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Something that bugged me, when Ymir was talking with Reiner, she mentioned something like him doing a good work in distracting Conny from realizing he knew the titan as human. Why? Why would she do this? One would assume that neither know each other as titans, so what reason would they have to keep such an important fact hushed up? Obviously if they were working for the success of titans they would benefit from trying to keep it hidden, but as far as they know, Ymir believes Reiner is on humanity's side, and likewise Reiner thinks of Ymir. Unless they both know they are working against humanity, they just don't the other person is a titan. In which case why would they think a human would be working against humanity?
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Apr 23, 2013 23:39
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Brought To You By posted:It comes from Ryner's flashback in chapter 39, and both his and Berthold's reaction to seeing Ymir's titan form in the following chapter 40. I think they meant that why do we think that Ymir is specifically a feral titan, instead of a rogue agent human titan or from a different human titan faction.
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Apr 23, 2013 23:40
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Medieval Medic posted:Something that bugged me, when Ymir was talking with Reiner, she mentioned something like him doing a good work in distracting Conny from realizing he knew the titan as human. Why? Why would she do this? One would assume that neither know each other as titans, so what reason would they have to keep such an important fact hushed up? Obviously if they were working for the success of titans they would benefit from trying to keep it hidden, but as far as they know, Ymir believes Reiner is on humanity's side, and likewise Reiner thinks of Ymir. Unless they both know they are working against humanity, they just don't the other person is a titan. In which case why would they think a human would be working against humanity? Reiner and Bertholdt and Annie. 
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Apr 23, 2013 23:43
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Autumncomet posted:I honestly took that as Ymir assuming Reiner was looking out for Connie since his behavior prior to that point was him being the dependable guy and then when Reiner asked for her help in doing so, she agreed for the sake of Connie's mental health. Keeping the fact from Connie doesn't mean keeping it from Hanji and the like. Going back to read it(Chap 38, page 30), I definitly was not remembering it very well. It was actually Ymir that tried to distract Connie, not Reiner, who was the one that acknowledged her efforts. Ymir wasn't even with the group that went to Connie's village, she only heard about it at the campfire. Still, I find it very interesting that the two characters who know humans can become titan's are lying to each other about it.
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Apr 23, 2013 23:54
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Brought To You By posted:It comes from Ryner's flashback in chapter 39, and both his and Berthold's reaction to seeing Ymir's titan form in the following chapter 40. Didn't Ymir also hint at being a titan who became human in her little speech about her past before transforming? Plus there's the titan who mentions Ymir's name out in the wilderness to the doomed soldier. Also I want to say that Ymir's Titan healing seemed to be the reverse of the human-titan's healing that we've seen so far.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:00
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Okay, I'll take a guess. The hairy titan is (one of) the original titans. They have the power to mutate humans into brainless titans. His origin is unknown. The human titans come from a village outside the wall, but the village is administered by the innermost circle of priests / government. It's a scientific experimental village aimed at defeating the titans by borrowing their powers. Remember that Eren's dad, who clearly knows how to make a human into a titan-pilot, regularly goes to the inner city for his work. There's many hints that a much higher level of science is present in the inner city, from the 3D gear to the titans in the walls. This is the secret that the priest feels is more important than his life--like the scouting legion, he is trying to find the best way to save humanity. Titan experimentation has to start at a very young age and is neither ethical nor kind. Sacrificing (other people) for the greater good is a theme of the series. Ymir is the result of a different line of experimentation--titan to human?--and goes berserk, eating Berthold and Ryner's families in an accident. During the chaos, Berthold, Ryner and Annie escape the camp and swear revenge on the larger humanity. They're young kids. During the attack on humanity however, they realize that the only way they can escape the titans and the inner city is to use the attack to blend in with regular humanity. So they are in hiding, refugees and not secret agents of a larger organization. While we're at it, they have no power to command titans. Titans just prioritize eating them over eating humans. (Scene where Eren picks up the rock and the titans ignore humans heading toward him). Ymir is different, though the talking titan that who thought the scout was ymir is more likely Ymir's friend / predecessor rather than a regular titan commanded by ymir. So our Titan-Pilots have to live among humanity, being neither human nor titan. Unfortunately, this can't explain why they want to kidnap Eren or why they attacked the second wall, five years later. Perhaps they also want to see what's in that basement.
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Apr 24, 2013 06:22
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The thing that confuses me the most about Ymir is that, unlike the other human titans, she has skin. The other all have had muscles and tendons showing, or have been covered in the armor plating, but Ymir is the odd one out in that respect. It singles her out as being different from the others, though we're not sure what yet.
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Apr 24, 2013 06:43
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Why the hell is Ryner and Bernthold so afraid to die in all these situations? Ymir flashback, the tower, etc. Their reactions are all real. The story even goes into their heads. Hell, Ryner was ready to suicide 5 chapters ago. Their motivations and reasoning are just so confusing to me. Edit: God I hope they didn't just have amnesia or something.
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Apr 24, 2013 09:01
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Those two weren't willing to become titans to save their own lives for some reason. Rather, they only ever transformed to achieve a goal.
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Apr 24, 2013 09:13
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Plus, becoming two of the most infamous titans in history without a good escape route would be a death sentence in its own way.
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Apr 24, 2013 10:52
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Who's the other person that Berthold swallows when he grabs Ymir and swallows her too?
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Apr 24, 2013 11:57
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Fiend Computer posted:The thing that confuses me the most about Ymir is that, unlike the other human titans, she has skin. The other all have had muscles and tendons showing, or have been covered in the armor plating, but Ymir is the odd one out in that respect. It singles her out as being different from the others, though we're not sure what yet. Pretty sure Eren Titan has all his tendons and muscles covered with skin too. He's just looks sort of like he's sporting a Glasgow smile lined with extra teeth.
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Apr 24, 2013 13:10
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Gyges posted:Pretty sure Eren Titan has all his tendons and muscles covered with skin too. He's just looks sort of like he's sporting a Glasgow smile lined with extra teeth. Titan Annie looked pretty "normal" also IIRC.
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Apr 24, 2013 16:28
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Serious Frolicking posted:Those two weren't willing to become titans to save their own lives for some reason. Rather, they only ever transformed to achieve a goal. Titan Annie, however, was willing to transform to save her skin. I really hope there's a reason for this, because it looks like a rare goof.
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Apr 24, 2013 16:32
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Nilbop posted:Titan Annie, however, was willing to transform to save her skin. I really hope there's a reason for this, because it looks like a rare goof. In the very beginning they (Marco and Reiner) talk like they can never go home again etc referring to it being destroyed by titans, but maybe it's because they were traitors in their own titan faction and wanted to stay hidden at all costs whereas Annie was not. Or, if not traitors than disgraced somehow or trying to get out of the faction? They were rumored to help Annie find Eren (by Armin's analysis).
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Apr 24, 2013 16:35
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They might have been unable to go home because Ymir killed the the third one. Suppose he was Titan royalty and they were grunts. How are they to explain that they are alive and junior is dead? Now they need something so the Titan chief doesn't use them as building material if they try to come home.
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Apr 24, 2013 17:31
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Serious Frolicking posted:Those two weren't willing to become titans to save their own lives for some reason. If we're talking about the scene in the tower, it seems more likely that they couldn't transform because they were underground and/or it was nighttime. Remember how Annie point-blank refused to go underground even for a second when she thought Armin and crew were onto her?
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Apr 24, 2013 17:34
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Could be that her Titan form might have been too weak from the lack of sunlight to break out of the rubble. The greatest weapon the humans can deploy against the Titan hordes, a giant sheet!
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Apr 24, 2013 17:39
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Mio Bison posted:If we're talking about the scene in the tower, it seems more likely that they couldn't transform because they were underground and/or it was nighttime. Remember how Annie point-blank refused to go underground even for a second when she thought Armin and crew were onto her? Yeah but all of those titans had no problem attacking them at night.
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Apr 24, 2013 18:12
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Breaky posted:Yeah but all of those titans had no problem attacking them at night.
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Apr 24, 2013 19:18
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Eiba posted:A fact that the explicitly said to be strange, if I remember right. They were pretty sure they'd be safe there for the night. Yes of course. It had always been understood that titans couldn't go underground / operate at night etc. Seems that the ones showing up around the hairy titan are different.
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Apr 24, 2013 19:24
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Eiba posted:A fact that the explicitly said to be strange, if I remember right. They were pretty sure they'd be safe there for the night. ^^ This The whole situation at the tower is very much outside the norm because Titans usually go inactive within 3 hours of the sun setting. The fact that they were besieged pretty much the whole night is a cause for alarm. Also the large beast like titan exhibited a lot of animal traits like fur and eyes that glow in the dark similar to animals. This might mean that if the unidentified titan is from outside the wall he may be a more refined form of titan that does not have the same limitations as the current titans. He may also have used the people from Coney's village to create new titans of the same model as he is. Which could be a problem if he plans to take the remaining human settlements because we will have fewer advantages over the already daunting titan forces.
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Apr 24, 2013 19:28
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Brought To You By posted:^^ This Another possibility is that the Hairy-Titan was simply preventing them from going into 'sleep mode' somehow. He certainly seemed to believe that he had some level of control over them and allot of those titans appeared to be unusually energetic. Titans going inactive after 3 hours without light may just be some sort of instinctual power-saving to prevent them from draining themselves to death when in the dark.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:11
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He did have some level of control over them. Remember when he smashed a smaller Titan's head when it disobeyed him, and all of the Titans backed off? When he tried to question that Scout about the 3D Gear.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:15
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Fun fact, that smaller titan shows up attacking the tower later on so I guess he didn't crush the weak spot.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:20
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Was wondering, where's Jean during all this? At Trost still? Sasha, Connie, Christa, Ymir, Reiner, and Bertholdt were together to warn villagers and Sasha is with her family now while the rest are on the wall. Our main trio were with Hanji until they met up at the castle. Marco is dead, Annie's been captured. Don't tell me I've managed to confuse Jean with Reiner this whole time. 
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Apr 24, 2013 21:11
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Brought To You By posted:^^ This See, this is always something that bugged me. If titans go inactive at night, then why didn't the scouting legion do their missions at night? And why didn't they try to retake wall Maria through series of attacks that took place at night? If titans are supposed to stop moving at night, then that seems like the best time to go out and kill them.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:17
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They become less active at night, not completely dormant.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:23
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of bees posted:See, this is always something that bugged me. If titans go inactive at night, then why didn't the scouting legion do their missions at night? And why didn't they try to retake wall Maria through series of attacks that took place at night? If titans are supposed to stop moving at night, then that seems like the best time to go out and kill them. Probably because trying to cover any sort of distance in the wilderness at night is going to be horribly difficult. Also, setting up camp and sleeping while the titans are active seems like it would be an even more effective form of suicide than the ranging expeditions already are.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:24
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RatHat posted:Fun fact, that smaller titan shows up attacking the tower later on so I guess he didn't crush the weak spot. Crushing just the head without hitting the weakspot shows that he won't tolerate disobedience, but also won't kill for it immediately. So it's possible that if the titan had survived the foray at the tower, and disobeyed again in the future, the hairy titan would've simply killed him. It's also possible, though unlikely, that he doesn't know of the weakspot.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:24
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Apr 24, 2013 21:46
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of bees posted:See, this is always something that bugged me. If titans go inactive at night, then why didn't the scouting legion do their missions at night? And why didn't they try to retake wall Maria through series of attacks that took place at night? If titans are supposed to stop moving at night, then that seems like the best time to go out and kill them. they actually mention that now that they have Eren, if he learns how to do the skin hardening, they can gun for Maria during the night and then seal it up. but, the original expedition to Maria was huge, it's a massive undertaking in terms of construction, and Maria is a considerable distance away.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:49
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Autumncomet posted:Was wondering, where's Jean during all this? At Trost still? Sasha, Connie, Christa, Ymir, Reiner, and Bertholdt were together to warn villagers and Sasha is with her family now while the rest are on the wall. Our main trio were with Hanji until they met up at the castle. Marco is dead, Annie's been captured. Don't tell me I've managed to confuse Jean with Reiner this whole time. You have. Jean was back at the city helping catch Annie. I guess he stayed at the city with Irvin, or they couldn't find him before they set out. I wonder why Jean was trusted over all the other trainees to not be a human-titan though.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:54
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Autumncomet posted:Was wondering, where's Jean during all this? At Trost still? Sasha, Connie, Christa, Ymir, Reiner, and Bertholdt were together to warn villagers and Sasha is with her family now while the rest are on the wall. Our main trio were with Hanji until they met up at the castle. Marco is dead, Annie's been captured. Don't tell me I've managed to confuse Jean with Reiner this whole time. We haven't seen Jean since he talked to Eren about Annie. He's presumably still back at Trost with the majority of the Scouts.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:59
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FourOhFour posted:Crushing just the head without hitting the weakspot shows that he won't tolerate disobedience, but also won't kill for it immediately. So it's possible that if the titan had survived the foray at the tower, and disobeyed again in the future, the hairy titan would've simply killed him. It's also possible, though unlikely, that he doesn't know of the weakspot. He knows about the weak spot. He specifically mentions it when he is studying the 3D gear.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:05
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I have been assuming that Riener and Berthold were willing to die because their orders were to not break cover unless doing so would secure or neutralize the human titans. I am also guessing that Erin's father discovered something that their faction needs. It may even be titanification itself. It may be that the other faction only has so many human titans, and that in them the trait is hereditary. The walls being Titans suggests another idea: the wall and the Titans are a prison. The wall Titans gave their existence to contain a hated enemy. Not a new idea per se, but it does explain the wall Titans and the attitude of Reiner and Berthold towards the people within the walls. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 25, 2013 |
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Apr 25, 2013 16:48
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I am not sure if Reiner or Bertholdt know of the wall Titans, otherwise why not just smash all of the undefended outer wall and free the 50 footers in there? That would make the most sense to me. Then humanity would be easily crushed and the Titan-human faction wouldn't need to risk their two greatest war assets as they would have a plethora to throw at the inner walls.
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Apr 25, 2013 17:26
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Excelsiortothemax posted:I am not sure if Reiner or Bertholdt know of the wall Titans, otherwise why not just smash all of the undefended outer wall and free the 50 footers in there? That would make the most sense to me. Then humanity would be easily crushed and the Titan-human faction wouldn't need to risk their two greatest war assets as they would have a plethora to throw at the inner walls. We sure the wall giants are necessarily on their side, though? I mean, their advanced use of their powers suggests their 'pilots' are in control, and if they're in control, that means they voluntarily entombed themselves to save the city.
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Apr 25, 2013 17:29
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The scale is a bit too large for every titan in the wall to have gone in voluntarily. Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie can't seem to control titans beyond calling them. The only hints we've seen of titans being controllable both involve talking titans, albeit in different ways. The sasquatch could talk and control titans, and the titan who mistook a scout for Ymir could talk and was presumably controlled. I can't quite figure out how it all fits together, though.
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Apr 25, 2013 17:36
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I was just thinking of the terror that the priest was expressing of the titan in the wall. Now though you have me wondering if the priest wasn't worried so much about the titans being antagonistic towards humanity, but for everyone freaking the hell out knowing that their greatest enemy is also their savior.
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Apr 25, 2013 17:40
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