams evolved to be adapted to that climate, or to be able to read or ride horses. Maybe clams are actually a huge computer, communicating through binary opened/closed patterns. It doesn't matter because it's a goddamned made-up world. A lot of people really love world building, and that is great. But it can also be a huge time suck, and a distraction from the hard work of actually writing your story. While a detailed world can enhance a good story, it isn't itself a good story. Don't slack on the story in the name of world building. As long as it's fairly internally consistent, you're good to go (gently caress that one reader who triangulates mountains or whatever.) ----------------------------- Confession: I just roughed out my Thunderdome entry and I used "rejoined" as a speech tag 5 times in 900 words.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2013 04:45
|
|
|
Great Horny Toads! posted:I tried to do the Authentic, Painstakingly Constructed World, and it was only hindrance. I ended up with more notes than story by about 3:1. I don't think that ratio is uncommon or undesirable, at least not when you're serious about worldbuilding.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 04:00
|
|
|
Either work really hard on your world-building or don't. It doesn't matter. It's your story, write it or don't.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 18:53
|
|
|
Does anyone have experience/knowledge about open readings by editors? I've been writing for a while, but this year will the the first time I plan to get down to some serious submitting, and I have a lot to learn. I'm more familiar with general submission guidelines for publications, but an editor whose work I enjoy is currently putting together an anthology, and while she usually solicits short fiction from a list of experienced authors she's also (unusually) providing a month-long "open reading" period later this year. How would this be different from regular submissions, and what would that entail? Edit: Found out! Crisco Kid fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Mar 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 19:27
|
|
|
Martello posted:Either work really hard on your world-building or don't. It doesn't matter. It's your story, write it or don't. Not sure what you're saying. Now that I think of it, though, it was a hindrance because I was hoarding information. As I revised the story, I piled new notes on top of the old ones. Then, down the road, I would just loving forget which one was which. It became like reading through every possible sequence of a big choose-you-own-adventure. So, I just tossed the whole, burdensome works out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
Great Horny Toads! posted:Not sure what you're saying. Everyone's always sperging on poo poo like "Well I spent approximately 80% of my typing time on just world-building am I doing it wrong  " or like "But clearly you just need to write a story and not worry about SPERGS who want to read stories set in well-realized worlds  " when none of that poo poo really matters as long as you can write a good story. Different people write in different ways. I can spend an entire week world-building; adding to my character timelines and information sheets (yup I have these), figuring out how events work on my global timeline, doing write-ups for cyberpunk tech weapons and locations, and so on and spergy on. Or I can spend a whole week just banging out 1500-7000 word stories in a matter of hours every day. It depends on how I feel and what media I've been consuming and how much I feel like playing Black Ops II or Shogun 2 or whatever instead of writing. Write it how it works for you. Keeping track of how much time you spend on whichever part of your writing process isn't going to help anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 21:15
|
|
|
I can't decide what's more depressing- getting a rejection almost immediately or getting a rejection where you know you didn't even make the top 25 in a contest. I think I'm out of my jealousy/hate submitting phase. I'm getting to desperation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2013 18:46
|
|
|
Molly Bloom posted:I can't decide what's more depressing- getting a rejection almost immediately or getting a rejection where you know you didn't even make the top 25 in a contest. I never really get down about rejections (after all, even the most awesome story ever isn't going to be right for every market at every time) but I submitted to one of the Glimmer Train contests for the first time and it is a little disappointing when they send you both the runners-up and the honorable mentions ("hey, here's like 100 stories that also didn't win but were still better than yours! Peace!) 
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
I love it when I forget that I've even submitted anything and get a reminder in the form of a rejection. Martello posted:
Hmmmm sometimes I find it helpful to hear how other people manage their time, especially people whose writing I like. One thing I've noticed is that many people I talk to through CC have an impressive repository of worldy knowledge, or a lot of knowledge in one particular area, and it shows in their writing. Makes it feel fleshed out and real. For whatever reason I am an idiot, and can't write even the most banal of slice-of-life sequences without looking up some piece of information or another, and usually I find out that it's common knowledge. You say 'write how it works for you,' but the reason that I posted in the first place is because I feel stuck and how I write is NOT working for me. So maybe a better way to phrase my original question would be to ask if anyone has any clever tips or tricks to cover up your own glaring lack of trivial knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2013 01:26
|
|
|
So after spending a bunch of time merely thinking and reading about writing, I finally worked up the courage to actually write my first sentence of my first draft of my first story ever . It's both scary and exciting because on the one hand I know that I have a lot of work to do before I write anything good (or even complete), but on the other hand I can only improve from here (if you consider any writing better than no writing).
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2013 02:24
|
|
|
SpaceGodzilla posted:So after spending a bunch of time merely thinking and reading about writing, I finally worked up the courage to actually write my first sentence of my first draft of my first story ever Any writing is way better than no writing. Keep it going.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2013 04:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 18:19 |
|
|
This thread's getting a bit anemic. So how about a debate: Inciting incident-- should it go at the beginning of a novel or later on, after there's been time to get to know the setting/characters a bit? I'm arguing with an editor right now about this; she's telling me that most stories should open with an inciting incident. But I really think only works for poo poo like detective stories or similar boring procedural crap. If you put your protagonist in danger right out the gate, the reader won't be that invested if anything actually happens to him/her, right? Hell, it's hard for me to think of any stories offhand that straight-up open with the inciting incident, and the few times I've seen it just turn me off because it's "conflict" with no real stakes-- seeing as how I haven't read enough to care yet. Thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 16:27
|
|
