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Ubik posted:I strongly disagree with this, from both homebrewing and professional experience. I'm confused because I don't see what we're really disagreeing on and then you're talking about grain bill complexity which isn't related to what I said at all. This is the recipe that I commented on: http://hopville.com/recipe/1691994 Fairly simple grain bill, the only question is the quantity of the crystal (and flaked oats in extract, but pretend they're mashing and replace the extract with 2-row). Is a pound and a half of Crystal malt high for 5 gallons? Yes, but it's not crazy, and I don't believe "For 5 gallons, 1lb of crystal malt is on the super high end of caramel sweetness."
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Mar 25, 2013 16:52
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There's a pound of crystal 80 though and a pound of roasted. That's a lot of unfermentables with strong flavors.
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Mar 25, 2013 17:05
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Midorka posted:There's a pound of crystal 80 though and a pound of roasted. That's a lot of unfermentables with strong flavors. It looks a little funky to me too, but it might be OK since he's steeping the grains and not really getting all he would out of the roasted as if he mashed it. Kinda sweet, roasted, hoppy porter.
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Mar 25, 2013 17:09
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Midorka posted:There's a pound of crystal 80 though and a pound of roasted. That's a lot of unfermentables with strong flavors. That beer looks like a Stout if I had to guess, in which case the amount of crystal doesn't particularly odd at all. The only thing that seems off about it is the fact that the Flaked Oats can't be used properly in an extract recipe. A pound+ of crystal is a lot for an IPA, but that isn't true for every style.
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Mar 25, 2013 17:10
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Crystal is a devil malt that should never ever be used except in extreme cases of cheating in residual sweetness and mouth feel to session beers. There, I said it.
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Mar 25, 2013 17:18
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zedprime posted:Crystal is a devil malt that should never ever be used except in extreme cases of cheating in residual sweetness and mouth feel to session beers. There, I said it. I'm going to make this for you now: http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/42175/015-crystal-rainbow
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Mar 25, 2013 17:35
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With the Cervesa and the Tripel fermenting along, I've decided my next batch should be a bit hoppier. I'm thinking an IPA. Anyone have any experience with this Dogfish Head 60 Minute Clone?
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Mar 25, 2013 17:54
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My friend who works for a brewery says you're all wrong and nuts  Seriously though, I'll see how this comes out. I did notice it was a hell of a lot under the malt section. I guess I could have not done the oats and it would have been just fine.
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Mar 25, 2013 17:54
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zedprime posted:Crystal is a devil malt that should never ever be used except in extreme cases of cheating in residual sweetness and mouth feel to session beers. There, I said it. This is one of those weird opinions that people actually say and mean but I can't figure out why. It seems like a weird extension of the whole "don't add too much crystal malt to APA/IPA."
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Mar 25, 2013 17:55
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There's a pound of crystal and 2 pounds of melanoidin in my Flanders sour and it tastes awesome.  But I agree in almost every case the simpler the better, as far as grainbill goes.
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Mar 25, 2013 18:03
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I put a pound of C60 in my extra pale ale recipe and it's good. Also my RIS has a pound of C120. Crystal malt is good, I don't understand the hate it gets. I think it's because Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River once said too much crystal malt in an IIPA is bad so people started thinking it's bad for everything.
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Mar 25, 2013 18:04
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baquerd posted:I'm confused because I don't see what we're really disagreeing on and then you're talking about grain bill complexity which isn't related to what I said at all. This is the recipe that I commented on: http://hopville.com/recipe/1691994 Fairly simple grain bill, the only question is the quantity of the crystal (and flaked oats in extract, but pretend they're mashing and replace the extract with 2-row). I mostly just disagreed with the idea that a high amount of crystal malt isn't a problem in a recipe, when it can easily unbalance a beer and throw it off. Then I used that as a jumping point to get on one of my occasional soapboxes about recipe formulation.  That recipe actually looks pretty decent! Your 15% crystal malt statement is what caught my eye, though.I don't think anybody's saying that crystal malt CAN'T be good, just that it tends to be used in higher quantities than necessary and in recipes where it interferes with the flavor profile rather than compliments it. I still use it in my recipes, but a lot LESS than I used to.
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Mar 25, 2013 18:20
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Angry Grimace posted:This is one of those weird opinions that people actually say and mean but I can't figure out why. It seems like a weird extension of the whole "don't add too much crystal malt to APA/IPA." I think its one of those psychological things where you can pick out and taste crystal specifically you did it wrong, therefore crystal should never be used, when the real idea is to use it to balance things. Also I am probably technically one of those people because I try never to use crystal and get my color from dry kilned malts. All you crystal people are insane. The last time I used crystal was a pound of 20L in a 4% abv ESB to cheat residual sugar in without doing a crazy step mash.
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Mar 25, 2013 18:32
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So here's a question for you masters of Grain. Ive been toying with a few malted mead (braggot) recipes. I see a lot of stuff about what percentage of grain should be this, this and this type. Everything I've come up with uses those more specialty grains that say to only use it for say 20% of your grains. So what do some of you guys use as a good "base" grain? Or in the case of mead, does honey replace the base grain and I can just go on steeping my specialty malts as desired? Edit: And by "specialty" I mean like chocolate or cara aroma malt. etc...
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Mar 25, 2013 18:35
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I did an ESB recipe today, can use some feedback. It is a style I'm not all that familiar with. Could also use some guidance on fermentation temps. HOME BREW RECIPE: Title: ESB Brew Method: All Grain Style Name: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (ESB) Boil Time: 60 min Batch Size: 4 gallons (fermentor volume) Boil Size: 5 gallons Efficiency: 60% (brew house) STATS: Original Gravity: 1.060 Final Gravity: 1.017 ABV (standard): 5.71% IBU (tinseth): 37.67 SRM (morey): 11.93 FERMENTABLES: 10 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (93.6%) 8 oz - United Kingdom - Crystal 90L (4.7%) 3 oz - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (1.8%) HOPS: 1 oz - East Kent Goldings for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 5, IBU: 24.12) 1 oz - East Kent Goldings for 10 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 5, IBU: 8.74) 1 oz - East Kent Goldings for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil (AA 5, IBU: 4.81) MASH STEPS: 1) Infusion, Temp: 154 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 13 qt, Water Temp: 171 2) Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Amount: 14 qt, Water Temp: 187 YEAST: Fermentis / Safale - Safale - English Ale Yeast S-04 Starter: No Form: Dry Attenuation (avg): 72% Flocculation: Medium Optimum Temp: 59 - 75 F Fermentation Temp: 65 F Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P
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Mar 25, 2013 18:37
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zedprime posted:The last time I used crystal was a pound of 20L in a 4% abv ESB to cheat residual sugar in without doing a crazy step mash. I don't think that use of crystal malt is cheating at all - it's accurate for the style, and British bitters mostly use single infusion mashes as far as I know. Marshmallow Blue posted:So here's a question for you masters of Grain. Ive been toying with a few malted mead (braggot) recipes. I see a lot of stuff about what percentage of grain should be this, this and this type. Everything I've come up with uses those more specialty grains that say to only use it for say 20% of your grains. So what do some of you guys use as a good "base" grain? Or in the case of mead, does honey replace the base grain and I can just go on steeping my specialty malts as desired? I'm not an authority on braggot at all, so you'll have to take this with a grain of salt... I think the honey would take the place of base grain, as it provides loads of fermentables all on its own. Most specialty malts (crystal and roasted malts) can simply be steeped in hot (150 - 165 degrees F) water to get color and flavor out of them. When they say to use them as 20% (or whatever) of a recipe, they actually mean the total fermentables, which again the honey has covered. So while it probably doesn't matter for braggots, my favorite base malt is Maris Otter for most things. I also bought a sack of Golden Promise to try out, and I have a recipe that relies heavily on Briess Ashburne Mild malt. I also keep great Western Northwest Pale Ale Malt around for cleaner-tasting American styles.
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Mar 25, 2013 18:50
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bewbies posted:I did an ESB recipe today, can use some feedback. It is a style I'm not all that familiar with. Could also use some guidance on fermentation temps. Funnily enough ESB is one of the styles where you want 10% crystal, it can even go up to 15%.
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Mar 25, 2013 18:54
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bewbies posted:I did an ESB recipe today, can use some feedback. 1.060 is right on the high edge of that style. While it's not a problem, necessarily, you may want to back it off some if you are brewing for a competition or something. My personal preference would be to ditch the Carapils as I think it is out of place in a English beer - you definitely don't need it for heading in a beer with so little carbonation and head anyway. Mash temp looks good to me. Ferment temp looks good too, but of course that is the temp of the beer itself, not ambient - if you ferment at 65 ambient, the beer will be a few degrees warmer.
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Mar 25, 2013 19:04
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bewbies posted:YEAST: Take this with a grain of salt but S-04 has ruined just about every beer I've used it in. If you like it that's cool but it never seems to work for me.
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Mar 25, 2013 19:18
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internet celebrity posted:Take this with a grain of salt but S-04 has ruined just about every beer I've used it in. If you like it that's cool but it never seems to work for me. Could you go into this a bit more?
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Mar 25, 2013 19:31
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zedprime posted:I think its one of those psychological things where you can pick out and taste crystal specifically you did it wrong, therefore crystal should never be used, when the real idea is to use it to balance things. I don't understand the concept of crystal malt as the cheater's substitute for decoction mashing. Bitters have been using crystal malts since the 1800s when they were invented. Moreover, as Josh notes, as far as I'm aware, most British ales were single infusion mashed even in the early 1800s (something which was reiterated by Mitch Steele in his historical stuff on the original India Pale Ale.) internet celebrity posted:Take this with a grain of salt but S-04 has ruined just about every beer I've used it in. If you like it that's cool but it never seems to work for me. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 25, 2013 |
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Mar 25, 2013 19:42
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Could you go into this a bit more? I used it most recently in a Surly Bender inspired recipe and the best way I can describe it is "tastes like homebrew" flavor. I pitched 2 packs rehydrated, 6 gallons of 1.070 wort, Fermented at 63F ambient temp. When it was young it was a complete cotton candy/bubblegum bomb but after a couple weeks it has become a sharp fruit/estery and unpleasantly nutty kind of flavor. It has been a couple days since I had some so I could pull a pint when I get home and give a better review. The pale ale I used it in came out okay though, it had lots of fruity hops and I drank most of it in the cotton candy/bubblegum phase. I think the higher IBUs in a pale ale mask the weird nuttiness better. I'm not saying it's a terrible yeast, a lot of people seem to like it. I just know it's not for me.
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Mar 25, 2013 19:50
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Angry Grimace posted:I don't understand the concept of crystal malt as the cheater's substitute for decoction mashing. Bitters have been using crystal malts since the 1800s when they were invented. Moreover, as Josh notes, as far as I'm aware, most British ales were single infusion mashed even in the early 1800s (something which was reiterated by Mitch Steele in his historical stuff on the original India Pale Ale.) S-04 has this really annoying razors edge where any lower has tons of diacetyl and any higher throws off more esters than most are comfortable with. 65 is just about right though.
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Mar 25, 2013 19:54
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internet celebrity posted:Take this with a grain of salt but S-04 has ruined just about every beer I've used it in. If you like it that's cool but it never seems to work for me. Could it be that it does best at lower temps? I was planning a zombie dust clone that used S04 also and it called for ferm temps around 62. Is there another yeast I should use in the ESB? I only have access to White Labs stuff locally.
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Mar 25, 2013 19:54
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Bleh sorry to keep spamming and paranoiding up this thread, but I was looking at the yeast spreadsheet and it said ferments 65-68, but right now it's between 70 and 72. What can I expect to happen?
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Mar 25, 2013 20:00
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internet celebrity posted:I used it most recently in a Surly Bender inspired recipe and the best way I can describe it is "tastes like homebrew" flavor. I pitched 2 packs rehydrated, 6 gallons of 1.070 wort, Fermented at 63F ambient temp. When it was young it was a complete cotton candy/bubblegum bomb but after a couple weeks it has become a sharp fruit/estery and unpleasantly nutty kind of flavor. It has been a couple days since I had some so I could pull a pint when I get home and give a better review.  Are you me? I did the same thing, and had the same flavors. The beer hit its best tasting spot about a month after its brew date, but its been all downhill ever since. I have used it in a few different things, and its OK, but I don't think I am going to be using it until I can control my fermentation temps better.
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Mar 25, 2013 20:11
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Saint Darwin posted:Bleh sorry to keep spamming and paranoiding up this thread, but I was looking at the yeast spreadsheet and it said ferments 65-68, but right now it's between 70 and 72. What can I expect to happen? You might develop some estery flavors, but nothing too crazy. Do you have a way to cool your fermentor down a couple of degrees?
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Mar 25, 2013 20:20
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zedprime posted:Not for decoction mashing, for a two step mash for a bit finer control over fermentable vs nonfermantable ratio. With only 30 or 40 points of gravity I was worried about a single infusion ending up all or nothing fermentable that yeast would just chew through without the crystal. I would have liked to try 100% marris otter if I was more confident on my mashing, single infusion or step. I believe they were just single infusion mashed in the 1800s too based on the historical recipes that I was reading the other day. But that's kind of beside my point which is that I don't think Crystal malt is some kind of cheaters method of introducing unfermentable sugar. I don't think they really taste the same, particularly when you're using the darker crystals. Saint Darwin posted:Bleh sorry to keep spamming and paranoiding up this thread, but I was looking at the yeast spreadsheet and it said ferments 65-68, but right now it's between 70 and 72. What can I expect to happen? Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 25, 2013 |
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Mar 25, 2013 20:31
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hellfaucet posted:You might develop some estery flavors, but nothing too crazy. Do you have a way to cool your fermentor down a couple of degrees? Not reliably. It's in a closet in my room since the rest of the house is crazy hot or crazy cold.
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Mar 25, 2013 20:32
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Saint Darwin posted:Not reliably. It's in a closet in my room since the rest of the house is crazy hot or crazy cold. Is it on a shelf in the closet or on the floor? The floor can be a few degrees cooler.
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Mar 25, 2013 20:39
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On the floor. I can try to rig a swamp cooler by putting it in a bin with a wet towel around it and pointing a fan at it, but I'd be worried it might get TOO cool since I just want to knock a few degrees off.
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Mar 25, 2013 20:40
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bewbies posted:Could it be that it does best at lower temps? I was planning a zombie dust clone that used S04 also and it called for ferm temps around 62. You've got quite a few options as both WY and WL carry a lot of British yeast, which mostly is used in bitters. WLP002 is a staple British ale yeast. WLP013 will also work (but will attenuate more). WLP005 is Ringwood yeast, which is among the most known offenders for producing diacetyl and is quite temperamental but is used by a lot of breweries. WLP007 is Whitbread, but I've also heard its the liquid version of S04, which I have no evidence to support.
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Mar 25, 2013 20:43
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bewbies posted:Could it be that it does best at lower temps? I was planning a zombie dust clone that used S04 also and it called for ferm temps around 62. If you're trying to do a Three Floyd's Zombie Dust clone, their house yeast is Wyeast 1968, which is also WLP002. Take that for what it's worth.
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Mar 25, 2013 21:05
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Alright, I'm probably worrying over nothing. I brewed the Imperial Stout from Northern Brewer here: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/imperial-stout-all-grain-kit.html My issue is that I've always heard about unnecessary secondaries and such, and pretty much all the NB kits call for it. I let this beer ferment with 2 packets of S-04 for over a month in primary, and then I bottled it. OK, here's the stupid worry. I tried one after only 7 days in the bottle, and it has a strong acetaldehyde flavor. It's like an apple Jolly Rancher, but the aftertaste is awesome. I know that a big beer like this (OG 1.090) needs to age, but will acetaldehyde go away with bottle conditioning or should I have done the secondary? Obviously, I'm going to be aging this at least until Autumn, I just had to give it a taste because I am impatient.
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Mar 25, 2013 21:23
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bewbies posted:Is there another yeast I should use in the ESB? I only have access to White Labs stuff locally. I freaking LOVE WY1275 Thames Valley in a Best Bitter or ESB. Sez here WLP023 Burton Ale is the same strain.
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Mar 25, 2013 21:28
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Oh god dammit it's down to about 62 in my room. I've kicked the heater up a few notches to hopefully bring that back up. This is the worst and I really need to figure out a way to keep this temp more reliable. edit: VVV Yeh, sorry, it's the first I'm doing completely alone and in my place. I have no idea what to expect really since before it was more of my friend doing it and me helping and watching while he ran around trying to do 4 beers at once. edit2: Gonna bow out of this thread for a few days, unless it literally catches fire or something. Adult Sword Owner fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Mar 25, 2013 |
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Mar 25, 2013 22:59
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Saint Darwin posted:Oh god dammit it's down to about 62 in my room. I've kicked the heater up a few notches to hopefully bring that back up. Is this just your first beer, or can we count on regular stream-of-consciousness nervous breakdowns? Just relax. People made beer in loving caves that was drinkable. Your first few beers are going to probably swing wildly from awful to drinkable. Just enjoy the ride, and learn from mistakes. Production-level consistency is not something you can expect anytime in the near future.
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Mar 25, 2013 23:05
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Also, your ferm temp will be a bit higher than your room temp so 62 is probably perfect.
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Mar 26, 2013 02:49
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I'm brewing a Cervesa with Wyeast 2007, and in the description they said the yeast is very tolerant of a wide range of temperatures including room temperature. I read the description and didn't really focus on the yeast, and it's been fermenting for 24 hours at around 68F. Did I just screw myself, or is 2007 that tolerant? Should I put it in the garage where temps are much lower?
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Mar 26, 2013 03:02
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Dammit I can't wait any longer. 2 days in the bottle and SCREW IT I'M TRYING ONE.
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Mar 26, 2013 03:09
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