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Chronische posted:Looks like Sicily took on the HRE... and won. Other way around, I started as this lady and stole Bohemond's inheritance. 
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Apr 9, 2013 02:35
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The Fatimids may look strong and powerful, but just like any Heathen scum they are but filth before the sword of our lord.* Deus lo Vult I say! Let the followers of Islam know what the de Hauteville dynasty thinks of Muslims who claim to have power! *: The author takes no responsibility for the actual truth behind this statement.
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Apr 9, 2013 02:37
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I'm going to vote to Crusade, but more from a character standpoint. Bohemond is ambitious and proud, as well as incredibly skilled at arms. I don't think someone like that would be able to resist the allure of the glory and lands that a successful (and he probably won't even consider failure) crusade would bring. A crusade would also give a nice boost to his relations with his vassals.
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Apr 9, 2013 03:12
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Mirdini posted:Deus Vult! This. We're going to take Jerusalem.
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Apr 9, 2013 04:05
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You are all cowards for turning your backs on our duty to the Faith. Deus Vult! That said, may I propose a... measured response? We do not exactly know the depth of the resistance we will be facing. We should be careful before overcommitting our troops. (So don't be scared to drop all our troops onto the Holy Land so everyone gets the Crusader trait and then run away like a bitch if there's a doomstack sitting around.)
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Apr 9, 2013 04:49
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Brutus Salad posted:Wiz changed it in Ck2+, it's now Primary title + whatever the hell the guy you're invading had as his demesne. You do get strong claims on everything in the invaded realm though, that's nice.
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Apr 9, 2013 09:52
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NihilCredo posted:So, uh, isn't that just a short time waster? I mean, if you have beaten the whole kingdom already there's no way in hell you'll be having problems pressing all those claims against the various dukes and counts. Not necessarily. For example, it's generally easier to win the initial invasions as Willian of Normandy or Harald Hardrada than it is to press all those claims against the various Anglo-Saxon vassals. It allows what happened historically to occur (William basically wiping out the Saxon nobility) while not making it trivially easy or completely unfair to a player who happens to be on the other end of it. Personally, I quite like how it works now (in fact, I might even be able to take a little bit of credit for it, since I suggested it to Wiz before he implemented it). Anyway, it looks like people are just about finished voting, so I'll say that the vote will end within the next 24 hours (I don't think it's necessary to pick an exact time). Right now it looks like those for the crusade have a narrow lead (and expanding within Italy seems quite popular as well). If anyone wants to get their votes in, do it soon.
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Apr 10, 2013 10:02
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Deus Vult, no question. If the reasoning against the Crusade is fear of failure, the argument is invalid, for if Normans fear failure would they have left Normandy for the Italian frontier. If Normans fear failure, would they have gone from Scandinavia to Normandy itself. Failure is not an option form Normans and fear of it is fear of a specter. If the reasoning against the Crusade is that it will alienate Muslim subjects, then perhaps these subjects should suffer as they are assimilated into the Sicilian Kingdom.
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Apr 10, 2013 11:02
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I do agree with the Holy Father that retaking Jerusalem would hasten the freedom of Christendom, but the Mahomedian scurge exists close to hpome too. We purged those infidels from Sicily, now we must strike them to free what once was Roman. Deus Vult, to Jerusalem, and to Carthage!
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Apr 10, 2013 11:13
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Go Crusade like the King you are.
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Apr 10, 2013 19:16
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God wills it! Your father gained a kingdom by the sword and with the blessing of the Holy Father, how could you turn your back on the chance to do the same? edit: And if the added prestige and experience we gain crusading helps us conquer in Italy a few years from now, so much the better!
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Apr 10, 2013 19:37
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Chapter Seven: The Kingdom of God (1095-1099) The debate within the Curia is long and difficult. A solid faction dismisses the Crusade as a fool’s errand, many of them advocating an equally grand goal – unification of the entire Italian peninsula under Norman rule. After months of debate, it is the crusade’s supporters that win out in the end, much to the dismay of Sicily’s Muslim population. King Bohemond sends word to the pope that the Kingdom of Sicily will join the crusade and begins to gather his armies.  Sicily is one of the few Western European states with the naval capability to transport a large crusader army directly to the Levant, giving the Normans a large advantage in reaching the Holy Land quickly. Initially, the fleet makes for Beirut, where most of the crusader army is located, supplied by the Byzantine lords of Tripoli and Antioch.  Bohemond, along with his cousin and marshal Duke Botolf of Calabria, make the risky decision to change course and sail directly for Jerusalem, establishing a base of operations near the city of Ascalon and then marching toward Jerusalem.  It isn’t long before they have the city under siege, far behind the main lines of engagement.  The manoeuvre serves to buy the Norman army time for the siege, but it is not long enough to take the city. An army led by the Fatimid caliph himself comes to relieve the siege, setting the stage for the greatest battle of the crusade.  The battle is slow and indecisive at first, but the turning point comes during a misguided charge by a group of Fatimid cavalry, led by the Emir of Alexandria, the Caliph’s nephew. The emir and his men are cut down by the Norman infantry, and the Norman counterattack shatters the left flank of the Fatimid army.  From there, the battle becomes a slaughter. The Arabs retreat in disarray, the Caliph barely escaping with his life as his men are cut down by the Normans. The battlefield is littered with corpses, but it is an absolute triumph for the Norman forces – their greatest since the Battle of Civitate over 50 years before.  Norman celebrations are only amplified by news from the coast that more cities are falling to the crusaders. To the desperate and undersupplied army, it is clear that God truly does favour their endeavours.  Reinvigorated, they storm the walls of Jerusalem, taking the city and proclaiming the victory of the crusade.  Such proclamations are short-sighted, however, and the crusaders have only occupied the city for a few months when news comes that a new Fatimid army has taken Ascalon and is moving toward Jerusalem. The beleaguered crusader army has no choice but to once again muster and meet them in battle, their chances of withstanding a long siege remote at best.  The second Battle of Jerusalem is longer and bloodier than the first, but once again the crusaders prevail. The holiest city in Christianity is theirs.  And the Fatimids realize it as well. Defeated twice by Bohemond’s army and quickly losing their control over their northern territories to the other crusaders, they retreat from the holy land, surrendering it to the crusaders.  As the most powerful crusader lord and the conqueror of Jerusalem itself, it is no surprise that the crusade’s leaders – and Pope Anacletus himself – offer Bohemond another crown, this one as King of Jerusalem.  Bohemond refuses, however. As pleased as he is with the crusade’s success, he is wary of having to split his attentions between two distant kingdoms, one populated by ever-rebellious vassals and the other located in a hostile land, surrounded by enemies. Instead, he asks that the honour be given to his eldest son, who is duly crowned King Robert of Jerusalem.  The young kingdom is in a precarious position, but the promise of further aid from Europe in general and Sicily in particular offers it some protection against Arab reconquest. Whether it is enough to preserve the crusader state remains to be seen, however.  King Bohemond returns to Sicily triumphantly and with renewed respect and goodwill on the part of his vassals. He wastes no time in spending it, however, issuing a series of decrees restraining the power of the nobility even further, concentrating as much power as possible in the hands of the court in Palermo.  Predictably, this goes over very poorly with the Norman nobility, though none yet have the courage to stand up to the hero of the crusade.  Bohemond, for his part, is unfazed by the resentment borne by his vassals. When not attending to matters of state, he spends his time surveying the magnificent gardens that surround his palaces in Palermo, thoroughly enjoying every moment of his rule. 
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Apr 11, 2013 06:58
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Well, that was significantly more successful than expected. Time to see if your son manages to gently caress it up!
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Apr 11, 2013 08:03
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Seriously. I was expecting our forces to get ripped to shreds, and instead we ripped theirs to shreds. And we did it quite quickly as an added bonus. Perhaps now that we effectively control the Holy City, we can focus on matters closer to home.
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Apr 11, 2013 08:07
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Dr. Snark posted:Seriously. I was expecting our forces to get ripped to shreds, and instead we ripped theirs to shreds. And we did it quite quickly as an added bonus. It actually wasn't as quick as it seems. I cut down on a bunch of unnecessary small battles and sieges to streamline things a bit. That said, yes, I was pretty surprised at the success we had. I was not expecting any real success going in, but I got very lucky. That first battle was a pretty drat miraculous victory, and the other crusaders were much more useful than usual.
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Apr 11, 2013 08:18
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Hell yeah. From now on we should go on every Crusade possible.
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Apr 11, 2013 08:23
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Told you. Of course, once Robert Inherits Sicily (or dies of Great Pox and you inherit Jerusalem), you'll have the same problem you did before. Is the "Be able to choose who gets the crown in a crusade" a Wiz invention? Because that's a really good idea.
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Apr 11, 2013 08:36
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Veryslightlymad posted:Is the "Be able to choose who gets the crown in a crusade" a Wiz invention? Because that's a really good idea. Yeah, it's quite nice, and probably one of my favourite things about CK2+ (and there are a lot of things I like about CK2+).
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Apr 11, 2013 08:41
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Oh man, that was so bloody. These battles were really lucky, it's great when they work out like this. I was hoping I'd get to suggest to grant the kingdom of Jerusalem's titles to bishops, but this is fine. Hopefully it won't get devastated in the decades to come.
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Apr 11, 2013 09:16
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I give it a week.
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Apr 11, 2013 09:22
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Romans 8:31 - "If God is with us, who shall be against us?" How could anyone have questioned the outcome of our This early game is shaping up for a very interesting LP! The choice to give the crown to a relative is a nice addition too.
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Apr 11, 2013 09:24
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Since this is CK2+ the nobility of the Kingdom of Jerusalem is going to be made up of sons and uncles of the landed nobility who helped in the crusade so there might be some interesting characters in there.
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Apr 11, 2013 10:08
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Who was the 'capable relative' that it offered as alternative to hand off Jerusalem to?
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Apr 11, 2013 22:31
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Yvonmukluk posted:Who was the 'capable relative' that it offered as alternative to hand off Jerusalem to? Believe it or not, a literal imbecile (as in, he has the "imbecile" trait and most of his stats are 0). His name is Geoffrey d'Hauteville and he's the son of Bohemond's cousin the Count of Foggia. As amusing as the adventures of the imbecile-king of Jerusalem sound, I decided against it.
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Apr 11, 2013 23:19
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...THAT went well. ...Well then. Um. I suppose it might makes sense now to go after North Africa to maybe join everything up.
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Apr 12, 2013 00:53
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You should offer the save to someone so we can see the Adventures of the Imbecile-King of Jerusalem. 
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Apr 12, 2013 02:12
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State of the World (1100) In the British Isles, the conflict between Norman, Norwegian, and Anglo-Saxon started decades ago after the death of Edward the Confessor still simmers. After Harald the Conqueror’s victorious invasion, the English realm was ruled by his family until 1083, when Robert of Normandy, William’s son, succeeded where his father failed and conquered England for himself.  England is currently ruled by Robert’s son Armand, barely more than a child.  His position is precarious, due in large part to large swathes of England still ruled by Havard, Harald’s grandson.  To the south, France is ruled by Renaud “Priest-Hater”, an angry, cynical man unpopular with his vassals.  In Scandinavia and the Baltic region, paganism continues to retreat in the face of Christianity.  Most notable is the conversion of the Wends, led by Krutoj, who has been granted the title Duke of Mecklenburg since his conversion. His reluctance to fully Christianize his realm has led to conflict with the Church, however.  Further east, the Rurikovich princes continue to fight among themselves, sandwiched between pagans on each side.  Vsevolod of Kiev, the most powerful Russian prince, is currently imprisoned by his cousin, the Prince of Ryazan.  The Iberian peninsula has seen a stalemate between Christians and Muslims in the past few decades, with most of the conflict being between members of the same religion. Galicia has inherited Navarra, while the Almoravids are encroaching ever further on the smaller Muslims taifas.  Of note is the King of Leon, formerly the Count of Valladolid, who usurped the Jimena dynasty in that kingdom.  In the Holy Roman Empire, decades of misrule have seen its borders shrink, most of the non-German vassals having abandoned the sinking ship.  The young emperor will no doubt try to regain some of his realm’s former glory, but whether he is up to the task remains to be seen.  Nearby, the Kingdom of Hungary may be on the brink of civil war now that the king and several of his lords have adopted what the Pope denounces as heretical beliefs.  In the eastern Mediterranean, the Byzantines have all but lost their hold on Anatolia thanks to the rise of the Sultanate of Rum.  Like the Germans, the Greeks are ruled by a young emperor whose competence many question, especially given the monumental task that rebuilding his empire would be.  Arslan Shah is not a leader on the level of his father, however, and it will be a difficult task to maintain his grip on a kingdom populated chiefly by Greek Christians.  But his position could improve substantially when his father, Alp Arslan, finally dies. The Seljuk ruler is expected to leave his empire to his most accomplished son, and a united realm would be immensely powerful.  Further south, the Miaphysite kingdoms of Africa are experiencing vastly different fates, as the Nubians seem doomed to be absorbed into the greater Abyssinian realm. The African Jews of Semien, however, have managed to hold their own.  Ledger Religions  The Most Prestigious Characters  The Most Pious Characters  The Largest States  The Largest Armies  World Map 
Viscardus fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 06:25
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Whoa. We might see a Muslim empire form. Something I've never seen, with the exception of the Mongols converting to Islam. That's a refreshing change of pace.
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Apr 12, 2013 07:26
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Well, Provencal Italy looks like it had a short shelf life 
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Apr 12, 2013 09:05
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We are pious as gently caress.
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Apr 12, 2013 09:14
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RabidWeasel posted:Well, Provencal Italy looks like it had a short shelf life They, along with Pereyaslavl and Bohemia, were in the middle of a civil war (not an independence revolt, though) when the world map screenshot was taken, so it's actually a little misleading. I tried to put the names over the territory they actually control to give a rough idea of what they own.
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Apr 12, 2013 09:32
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Sorry if this is a core feature of CK2+ I've just not seen before, but Is Arslan's wife supposed to have had her eyes put out or something? 
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Apr 12, 2013 11:03
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Serpentis posted:Is Arslan's wife supposed to have had her eyes put out or something? There's a really low chance for illness to make you blind, it's presumably that that happened to her. Of course the trait automatically assumes the worst and as a result you've got kids with gaping voids in their faces the world over (or at least you did when the chance for illness to cause blindness was bugged to be rather high a few CK2+ patches ago).
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Apr 12, 2013 11:15
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Mirdini posted:There's a really low chance for illness to make you blind, it's presumably that that happened to her. Of course the trait automatically assumes the worst and as a result you've got kids with gaping voids in their faces the world over (or at least you did when the chance for illness to cause blindness was bugged to be rather high a few CK2+ patches ago). It's not exactly that; the portrait effect was added with Legacy of Rome, which gave Byzantine nobles the ability to blind and castrate prisoners. In a way, yes, it assumes the worst, but the worst is that the character had their eyes gouged out, not that their illness literally turned their eyes into black holes.
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Apr 12, 2013 11:23
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Veryslightlymad posted:Whoa. We might see a Muslim empire form. Something I've never seen, with the exception of the Mongols converting to Islam. That's a refreshing change of pace. Cycloneman fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 12:25
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YF-23 posted:It's not exactly that; the portrait effect was added with Legacy of Rome, which gave Byzantine nobles the ability to blind and castrate prisoners. In a way, yes, it assumes the worst, but the worst is that the character had their eyes gouged out, not that their illness literally turned their eyes into black holes. Yeah that's what I meant/was implying, forgot to explicitly state it there - sorry if I confused anyone.
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Apr 12, 2013 14:04
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Chapter Eight: Bohemond the Great (1100-1109) As Palermo grows, it proves to be a centre of learning an innovation in Western Europe, in part due to the cultural links to Greece and the Muslim world.  His military goals achieved for now, Bohemond turns his eye toward diplomacy, arranging the marriage of one of his daughters to the young Holy Roman Emperor.  The tolerant religious policies in Sicily serve to encourage the growth and prosperity of Jewish communities on the island.  King Bohemond turns his eye back to war quickly, however, when he hears news that Ancona has been sacked by mercenaries in the employ of the Republic of San Marino.  Flimsy as it may be, it provides enough justification for a Norman invasion on the pretence of protecting the citizens of Ancona.  Bohemond quickly assembles a small army and marches north.  Left defenceless in the wake of the sack by San Marino, there is little resistance to the Norman occupation.  The city and surrounding coast are quickly annexed, a great boon to Sicily’s ever-expanding trade networks.  Shortly after arriving home in Palermo, Bohemond finds out that he has been made a widower for the second time.  This means that his second son, William, is the new King of Castille, despite his young age.  Bohemond mourns his wife, but wastes little time finding other women to occupy his attention.  Not long after, word reaches Sicily that the unpopular King Renaud of France has been deposed and killed.  It leads to another advantageous match – this time to Princess Marquesa, the widow of King Renaud and the younger sister of Bohemond’s last wife, Margarita.  Marquesa proves to be more intelligent and capable than her older sister, but also much more difficult to get along with.  Bohemond is distracted once again from his domestic responsibilities by an urgent plea for help from his son in Jerusalem. After licking their wounds, the Fatimids have launched another attack on the crusader state.  Bohemond wastes no time sailing to the Levant once again to relive his finest hour.  He meets the Fatimid army once again, this time further north. He has a slight numerical advantage this time, but it is as large a battle as any that occurred during the crusade.  And it goes the same way. The Arab army is crushed and routed, and the caliph is forced to retreat in disgrace, his dreams of reconquering Jerusalem dashed.  King Bohemond, for his part, is celebrated once again as the protector of the Holy Land, and many take to calling him Bohemond the Great. 
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Apr 13, 2013 01:19
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Wow. I can't believe that we were able to slaughter that Fatimid army down to the last man and only taking a fraction of their casualties in return. I doubt that they'll be bothering us again any time soon.
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Apr 13, 2013 01:24
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Extra bonus image for people who noticed whose claim the war was for: Not pictured: his son Placeholder ibn Placeholder Placeholderid (and his son of the same name).
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Apr 13, 2013 01:27
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I was literally about to point out the "Placeholder" in this image: Because that's .......... something else.
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Apr 13, 2013 01:32
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