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Fangz posted:None of this stuff is necessary, really. You can play straight vanilla and have a good time, and there wouldn't be any plot holes as a result. Technically Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival will leave some minor plot holes, but you can just read those descriptions on Wikipedia or something to catch up. Arrival in particular, since even if you weren't directly involved in the events, Shepard still seems to know everything about it, so the player is just kind of left scratching their head if they don't know what people are talking about at the beginning of the game. At least with Shadow Broker, Shepard's as confused as the player is at first once he learns what happened.
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Mar 18, 2013 13:47
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Dan Didio posted:I think I am. Yeah. As I understand it, that is the reason that has been given, it corrolates with what we know of previous versions of the game's script and development and Javik isn't important to the game's narrative or central to it's events at all in the final product. I think the story is similar to what they said the deal with Shale was in DA:O. Originally a part of the base game, cut as they re-wrote the story, then put back in later as additional content. Javik's original story involvement honestly sounded pretty dumb to me and he was better off as just another squad member.
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Mar 18, 2013 14:14
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What was his initial story involvement? Javik, as we got him, is basically perfect, and he seemed to still have plenty to do once you did his mission.
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Mar 18, 2013 14:26
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Rincewind posted:What was his initial story involvement? IIRC something about him being the Catalyst -- not so much the thing controlling the Reapers, but an integral part for the Crucible to work.
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Mar 18, 2013 14:37
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Rincewind posted:What was his initial story involvement? Javik, as we got him, is basically perfect, and he seemed to still have plenty to do once you did his mission. A couple of things - he was the source of conflict with the Virmire Survivor, as originally you did Eden Prime in cooperation with their unnamed "Spectre partner" who was convinced that Javik was a Cerberus reaper experiment gone wrong (he goes on a rampage after escaping his pod, killing anything in his way with biotics) and was dead set on executing him. Shepard is forced to kill the partner to protect Javik. Javik would join the squad and be a mandatory part of the Thessia mission, where Kai Leng would arrive with the VS, convincing them you're still with Cerberus having told them of your betrayal of their friend and framing you for the civilian massacre on Eden Prime. Meanwhile, Javik had interfaced with the beacon and gone into a trance like state. After Kai Leng defeats Shepard, he escapes with the still entranced Javik, who is unable to defend himself, and it turns out that he himself is the Catalyst.
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Mar 18, 2013 15:05
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Rincewind posted:Speaking of locking in romances, in my latest ME1 game I... kind of... accidentally banged Kaidan. I was just trying to be polite! Anyway, how do I make sure I stay with Garrus in ME3? You go back and load up an old save, then tell Kaiden that you're not interested with a nuke 
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Mar 18, 2013 15:18
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Dr. Abysmal posted:A couple of things - he was the source of conflict with the Virmire Survivor, as originally you did Eden Prime in cooperation with their unnamed "Spectre partner" who was convinced that Javik was a Cerberus reaper experiment gone wrong (he goes on a rampage after escaping his pod, killing anything in his way with biotics) and was dead set on executing him. Shepard is forced to kill the partner to protect Javik. Javik would join the squad and be a mandatory part of the Thessia mission, where Kai Leng would arrive with the VS, convincing them you're still with Cerberus having told them of your betrayal of their friend and framing you for the civilian massacre on Eden Prime. Meanwhile, Javik had interfaced with the beacon and gone into a trance like state. After Kai Leng defeats Shepard, he escapes with the still entranced Javik, who is unable to defend himself, and it turns out that he himself is the Catalyst. Wow, that's... incredibly stupid. Cutting all of that stuff and just making Javik your Prothean space bro was a pretty smart move.
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Mar 18, 2013 16:15
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precision posted:Kaidan is a handsome fellow and I will hear nothing bad said about him. You ain't lying. 
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Mar 18, 2013 17:53
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precision posted:I think she looks fine in 1, but in some scenes her lips really do look weirdly big. I romanced him in ME1 even though the game foolishly blocked my attempts at a same-sex romance. I knew he was mine from the first time he wiped his forehead. Horizon was just a setback.
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Mar 18, 2013 18:00
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rypakal posted:I romanced him in ME1 even though the game foolishly blocked my attempts at a same-sex romance. I knew he was mine from the first time he wiped his forehead. Horizon was just a setback. Oh no, don't tell me there's a Kaiden Sweat now too! 
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Mar 18, 2013 18:03
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PunkBoy posted:Oh no, don't tell me there's a Kaiden Sweat now too! 
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Mar 18, 2013 18:15
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Dan Didio posted:I think I am. Yeah. As I understand it, that is the reason that has been given, it corrolates with what we know of previous versions of the game's script and development and Javik isn't important to the game's narrative or central to it's events at all in the final product. Haha, ok, dude. EA made effort to take a character out of the game because they were too busy, but he was still ready to be day one DLC. Good poo poo, Sherlock.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:02
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Mar 18, 2013 19:35
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There can be no response to this other than "gently caress yessss!"
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Mar 18, 2013 19:39
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Jerusalem posted:The main thing that makes me sad is:
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Mar 18, 2013 19:51
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Haha, ok, dude. EA made effort to take a character out of the game because they were too busy, but he was still ready to be day one DLC. Good poo poo, Sherlock. I'm not sure if you know how game development works nowadays, but there's a period of time that exists betweent when the game goes gold/is finally ready and when the game launches through which developers typically work on day one DLC and similar. EA didn't take Javik out of the game either, nor because they were 'too busy'. I didn't say either of those things. Dr. Abysmal posted:I think the story is similar to what they said the deal with Shale was in DA:O. Originally a part of the base game, cut as they re-wrote the story, then put back in later as additional content. Yes, this is what I was trying to describe. As far as I know, which could be wrong, this is correct. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 22:50
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Dan Didio posted:EA didn't take Javik out of the game either I don't think you can say that for certain unless you're one of the Bioware devs that hangs out here.  I mean I'm pretty sure it's possible that EA said "Hey, do that thing where you leave out a party member and make them day one DLC, and this time make it one that people really want and not some lame archer".
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Mar 19, 2013 01:31
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precision posted:I don't think you can say that for certain unless you're one of the Bioware devs that hangs out here. I was clarifying that I didn't say that, not stating that personally as a fact.
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Mar 19, 2013 01:34
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By March 11 2011 Bioware was edging closer and closer to the original deadline of holidays 2011. Considering the amount of work they still had to do, they pleaded with EA for more time and got 3 extra months. They then considered their options and decided to remove Javik and his missions from the main plotline. Seeing as he was he was integral to what was referred to as the "CAT[alyst]" missions, they also had to rework parts of Thessia. Eventually though, they saved time by removing him. When was it finished then? For consoles there is verification period that lasts 1 to 3 months on average, where launch builds are sent to Microsoft and Sony to be tested and, if the builds pass their tests, receive the go-ahead to be released on their systems. During this period, most department teams have nothing to do because A) they haven't received the results of the tests yet and/or B) their department has no problems to solve. So instead of letting them play with their tumbs or lay them off, they are set to work on DLC or other things. Batham fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 02:12
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Dan Didio posted:I'm not sure if you know how game development works nowadays, but there's a period of time that exists betweent when the game goes gold/is finally ready and when the game launches through which developers typically work on day one DLC and similar. You said they cut him from the final release...not sure what else that could mean. But, yeah, cool, Day One DLC is really great. I mean hell, if the devs are just sitting around on their thumbs after a game goes Gold, I'm bloody grateful some kindly EA suit is putting them to work trying to nickel and dime me out of stuff that's already mostly on the disc.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:14
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Batham posted:By March 11 2011 Bioware was edging closer and closer to the original deadline of holidays 2011. Considering the amount of work they still had to do, they pleaded with EA for more time and got 3 extra months. They then considered their options and decided to remove Javik and his missions from the main plotline. Seeing as he was he was integral to what was referred to as the "CAT[alyst]" missions, they also had to rework parts of Thessia. Eventually though, they saved time by removing him. I don't know what you're trying to say or who you're responding to because no one asserted that! Batham posted:When was the finished then? For consoles there is verification period that lasts 1 to 3 months on average, where launch builds are sent to Microsoft and Sony to be tested and, if the builds pass their tests, receive the go-ahead to be released on their systems. During this period, most departments have nothing to do because A) they haven't received the results of the tests yet and/or B) their department has no problems to solve. So instead of letting them play with their tumbs, they are set to work on DLC or other things. As we've already established, most of the content for the DLC had already been produced and was, by most accounts, fully implemented in the game. We're not talking about building the entire DLC from scratch. It's shady, but there's no evidence that EA or Bioware took the From Ashes DLC, as it was implemented in the finished game, cut it out fully and without alteration jsut before release, and then charged people for it. Knuc If U Buck posted:You said they cut him from the final release...not sure what else that could mean. But, yeah, cool, Day One DLC is really great. I mean hell, if the devs are just sitting around on their thumbs after a game goes Gold, I'm bloody grateful some kindly EA suit is putting them to work trying to nickel and dime me out of stuff that's already mostly on the disc. I said they cut him a significant time before the final release, according to everything we know about the game's development. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 02:15
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Dan Didio posted:I don't know what you're trying to say or who you're responding to because no one asserted that! 
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Mar 19, 2013 02:22
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Batham posted:It is relevant to the "they simply cut him so they could sell him as DLC!" opinion some have. I generally couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic with that whole post or not. Hell, I'm still not sure, given the way you've worded most of it.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:25
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Batham posted:It is relevant to the "they simply cut him so they could sell him as DLC!" opinion some have. It's not an opinion, it's a logical conclusion I've come to given the nature of how businesses work. Firms seek to make profits, everything they do is to that end. If they would make more money selling something that they would have otherwise included for free than they would lose by the damage done to their reputation due to monetising it, then they will do it. Judging from people's "oh, they didn't do it on purpose, the game was Gold, it HAD to be DLC" reaction, I guess they calculated pretty well.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:38
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I have fond memories of the days before DLC. Like when Xenogears had its budget slashed in production and had to release with its entire second disc executed as a digital novel instead of an RPG. That sure was great. It won't stop anyone from whining, but once upon a time, content that had to be cut was gone for good. I kind of like the fact that games I enjoy can continue to produce new content (even if "it should have been in the vanilla game," for what little that's worth) for a year or so. And if they're closely tied to the core game content, great! I didn't see the anti-DLC crowd cheering about how loosely integrated Zaeed and Kasumi were.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:39
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Descent 2 being a mappack sold as a full retail product was also neat.  I don't condone all DLC there is, especially when we're talking about Capcom, but some of it is better than what we got before (e.g. ME story DLC, Skyrim/Oblivion DLC).
Batham fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 02:40
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Batham posted:Decent 2 being a mappack sold as a full retail product was also neat. Six full degrees, man.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:41
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Zaeed was free, and Kasumi wasn't day one. Not relevant. I like DLC, I own a bunch of ME3 DLC and some for other games. I bought all the sleeping Dogs stuff in the Steam Sale. This doesn't preclude me from complaining about things I think are lovely.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:42
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Zaeed was free, and Kasumi wasn't day one. Not relevant. I like DLC, I own a bunch of ME3 DLC and some for other games. I bought all the sleeping Dogs stuff in the Steam Sale. This doesn't preclude me from complaining about things I think are lovely. Kasumi was on the disc on day one. Her dialog was all in the game already and with the save editor she could be hacked into the suicide mission even, it's how we knew about her long before any announcement was ever made. My first post on these forums was details of how to get her to show up, in placeholder form, during the suicide mission and even what she could do there. Zaeed was also only free if you purchased a new copy of the game.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:47
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Dr. Abysmal posted:Kasumi was on the disc on day one. Her dialog was all in the game already and with the save editor she could be hacked into the suicide mission even, it's how we knew about her long before any announcement was ever made. My first post on these forums was details of how to get her to show up, in placeholder form, during the suicide mission and even what she could do there. Zaeed was also only free if you purchased a new copy of the game. Well I didn't know that. That's just as bad. I mean if people are willing to pay that, then power to Bioware or whatever, it just chaps my rear end, and contributes to sour feelings towards them.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:52
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Dr. Abysmal posted:Kasumi was on the disc on day one. Her dialog was all in the game already and with the save editor she could be hacked into the suicide mission even, it's how we knew about her long before any announcement was ever made. My first post on these forums was details of how to get her to show up, in placeholder form, during the suicide mission and even what she could do there. Zaeed was also only free if you purchased a new copy of the game. Yeah, it sounds really lovely if you ignore the placeholder model and the pretty cool mission that wasn't on the disc.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:57
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DrNutt posted:Yeah, it sounds really lovely if you ignore the placeholder model and the pretty cool mission that wasn't on the disc. I'm not ignoring that, I'm just noting that Kasumi was not developed after the game was already out and was already integrated into the game well before she officially came out. There was even leftover evidence that you were originally going to meet her on Illium and that her and Zaeed had both recruitment and loyalty missions. None of Zaeed's or Javik's mission content is on the disc either and they were available to download on day one. It was probably just easier to integrate them into the main game by having it already on the disc rather than having to package all of that poo poo up into a DLC file.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:05
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How long does it typically take Bioware (or EA I guess) to slash the cost of their DLC? I just got ME3 for the PC for free due to my copy of SimCity, but I am reluctant to purchase the DLC for it at its current price since I already own ME2 and ME3 on the ps3. I'd just suck it up and buy the DLC for my playstation copy, but with the ps4 on the horizon that just seems like throwing bad money after worse...
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Mar 19, 2013 03:10
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I don't know if they ever cut their DLC prices. Lair of the Shadow Broker, for example, has cost 800 points for 3 years.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:13
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ME2's DLC remains full price to this day and has never been put on sale. That trend is likely to follow with ME3. The best you could hope for is a sale on BioWare points on Origin.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:17
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:How long does it typically take Bioware (or EA I guess) to slash the cost of their DLC? I just got ME3 for the PC for free due to my copy of SimCity, but I am reluctant to purchase the DLC for it at its current price since I already own ME2 and ME3 on the ps3. For PS3, you're better off finding a deal on PSN cards. For PC, the BioWare points themselves will go on sale every once and a while but DLC even less often. Dr. Abysmal posted:I'm not ignoring that, I'm just noting that Kasumi was not developed after the game was already out and was already integrated into the game well before she officially came out. There was even leftover evidence that you were originally going to meet her on Illium and that her and Zaeed had both recruitment and loyalty missions. None of Zaeed's or Javik's mission content is on the disc either and they were available to download on day one. It was probably just easier to integrate them into the main game by having it already on the disc rather than having to package all of that poo poo up into a DLC file. BrokenKnees fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 03:18
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Thanks for your help, guys! I wasn't aware that bioware points ever went on sale, since the last time I fired up Origin before SimCity was when Spore came out. I guess I'll just keep my eyes open!
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Mar 19, 2013 03:27
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BrokenKnees posted:For PC, the BioWare points themselves will go on sale every once and a while but DLC even less often. And by less often - never. The DLC never goes on sale. It's extremely frustrating.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:34
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Related to DLC pricing I was really hoping one of the options from the SimCity fiasco would have been some DLC. Should have just spent the money on the DLC in the first place, I didn't even like SimCity. 
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Mar 19, 2013 03:46
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I don't think it's a realistic possibility that it's a coincidence that Origins, Dragon Age 2, and Mass Effect 3 all had characters available to buy on Day One or that they all had them because some people had spare time to kill. I don't care about the Javik early-script stuff, I am pretty certain that it was always a plan that there would be Mass Effect 3: The Game and that there would also be Mass Effect 3: The Optional Squadmate for $10 in order to increase profits. DLC can be awesome. I happily bought literally every piece of DLC for ME3 and most of ME2's. But Shale/Sebastien/Javik is a stupid trend and I hate having to choose between buying it because Javik is awesome or depriving myself of Javik to "vote with my wallet" despite the fact that $10 doesn't really matter to my budget. So basically I would have just preferred they said "gently caress it, this game costs $70 on day one". In the NES/SNES generations there was upward variance in game pricing (Final Fantasy "3", Chrono Trigger, and hell Phantasy Star 2 was like $80) so having an industry standard upward cap of $60 and then having tons of "season pass" poo poo is just a clumsy way to go about it to me. Just charge more for games that cost more to make, at least it's honest.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:55
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