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DiscoJ posted:It's no surprise that people want something new rather than a relatively expensive rerelease. $15 total that gets you two excellent games, bundled with the best netcode currently existing for fighting games - which needs to be licensed externally. Yup, those greedy bastards~ 95% of anyone who 'wanted something new' is a jackass who probably hasn't even played Hunter or Savior - and I doubt Capcom of today could make a better game than Savior, even without worrying about market forces/demands/influence.
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Apr 12, 2013 05:47
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I think the price is perfectly reasonable, but the fact is that 95% percent of people who aren't "into" fighting games are going to see it as way too much for "old" games. This group needs to be appealed to if a game is going to move a lot of units.
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Apr 12, 2013 14:10
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I think we're already well over the saturation point. Every time a new game comes out or an old game is re-released, I know that it's going to get a few weeks to two months, maximum, of play time in my scene before everyone goes back to SSF4 and Marvel. I don't feel much satisfaction from learning a game in the early stages and having everyone stop playing it by the time we start figuring it out. After SFxT flopped I don't really know what can replace SSF4 and Marvel other than SSF5 and Marvel 4.
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Apr 12, 2013 14:23
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Are there any mod boards out there other than the piiwii that have explicit wii/wii u support (acting as a classic controller instead of a gamecube controller)
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Apr 12, 2013 14:29
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I didn't buy Darkstalkers simply because I'm done buying downloadable games for consoles until the next generation arrives. If capcom sent all of their classic collections to Steam I'd be all over them.
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Apr 12, 2013 14:31
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HKR posted:I didn't buy Darkstalkers simply because I'm done buying downloadable games for consoles until the next generation arrives. If capcom sent all of their classic collections to Steam I'd be all over them. Yeah, if Capcom(and/or SNK) released the equivalent of ggpo for PC with a monthly subscription fee, I would probably pay for it for a long time.
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Apr 12, 2013 15:02
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HKR posted:I didn't buy Darkstalkers simply because I'm done buying downloadable games for consoles until the next generation arrives. If capcom sent all of their classic collections to Steam I'd be all over them. Yeah this is pretty much it right here. New consoles aren't backwards compatible and capcom still doesn't want to release anything on pc. Also I feel like darkstalkers was released out of nowhere, I had no idea when it was coming out and didn't see much marketing for it. It just kind of came out with no fanfare I feel.
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Apr 12, 2013 18:04
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How much playtime do you expect to get from a $15 game such that only getting to play it for a year (and also forever after that, though you may be faced with the horrifying proposition of having to play a game you like on the console for which it was released) becomes a dealbreaker?
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Apr 12, 2013 18:12
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Brosnan posted:How much playtime do you expect to get from a $15 game such that only getting to play it for a year (and also forever after that, though you may be faced with the horrifying proposition of having to play a game you like on the console for which it was released) becomes a dealbreaker? Nope, sorry, pack it all in. I'm building a bonfire for current gen consoles and games, you guys want in? You might as well toss them all in now, why wait until the last minute? I mean, the lines'll be huge once the new consoles are out, so might as well get it out of the way.
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Apr 12, 2013 18:15
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systran posted:I think we're already well over the saturation point. Every time a new game comes out or an old game is re-released, I know that it's going to get a few weeks to two months, maximum, of play time in my scene before everyone goes back to SSF4 and Marvel. I don't feel much satisfaction from learning a game in the early stages and having everyone stop playing it by the time we start figuring it out. Didn't SFxT sell more than UMVC and AE Disc versions of SSF4? I know it sold a lot less than they expected, but I don't think it was a failure in that it made no profit whatsoever.
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Apr 12, 2013 18:21
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Brosnan posted:How much playtime do you expect to get from a $15 game such that only getting to play it for a year (and also forever after that, though you may be faced with the horrifying proposition of having to play a game you like on the console for which it was released) becomes a dealbreaker? In practice no one is going to pull out their old consoles to play this, and online will probably be dead then. I think it's a problem with all multiplayer console games, not unique to this one. Microsoft/Sony may even shut down their servers, as I believe they did with Xbox 1(Tell me if I'm wrong). There's never going to be a dynastic multiplayer console game like CS 1.6, dota, starcraft, etc. I still paid $15 for this and hope Capcom releases more old titles(get on with the cvs2oe already), but I would be infinitely more pleased by a PC release and probably would pay more for it.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:04
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MrJacobs posted:Didn't SFxT sell more than UMVC and AE Disc versions of SSF4? I know it sold a lot less than they expected, but I don't think it was a failure in that it made no profit whatsoever. It sold over a million copies in the first week, which is 7 jillion short of what they needed to sell to consider it a financial success.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:05
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Jeffrey posted:Microsoft/Sony may even shut down their servers, as I believe they did with Xbox 1(Tell me if I'm wrong). Xbox 1 game servers did get shut down, but it was several years after the 360 came out. E: 5 years after to be precise.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:10
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Jmcrofts posted:Xbox 1 game servers did get shut down, but it was several years after the 360 came out. Well I wanna play Phantom Dust and I can't so phooey.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:18
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MrJacobs posted:Didn't SFxT sell more than UMVC and AE Disc versions of SSF4? I know it sold a lot less than they expected, but I don't think it was a failure in that it made no profit whatsoever. I don't know poo poo about sales figures but I am pretty sure the game failed based on how fast the price dropped. I was actually speaking about its failure more in terms of how quickly the competitive scene stopped caring about it. A fighting game has to displace the existing most popular fighting game in order to last competitively. There are a very limited amount of places for games that will continue to be played competitively for more than a year. For 2D-fighters, SSF4 and Marvel have that genre locked down. There are some spaces left open for 3D-fighters, maybe there is room for like two big 3D-fighters? Tekken and Soul Calibur, I guess? This explains why Virtua Fighter, despite being a good game, can't get big outside Japan. SF4 came after a five-year plus fighting game drought, so it didn't have to beat anything. This is probably why, despite its many faults, it did so well. Marvel 3 appealed to the other end of the spectrum for 2D-Fighters: SSF4 is "boring" and footsie-based, Marvel is flashy and very different from SSF4 even though it's a 2D-Fighter. Any time a new 2D-Fighter tries to break in and be a game that is played competitively, it fails if it can't just displace either SSF4 or Marvel 3. I think this is why so many people sighed when they announced SFxT. No one knew what it was trying to do. Was it meant to replace SSF4? If not, why the gently caress were they making it? It was too boring to replace Marvel, but the fundamental fighting game stuff of it was lovely feeling and you couldn't even punish people rolling out of the corner until they re-released it for $60 after more than a year. The idea of poking with standing light kick and buffering into standing strong, which you then mash into a tag-in is so inherently not fun and uninteresting that I almost doubt that Capcom can make a good fighting game ever again. It's also painfully boring to watch. Skullgirls, the new Mortal Kombat, Persona 4, that superhero game, KOF13, SOME of these were okay games but they weren't enough to displace the games that already are filling the market. Capcom needs to find a way to milk money out of the new games they make which actually intend to replace SF and Marvel. Gems in SFxT seemed like an experiment to monetize beyond initial game sales, but it was a totally awful idea. When a $20 (how much did it cost?) DLC for new characters and more money for a bunch of gems didn't work, they just re-released it for full price. They can't combine these business models; it needs to be one or the other. I think they should really consider making a game either free or under $15 with 6-8 base characters, then selling each character and costume individually like League of Legends. The idea of paying $60 for a slightly re-balanced game is perfectly okay for people like us that are really into a game, but casual players will not pay that. The biggest issue with this model is that every setup you bring to a meetup will basically have to have all the characters unlocked. It would be nice; though, if a casual player could be scrolling through PSN or Xbox Live and see a full fighting game for free on instant download. If he likes the initial eight characters he can buy more. If he thinks the game sucks then whatever. I honestly can't even fathom why a casual player would pay loving $60 for a fighting game. The value just is not there if you aren't going to get deep into the game. angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 19:55
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systran posted:A fighting game has to displace the existing most popular fighting game in order to last competitively. There are a very limited amount of places for games that will continue to be played competitively for more than a year. My eyes just sort of glazed over after reading that part.
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Apr 12, 2013 20:51
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KOF13, SFxT and Persona still have scenes. KOF and Persona are as not big as SF and Marvel because they're not SF and Marvel - That's just the way it is. You really can't expect any fighting game to be as big (competitive scene wise) as Capcom games in America. And regarding "that super hero game", do you mean Injustice?? That barely just came out so I don't see what you mean. Also, SFxT was abandoned because it sucked. After the patch it seems like it might develop a scene again.
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Apr 12, 2013 21:09
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quote:I think they should really consider making a game either free or under $15 with 6-8 base characters, then selling each character and costume individually like League of Legends. That is probably the worst comparison you could make, dude. I don't even play dotalikes and I'm aware of completely hosed the balance of that game is because of their model.
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Apr 12, 2013 22:54
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systran posted:I honestly can't even fathom why a casual player would pay loving $60 for a fighting game. The value just is not there if you aren't going to get deep into the game.
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Apr 12, 2013 22:58
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If you enjoy a game a lot for like 15 hours, I don't really see how that's any worse than buying any other game. If you enjoy the time, you enjoy it. The only game I've bought and not put that kind of time into was SC5 in recent years. Everything else I've played around with for at least 20+ hours, even the games I never pick up. If a random person gets similar enjoyment out of that, works for me. Plus, the Netherrealm games seem to pack enough content to make them worthwhile to any random person, so I think those are worth 60 dollars. Same with P4A.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:02
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Most 60 dollar games only give you about 6 or 7 hours of content. Even a super casual player can get that much time into a fighter over a weekend.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:10
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Gutcruncher posted:Most 60 dollar games only give you about 6 or 7 hours of content. Even a super casual player can get that much time into a fighter over a weekend. The only genre where this is true is FPSes, which I suspect make up for it by having a much higher rate of online participation.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:11
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flatluigi posted:That is probably the worst comparison you could make, dude. I don't even play dotalikes and I'm aware of completely hosed the balance of that game is because of their model. Yes, it's very obvious you don't play. The balance isn't affected at all; you can unlock everything without ever spending real money. The only thing you can't buy with in-game earned currency are cosmetic skins. I made the comparison because it's a game with a high skill ceiling that is very easy to get your friends into, primarily because it's free. The longer LoL is successful as a competitive game, the more money they will make due to their model (people really love buying skins and impatient people just HAVE TO have the newest characters and will spend real money on them). With SSF4, the longer the game is successful, the longer the people who already bought it get to play it for free. Capcom is then forced to release a balance update and charge at least half of full price for it. I don't think Capcom needs to directly copy the LoL model, but they should look at why it works and how it has earned Riot a shitload of money for a game that you can download and start playing for free. I'm sure they looked at it when deciding to implement gems, but that was a very misguided and a totally lovely idea. I think I have very high standards as far as what is worth playing. I don't feel that Persona 4, for example, has a scene that is worth investing time into. If you live in an area where there is a significant Persona 4 or KOF13 scene, then it might be different for you. I think it's safe to say that if you travel around the world, any FG scene you find is going to have people playing SF4 (and in the US Marvel 3), Persona 4 or other niche games you will find many scenes where no one plays them.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:17
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In a fit of enthusiasm a couple years back, I picked up MvC3 for the PS3. I sucked at it, really badly! But I enjoyed it enough to invest in Fightstick, specifically the MvC3 Tournament Edition stick by Madcatz. Anyways, I'm in college now, and don't have my PS3, but still have my stick with me, and up until recently it's been gathering dust. I recently picked up Guilty Gear from GOG because it was cheap, and hey, why not. But the question I've got now is: is there any way to use the stick with my PC, or am I stuck using pad?
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Apr 12, 2013 23:18
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The Lord of Hats posted:In a fit of enthusiasm a couple years back, I picked up MvC3 for the PS3. I sucked at it, really badly! But I enjoyed it enough to invest in Fightstick, specifically the MvC3 Tournament Edition stick by Madcatz. Anyways, I'm in college now, and don't have my PS3, but still have my stick with me, and up until recently it's been gathering dust. I recently picked up Guilty Gear from GOG because it was cheap, and hey, why not. But the question I've got now is: is there any way to use the stick with my PC, or am I stuck using pad? Just plug it in! Ps3 sticks usually work, but for some reason some chipsets wont let it. Doesnt hurt just to see.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:23
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I tried googling around for you but couldn't find anything more recent than 2011. I vaguely remember that I had to download some tool to make it work, but you probably want to google around yourself because you have to factor in what version of windows and motherboard you have.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:25
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systran posted:Yes, it's very obvious you don't play. The balance isn't affected at all... This is wrong and as terrible as it is for a dotalike, it's an even dumber idea for a fighting game. Like, pretty much everything you've posted recently here has been wrong.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:26
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Gutcruncher posted:Just plug it in! Ps3 sticks usually work, but for some reason some chipsets wont let it. Doesnt hurt just to see. The computer recognizes the inputs, but I can't seem to get that to actually work in game. Motininjoy doesn't recognize the stick as a controller. systran posted:I tried googling around for you but couldn't find anything more recent than 2011. I vaguely remember that I had to download some tool to make it work, but you probably want to google around yourself because you have to factor in what version of windows and motherboard you have. I figured it'd be something like this. Oh boy!
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Apr 12, 2013 23:28
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The Lord of Hats posted:In a fit of enthusiasm a couple years back, I picked up MvC3 for the PS3. I sucked at it, really badly! But I enjoyed it enough to invest in Fightstick, specifically the MvC3 Tournament Edition stick by Madcatz. Anyways, I'm in college now, and don't have my PS3, but still have my stick with me, and up until recently it's been gathering dust. I recently picked up Guilty Gear from GOG because it was cheap, and hey, why not. But the question I've got now is: is there any way to use the stick with my PC, or am I stuck using pad? Two things: One, the Madcatz PS3 PCB is badly designed, and doesn't work with OHCI chipsets, only UHCI. Also some hubs will freak it out. If you're trying it on a hub, etc, and don't know what kind of chipset your USB controller is, try plugging into a different port / root ports on your system. If you have an incompatible controller, you can try buying a cheap (known working) USB PCI card or similar. Separately, does that Guilty Gear version even support gamepads/controllers? That might be your issue, in which case you'll want something like joy2key to make your joystick inputs emulate keypresses.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:35
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Brosnan posted:This is wrong and as terrible as it is for a dotalike, it's an even dumber idea for a fighting game. In LoL you get points for playing games. You can spend those points to unlock poo poo. After playing for a while you have spent enough points to have everything you need to play competitively. I don't really want to bother arguing, but don't just dismiss everything someone says with "This is wrong" when you have nothing to back it up with. Most of what I have been saying is just my opinion, if you want to disagree with it then just say your opinion rather than a contentless "you are wrong."
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Apr 12, 2013 23:35
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systran posted:the fundamental fighting game stuff of it was lovely feeling and you couldn't even punish people rolling out of the corner until they re-released it for $60 after more than a year. Also full price is fine for a fighting game. They just have to put in a proper story mode like Mortal Kombat. Maybe some mini-games. It's just harder to get more money out of a fighting game, than a game like Gears of War or CoD, where the people interested in the multiplayer buy season passes to get maps and online support for the year. What could they sell in a season pass for fighting games? More stages and costumes? Additional characters? Both kinda suck compared to maps for different reasons(though I would prefer new stages and costumes).
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Apr 12, 2013 23:35
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Ah, I hadn't realized the big SFxT patch was free  I don't think I buy enough games to put myself into the casual game buyer's shoes. If I spend $60 on a game, I want to hugely enjoy it for the short time I play it, or get hundreds of hours of play out of it. I can see that casual players buy fighting games for $60, but it seems odd to me. It's worth $60 for me because I know I'll play the poo poo out of a fighting game, but I just don't see the $60 value for a casual player.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:40
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systran posted:In LoL you get points for playing games. You can spend those points to unlock poo poo. After playing for a while you have spent enough points to have everything you need to play competitively. I don't really want to bother arguing, but don't just dismiss everything someone says with "This is wrong" when you have nothing to back it up with. Most of what I have been saying is just my opinion, if you want to disagree with it then just say your opinion rather than a contentless "you are wrong." It takes dozens of games to get a single character for each of the 100 characters, not to mention 17-30k ip per runepage
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Apr 12, 2013 23:40
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RickoniX posted:It takes dozens of games to get a single character for each of the 100 characters, not to mention 17-30k ip per runepage You definitely have to farm IP to play competitively, or you can pay less than $60. Either way it is a model that allows you to start playing for free, then play more for free to get stuff, or pay a reasonable amount of money if you don't want to wait and grind IP. Usually by the time you have played enough to want to be competitive, you have farmed enough IP to have unlocked some characters for each role and appropriate full rune pages.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:44
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systran posted:I think I have very high standards as far as what is worth playing. You play SF4. If you like a game, you can grow the scene for it and put the effort in. At its height, my main game had barely 100 people playing it. Melty was never huge, but the scene was really healthy all the way up to PS2 MBAA, in the US and internationally. AH3 is a really niche game these days, but there's a bunch of TOs that keep it alive on the East Coast. Tons of people still play ST. MK has a gigantic loving community, they're just super insular and don't play much else. Smash, despite all the people complaining, is at EVO. You're whining that SF4 and Marvel 3 are too entrenched ot change, but making no effort to grow the community of other FGs you might like. Congrats, you are the worst kind of 09er.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:47
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systran posted:In LoL you get points for playing games. You can spend those points to unlock poo poo. After playing for a while you have spent enough points to have everything you need to play competitively. I don't really want to bother arguing, but don't just dismiss everything someone says with "This is wrong" when you have nothing to back it up with. Most of what I have been saying is just my opinion, if you want to disagree with it then just say your opinion rather than a contentless "you are wrong." Something like 300 wins and I don't know how many losses and grinding via bot games hasn't gotten me enough to have all the runes and champions I need to feel remotely comfortable playing competitively in League. It takes way too loving long to get a decent amount of IP in League, which is intentional to make people want to just spend money instead (this works and is why they are making a profit). This only works because they have a shitload of content by now with something like 110 heroes (you are not given a single one for free) and a shitload of runes that cost way too much and are required to make your early game as optimal as possible. To put this in the context of a fighting game, it is literally SFxT's gem system, or even worse if you're given good gems to default to in SFxT, I'm not sure. Problem is, you have to make something dumb like the gem system which didn't work out, or make a shitload of characters, which is a lot harder with fighting games than it is with a MOBA. Characters would have to cost way too much per character to scrape anywhere near what League manages for the amount of work it takes per character. This isn't even touching the loving minefield that is League's tendency to make new characters that are just better mish-mashes of older characters (or sometimes worse). Microtransactions are probably the future, but they don't translate 1:1 between MOBAs and Fighting Games. systran posted:You definitely have to farm IP to play competitively, or you can pay less than $60. You cannot buy IP for money (only IP boosts) and runes can only be purchased with IP. It's a bad system that gives them something to point to to say "no, it's not pay to win because everyone has to spend IP on runes", which isn't true because people who spend money on champions can pool all of their IP into runes.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:48
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Fayk posted:Two things: One, the Madcatz PS3 PCB is badly designed, and doesn't work with OHCI chipsets, only UHCI. Also some hubs will freak it out. If you're trying it on a hub, etc, and don't know what kind of chipset your USB controller is, try plugging into a different port / root ports on your system. If you have an incompatible controller, you can try buying a cheap (known working) USB PCI card or similar. Well, poo poo. That's another layer of stupid complexity. My computer uses Intel, which a quick googling suggests *would* be UHCI. The fact that my computer recognizes the inputs is encouraging in that regard, though I don't know what that actually means. You're right that the game might be the problem; I can get it to recognize the pad, but all of the buttons are completely scrambled.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:49
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Brosnan posted:This is wrong and as terrible as it is for a dotalike, it's an even dumber idea for a fighting game. Yeah the only reason LoL isn't unplayable competitively is they give them all the heroes in tournaments. It is by no means a fair competitive game for everyone else. It is worse than gems by a long shot.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:53
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interrodactyl posted:
I've been playing competitive FG's since Guilty Gear XX #R, so cool random assumption. I'm also not complaining that SF4 and Marvel are entrenched, I'm just pointing out a tendency. I move a lot and because I play SF4, I can move and play it wherever I live. That's my reason for sticking with it. I live in a college town now and yes, if someone really likes a game it can get some play in. Our scene has like ten core people with usually 5-8 per meetup. The pool of players just isn't big enough to allow for tons of different games to get play. quote:Something like 300 wins and I don't know how many losses and grinding via bot games hasn't gotten me enough to have all the runes and champions I need to feel remotely comfortable playing competitively in League I think I will concede this point. I have just played LoL casually since beta and never felt a rush to get IP, so my perception is probably warped. I got all the runes I needed a very long time ago and I have enough characters to play any role. I never spent any real money on the game. I don't know how FG's could adopt a similar model, but I think there is merit to the idea of a lower entry point supported by a sane amount of DLC rather than $60 for a game. The idea doesn't appeal to me personally because I am fine paying $60 for a game that I will play five years, but it seems like Capcom is struggling to make money on FG's.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:58
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The Lord of Hats posted:Well, poo poo. That's another layer of stupid complexity. My computer uses Intel, which a quick googling suggests *would* be UHCI. The fact that my computer recognizes the inputs is encouraging in that regard, though I don't know what that actually means. Depending what you mean 'scrambled', there's no logic/rhyme/reason for what that controller will call button1/button2/button3, so if the buttons 'work', you'll just have to remap all the keys to a sane layout.
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Apr 13, 2013 00:00
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