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Oh yeah I was doing color genetics, how about we talk about cormo colors. Cormos are a commercial wool breed so it is really important in the industry for them to be white. While I like natural colored fleece and have a nice handspinners market who also like it, when you are producing thousands of pounds of it for the textile industry you want it all to be uniform. This means they are E+/E+ Awt/?. The extension gene is "on" allowing the agouti allele to show and there has to be at least one Awt or solid white gene. Awt is the most dominant agouti variation so they could be carrying any of the other agouti patterns and not show it but in large commercial flocks colored lambs and ewes who produce colored lambs are culled pronto so a number of them are probably homozygous for white. Some have cream or tan spots on the face that could indicate other agouti alleles are present or could be something else entirely, no one has really looked into it.  My cormo ram is from lines that have had natural colored sheep introduced. I don't remember what the breeder used to outcross but if I were to hazard a guess it would be some sort of romney based mix. This is Alister's dad, Mars:  There are a couple ways he could be solid black (he is solid black, just bleached a lot by the sun). He could be black because the extension gene is turned "off" and is not allowing the agouti allele to be expressed leaving a solid black sheep. He could also be black from being E+/E+ a/a, the most recessive of the agouti alleles which causes a solid black sheep as well. Mars was bred to a black ewe and produced a solid black ram lamb and Al:  This lets us know that Mars (or the ewe) must have been black due to the extension gene and not due to the a allele. There's no way to get a white (Awt/?) ram out of two recessive black (a/a) parents). In other color news I am trying out a solution to my breeding harness problems. I looked up an American Sheep Industry study which said that pretty much all commercial breeding markers are next to impossible to wash out of fleece, at least without taking the wool to a commercial washing facility. The only product they tested that came out completely was this stuff:  Dixon railroad chalk. It only comes in boxes of 72 sticks but was $20 so I took the risk. The plan is to crush it up, mix it with a little bit of oil and use it like raddle powder. Right now I'm testing it on inconspicuous areas of the sheep and goats (and dog) to make sure it comes out as well as they say. If it works I'll have to apply it to all of my working rams every couple of days but my boys are all friendly and they'll be in pens during breeding season anyway and if I have some better idea of when lambs are coming it will be totally worth it. In conclusion here is a very short and pointless baby Ginger video I found on my camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pxq4L52-j8 vvv The problem I've heard with regular sidewalk chalk is that its often pastel colors which wouldn't show up well. If I could find really bright stuff it would probably work fine. vvv Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 18:15
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Holy poo poo, give Major racing stripes. This is going to sound nuts, but if that chalk works, did anyone ever test plain old sidewalk chalk? Like kids play with?
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Jun 6, 2013 18:23
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Crayola makes some really vibrant sidewalk chalk nowadays (including glow-in-the dark!) but it would get pretty pricey pretty fast.
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Jun 7, 2013 05:17
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Instant Jellyfish posted:There are a couple ways he could be solid black (he is solid black, just bleached a lot by the sun). He could be black because the extension gene is turned "off" and is not allowing the agouti allele to be expressed leaving a solid black sheep. He could also be black from being E+/E+ a/a, the most recessive of the agouti alleles which causes a solid black sheep as well.  Aaaaand with this post I learn of the existence of a dominant black allele on the extension gene. I only really know horse and dog color genetics, and neither of those species have that allele. They do have a recessive red allele on extension that blocks agouti and results in a solid red animal. Now I'm going to be up all night checking extension alleles on every species I can think of, thanks a lot. (No really, thanks. I love reading color genetics papers.)
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Jun 7, 2013 07:53
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Argh, I can't wait to shear our sheep at work! I've never done it before so I'm really excited to have a go (I'm also fairly sure the enthusiasm will wear off very quickly). Now that the British weather has actually decided to make up its mind about summer I'm pretty sure we'll be getting it done sooner rather than later (hopefully). I think we ended up with 11 lambs this year and 2 kids so far, but judging from our billy goats weird behaviour lately, I'm hoping there will be more kids coming  Looking through the photos on my phone there's disappointingly few livestock pictures, I'm on a poultry binge at the moment. Ducklings and chicks everywhere... Random photo of our sheep pen, which is mostly Poll Dorsets and two (I think) Suffolk or Suffolk cross lambs that were given to us as bottle feeders, and then there's Kimby and Milo our alpacas having a cool down with the hose.  
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Jun 7, 2013 12:45
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Aravenna posted:
Wait until I get to the goats. They can be dominant black or red on the extension gene or either color due to agouti patterns plus both a dominant white (pretty much only found in angora goats) and a recessive white. Here's a couple spergy pdfs on goat colors if you want to get a head start. Goats  Meles meles posted:Argh, I can't wait to shear our sheep at work! I've never done it before so I'm really excited to have a go (I'm also fairly sure the enthusiasm will wear off very quickly). Now that the British weather has actually decided to make up its mind about summer I'm pretty sure we'll be getting it done sooner rather than later (hopefully). I think we ended up with 11 lambs this year and 2 kids so far, but judging from our billy goats weird behaviour lately, I'm hoping there will be more kids coming As long as you have the right equipment and a helper shearing isn't too bad unless you have a completely wild yearling who has never been sheared before. I just did a massive horned dorset yearling ram who was so sweet and polite for shearing so hopefully your dorset ladies will be good for you too. You'll have to share before and afters! I love seeing them go from marshmallows to sheep. It has been very foggy here.  There is also a bit of a lake going on in my ewe pasture.  Maybe a more than a bit of a lake.  Goliath has gotten massive. He'll be 6 weeks tomorrow.  "Me?"  Compared to Eveleth the almost 12 year old ewe who is slightly smaller than my average jacob ewe.  Compared to Daisy who is slightly taller than my average jacob.  And he's still just a baby!  The white power group. The baby mooses love hanging out with Sherman the romeldale.  It was Prism's turn to babysit. Usually they all either hang out with Flirt or have their own little club meetings alone away from the adults. 
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Jun 7, 2013 16:10
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Bet you could powder it by grinding the chalk against a cheese grater.
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Jun 8, 2013 02:27
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Do the white power lambs ever harass the Jacobs for being 'interracial'. I need to know this, for um, sheep science.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:32
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Captain Foxy posted:Do the white power lambs ever harass the Jacobs for being 'interracial'. They do almost always hang out separately  Goliath gets to hang out with the white guys sometimes. I guess they make an exception because his mom is white. The cormo babies got to go to a farmers market and be adorable today. It was a hour and a half both ways of nonstop baaing. I kind of wanted to die. They were awfully cute though.  Edit: Am I going to have to name them Schillinger and Robson now? 
Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 20:15
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Instant Jellyfish posted:
NO! Don't do it! 
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Jun 8, 2013 21:32
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Oh my, does that tag say 'official lamb ambassador'? I think I'm going to die 
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Jun 8, 2013 21:39
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Fraction posted:Oh my, does that tag say 'official lamb ambassador'? I think I'm going to die Not quite. Official Lambassador.
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Jun 8, 2013 21:47
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Fraction posted:Oh my, does that tag say 'official lamb ambassador'? I think I'm going to die It's "Official Lamb-bassador"  I have an "Ima Goat" one for when I drag the goats out too. On the top right here. 
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Jun 8, 2013 21:49
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I want your lambs and those collars! I went to the same country fair here in the UK as last year and again they had Jacobs although I missed the shearing.   
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Jun 10, 2013 13:19
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Instant Jellyfish posted:
I love Goliath's eyebrow spots! Total 
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Jun 10, 2013 17:23
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Zenith I love seeing jacobs from the UK, they're so much more substantial than my little willowy girls.SchrodingersFish posted:I love Goliath's eyebrow spots! Total He's just very disappointed in you.  He actually has the badgerface pattern and if he didn't have all those spots and white markings (and was a doe goat) he would look sort of like this.  Bramble is on of the shyest Jazz babies we've had here. She likes to do her own thing.  Bracken's horns have gone all stupid on the right side so his ram prospects are looking grim but he'll still make an adorable wether.  Primrose is Primrose and remains a perfect pretty princess.   Teeny tiny lamb is now named Clementine and she is still very loud and sassy.  I never docked her because she was just too small for me to be comfortable with it. She'll just join the list of sheep who need a tail shave now and then.  She likes to come over to me for neck and chest rubs and she's so cute and soft I think I'm going to die every time.  Heathgoat and Opal (I think that's Opal) were having a goat battle. It's hard to believe the white girls are a month older than Heath.      Pearl just watched from the sidelines. 
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Jun 11, 2013 15:58
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Give me Clementine. I'll make a little saddle and she and Keeper can cosplay as Sir Didymus and Ambrosius from Labyrinth. DO THIS FOR ME.
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Jun 11, 2013 18:20
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Captain Foxy posted:Give me Clementine. I'll make a little saddle and she and Keeper can cosplay as Sir Didymus and Ambrosius from Labyrinth. ....dear god I WILL PAY FOR SHIPPING to make this happen. PLEASE Instant Jellyfish, pleeeeeeeeease
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Jun 11, 2013 18:57
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Not gonna lie, Clementine is cute, but Primrose is my favorite. She is indeed very prim.
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Jun 11, 2013 23:42
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I want a Jacobs lamb that stays both lamb-sized and as unbearably adorable as Clementine. Can you make this happen please IJ
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Jun 12, 2013 09:37
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I went on vacation and came home to giant lambs. I could have sworn they were all tiny babies when I left. Primrose looks so dignified all the time.  "You're getting my good side, yes?"  All spots, all the time.  I said all spots all the time Sherman, get out of here.  Happy fun hole is super wet and muddy but that hasn't changed its appeal.  Clementine is still teeny at least.  She is a wild child though and is always starting things with the other lambs.  She's got 4 teeny horns under all that fluff.  Oh Bracken. Half of your horns are perfect, what happened to the other half?  Bramble's horns aren't all stupid, but she is a little funny looking. That's just how Jazz daughters seem to be though.  The mooselings (who I really should name at some point) are losing their wrinkles.  They're looking like real sheep instead of babies in pajamas a size too big.  Oh I guess Sherman was just spying on the spotty sheep and will now tell their secrets to his mom.  Goliath was off looking smug about something.  While I was away I picked up the new Animal Crossing game and one of my first villagers was a sheep I was entirely too excited about it and spent my 2 hour delay in Detroit becoming her bestest friend.
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Jun 20, 2013 16:08
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This past weekend was Woolfest at Lake FarmPark amd despite only selling $30 of stuff there two years ago we decided to take a risk and sign up again. At very least its close and it lets me go cuddle sheep and goats (that aren't mine). I'm so glad we did though because we sold like crazy! There were tons of spinners there and they loved our raw fleeces, art batt and some special Jacob batt packs my mom whipped up. I sold both Tootsie and Angela's fleeces that they came to us with, even though they weren't great. The staple length was pretty short and they had some mites and mineral deficiencies that caused dandruff and a loss of lock definition. I think their next shearing is going to be a lot nicer (so I can sell it for more) now that I've got their mites and lice under control and I've been giving them minerals with more copper. The people who bought it knew what they were getting and were very happy with it though. People were fighting over the one cormo fleece I brought even though it was way more expensive than many fleeces there. I guess even though I like the romeldales better I'm going to have to breed up some more cormos. We're one of two farms in Ohio with cormos so its not a fleece you see a lot of at shows so it sells really well. The only raw fleeces that didn't sell well were the jacobs  The farmpark has jacobs that were being shearing that weekend and people could buy the fleeces right there so that really appealed to people I think. Plus their fleeces were being sold for less than half of what I sell mine for. I don't mind because mine are higher quality and I certainly can find people who want it at the price I set but it meant I had to drag it all the way out there and back. Someone did buy all of Windsor's fleece though! And the jacob batt sold well. I also checked out the other vendors and  I think it would look super amazing with the nice heather grey spots Dennis and Twofer have instead of solid black. I also want to try with some of my white wool dyed before plying together Also I saw the crazy lady I got my original crazy goats from and had a nice talk with her even though I thought she hated me after I sold Odysseus. She's up to 31 cats now.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:46
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I love all of your updates. Can you tell yet if Clementine is going to keep her own tail clean, or if you'll have to help her out forever? How are the lambs' attitudes toward you? Does Bracken's horn orientation have any impact on whether you breed his parents again? Did you get a chance to test out the railroad chalk to see if it comes out of the fleece nicely? Do the mooselings' feet look like the Jacobs' feet? I want to try drawing something and I think I have a vague idea of how Jacob feet are supposed to look now, but the mooselings are always hidden. So many questions. Instant Jellyfish posted:Also I saw the crazy lady I got my original crazy goats from and had a nice talk with her even though I thought she hated me after I sold Odysseus. She's up to 31 cats now.  No wonder she's crazy.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:23
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I'm so glad you updated today, even if there weren't any more baby animal pics. I'm really sick right now and hearing an out the fiber fair cheered me up a little bit.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:23
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LoreOfSerpents posted:I love all of your updates. Clem seems to be moving her tail around well so I'm hoping she keeps it up. She seems to go overboard and dangle it over her back sometimes. The minimooses adore me and trample over for face rubs and cuddles just like their dad, Clementine will come over for neck rubs too but don't you dare pick her up or there will be screaming. Sherman will sometimes come over and chew my pants if the mooselings are there but for the most part all the other lambs keep their distance, which is fine. They all come around when they learn what grain is and that I am the Keeper of the Grain. Bracken is a full sibling of 3 other rams with perfectly good horns, sometimes things just go funny. I'll probably not do the same cross that produced him again just because I'm planning on retiring his mom this year and Dennis is getting the year off so I can have more Windsor babies next year. Railroad chalk came out of both the goat fleece and my dog's fur very easily. I haven't caught a sheep to try on yet but it looks like it will work really well. I just need to take the sledge hammer to it to powder it up. All sheep hooves look pretty much the same, just different colors. The mooselings have sort of offwhite colored hooves, while the jacobs have either black or striped hooves. Here's a sheep hoof illustration: 
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Jun 25, 2013 01:19
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GabrielAisling posted:I'm so glad you updated today, even if there weren't any more baby animal pics. I'm really sick right now and hearing an out the fiber fair cheered me up a little bit. Hopefully the only cure you need is more baby goats. Why are the delicious cherry branches just out of reach, wonders Dido.  Heath is so big! But he's the sweetest little goat ever.  He likes to trundle over and rest the side of his face against my arm like the world is just too much for him.  If only I didn't know what horrible pee monster he was going to become.  He's still awfully cute for now.  Ginger makes dumb faces.  Everyone is jealous of Tootsie's sweet beard.  I think this is Pearl with Ginger.  Opal has a fuzzier face.  Fuzzier everything really.  Pearl has skinny naked legs.  Ginger does too. It's pretty common in colored angora lines, while Opal's fuzzy legs look more like classic AGBA white angoras. 
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Jun 25, 2013 01:48
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Heath is SO pretty! I love the color of his wool. It's too bad that he's going to start peeing on himself soon. Yech! What a freaking shame. His wool is so pretty that I would be seriously tempted to wether him if he were mine, but on the other hand, his breeding potential is also just astounding.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:28
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Oh goodness, a livestock thread? Better post pictures of my dumb boer mixes! Peanut happened three days ago. He's a runt and has a big head.  His ridiculously photogenic mother, Piper.  And two four month old boys from Piper's mother. Four months old still counts as a baby, right?  This year was nothing but males. 
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Jun 26, 2013 21:01
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Piper looks so sweet
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Jun 26, 2013 21:23
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Pogonodon posted:Oh goodness, a livestock thread? Better post pictures of my dumb boer mixes! Thank you for sharing those ADORABLE photos!
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Jun 27, 2013 01:24
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Wow. Piper sure is pretty!
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Jun 27, 2013 14:12
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Pogonodon posted:Oh goodness, a livestock thread? Better post pictures of my dumb boer mixes! They count as babies until there are more babies next year  Piper has some awesome ears, does she have alpine in her? Sucks about all the boys, do you sell them for meat?Do boers do well in your area? Everyone in my area tries to raise boers and boer xs but they really don't do well. I trimmed one's hooves at a shearing job and they were like swiss cheese It's just too wet here and people should probably move to spanish goats or kikos but they see boers doing well elsewhere and think they are the goat to raise.How is hay looking for everyone else who has to buy hay? Prices spiked to about $10 a square bale for whatever weeds people could cut in their backyards after the drought last year. They're down to $3-4 a bale now that people are starting to put up their first cutting but its been so drat wet that a lot of people haven't had a chance to hay yet. My neighbor (who was going to sell me all the hay I needed) started cutting hay on monday but has had to leave it unbaled on the field because its stormed every day since. I might have to travel to Erie again to get hay where it looks like its down to $2-3 a bale.
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Jun 27, 2013 16:04
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Oh yeah, Piper is a real sweetheart. Never a problem, except for the time she got loose and managed to eat all of my mayhaw saplings. But she was so adorable, doing her little happy dance. I'm not sure about her entire genetic makeup, the herd her mother and father came from was a boer mix group. Her grandmother was mostly leg, but the herd owner didn't really know what she was. The local 'wood goat' mutts tend to be a random mixture of boer, spanish and nubian, or boer/pygmy, so that may be why there's not really a hoof rot problem. Polio problem, sure, but not hoof rot. Local hay is about 4-6 a square bale and 25-45 for a round. Better not want anything other than peanut or coastal though. Looking at all these Jacob sheep makes me wonder if I should have gone with a sheep breed of some sort, they're so neat looking. 
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Jun 27, 2013 16:34
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What goat/sheep breed would be recommended for a wet, muddy climate like the fabulous Pacific NW? If regular hoof maintenance is all it takes for keeping any breed, then that's fine, but if there's a specific mud-wading goat, I want to know about it. Mostly I see people around here with boer/alpine/sanaan crosses, and they're cute as heck but I would like a fancy goat thankyouverymuch.
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Jun 27, 2013 18:26
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I live in SW Washington and I had an alpine/nubian cross that did pretty good here. When I have the time and acreage for it, I plan on getting LaManchas. The thing to remember is that goats HATE getting wet. So if you live in a rainy, muddy area, you just need to have plenty of cover and dry areas for them. Forested land works pretty well for that and goats like yummy things that grow in forests. Also, make sure that you have a nice, dry, cozy barn you can lock them into at night. My goat would always just stand under the horse when it rained and they would wander around grazing together like that. So I guess that would work too. And it adds to the cute factor.
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Jun 27, 2013 23:19
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Instant Jellyfish posted:Sucks about all the boys, do you sell them for meat? I've been staring at the two older boys and I still don't quite know what to do with them. Silas is pretty much the boer type I've always wanted. And those white spots are so pretty  but he's closely related to every goat I have at the moment. Backwards isn't quite as pretty, but I had to work hard to make him survive birth and now I feel possessive.  I've had a few people ask for future breedings off both, but it's probably not worth it to keep them around that long. Not exactly livestock, but I couldn't think of anyplace for poultry to go, so have a load of guineafowl keets that hatched the last three days. Plus three bantams. 
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Jun 29, 2013 07:38
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Pogonodon posted:Not exactly livestock, but I couldn't think of anyplace for poultry to go, so have a load of guineafowl keets that hatched the last three days. Plus three bantams. There's also a backyard chicken thread that would love to see these. 
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Jun 30, 2013 19:52
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 I don't know how I missed that thread.
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Jul 1, 2013 04:01
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Pogonodon posted:
It is the greatest thread next to this one. My mom is really excited about getting goats. Once we finish our chicken coop, I'd like to build a goat shelter for maybe 4 total goats. How much room should I have per goat? I've seen somewhere that for forage/pasture, 40 sq. feet per goat is good. What about indoors? How much insulation do they need? I live in Oregon, in the foothills of the Cascades, so while we do often get snow, it's never bitterly cold for the most part.
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Jul 1, 2013 19:32
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Captain Foxy posted:What goat/sheep breed would be recommended for a wet, muddy climate like the fabulous Pacific NW? If regular hoof maintenance is all it takes for keeping any breed, then that's fine, but if there's a specific mud-wading goat, I want to know about it. You can probably choose any fancy goat you want as long as you give them adequate shelter from rain with dry footing, make sure they get plenty of copper and anecdotally choose individuals with black hooves because they seem to have better hooves overall in my experience. Look for breeders in your area and ask specifically about hoofrot in their flocks and go with someone who has healthy looking goats with good looking feet and coats. You should get some little spotty nigerian dwarfs and teach Keeper to ride them   Lynza posted:It is the greatest thread next to this one. Its not really insulation you need to worry about, but draftiness and damp. If you insulate too well the inside of your shelter can get stuffy and you end up with a bunch of goats with pneumonia. My barn is 100 years old and has no insulation and even newborns do fine as long as they are shielded from the wind. Goats also love to destroy and climb all over things so keep that in mind while building. Something like these hog/cattle panel shelters work really well and are cheap and easy to put up and clean. Just bed it down well with straw in the winter.  Sizing depends on the size of the goats and how long you expect them to be in the shelter. If you are shutting them in for prolonged periods of time I would suggest 20 sq ft/ goat at least, if its just a run in shed for them to hang out in the rain with lots of outdoor room for them to run amok you could probably get away with halving that as long as you were good about keeping it clean. If you're going with the miniature breeds of goats you can probably size that down a bit.
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Jul 1, 2013 19:54
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