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bef posted:Is Twilight Princess worth playing? Everytime I load it up (in the beginning forest) I just want to play Links awakening. Twilight Princess is Ocarina of Time with everything amped up to 11. The dungeons are bigger and better, but the poo poo you have to do in between them is also a lot longer and the first half the game on the whole is pretty terrible. It picks up after you get the Master Sword, but it's a long ride to get there. I highly suggest you at least try it (with the GC version if you can get it), but it's a pretty mediocre entry all things considered.
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Apr 20, 2013 03:46
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Yeah I'm playing the GC version right now because non-SS wii controls just sounds terrible. I guess I'll give it a shot then, thank you SA informants. I'm just itching for some Zelda and the well's running dry.
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Apr 20, 2013 03:50
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Best item in Twilight Princess? The boar. 
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Apr 20, 2013 04:08
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bef posted:Is Twilight Princess worth playing? Everytime I load it up (in the beginning forest) I just want to play Links awakening. It's the best Zelda in the last 10+ years.
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Apr 20, 2013 04:10
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Lurdiak posted:It's the best Zelda in the last 10+ years. You think it's better than Wind Waker? I'm really curious to hear your reasons.
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Apr 20, 2013 04:18
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Wind Waker is my perfect Zelda. It's got everything I like in the series. Ridiculously fun boss battles, plenty of exploring, quirky little towns, bizarre characters, fun items, and an emotional storyline. Seriously, what Ganondorf says at the end, it's heartbreaking. Twilight Princess is good, but not that good.
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Apr 20, 2013 04:23
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I just hope they make the Triforce hunt more meaningful in the HD version. That's what kills my motivation to replay WW. Most of the mini-dungeons (if you can even call them that...) for the charts sucked rear end. The 50 floor trial was pretty cool, and I liked the battle mini-dungeon, too. I wonder if that is where the majority of the cut content was.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:44
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Really if they made the game more difficult i'd consider purchasing. It always bugged me almost everything hit me for a quarter of a heart. GOAT IN!!!
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Apr 20, 2013 05:47
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Some Numbers posted:You think it's better than Wind Waker? I'm really curious to hear your reasons. I just find the world far more gripping and fun and I love the... well I'd hate to say "realistic"... but the slightly more granular and less cartoony approach to all the visuals and weapons. I really like how the Bokoblins ride the line between cartoony Zelda minions and tolkienesque orcish marauders in how they're presented. Also, sailing around for treasure and such in WW's endgame got real boring after a while. On a more personal note, I happen to think Midna is a really fun character, even eclipsing Tetra as an awesome sidekick, and I absolutely hated how Wind Waker's ending was basically "nah sorry that thing you kept wanting to do the whole game would be bad for some reason, back to the flooded, doomed status quo". TP isn't without its flaws, such as the very very rushed last act (which felt like an entire second overworld and series of dungeons got cut out of the game) and the fact that Ganon showed up completely unnecessarily at the end, or that stupid Rollgoal mini-game, or how some of the Wolf sections drag on, but I still see it as the better game by far. Also it kind of owns that this particular Link had a love interest that wasn't Zelda for once.
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Apr 20, 2013 05:53
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Supercar Gautier posted:I don't think the motion controls really worked well in concept OR execution. Exactly, it wasn't even 1:1 so what was the point? All of the sword slashes were do-able with a joystick direction and button press. The only things that were 1:1 were certain puzzles and aiming, neither of which really had any benefit by being 1:1. Oh, and being able to move the sword around and twist it which had absolutely no purpose. It also didn't help that trying to do fast motions would lead to wrong inputs unless you just did small nudges which completely defeats the whole point of the control scheme.
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Apr 20, 2013 06:06
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Uh, no it pretty much was 1:1. Also, fast motions worked just fine.
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Apr 20, 2013 06:12
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Dr Pepper posted:Uh, no it pretty much was 1:1. Not this again....
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Apr 20, 2013 06:32
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Dr Pepper posted:Uh, no it pretty much was 1:1. I was really impressed by how responsive and fluid the motion controls were in Skyward Sword. My girlfriend and my Dad, neither of whom play many games, were able to pick it up and play pretty consistenylu, so it all seemed nice and intuitive to me. Then I went online and found out that heaps of people were having trouble doing even the basic stuff like thrusting the sword forward. It's a pity, but if they want to make Zelda more accessible they may have to dumb the controls back down in future I guess?
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Apr 20, 2013 06:35
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George Lazenby posted:It's a pity, but if they want to make Zelda more accessible they may have to dumb the controls back down in future I guess? Or actually make them work right in all conditions instead of just for a minority of people?
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Apr 20, 2013 06:41
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I think there's a simple solution to offer both motion and button control in Zelda U: make Zelda hard as balls again. Make players have to replicate Skyward Sword's emphasis on directional slicing using only b and the left analog stick. Take the enemy AI from Skyward sword and alter it slightly so that the change between vertical/horizontal/attack stance is more patterned, like Punch Out. Then, make the GamePad sword controls a variation of the past few 3D Zeldas: b to swing horizontally, b + step forward to swing vertically, hold b to charge a spin, hold b + tilt gamepad up for a skyward strike, hold b + thrust gamepad to stab. Z-targeting does not alter these controls. For those who choose to play with a Wiimote/Nunchuck, it controls like Skyward Sword with whatever tweaks they need to make. The GamePad sits upright on a table or on the player's lap, like Pikmin 3. Touchscreen stuff can be done by reaching out and tapping, or by pointing the Wiimote at the GamePad and using a cursor and motion-controlled stuff is moved to the Wiimote. For co-op, On player controls Link with a Wiimote/Nunchuck or a Pro Controller while the second controls the Navi/Midna/Fi type character with the GamePad.
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Apr 20, 2013 08:38
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Lurdiak posted:Or actually make them work right in all conditions instead of just for a minority of people? Is it really a minority though? I thought they worked great and I've seen a ton of other people who think they work great too. And most of the people who played the game probably aren't talking about it on the internet. I'm all for them offering it both ways though, as others have said you could pretty easily map all the sword swinging stuff to a traditional controller.
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Apr 20, 2013 08:42
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Dr Pepper posted:Uh, no it pretty much was 1:1. All sword swings were canned animations.
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Apr 20, 2013 09:50
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Midna is pretty much the best of Link's constant companions. She's got the snark of Tatl but much snarkier, and she's got extremely great character design, plus she's actually really useful and has a physical presence half the time. I dig her.
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Apr 20, 2013 10:23
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Sire Oblivion posted:All sword swings were canned animations. Better than a bunch of awkward motions. I wonder... Did anyone else develop a sort of axe chopping motion towards the end game to kill stuff with?  It looked retarded, but it was extremely effective once enemies' defenses were blown with a parry.
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Apr 20, 2013 13:44
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They should farm the next Zelda out to Koei, then we can play as all the characters we want. Really, who doesn't want to play Zelda Musou? Running around as Tingle, Kooloo-Limpah'ing huge crowds of moblins to death, that's a GotY contender right there.
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Apr 20, 2013 15:12
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:They should farm the next Zelda out to Koei, then we can play as all the characters we want. Really, who doesn't want to play Zelda Musou? Running around as Tingle, Kooloo-Limpah'ing huge crowds of moblins to death, that's a GotY contender right there. Honestly, I was surprised they didn't include Link in the Wii U release of Warriors Orochi 3. That would have been a nice boost for the release line-up, even if the rest of WO3 was the same (ie a bad port)
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Apr 20, 2013 18:33
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Edoraz posted:Better than a bunch of awkward motions. What's the point of having all the elaborate hardware to do 1:1 when the every attack is doable on a standard controller?
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Apr 20, 2013 19:37
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Sire Oblivion posted:What's the point of having all the elaborate hardware to do 1:1 when the every attack is doable on a standard controller? EXACTLY. There is no point!
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Apr 20, 2013 19:43
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Lurdiak posted:I just find the world far more gripping and fun and I love the... well I'd hate to say "realistic"... but the slightly more granular and less cartoony approach to all the visuals and weapons. I really like how the Bokoblins ride the line between cartoony Zelda minions and tolkienesque orcish marauders in how they're presented. Also, sailing around for treasure and such in WW's endgame got real boring after a while. Twilight Princess to me feels like two half finished games duct taped together. The first game exists pre-Master Sword, and is a dark, Majora's Mask esque story about transformation, isolation and imprisonment with its own villain and mechanics revolving around Wolf Link and other animals. The second game is, as said before, OoT cranked up to 11 with a storyline about destiny, the triumph of courage over arrogance and sacrifice, with bigger and better dungeons and really fun sword combat. The problem is that those games don't really come together to create a cohesive experience to me. Once you get the Master Sword, Wolf Link basically becomes nothing more than a situational hookshot, and the Twilight Realm is non-existent. Then of course you have Ganondorf sticking his big, crooked nose into things where it really doesn't fit in. I was super excited when Zant appeared but then it turns out he's nothing more than thinly veiled Aganihm.
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Apr 20, 2013 19:59
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I actually really liked Ganondorf being the fount of Zant's power. The Hylian government didn't give a drat and just kept throwing all their undesirables and criminals into this other dimension and then it finally turned around and bit them in the rear end. I did not, however, like Zant turning out to be a whiny, spastic 7-year-old.
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Apr 20, 2013 20:22
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Strange Matter posted:I was super excited when Zant appeared but then it turns out he's nothing more than thinly veiled Aganihm. Yeah, when Zant first appears and loving owns the Light Spirit right in front of you, then sideswipes Link's rear end and nearly kills Midna, I was psyched as poo poo to fight him. Then at the end he turns into a loving joke, almost literally, with his goofy face and flailing as his fight went on, just so we could get boring ol' Ganon again.
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Apr 20, 2013 20:23
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TwoPair posted:Yeah, when Zant first appears and loving owns the Light Spirit right in front of you, then sideswipes Link's rear end and nearly kills Midna, I was psyched as poo poo to fight him. Then at the end he turns into a loving joke, almost literally, with his goofy face and flailing as his fight went on, just so we could get boring ol' Ganon again. I dunno, I thought his fight was awesome. It was like fighting a 12 year old spoiled child if that child had the powers of a wizard.
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Apr 20, 2013 21:12
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I dunno, I thought his fight was awesome. It was like fighting a 12 year old spoiled child if that child had the powers of a wizard. Maybe, but you weren't fighting the guy who had been in all the cutscenes until that point.
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Apr 20, 2013 22:05
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My favorite dungeon will always be the City in the Sky in Twilight Princess. The music and atmosphere is just wonderful. And those Oocca or whatever they were called were awesome and weird and I love them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iWIhGymc9c
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Apr 20, 2013 22:24
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Sire Oblivion posted:What's the point of having all the elaborate hardware to do 1:1 when the every attack is doable on a standard controller? I wondered if Nintendo planned for 1:1 with the ability to do a swing at any degree of a 360 circle, but when they introduced enemies with "swing-directional" weakness it was frustrating to do a 15 degree swing and connect vs. whiffing on a swing that's slightly off. I could see even more frustration with 1:1 if you felt like you were hitting the right angle but in fact you were just outside their threshold of registering in a particular direction. I.e. the idea didn't end up being that fun in practice, so they reduced it to 8 directions instead. If people got frustrated at getting the Motion+ to go in one of those 8 directions, I can't imagine the frustration if the system was any "mushier" than that. No evidence for this, but I could see that being one explanation how it ended up what it was. Just because the Wii Sports 2 swordfighting game clearly supported a lot of fine-grained nuance in the swing, but Zelda ripped that out. I'd be surprised if they didn't at least try it/consider it.
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Apr 20, 2013 22:37
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I dunno, I thought his fight was awesome. It was like fighting a 12 year old spoiled child if that child had the powers of a wizard. So, Vaati? Same idea, if you think about. Just no dual blades.
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Apr 21, 2013 00:10
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I actually really liked Ganondorf being the fount of Zant's power. The Hylian government didn't give a drat and just kept throwing all their undesirables and criminals into this other dimension and then it finally turned around and bit them in the rear end. One of my favorite SA posts from when TP came out was when someone was talking about Zant and lamenting that the big badass you see the whole game turns out to be "Daffy loving Duck." And I couldn't agree more. That said, I still really enjoyed TP, but definitely acknowledge the things it did wrong that would make it better.
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Apr 21, 2013 01:28
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Some Numbers posted:You think it's better than Wind Waker? I'm really curious to hear your reasons. Twilight Princess has the best dungeons in the 3d Zeldas in number and challenge and introduces some cool new items to the series. Wind Waker has that terrible triforce treasure map quest that takes forever and makes me want to stop playing. But Wind Waker has more heart and originality, TP just felt like a shamelessly recycled OoT in some portions. TP is a bigger and better game though.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:01
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The only reason I don't want motion controls in the next Zelda game is because I want Links to be left handed again. If they do motion controls again, I would want it to control like Nintendo Lands Zelda game instead of Skyward Sword. It felt like you actually had 1:1 in it. Also add a left handed mode. Mirror the whole world if you have to, I don't care.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:31
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Twilight Princess is the best Zelda in the last decade. wind waker is 10 years and 1 month old
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Apr 21, 2013 02:57
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Ineffiable posted:
This is making me feel old  I remember looking at screenshots on Nintendo.com back before it even had a name.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:58
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Momomo posted:This is making me feel old Celda is ruining everything I like about the series! 
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Apr 21, 2013 03:33
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TechnoSyndrome posted:Is it really a minority though? I thought they worked great and I've seen a ton of other people who think they work great too. And most of the people who played the game probably aren't talking about it on the internet. Almost every review I've read states it works around 75%-90% of the time at most, and I've seen a lot of individuals talking about it working far less, including myself. It's clearly unreliable enough to impact most people's experience, even if just a little. I know there's always someone for whom it worked perfectly who goes on to suggest that everyone complaining is just too stupid to hold a wiimote correctly, but it's clear the technology isn't quite there and only works in optimal conditions (whatever those are). People have had similar issues with the Kinect and the Move, after all. It's a lot of hassle for something that's essentially useless to gameplay outside of playing Simon with blocking enemies. And Metal Gear Rising proves you sure as hell don't need motion control to incorporate precision slashes in your game.
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Apr 21, 2013 03:48
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Lurdiak posted:And Metal Gear Rising proves you sure as hell don't need motion control to incorporate precision slashes in your game. And people complained about it there as well? Maybe the take away is that people don't like precision slashing and want to worry about the other intricacies of combat, whatever they may be in whichever game.
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Apr 21, 2013 07:35
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I don't think I've seen a single complaint about the slashing in Metal Gear Rising, it works perfectly and is incredibly easy to pick up.
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Apr 21, 2013 08:12
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