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sean10mm posted:The movie shows actual humans in that role - they make them work for food stamps on the This is not accidental; these are the characters who lack the class-consciousness to say "we are the monsters; we are the storm!" and rise against Stacker, the aliens, and the 1% who've moved inland. But they are at the edge of starvation, and get all their news from CNN. Newt has the the potential to pass down the revelation from Baby Kaiju Jesus, but uses the knowledge to betray the cause, giving it to Stacker instead. However, there is some hope: the film is cleverly edited so that the anti-wall riots are interpreted as pro-jaeger, but that's highly debatable. It's unclear if the jaegers actually have popular support. randombattle posted:Yeah it's a direct sequel cause you find out that Ghidorah is a weapon that aliens control to destroy planets. He's totally a nuclear analog like Godzilla. I may be blending vs. Gigan or DAM when I remember Ghidorah wrecking poo poo but he was being controlled all the time as he's basically a Pacific Rim style Kaiju, a big bioweapon that is controlled. Ghidorah doesnt just destroy planets, but helps colonize/rule them. Invasion of Astro-Monster makes it clear that Godzilla and Rodan are scapegoats; the real threat is capitalism, represented by Ghidorah as a literally golden idol. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 23:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is not accidental; these are the characters who lack the class-consciousness to say "we are the monsters; we are the storm!" and rise against Stacker, the aliens, and the 1% who've moved inland. But they are at the edge of starvation, and get all their news from CNN. Actually, Mako does this. Mako was orphaned in Tokyo. Stacker refuses to let her pilot a jaeger, but eventually (enabled by Raleigh, who too was working on the wall in exchange for food stamps) she stands up to him, and becomes a ranger (remember that rangers consider themselves lucky to be able to get bread). Jaegers are kaiju and Gypsy Danger is more of a kaiju than most, and Mako's driving it. In the third act, Stacker clearly identifies Gypsy with Mako; she has become the monster and the storm, just as you say. And she and Raleigh together end up being the ones who collapse the rift, destroying the only thing that gave any legitimacy to Stacker's title of Marshal. All the jaegers are destroyed by this time, and in the absence of kaiju, none more will be built. (Until the sequel, where the kaiju have built jaegers, and Herc is the Marshal, or something.) SuperMechagodzilla posted:However, there is some hope: the film is cleverly edited so that the anti-wall riots are interpreted as pro-jaeger, but that's highly debatable. It's unclear if the jaegers actually have popular support. The jaegers certainly were popular when Yancy was alive, and there was that cheering crowd in Hong Kong. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 00:07
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Kramjacks posted:Pentacost and Hanson work as a team to the end, but Raleigh just sends Mako away saying, "I can do this by myself, I don't need any help" and heroically completes the mission on his own. This has been brought up before: Raleigh ejects Mako because she's unconscious (even if he needed her help, he wouldn't have it) and "All I have to do is fall." He didn't realize that the computer would malfunction and the manual override would be needed. He thought it would be as simple as going through the rift and blowing up.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:14
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Bongo Bill posted:Actually, Mako does this. Mako was orphaned in Tokyo. Stacker refuses to let her pilot a jaeger, but eventually (enabled by Raleigh, who too was working on the wall in exchange for food stamps) she stands up to him, and becomes a ranger. Jaegers are kaiju and Gypsy Danger is more of a kaiju than most, and Mako's driving it. In the third act, Stacker clearly identifies Gypsy with Mako; she has become the monster and the storm, just as you say. And she and Raleigh together end up being the ones who collapse the rift, destroying the only thing that gave any legitimacy to Stacker's title of Marshal. All the jaegers are destroyed by this time, and in the absence of kaiju, none more will be built. That does little to counter the observation that this harmony is based on exclusion (of the kaiju). While Mako is beaten down and then stengthened by friendship-love, it's not translated into an authentically 'love they neighbour' universal love. Her victory does little to really upset the system. They're not going to disarm now that the threat is gone. They're going to find a new target. Perhaps the rioters?
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Jul 19, 2013 00:20
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How exactly are they named? Is there a queue of names they designate? Does Tendo Choi just get to pull some name out of his rear end? "Kaiju detected!!! Codename...uhh...uhhh...Diarrheafeet!"
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Jul 19, 2013 00:23
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I wonder if it's a list, like tropical storms.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:25
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Maxwell Lord posted:I wonder if it's a list, like tropical storms. I'm more surprised that the codenames are very apt and seem to be assigned almost immediately after they're detected leaving the breach. Maybe they've got a video feed of the breach and use that to come up with nicknames.  This guy's got a head like Frankenstein's monster, let's name him Karloff, after that famous actor! Okay!Edit: SuperMechagodzilla posted:That does little to counter the observation that this harmony is based on exclusion (of the kaiju). I maintain that Jaegers are only good at fighting other giant things.  Also I find the idea of them using the Jaegers on the anti-wall rioters disgustingly cynical.
Neurion fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 00:30
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You've got to name the action figures something!
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Jul 19, 2013 00:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That does little to counter the observation that this harmony is based on exclusion (of the kaiju). All the jaegers in the world were destroyed, and the PPDC was defunded months prior to build the wall, and no kaiju means no parts whose salvage rights can be sold to Hannibal. They can't build any more unless the world governments, who previously decided to stop building jaegers, change their minds. Effectively, they did disarm. If the world governments decide they need a new way to oppress the poor now that the kaiju are gone, they could go ahead and resume building their own monsters - but this would be a distinct change in their characterization. Bad filmmaking. They're greedy and short-sighted; they'd skimp on the reconstruction like they once skimped on effective protection.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:32
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Can I just say how awesome the soundtrack is? That opening theme, all day, in head, listening at home gets me so pumped.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:33
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Also it's kinda weird that people think "people uniting to defeat a common, outside foe" is a solely fascist thing when communists and liberal democracies have done the same. Anything the slightly bit martial isn't automatically "fascist".
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Jul 19, 2013 00:35
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Panfilo posted:How exactly are they named? Is there a queue of names they designate? Does Tendo Choi just get to pull some name out of his rear end? I assumed Newt does it, and each time he comes up with a particular apt one he sticks his hand up for a high five, and Gottlieb just stares blankly at his palm.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:42
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gently caress This Puzzle posted:Also it's kinda weird that people think "people uniting to defeat a common, outside foe" is a solely fascist thing when communists and liberal democracies have done the same. Anything the slightly bit martial isn't automatically "fascist". Where are you getting 'automatically' from? You! I'm calling you out. Provide your ethico-political reading of the film-text or step aside.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:43
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To everyone who got in on that Amazon/Heroclix deal, the item is now listed as "Currently unavailable," and on my end at least, has not shipped. I expect to see them cancelling the orders tonight or tomorrow.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:48
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A friend of mine sent me this awesome ILM work pin from Paciic Rim. I love the ILM symbol mixed in there.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Where are you getting 'automatically' from? This has been your entire basis for your argument. I don't know how on Earth (or kaiju dimension) you can call me out. The Third Positionism argument is faulty too because in such a system there is still one nation at the lead and also ignoring the fact that by the end it's a small group and not a mass action. Fuck This Puzzle fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 00:59
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I wouldn't want a prequel series because what made this movie exciting for me was how much the jaegers were the underdogs. They fought incredibly powerful kaiju and barely stayed alive. At every point I was thinking "it's over, the kaiju won." There wouldn't be any drama in a prequel series about the golden age of jaegers tearing down kaiju like they were nothing. Is it a coincidence that after Newt drifts with a Kaiju, the next two Kaiju that come out are modeled after a newt and a bulldog?
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Jul 19, 2013 01:01
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jscolon2.0 posted:I assumed Newt does it, and each time he comes up with a particular apt one he sticks his hand up for a high five, and Gottlieb just stares blankly at his palm. I did too, but the funny thing was that Tendo Choi designated Leatherback and Otachi as soon as they appeared. Now, some of them, I can imagine came from a pre-made list (Otachi, Onibaba, Trespasser, Scunner, Slattern, etc). But the descriptive ones, I imagine they had to have seen them. And I don't know if they saw Knifehead before they fought it- they just knew it was a Category III and it was on its way to Anchorage. It would be fun to be the one to name the Kaiju. Only a matter of time before  Anusface makes its rounds.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:03
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Pope Mobile posted:This has been brought up before: Raleigh ejects Mako because she's unconscious (even if he needed her help, he wouldn't have it) and "All I have to do is fall." He didn't realize that the computer would malfunction and the manual override would be needed. He thought it would be as simple as going through the rift and blowing up. Yeah thats a little different then I remember but still in the end he doesn't need any help, no teamwork is needed.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:04
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Pope Mobile posted:Oh, Predator 2. The really, really bad one. Are you crazy? That movie was great! Granted I was ten when I watched it.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:06
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935 posted:I wouldn't want a prequel series because what made this movie exciting for me was how much the jaegers were the underdogs. They fought incredibly powerful kaiju and barely stayed alive. At every point I was thinking "it's over, the kaiju won." There wouldn't be any drama in a prequel series about the golden age of jaegers tearing down kaiju like they were nothing. *gasp!* Did the Bulldog also succumb to hubris and drift with the Kaiju brain?!
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Jul 19, 2013 01:06
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Slate Action posted:To everyone who got in on that Amazon/Heroclix deal, the item is now listed as "Currently unavailable," and on my end at least, has not shipped. I expect to see them cancelling the orders tonight or tomorrow. Maybe, we'll see.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:07
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Lotish posted:Are you crazy? That movie was great! No your right, Predator 2 is pretty good.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:08
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Man, I would hope not, I'm looking forward to my pile of robot figurines for three dollars.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:08
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gently caress This Puzzle posted:This has been your entire basis for your argument. I don't know how on Earth (or kaiju dimension) you can call me out. America is the obvious lead nation, and mass action is the ideal. This is why we see the crowds of people all working on the body of the robot.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:America is the obvious lead nation, and mass action is the ideal. This is why we see the crowds of people all working on the body of the robot. Exactly one character in the entire group (aside from maybe Newt?) is American. There's not a lot of emphasis on the idea of America being the lead.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:America is the obvious lead nation Gipsy Danger is the only American Jaeger we even see. And Raleigh, Newt, and Hannibal Chow are the only (presumed) Americans in the film in general. The other Jaegers are Australian, Chinese, Russian, and Japanese, and Pentecost himself is supposed to be British. America is not the lead nation by any stretch.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:17
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:America is the obvious lead nation, and mass action is the ideal. This is why we see the crowds of people all working on the body of the robot. I guess you consider a pit crew mass action and the first part is blatantly untrue.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:22
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Xealot posted:Gipsy Danger is the only American Jaeger we even see. And Raleigh, Newt, and Hannibal Chow are the only (presumed) Americans in the film in general. The other Jaegers are Australian, Chinese, Russian, and Japanese, and Pentecost himself is supposed to be British. Honestly that was something I liked about the movie, even being American myself. The American Jaeger had its own team, its own gimmick, its own appeal. If all the Jaegers were American, they'd be less unique.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:25
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Xealot posted:Gipsy Danger is the only American Jaeger we even see. And Raleigh, Newt, and Hannibal Chow are the only (presumed) Americans in the film in general. The other Jaegers are Australian, Chinese, Russian, and Japanese, and Pentecost himself is supposed to be British. You're talking about the individuals' country of origin, and not the nation they represent. (They all live in Hong Kong, but we don't call them Chinese either.) The nations are represented not by geographical location but by the jaegers themselves. Recall the propaganda film from Children of Men, which lists the all nations that have fallen: "The World has collapsed. Only Britain soldiers on." We see the same with the Jaegers picked off one by one, until America prevails. It's not accidental that the various members of the PPDC are all part of the Global North, high GDP, or etc.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's not accidental that the various members of the PPDC are all part of the Global North, high GDP, or etc. I'm pretty sure not every nation bordering the Pacific can afford to field its own Jaeger, nor do they need to. I imagine the coverage for the field of operations of the Shatterdomes is sufficient that you don't need to place one in every single country. edit: Also I don't think one nation wouldn't scram their Jaegers if they detected a Kaiju heading towards one of their neighbors.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:39
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Slate Action posted:To everyone who got in on that Amazon/Heroclix deal, the item is now listed as "Currently unavailable," and on my end at least, has not shipped. I expect to see them cancelling the orders tonight or tomorrow. Mines "shipping now". Hope thats good news.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:41
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Panfilo posted:Honestly that was something I liked about the movie, even being American myself. The American Jaeger had its own team, its own gimmick, its own appeal. If all the Jaegers were American, they'd be less unique. I liked it on a whole Street Fighter level. Where the robots and their pilots are hilariously reductive stereotypes about their nation of origin. Crimson Typhoon is a giant red kung-fu robot representing the PRC. Cherno Alpha is a clunky assemblage of tanks and factory machines in gunmetal grey, accompanied by a Russian choir. Gipsy Danger itself had a whole cool retro aspect, there the name painted on the hull is like a 40's fighter plane, and the Becket brothers wore shearling leather aviator jackets. It's 90's-style multiculturalism, where ethnic and national labels are worn prominently on your sleeve. SuperMechagodzilla posted:You're talking about the individuals' country of origin, and not the nation they represent. (They all live in Hong Kong, but we don't call them Chinese either.) This isn't a relevant point. I'm talking about both. The only character who is from and actually represents the US is Raleigh Becket. Pentecost is decidedly multinational (of British origin, serving in Japan, Hong Kong, and the US at different times in his career), Mako is Japanese and only "represents" the US in that she eventually pilots Gipsy Danger, and every other Jaeger and pilot are clearly from and aligned with some specific non-American nation. There are themes of American exceptionalism because Gipsy Danger is the best fighting robot, but Mako's entire story is about conquering her fear and avenging her Japanese family. There isn't anything saliently "American" about it...in fact, based on all genre convention it references, it's a pretty Japanese narrative. Xealot fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 01:44
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Uncle Wemus posted:Mines "shipping now". Hope thats good news. Mines been there since this morning when I placed the order.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:44
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I've advocated for 'uniting against common enemies'. Clearly I do not consider it inherently fascist to do so. I've gone over the fascist aspects of the film in detail already. This concerns the specific choice of enemy and the specific type of unity. Read again. With regard to the type of unity, you said this: SuperMechagodzilla posted:a strong authoritarian leader who stages a militia uprising that exalts youth, virilty, masculinity (etc.) as traits that will give them the courage to pragmatically 'do what needs to be done' to regenerate the ailing nation (or nations in this case). You've got a strong authoritarian leader who is frequently wrong, succumbs to insubordination, asks specifically for obedience rather than loyalty or belief, and abdicates his position before the end. For youth, younger brother Raleigh and rookie Mako are the heroes, but Chuck, the character specifically defined by his youth, has to get humility literally beaten into him, and his heroic moment happens when he's finally accepted as his father's equal. Virility and masculinity I'll give you. But you don't have one word about how the most important relationship a ranger has is with their co-pilot, not with their commander or community. This is an even more anti-nationalistic idea than the international composition of the team. But regarding what type of enemy they're united against - you seem to be saying the kaiju are fought because they're the other. You can tell they're the other because... they're alive and the protagonists fight them? At any rate, there's only one type of common enemy that's not the other, and that's the kind that's nobody at all, an unpersonified force of nature, which is by far the strongest reading of the kaiju.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's not accidental that the various members of the PPDC are all part of the Global North, high GDP, or etc. Peru?
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Jul 19, 2013 01:45
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935 posted:I wouldn't want a prequel series because what made this movie exciting for me was how much the jaegers were the underdogs. They fought incredibly powerful kaiju and barely stayed alive. At every point I was thinking "it's over, the kaiju won." There wouldn't be any drama in a prequel series about the golden age of jaegers tearing down kaiju like they were nothing. They were modeled after Cherno Alpha (gigantic brute with electric/nuclear generator) and Crimson Typhoon (acrobat with third, rear-mounted, grasping/crushing appendage) for a sick-rear end mirror match.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:46
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You're talking about the individuals' country of origin, and not the nation they represent. (They all live in Hong Kong, but we don't call them Chinese either.) Because they can afford to build skyscraper tall fighting robots? That is pretty much going to be G20 territory. The Jaeger from Bangladesh would represent a vast percentage of their GDP (particularly in the near-lovely future with global climate shittyness), and if you tried to put it on film, it would be a hell of a tightrope to talk to make it at all representative to the world moviegoing audience as Bangladesh-ish without being grossly culturally ignorant and stereotyping. What would you even do? I don't mind that the only countries that can field space programs, stealth fighter programs, and blue water navies are in the giant fighting robot business.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:51
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Piell posted:If the sword is a phallus then what does it mean that Strike Eureka has labia-shaped knives? Also,  Level Slide posted:Has Tiffany "Asuka Langley Sohryu" Grant done any live-action stuff? She should be a pilot in the sequel. Figured she'd be all over that, considering she is literally an anime. She was in Arlington Road as one of Jeff Bridges' students. I'm not sure if she's got any lines though.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:52
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SMG's point about the represented nations in the film all being wealthy is definitely true. But I'd actually have preferred a version of this story that addressed systemic economic imbalances and the accompanying perceptions of the Third World. Because if wealthy developed nations like the US, Japan, and China are decimated by decay and resource drain, imagine what Bangkok or Lima must look like. A story about a poor nation building a Jaeger, and the international condescension from wealthier nations at the attempt, would've been pretty awesome. Apparently there are tons of them in the encyclopedia of world-building poo poo GDT and Travis Beacham put together.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:03
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