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SIGSEGV posted:There is a matter of acceleration and deceleration, since they don't go FTL they can't act without causality in the way. Or else they're not working on actual real-world physics and rather on whatever makes for good gameplay. Maybe I should tell Mecron that his Hivers lack verisimilitude. Splicer fucked around with this message at 01:51 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 01:46
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You can also just hand wave away problems with techno babble. Extreme acceleration and deceleration causing problems? BAM,inertia dampeners, problem solved. Or maybe hivers can just take it, as the fluff says their chitin is akin to tank armor. Any game or story involving interstellar travel already takes space magic, no reason to get hung up on details. What matters more is internal consistency. As long as it makes sense in-universe I don't really mind them going for more "realistic." Hiver STL is one of the more innocuous bits of fluff/gameplay and there are much better examples really. For example as someone who has a BS in Evolution and Ecology, the whole "only 1/1000 Tarka males is sexually viable" bit made my eye twitch.
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May 22, 2013 03:04
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Guys Mecron might be reading this thread. Don't give him any ideas! 
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May 22, 2013 03:14
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Arglebargle III posted:Guys Mecron might be reading this thread. Don't give him any ideas! Hey, Mecron, here's an idea for ya - spin off the SotS 2 combat engine into its own game already.
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May 22, 2013 03:54
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Imagine if Endless Space had the SOTS2 combat engine instead of some stupid card game bullshit. That game would be awesome.
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May 22, 2013 04:10
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Kung Food posted:You can also just hand wave away problems with techno babble. Extreme acceleration and deceleration causing problems? BAM,inertia dampeners, problem solved. Or maybe hivers can just take it, as the fluff says their chitin is akin to tank armor. Any game or story involving interstellar travel already takes space magic, no reason to get hung up on details. What matters more is internal consistency. As long as it makes sense in-universe I don't really mind them going for more "realistic." Hiver STL is one of the more innocuous bits of fluff/gameplay and there are much better examples really. For example as someone who has a BS in Evolution and Ecology, the whole "only 1/1000 Tarka males is sexually viable" bit made my eye twitch. And that's my point, there's so much "unrealistic" stuff in there for gameplay purposes* that "because realism" is a stupid, stupid reason for anything. *I'm being generous here, it's more likely that Mecron&co just didn't understand how space worked when making their space game. (Mecron: If you're reading this, just give Hivers infinite range! Because all their ships have little gates in their engines that their planets keep pouring fuel into! All problems solved) JeffersonClay posted:Imagine if Endless Space had the SOTS2 combat engine instead of some stupid card game bullshit. That game would be awesome.  *I am using this particularly awful example as a placeholder for all the terrible things wrong with Endless Space due to ~~~community voting~~~ Actually, SotS2 and Endless Space make a great compare/contrast of the problems that can be caused by two extremes of listening to your fanbase. Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:12 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 12:09
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I think Hivers aren't just burning away at full speed until they run out of fuel. They take that last year to use the last of their fuel to slow down to a stop.
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May 22, 2013 14:17
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Seriously stop thinking so hard about this. Also, you're going to make Mecron change Hiver fleets so that they keep going forever if they run out of fuel and then you'll complain.
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May 22, 2013 14:56
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Arglebargle III posted:Seriously stop thinking so hard about this. The Mecron-Boson is the particle responsible for the Mecron field, the universal source of  . This is not found near star systems as the intense solar wind drives Mecron-Bosons away. However in interstellar space, the concentrated smugness acts as a source of drag and eventually causes all nice things to grind to a halt. When transiting deep space hiver ships must constantly burn fuel to offset this drag force. Furthermore, unusually high concentrations of Mecron-Bosons are so unbearable they have been know to cause certain species of asteroids to commit suicide against the nearest inhabited planet.
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May 22, 2013 19:21
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Soylent Pudding posted:Furthermore, unusually high concentrations of Mecron-Bosons are so unbearable they have been know to cause certain species of asteroids to commit suicide against the nearest inhabited planet. loving  I really do wonder how much of that smug is genuine smug and how much of it is defensive tantrum flailing. Can't be easy being Mecron sometimes. Even if he does have a personal harem of brainwashed blowjob slaves on his forums.
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May 22, 2013 19:35
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Soylent Pudding posted:The Mecron-Boson is the particle responsible for the Mecron field, the universal source of
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May 22, 2013 19:49
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Splicer posted:As far as I'm concerned this is now canon. We're unlikely to ever get a better explanation. Someone should try and sneak that into the wiki and see if anyone has an aneurysm.
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May 22, 2013 19:53
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Soylent Pudding posted:The Mecron-Boson is the particle responsible for the Mecron field, the universal source of This needs to go into the op  .
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May 22, 2013 20:10
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Splicer posted:*I'm being generous here, it's more likely that Mecron&co just didn't understand how space worked when making their space game. Nah, they know that, when they talked about what went in SotS they junked real space physics because it would be hellish to manage. They also dumped engine torches as weapons because it would be horrible for formations friendly fire parties and full 3D combat because it would suck too many computer resources to place satellites fortify a planet properly. (I'm gonna blame that one on kerbcode since kerbcode loaded every ship apart from the others in a mess where 30 ships of the exact same design were fine but 300 weren't even though there never where more than 30 in combat) That was also the thing that made them drop building things on colonies since having the player need to tell the colony to build a school, a hospital, some barracks and perhaps a shipyard would be stupid. Dumping that idea is why we're crying in front of module lists for our space stations. I still don't know why it was so that size was important for defenses though. Apparently my forge world that shits out 2 DNs a turn can't support CR sized defenses. (I wouldn't want it to suck on IO, defenses are already cringe worthy enough as they are.) SIGSEGV fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 20:46
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SIGSEGV posted:Nah, they know that, when they talked about what went in SotS they junked real space physics because it would be hellish to manage. They also dumped engine torches as weapons because it would be horrible for formations friendly fire parties and full 3D combat because it would suck too many computer resources to place satellites fortify a planet properly. (I'm gonna blame that one on kerbcode since kerbcode loaded every ship apart from the others in a mess where 30 ships of the exact same design were fine but 300 weren't even though there never where more than 30 in combat) I still don't understand why stations couldn't just be modular in the same fashion they are in Galactic Civilizations. I resent having to micro a station and manually build labs that each give 1% research. In fact, the whole loving thing could have been abstracted to a system infrastructure panel that handled everything but Mecron loves needless micro. 
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May 22, 2013 21:06
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SIGSEGV posted:Nah, they know that, when they talked about what went in SotS they junked real space physics because it would be hellish to manage. They also dumped engine torches as weapons because it would be horrible for formations friendly fire parties and full 3D combat because it would suck too many computer resources to place satellites fortify a planet properly. (I'm gonna blame that one on kerbcode since kerbcode loaded every ship apart from the others in a mess where 30 ships of the exact same design were fine but 300 weren't even though there never where more than 30 in combat) 
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May 22, 2013 21:08
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Splicer posted:These are perfectly good design decisions based on gameplay being superior to realism. So what the hell happened? I guess they felt that the game could use more complexity. So they added some. It wasn't a big success. Another thing bugging me is the ghost ship. It was built. Then humanity lost the ability to use antimatter, to make LVs, DNs (you know, what it was supposed to crush), all the weapons on it, its engines, its sensors and even the technology to make the shipyard it was built in.
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May 22, 2013 21:19
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SIGSEGV posted:I guess they felt that the game could use more complexity. So they added some. Black OPs R&D just don't do it.
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May 22, 2013 21:21
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SIGSEGV posted:I guess they felt that the game could use more complexity. So they added some. Pretty sure you're seeing the Leviathan before it was built. It's rusted all over and in a hideous state of disrepair, but it should be brand new. It's probably ancient, then got sent back to the past.
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May 22, 2013 22:11
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DatonKallandor posted:Pretty sure you're seeing the Leviathan before it was built. It's rusted all over and in a hideous state of disrepair, but it should be brand new. It's probably ancient, then got sent back to the past. That is a marvelous waste of time traveling ability. At least it cleans up science stations real good. A thing I wish we had was a non stupid AI in simple autoresolve situations that would simply murder VN collectors but not their motherships for example and all that without bugging the player again and again.
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May 22, 2013 22:16
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Demiurge4 posted:I still don't understand why stations couldn't just be modular in the same fashion they are in Galactic Civilizations. I resent having to micro a station and manually build labs that each give 1% research. In fact, the whole loving thing could have been abstracted to a system infrastructure panel that handled everything but Mecron loves needless micro.
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May 22, 2013 23:19
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Crash74 posted:This needs to go into the op Alright, due to popular demand third post now has a fanfic section. I'm probably going to regret this... I should find that slashfic that one goon wrote and put that on the third post too too.
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May 23, 2013 06:52
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Talkie Toaster posted:In SotS1, stations were modular too. But you had a maximum of 2 modules
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May 23, 2013 09:30
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Splicer posted:Huh? Stations in SotS1 are set constructions except for weapon placement. He could be talking about how you can build two stations per planet, I guess? Edit: Also how you could pack weapons and stuff on it, which I guess is technically modular, but not really pertinent to modifications for economic reasons.
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May 23, 2013 12:08
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Tomn posted:He could be talking about how you can build two stations per planet, I guess? Wasn't the amount of stations allowed tied to the planet's population?
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May 23, 2013 12:48
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It was. It led to a wierd edge case situation in which you could get a Habitat station for free because the Habitat pushed the population over the trigger point to give you another station slot.
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May 23, 2013 13:05
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That always seemed pretty intuitive to me. Also, only Morrigi got habitat stations so it was more of a bonus for that race instead of weird edge case.
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May 23, 2013 13:17
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Yeah, having a bunch of people floating in space making it easier to keep more structures floating in space is pretty reasonable. That and their base pop bonus meaning space stations everywhere was one of the reasons I liked Morrigi so much. Throw in a lucky roll on arcologies and whoo boy. Again, could have been streamlined a bit. Giant ships being needed to build stations around dirt rocks makes sense, but you'd think a populated planet with two existent orbital structures and 30 defence satellites would be able to manage without one. Splicer fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 16:17
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This game looks gorgeous, but it reminds me of those paradox titles that need a year and a half of intensive patching. So has the game improved since launch?
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May 23, 2013 16:25
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Improved? Sure Improved enough to be as good as SotS1? No. Likely to ever be as good? Probably not. Paradox as a company are generally pretty good at accepting that some of their ideas are really bad. They then turn around and fix them. Mecron, in his infinite wisdom is unable to do wrong and how dare you complain about his perfect game design that is so amazing that you can't comprehend it and are just jealous when you insult it.
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May 23, 2013 16:36
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Tomn posted:He could be talking about how you can build two stations per planet, I guess? Still, looks like it should be possible to have constructors build effectively level 5 stations from scratch, with 0-cost modules and many of the module effects folded-in (like... why would you not build habitation modules when they effectively double the value of trade routes? Why not just double the value of trade?). Irritatingly modules can only be build at a rate of 1/turn and some of the really basic things like freighter slots can only be applied by modules, so they're still not perfect, but it's still better and a lot closer to SotS1. E: Oh, doesn't work for triggering Admirals/Suul'Ka. It seems that the station rank in the station .section files controls upkeep + bonuses it grants, but isn't the 'rank' rank. How delightfully consistent. Talkie Toaster fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 16:37
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So how comes the goon patch of making the AI not suck, fixing research times, and turning off dumb randoms.
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May 23, 2013 16:53
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I'm not sure I'd want a random event that included a dozen "lost" Hiver ships ramming into your planet because they ran out of fuel a million years earlier.
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May 23, 2013 16:53
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Hagop posted:So how comes the goon patch of making the AI not suck, fixing research times, and turning off dumb randoms. Still working on it. I've had incredible success with Tarka, but the Hivers (slightly behind schedule but looking good at turn 40) killed themselves with debt by turn 80. I could probably fix that problem by dramatically cutting colony development costs - but unlike the maintenance, there's a good reason for colony development costs to be at the level they are. If it's just the Hiver AI that needs that particular change to function gently caress em. Hivers become a Player-only race with a note to that effect in the readme.txt. Edit: Although it's possbile the Hard Difficulty bonuses could rescue the Hiver AI without any further changes. Testing will hopefully show. I'm doing testing on the other AIs at the moment before I make any further changes - if I did I'd have no idea what changes caused what new issues (or fixed them). DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 19:02 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 18:57
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DatonKallandor posted:I'm doing testing on the other AIs at the moment before I make any further changes - if I did I'd have no idea what changes caused what new issues (or fixed them). That's hardly in keeping with the spirit of SotS2.
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May 23, 2013 21:48
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DatonKallandor posted:Still working on it. Huzzah. Please check whether the AI has a tard-boner for making defense satellites up to the command cap in every system. That's what caused me to quit my first game if anyone remembers, the AI spent 250 million on defense satellites and tanked my economy.
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May 24, 2013 02:10
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Haven't noticed any particular defense sat obsession. It does beeline for Drone sats, but only deploys one or two per system.
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May 24, 2013 02:40
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Rynoto posted:Improved? Sure I've never played the first entry in this series...should I try it out? I've been starving for a good 4X game.
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May 24, 2013 02:47
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Yes. Thought for the Day: Sword of the Stars needs no justification. Sword of the Stars II allows none.
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May 24, 2013 03:20
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Radio Talmudist posted:I've never played the first entry in this series...should I try it out? I've been starving for a good 4X game. Yup, SotS 1 with all the expansions in one of the best 4X games in possibly the last decade IMO. Edit: That's what makes SotS 2 the epic fail that it is and why so much frothing and nerd rage have been devoted to it.
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