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at least Mongo sounded genuine some of the time.
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Mar 5, 2013 17:51
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SteelAngel2000 posted:Was it Russo's idea to have Sting and Vampiro fight in the "human torch" match? I hated that. I watched that thinking 'so, WCW wants to be like the WWF'. Which was loving stupid from whatever way you look at it. Marketing wise, it's the worse form of rebradning, by copying the competition. And fans didn't want that, all we wanted was cruiserweights, Jericho, DDP... Not torch matches and DJ Ran.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:04
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Rad R. posted:I hated that. I watched that thinking 'so, WCW wants to be like the WWF'. Which was loving stupid from whatever way you look at it. Marketing wise, it's the worse form of rebradning, by copying the competition. And fans didn't want that, all we wanted was cruiserweights, Jericho, DDP... Not torch matches and DJ Ran. I remember watching that match on PPV, and having it just be such a scary sight within about a year of Owen's death... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKAHNMY4b1U&t=120s DreamingApe posted:Did DDP revealing himself to be la Parka ever do anything? I do remember that happening, but not what came after. It was in 1997 when he was feuding with Savage. He randomly hits the Diamond Cutter in the match against Savage dressed as La Parka, then got the pinfall and revealed that it was DDP all along. Astro7x fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 21:25
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Astro7x posted:I remember watching that match on PPV, and having it just be such a scary sight within about a year of Owen's death... Even better was Slamboree 2000 which was held at the Kemper Arena almost a year to the day after Owen's death. Kanyon was thrown off the three-tiered cage to the floor at the end of the show and the commentators acted as though he could be dead, complete with a "Wrestling may be fake, but this is real folks" tone.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:05
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Vince Russo is such a piece of poo poo. EDIT: Was he still on the payroll of WCW at that point, though? I can't remember.
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Mar 6, 2013 03:18
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Shiki Dan posted:Vince Russo is such a piece of poo poo. Yes, that was the second PPV of his second run.
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Mar 6, 2013 03:40
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Even better was Slamboree 2000 which was held at the Kemper Arena almost a year to the day after Owen's death. Kanyon was thrown off the three-tiered cage to the floor at the end of the show and the commentators acted as though he could be dead, complete with a "Wrestling may be fake, but this is real folks" tone. I agree it was loving tasteless by Russo because you know in his brain he was believing that dot connecting would lead to ratings but people bitching about commentator tone is just silly to me. As if there's a tone that means the same thing as a referee doing the X signal.
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Mar 6, 2013 08:43
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quote:DM: It doesn't matter if the move name is consistent with the same move elsewhere in the world or the correct Japanese application. The Japanese technically confuse vertical suplex and brainbuster, which they use interchangeably although they are different moves. They, like the American announcers, all pronounce suplex as it is spelled but the correct pronunciation of the word is the pronunciation "su-play" that Gordon Solie, Bill Watts and almost nobody else used as it was a French term for an amateur wrestling throw and in amateur wrestling it is pronounced correctly. The Niagara Driver in Mexico is the splash mountain in Japan, but not the Niagara Driver in Japan. What does matter is when announcers don't even take the time to learn wrestlers signature moves and even finishing moves. Any move leading to either a teased (near) fall or teased (near) submission needs to be known and called by the announcer called and called consistently within the promotion by all announcers within the promotion the same name so the fans register and learn the move and are taught to pop for the significance of the move. If not, the most spectacular and dangerous move in some arenas will get the reaction of a resthold, and if that's the case, it's stupid for the wrestlers to risk their bodies for a move that isn't over with the audience they are playing to. Once educated to almost any move, no matter how pathetic or unrealistic, the audience will react to it. Witness how over moves like the claw used to be over years ago. Announcers who fail to call the significant moves or points that are key to the story of the match are shortchanging the wrestlers in the match and the match itself, not just showing their ignorance to fans who have kept up with an ever changing profession. If a move isn't called and given a consistent name, it will take longer for fans to learn and react to it as a tease for the ending of the match. When announcers are talking over near falls or not giving names to holds wrestlers are using for near falls or as spectacular and high-risk moves, for all the good it is doing the wrestlers in constructing the match, they might as well be holding restholds because in the story of the match, that's how it comes across to the fan at home. If a guy does a triple flip dive out of the ring and the announcers are talking about Hulk Hogan's next PPV match, to the fans at home, the move didn't register and wasn't exciting or a big deal because the announcers weren't even excited about it and didn't even bother to mention it. From the latest retro observer. Dave manages to predict two things which is pretty funny. edit: Context is that people were getting pretty  about move names especially how moves were called different things in Mexico and Japan so people were saying "This is X because it's called that in Japan", when the Japanese actually had it wrong. In addition, the WCW announcers weren't learning any of the move names.
algebra testes fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 11:52
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Dave posted:Any move leading to either a teased (near) fall or teased (near) submission needs to be known and called by the announcer called and called consistently within the promotion by all announcers within the promotion the same name so the fans register and learn the move Jesus christ Dave, what the gently caress is this poo poo? This man so needs an editor and quickly.
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Mar 6, 2013 13:16
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An Actual Bear posted:Jesus christ Dave, what the gently caress is this poo poo? This man so needs an editor and quickly. An editor and a time machine.
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Mar 6, 2013 13:47
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Mike Tenay was good at calling moves during cruiserweight matches wasn't he? That is, until the nWo became the dominant storyline.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:13
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Tenay was very good at calling moves and generally being a fount of trivia. Dude absolutely knew/knows his poo poo (at least by Wrestling Announcer standards) but is pretty much devoid of anything resembling charisma.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:59
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Q_res posted:Tenay was very good at calling moves and generally being a fount of trivia. Dude absolutely knew/knows his poo poo (at least by Wrestling Announcer standards) but is pretty much devoid of anything resembling charisma. He was good when he would just pipe in with triva and when it came to midcarters, but when he had to sell storylines or carry a match he was awful.
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Mar 6, 2013 22:01
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Tenay was basically Commentator-bot 2000. He was good at the technical stuff (Calling moves, talking about a wrestler's background etc) but nothing to do with actual emotion.
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Mar 6, 2013 22:12
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The other funny part was Dave saying that "even the Claw could get over."  Also, RVD said that WCW wanted him to be Glacier. I kinda... Kinda wish that would have happened. He's got the charisma to pull it off maybe.
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Mar 7, 2013 04:03
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LordPants posted:The other funny part was Dave saying that "even the Claw could get over." He totally would have pulled it off and that Karate Masters/Mortal Kombat/Blood Runs Cold thing would have suited him perfectly. They needed more characters to play off each other. Mortis is a Skull Man. Glacier is an Ice Man. Wrath is an... Evil Man. You need more Mega Man villain archetypes. RVD could have been Blaze Man to fight Glacier.
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Mar 7, 2013 04:07
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LordPants posted:The other funny part was Dave saying that "even the Claw could get over." Why didn't that happen?
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Mar 7, 2013 04:52
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:They needed more characters to play off each other. Mortis is a Skull Man. Glacier is an Ice Man. Wrath is an... Evil Man. You need more Mega Man villain archetypes. RVD could have been Blaze Man to fight Glacier. They really didn't fit with the rest of the WCW roster, but I loved those guys...
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Mar 7, 2013 05:47
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Astro7x posted:They really didn't fit with the rest of the WCW roster, but I loved those guys... Glacier is pretty much my favorite WCW guy ever, just because of how ridiculous his entire schtick was. RVD being Glacier would probably have meant I would have actually liked RVD.
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Mar 7, 2013 06:13
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thatguyclint posted:Why didn't that happen? He didn't want to be Glacier. RVD really doesn't give a gently caress which is something I really admire. Although, I wouldn't have quit All Japan, but it's possible he may not have gotten a main event push there (Well, I mean a Steve Williams / Stan Hansen push) edit: Then again, considering the abuse people in All Japan took. And the Japanese's views on the 'erb maybe leaving Japan was the right move at the time. algebra testes fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 06:42
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I think maybe if the whole Glacier/Mortis/Wrath stuff had been completely segregated from the roster and had more characters like PJD says, it would've been fine. Saturday Night always had that campy pseudo-futuristic set so it would have been perfect there.
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Mar 7, 2013 15:17
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LordPants posted:Also, RVD said that WCW wanted him to be Glacier. I'm assuming Van Dam probably wanted the freedom that working in ECW provided more than the money and non-push he'd get in WCW. He only went to the WWF/E when ECW finally folded. Also, Mortis was goddamn amazing, and I'm disappointed that it never surfaced on WWE TV.
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Mar 7, 2013 16:14
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Even better was Slamboree 2000 which was held at the Kemper Arena almost a year to the day after Owen's death. Kanyon was thrown off the three-tiered cage to the floor at the end of the show and the commentators acted as though he could be dead, complete with a "Wrestling may be fake, but this is real folks" tone. I thought it was a cool spot but given all the surrounding details, it was the worst time to do it. Until Vince Russo decided that Mike Awesome should do disco stuff or boff large ladies, WCW really had Mike Awesome slotted as the scary dangerous big man.
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Mar 7, 2013 16:37
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Assuming synctube works, http://www.synchtube.com/r/sunsweet at 8 PM for one of Hogan's biggest ego trips yet!
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Mar 8, 2013 00:57
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If you missed Nitro, Flair is a jobber and Hogan is awesome. Time for back issue quotes where you will also learn Flair is a jobber and Hogan is awesome. From the 1/6/96 Observer: quote:Six years later, Flair is champion again after a Starrcade that showed both how much and how little this business has changed. Hogan's still on top. Savage is still Hogan's understudy. Just like at Starrcade '89, Sting and Luger, when left to work with each other, can't get any heat and now that both are in their late 30s, nearly the age Flair was when people were saying he's too old and needs to retire, it turns out they were never the future for anyone. quote:Flair won what was billed as his record setting 12th world heavyweight title (at the very least the real number is 14) beating Savage due to interference and distractions from three wrestlers--Arn Anderson, Brian Pillman and Benoit, and one manager, Jimmy Hart, while a befuddled referee had to pretend to not be able to see what was right in front of his eyes and or hear ring noise or crowd noise. As matches go where American versions of a major world title changes hands, this was among the worst in recent years, with one of the worst finishes. quote:A. In a match that started at 6 p.m. (it was announced on television and in all ads that the show was beginning at 6:30 p.m. which pissed a lot of fans off), Diamond Dallas Page (Page Falkenberg) pinned Dave Sullivan (Bill Dannenhauser). * quote:After this came the presentation for WCW winning the World Cup. All the wrestlers in the previous match except Savage came out, with nobody explaining why Savage was there. Benoit was there and looked like he had no clue what he was supposed to be doing since he's a heel from Canada out there as part of Team America during an American flag waving ceremony. quote:Then, after months of build-up of what will happen with Sting vs. Luger and 18:00 of anticipation here, Flair tagged Sting. The two shook hands. The fans booed. The two started talking and the fans went to sleep. The match 10:08 with little heat. The key spot was Luger doing a blatant low blow on his "best friend." Finally Sting made a comeback doing the Stinger splash, but missed a second attempt, and Luger put him in the rack. As this happened, lo and behold, Sting's legs knocked out the ref. Flair then clipped Luger in the knee and he tumbled out of the ring. Flair then threw Sting over the top rope. When the ref revived, he counted both out of the ring and awarded Flair the victory. Even though Flair was the lone person playing heel in this match and the finish was the ultimate lame screw-job, there was a huge babyface pop for the finish. Jimmy Hart, who was Luger's manager against Chono, but not in this match (those coherent WCW storylines strike again), then came out to congratulate Flair for basically screwing the guy he managed. *1/2 quote:9. Flair beat Savage in 8:41 to win the WCW title. Hart was in Flair's corner which makes sense since Hart is with Luger, who is feuding with Flair and was screwed by Flair, and the Dungeon of Doom, who hate the Four Horseman. I think they just needed someone who wouldn't screw up in distracting the ref while three guys did a run-in as that was the lame idea for a finish, perhaps to protect or pacify Savage while he dropped the strap. Paul Orndorff came to ringside at one point wearing a neck brace just to keep that angle in people's heads. Savage didn't do much I guess because he's limited by his physical condition, but Flair worked well enough to make it watchable. Flair is like watching the old knuckleball pitcher who can still fool the batters, in this case he knows all the tricks of working the crowd, but in performance, seeing Flair do his routine after all the young fireballers that worked underneath was anti-climactic even if his name and presence are such that the crowd gets into him. This was a nothing match except for the title changing. Hart distracted the ref and Flair went to use the megaphone. Savage got it away from him and used it, and Flair juiced heavily. Savage then hit the elbow off the top, but Hart distracted the ref so he couldn't count the fall. At this point, Benoit and Brian Pillman hit the ring and Savage took care of them as well. Then Arn Anderson hit the ref and KO'd Savage with an object while Benoit, Pillman and Hart distracted the ref. Flair got the pin and after all that, got the biggest babyface pop of the show. After the match the Horseman, in particular Pillman, continued to destroy Savage with Pillman whipping him with the title belt and spitting right on the camera lens, and left the ring to loud cheers. *1/2 quote:C. If that wasn't bizarre enough, the final match took the cake as Kensuke Sasaki retained the U.S. title, or lost it, to One Man Gang (George Gray) in an unannounced match. The storyline was that Sasaki wouldn't defend the title in the U.S. which is why the Sting match was made non-title after previously being for the title. So it makes perfect sense that he works as a heel underneath, then as a babyface here, defends the title in an unannounced match for no reason when the announced title match is made non-title because he refused to defend the title in the United States (Nashville must be like parts of California which go from being part of the U.S. to being considered by many as a foreign country depending upon who is in the ring at that particular moment). So this finish where the title changed hands should also make perfect sense. This match was said to have been far worse than anything else on the show. Gang used the 747 splash and the ref counted the pin, however Sasaki kicked out just before the three count. Gang grabbed the belt and raised his own arm. The ref took the belt from Gang and re-started the match, and Sasaki came back and pinned Gang and was announced as the winner and left with the belt. However, we were told Gang won the title in this match and that the match finish where Sasaki got the three count and was announced as the winner and left with the belt was done to pacify the Japanese because Sasaki is a big star in Japan and losing this match would mean he lost two matches on the same show, one of which was to a bum. The thing about him losing the title is explained that nobody in Japan (or the U.S. for that matter) cares about the U.S. title to begin with so I guess in Japan they'll just ignore he had the belt or make up their own storyline of him vacating the belt while in the U.S. they can re-edit the footage of this match and claim Gang beat him for the title. This was taped and the belief is that they'll simply cut off the tape with Gang holding the belt if it airs on television. Gang is listed as U.S. champion and scheduled to defend the title against Konnan on the 2/11 PPV show from St. Petersburg. DUD quote:They passed out Hogan merchandise to the fans near ringside. The Hogan lookalike fan, who is a guy originally from Detroit who moved to Atlanta and calls himself Roddy Hogan, was moved around by WCW officials several times before the show as they wanted him in a position to be on camera as much as possible. From the Nitro recap: quote:During the match Craig Pittman (whose legit great amateur credentials have now been exaggerated to five-time world champion) asked Steve McMichael to manage him and was turned down. At this rate the next guy he'll be asking is Chris Cruise (who, by the way, wore a diaper on television on one of the cable shows that aired this past weekend). Hulk Hogan beat Ric Flair via DQ in a title match in 7:54. It was all Flair could do is carry Hogan to the level of match he used to have with JYD. Jimmy Hart came out midway so Flair could get the same advantage spot (Hogan goes after manager, attacked from behind) he's done for the last 15 years. Hogan made the superman comeback and hit the legdrop when Anderson ran in and hit Hogan with Knux. Hogan didn't even go down and pop up, he just turned around and beat up Anderson, Pillman and Benoit, got the Knux and had all four Horseman begging off. The Giant then did a run-in with a stool but Savage got the stool away from him and Hogan beat him up as well. The Horseman scattered and Giant wanted to go back but Zodiac (apparently starting his long-anticipated and highly-awaited face turn) stopped him muttering that Hogan was his friend. Didn't they do that angle already last year? And didn't they forget it a few weeks later? Then Hogan & Savage did their closing interview challenging Flair & Anderson for 1/8. Hogan re-arranged all the planned booking at the last minute again as the original plans were for Flair vs. Sting and Luger vs. Savage on 1/8 and to do disputed finishes to lead to rematches the next week in both instances. Anderson & Pillman were supposed to face Sullivan & Hugh Morris in another angle. It appeared on television to be a mixed crowd reaction between Hogan and Flair with both getting cheered but more boos at Hogan, but told live it was decidedly pro-Hogan. It sounded like they booed like crazy during the Hogan interview and superman comeback, though. quote:The comments by Eric Bischoff as he watched Raw were probably more noteworthy. Early in the show Bischoff gave away that the Smoking Gunns won the Raw Bowl and that it wasn't any good and then called it the Toilet Bowl and McMichael started going on about it being the Kitty Kat League. After a sign was aired on Raw that said WWF was where the bigger boys play, he responded that WCW was where the biggest boys play. WWF did a skit on Raw where they had guys dressed up like Ted Turner, Bill Shaw, Harvey Schiller in "Billionaire Ted's Wrassling Warroom with a very old skinny guy dressed to be Hogan and a guy dressed to be Savage complaining how they need more action in their matches and showed clips of Ramon, Michaels, Diesel, etc. and showed Hogan and Savage's face cringing when they showed them doing their finishers. The Hogan character said he was too old and his feet don't leave the ground and that he was too old to be doing new moves (earlier in the show during one of the bumpers they showed the Hogan character asleep) and when Ted asked them what they could do to improve, the Hogan character started cupping his ear and doing lame poses and WWF started 1996 with its new slogan, "The New Generation, Still on top of the hill, not over the hill." Most who called here thought the skit was hilarious. Even those in WCW. The one thing that should comfort everyone that doesn't like all the name calling (as if this is something unique in wrestling and you don't see it in every phone company commercial) is they should realize that if Hogan or Savage were to call Vince tomorrow, they'd be on top there the next day (and visa versa with top WWF talent), and that some day if WWF survives, Hogan and Savage will be back there and they'll all be best friends again. Hogan and Savage prove that. Bischoff then came back during a promo for the movie that followed Nitro which was set in the land of myth and fantasy and he said that must be Stamford, CT, and then also said that the numbers talk and everything else walks. Supposedly WCW will do something on 1/8 to respond to the WWF skit. quote:TBS Saturday Night did a year in review, which just brought back how terrible the product really was for the first nine months of the year. The attention to detail still hasn't improved as they aired skits with Sonny Onno, this time as Kensuke Ishikawa, the Japanese representative of WCW in the re-instating Flair skits. quote:Supposedly there was actually discussion of having Guerrero upset Flair and win the title similar to how Flair made Steamboat in the late 70s in the Carolinas.
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Mar 8, 2013 07:32
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quote:Supposedly there was actually discussion of having Guerrero upset Flair and win the title similar to how Flair made Steamboat in the late 70s in the Carolinas.
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Mar 8, 2013 08:19
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Holy poo poo. Could you imagine? That blew my mind when I read it.
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Mar 8, 2013 08:22
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quote:Chris Cruise (who, by the way, wore a diaper on television on one of the cable shows that aired this past weekend) Cubicle giggle-fit. Thanks Dave/MRP.
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Mar 8, 2013 17:37
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I'm re-reading Death of WCW, after finally getting it on Kindle. God it hurts my soul. I don't think they could have made MORE bad decisions if they were trying to kill the company.
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Mar 9, 2013 10:45
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VogeGandire posted:I'm re-reading Death of WCW, after finally getting it on Kindle. Which reminds me of one passage in the book: The Death of WCW posted:one of Master P's henchmen, Swoll, a huge guy with no talent, was signed for $400,000 per year Now, a page or two before that it mentions how they had hired Master P for five non-wrestling appearances that had cost them about one million dollars in total. I can sort of maybe understand throwing that much money on Master P (even if his angle got killed almost immediately) because they were throwing away money on a lot of "celebrities" at that point, but seriously, Swoll? That's a higher per-year contract than they gave to some of the wrestlers they hired and never used, someone at WCW must have seriously thought Swoll would be the next big thing.
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Mar 9, 2013 16:14
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I believe the intention there was to train him and use him like they would any other wrestler. But that's an obscene amount of money for a guy who COULD be useful once trained. And of course, he wasn't useful.
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Mar 9, 2013 16:24
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Bear in mind, they had Lanny Poffo on a $150,000 contract and never used him once.
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Mar 9, 2013 16:56
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Master P was one of the most profitable hip hop artists at the time, so it's not strange that WCW wanted to feature him, but Swoll's paycheck is insane. The more I look into it, the more I realize WCW made it to the top based on the talent and versatility of their roster, but how they misused that talent is what killed the company.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:19
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What's the story from Jericho's first book? I think it was: Bischoff asks Jericho what type of pay he wants, Jericho throws out what he thinks is an obscene number (at least to an indie wrestler) and Bischoff, not only accepts, but adds an extra 20-50k on top.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:28
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Sporadic posted:What's the story from Jericho's first book? I think it was: Bischoff asks Jericho what type of pay he wants, Jericho throws out what he thinks is an obscene number (at least to an indie wrestler) and Bischoff, not only accepts, but adds an extra 20-50k on top. He asks for $100,000 and Bischoff offers $120,000. I think, anyway.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:42
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Wasn't it Lance Storm who said that he was offered either all transportation paid or all hotels paid, and after accepting one (I think he chose the transportation under the logic that he could sleep in the car) the next day he had a WCW-paid hotel room and car with a full tank of gas. But yeah, WCW had so much talent because they signed anyone who had even the slightest bit of potential, so when things got overcrowded and WWE started picking up the frustrated cream of the crop, all WCW was left with from their great talent pool were long-since ruined guys and never-could-bes.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:49
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VogeGandire posted:Bear in mind, they had Lanny Poffo on a $150,000 contract and never used him once. And, for the longest time, they would arrange, and pay for airfare, for EVERYONE on their roster, even if there was less than a snowball's chance in hell that they would actually be used on the show they were being flown to.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:54
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Growing up in the 90's and not having cable I was a huge WCW mark. My brother spent about 6 weeks in the hospital around 1990 in traction for a broken femur and I'd go there on Saturdays to hang out. Nothing pissed me off more than turning on TBS and WCW not being on time. I present the greatest WCW heels:  I grew up hating the Atlanta braves because they would cut into WCW time. It must have been fate that I finally got a hometown team to root for (Florida Marlins) and they would wind up in the same division as these dastardly bastards. Seriously to this day, gently caress Ryan Klesko, Chipper Jones, Sid Bream , Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, David Justice and the rest of them. I wanna see Marcus Alexander Bagwell vs Too Cold Scorpio dammit 
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Mar 9, 2013 17:57
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Great White Hope posted:But yeah, WCW had so much talent because they signed anyone who had even the slightest bit of potential, so when things got overcrowded and WWE started picking up the frustrated cream of the crop, all WCW was left with from their great talent pool were long-since ruined guys and never-could-bes. So TNA then. 
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Mar 9, 2013 19:23
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My new hobby is "if there's nothing worth watching on TV, watch WCW midcard." La Parka might be the greatest character of all time in anything ever 
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Mar 9, 2013 19:47
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