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Xealot posted:
The 'Cool Runnings' of the daikaiju genre.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:04
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Bongo Bill posted:With regard to the type of unity, you said this: I'm actually enjoying the microcosmic analogy people have identified in the thread, where I am the monster and Jeferoo is the fascist robot. All this pedantry is analogous to, I guess, the picky sniping of the fighter planes. No offense, I mean, but you're cutting out more than half the details to focus on little specifics like 'sometimes people question the charismatic authoritarian leader' (so therefore he's not an authority? The compelling speeches are retroactively cancelled out?). The copilots don't team up to the exclusion of everyone else. They team up to become productive members of the community, good soldiers who go to war against the kaiju for the nation. They disobey Stacker only only occasionally, and only so that they can better serve the nation. The kaiju are the other because of the imagery of slavery, abjection and exploitation. I've gone over that already too. That's why I called out that one dude. This is a way more fun movie to read and write about than to watch, but I'd prefer if people posted full-feldged readings instead of just reacting. Like, going on saying the American movie where the American robot prevails over other countries isn't nationalistic because one of the characters was technically born in Japan before becoming a literal part of the American machine. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 02:06
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SuperMechaGodzilla posted:kaiju blue = black goo The aliens in Pacific Rim are alternate dimension Weyland-Yutani. 
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Jul 19, 2013 02:06
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So Sideshow has a booth at SDCC. And welp...better start saving some cash.    
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Jul 19, 2013 02:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No offense, I mean, but you're cutting out more than half the details to focus on little specifics like 'sometimes people question the charismatic authoritarian leader' (so therefore he's not an authority? The compelling speeches are retroactively cancelled out?). Yeah, only you're allowed to do that.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:08
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Bonaventure posted:Yeah, only you're allowed to do that. What are you even talking about? I'm calling you out too.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What are you even talking about? I'm calling you out too. What do you think I'm talking about? The past 20 pages or whatever, where every post of yours has managed to ignore, misread or flat-out make up poo poo about the movie to fit the interpretation you've decided sounds really cool. Now, don't get me wrong: I say this with the utmost respect: I really appreciate the amount of thought and effort you've put into exposing yourself as a fraud.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:12
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So, you decline the challenge to post your reading of the film?
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Jul 19, 2013 02:13
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    More NCEA stuff.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:15
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So is Cherno Alpha just really hard to make or something?
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Jul 19, 2013 02:16
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Ok let me just load up EBSCOhost to find the article on Kristeva's "Powers of Horror" that I need to cite:Gatts posted:Humanity can achieve great and terrifying things in the face of overwhelming odds if they band together and don't build walls to keep themselves insular to reality and the world. It's a shallow film notable for its enthusiastic embrace of childhood fantasy that says very little beyond its advocacy and representation of multinationalism. If we must find metaphor, then let's look at what real-world issues are addressed by the text: if we accept the kaiju are "caused" by global warming, resulting in "hurricanes" like Katrina, then the film shows the nations putting aside their differences, pooling their resources to put things right. "Stop bickering and fix the planet." --noted fascist Guillermo del Toro
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Jul 19, 2013 02:19
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Slate Action posted:To everyone who got in on that Amazon/Heroclix deal, the item is now listed as "Currently unavailable," and on my end at least, has not shipped. I expect to see them cancelling the orders tonight or tomorrow. Both my orders are set to "Shipping Now" 
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Jul 19, 2013 02:19
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PaganGoatPants posted:More NCEA stuff. Look at those Heroclix  Mine have been in "shipping now" status for 5 hours before I even posted the link, sooooo  Slate Action posted:To everyone who got in on that Amazon/Heroclix deal, the item is now listed as "Currently unavailable," and on my end at least, has not shipped. I expect to see them cancelling the orders tonight or tomorrow. Everyone say thanks to the guy who ordered 25 boxes to resell. (unless you were being funny  )I should have stuck to my guns and withheld the info till after my stuff shipped 
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Jul 19, 2013 02:20
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I'm a bit late in discovering this thing.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:23
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A big article on how all the effects were done: http://www.fxguide.com/featured/monster-mayhem-pacific-rim/ Legacy Effects' videos on how they made the: 1. The Conn-Pods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEEvuYoKuFs 2. Suits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qBfMPFmmm4 3. Helmets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jBVOi8WX0U
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Jul 19, 2013 02:27
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Bonaventure posted:Ok let me just load up EBSCOhost to find the article on Kristeva's "Powers of Horror" that I need to cite: I really don't understand why you'd call someone a fraud when your apparent idea of art is that it is some sort of appendage of its creator, like if we lift off Les Demoiselles d'Avignon from the walls of MOMA, we'd find a thread leading all the way to Mougins or something. Surely, if an artistic work can stand on its own, then it can have meanings distinct from the thoughts of its creator, never mind the problems with assuming a single creator for a film.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:30
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I do not accept the idea of The Death of the Author and not every thread needs to be about The Death of the Author.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:31
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Bonaventure posted:Ok let me just load up EBSCOhost to find the article on Kristeva's "Powers of Horror" that I need to cite: I do appreciate that you suspended your usual style of posting a single vague and nonspecifically confrontational sentence, but: that's it? Your reading of the film is that the multinationalism is good, because the director probably didn't intend to make a fascist film. That's barely a DVD synopsis. I'm certain you're capable of better than this. How are the resources pooled? How do the nations fix global warming in real-world terms? How do you incorporate the imagery of war, ultraviolence and gore into the environmentalist reading? What political stance are you advocating?
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Jul 19, 2013 02:32
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Carteret posted:Mine have been in "shipping now" status for 5 hours before I even posted the link, sooooo One of my orders has officially shipped. Just got the confirmation email now with tracking info 
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Jul 19, 2013 02:37
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Just got shopping confirmation for my heroclix box, so looks like they're going out E: too slow
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Jul 19, 2013 02:38
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teagone posted:One of my orders has officially shipped. Just got the confirmation email now with tracking info "Your Amazon.com order of 'Pacific Rim Heroclix...' has shipped!" 
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Jul 19, 2013 02:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:How are the resources pooled? What does it matter? Isn't this the same kind of "tactical realism" complaint that this forum is always so eager to sniff at? quote:How do the nations fix global warming in real-world terms? Guillermo del Toro doesn't know, nor is it the point of the film. It is not an essay. It is a fantasy and the concepts are broadened and sublimated into monsters and robots. I don't have more to say than a DVD blurb because there's not more to say than a DVD blurb. The movie is a paean to childhood flights of fancy and imagination, with broad and not very thought-through environmentalist highlights around the edges, like Mako's hair.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:39
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Bonaventure posted:I do not accept the idea of The Death of the Author and not every thread needs to be about The Death of the Author. The author doesn't have to be dead for a work to carry meanings apart from those intended by the author, and ascribing a single author to a film is often difficult. I mean, if we go by what is being presented here, by you, the classics of Chinese literature are meaningless because we don't and can't know enough about the authors to make sure our interpretations are correct. Don't you think that this is an absurdly limited way of looking at art?
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Jul 19, 2013 02:39
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Kramjacks posted:I don't think the Kaiju can really be described as natural disasters. They are compared to hurricanes by characters in the film, but this is only in regards to heir destructive ability. A natural disaster is something that is endured, survived and the damage it did rebuilt in its wake, while the Kaiju are actively fought against. You don't build giant robotic tornados or earthquake machines to stop natural disasters. Unless we're talking about the sorts of natural disasters that may be caused by global warming, where the two main bodies of solutions - other than actually cutting carbon emissions - are protecting from the effects (e.g. building levees) and geoengineering (e.g. injecting aerosols into the upper atmosphere to reflect sunlight). Which is to say, either building walls to hide behind or directly combating it. Which is the two types of solutions in this movie. And, much like the levees in New Orleans, the movie presents the former as failing thanks to the malicious incompetence of the ruling class. Kramjacks posted:I had thought about this aspect, the baby Kaiju being a sort of secondary disaster, but its actually a boon for the characters. It gives them the brain they needed to drift with the Kaiju again. Which would be really weird if the kaiju are the abject poor. Drifting is love and the sort of people who want to eliminate the poor don't love them. However, awe and admiration are seen in scientists who study catastrophic weather. Newt is pretty drat similar to the storm-chasers in, say, Twister who desperately want to see a category 5 tornado. Which, while not as good a movie as Pacific Rim, features a similar plot of people seeking to understand a natural phenomenon that they stand in awe of but still want to protect people from, with one of the main characters a woman whose family was killed by that phenomenon as a child.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:39
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I don't know why, but I really liked the Russian Jaeger. Its kind of the 'Boba Fett' of the film- obviously badass looking, does virtually nothing, dies, but still really distinctive. I guess its the steampunk look to it. I feel like if the Kaiju attacked 100 years earlier, the Russian Jaeger would look exactly the same- its timeless, down to its asymmetrical helmets. The fact that it didn't let a Kaiju step foot in Vlodovostok and being a Mark I is pretty badass to me. Its just a shame there wasn't time/budget to do a 'recap' of Cherno Alph and Crimson Typhoon in the same way that Striker Eureka got to wreck face against Bladehead. Just show a little montage of each Jaeger unleashing its own wonder weapons/signature move.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:42
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Effectronica posted:The author doesn't have to be dead for a work to carry meanings apart from those intended by the author, and ascribing a single author to a film is often difficult. I mean, if we go by what is being presented here, by you, the classics of Chinese literature are meaningless because we don't and can't know enough about the authors to make sure our interpretations are correct. Don't you think that this is an absurdly limited way of looking at art? I tend to examine works of art through the cultural and historical context in which they are created, taking special consideration of how they are received by the general audience at the time of their creation. This gives us a fairly good idea of what an author was trying to say, even when that author is unknown. When the author is known, their words do carry weight. edit: for an example, take "The Duchess of Malfi." we don't know much about John Webster, but we do know Jacobean sexual mores and attitudes toward gender, and controversies in the era (viragoes, the querelles des femmes), and we know the sources on which Webster based his play. From this we can come to see that he has given us a portrait of a woman ruler and widow who asserts herself sexually, who in the source material and in the 'orthodox' morality of the day was and would have been condemned by society, but he has excised all condemnation in his treatment of the story, changing the character completely. From this we can see that he has given us a surprisingly progressive female figure in The Duchess, and I do not hesitate to say that it was his intent, and his contribution to the ongoing controversies. There, I just told you why a dead man wrote something the way he did. Bonaventure fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 02:43
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Slate Action posted:"Your Amazon.com order of 'Pacific Rim Heroclix...' has shipped!" Very nice. I guess they are honoring the 
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Jul 19, 2013 02:44
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gently caress YES SHIPPED. I'm sorry I ever doubted you,
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Jul 19, 2013 02:46
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Bonaventure posted:I tend to examine works of art through the cultural and historical context in which they are created, taking special consideration of how they are received by the general audience at the time of their creation. This gives us a fairly good idea of what an author was trying to say, even when that author is unknown. When the author is known, their words do carry weight. This is consistent, but I can't help but feel it treats artistic creations as dead things, permanently affixed in the past, and the goal of the reader being to place themselves as much in that past as possible. It seems to make art into a puzzle to be solved. I guess this is a philosophical difference at this point, though, and there's not much point in arguing about that here.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:48
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My toys shipped! I'm gonna cut apart a set of Jaegers and make a custom one for myself with some spare parts.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:49
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Bonaventure posted:I don't have more to say than a DVD blurb because there's not more to say than a DVD blurb. If that's all it means to you, then why do you come across as so angry in your otherwise-halfhearted defense of the film?
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Jul 19, 2013 02:51
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Kaiju made humanity in the film better people by giving them an other that they really can hate without guilt to take the place of hating each other. They don't represent a real despised class, but one that we wish existed that we'd be allowed to despise without guilt or negative consequences. If they're a stand in for real poor people or illegal immigrants or whatever it spoils the idea entirely. It's the pseudo-sequel to the comic Watchmen, only with live monsters in the Pacific instead of a dead one in NYC. It says Ozymandias (sp?) was right. e: Put another way, it's arguably a reducto ad absurdum for fascism, saying in effect that its rhetoric of unity against the outsider (only) becomes not revolting if it's applied to magic bioweapons from the 16th dimension. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 02:53
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Because reading your disingenuous criticism, and the deference it inspires (I disagree with you, but I'm probably just too dumb to get it!  ), makes me angry.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:How are the resources pooled? How do the nations fix global warming in real-world terms? How do you incorporate the imagery of war, ultraviolence and gore into the environmentalist reading? I think you can actually make an interesting parallel there. The human 'masters,' the leaders, the ones who initially created the Jaegers and who are now cutting them off except for a trickle to maintain defenses while THEIR personal protections are created, are much like the alien 'masters.' The difference being here that the alien masters, while largely an unknown, appear to have a dedication to their goals - they're creating more and more kaiju, to the point where the walls would be completely hopeless simply due to raw numbers. This blind venality, presumably motivated by something like 'saving money' (as if money matters if the planet is demolished!) would have doomed Earth to either literal destruction or annexation. Unified world action continues, and despite all the hampering efforts of the human 'masters,' succeeds through the determination of good people.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:56
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teagone posted:One of my orders has officially shipped. Just got the confirmation email now with tracking info Same here. Can't wait to get my fascist toys!
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Jul 19, 2013 02:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like, going on saying the American movie where the American robot prevails over other countries isn't nationalistic because one of the characters was technically born in Japan before becoming a literal part of the American machine. I don't think this is entirely wrong, but you're ignoring how quintessentially Japanese Mako Mori's whole story actually is. To an American audience, the idea that Gipsy Danger's the best fighting robot, thus its victory is a victory for America, is going to be more appreciable. But while that aspect is unfolding, you're also following this story of a young girl coping with a strict paternal hierarchy, who seeks vengeance against sea monsters for the honor of her family. I can bet you that a Japanese audience will probably react in a meta way to the overt references and tropes taken from Japanese media. It's an American film governed by Japanese narrative rules from kaiju films and anime, and that's self-consciously the point. Gipsy Danger is an American robot styled after anime, that becomes great when it has a Japanese pilot; it's sub-textually about this level of creative collaboration, underpinning a surface plot about nations cooperating. Even the totally generic blond, white American male lead is basically a brash Japanese stereotype about Americans, so he works on multiple levels of representation, as well. I mean to say, although a reading of the film as a generic pro-America screed is valid, it's also about its own (non-American) source material. Painting Mako Mori as an extension of American power because she's in an American robot is disingenuous, because she's modeled after any number of Japanese character archetypes that have their own nationalistic and cultural significance. You say she becomes American because she's inside Gipsy Danger. But other people may think Gipsy Danger becomes Japanese because Mako Mori is inside it. This is why people like Hideo Kojima are gushing about it being, "the ultimate otaku film that all of us had always been waiting for. Who are you, if you are Japanese and won't watch this?"
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Jul 19, 2013 02:59
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Bonaventure posted:Because reading your disingenuous criticism, and the deference it inspires (I disagree with you, but I'm probably just too dumb to get it! That's not really what 'disingenuous' means, and you seem to have confused the fact that my reading is oppositional with it being inaccurate. I know full well that the characters put numbers and codenames on the monsters, and call them hurricanes. I am criticizing the act of categorizing, not ignoring or denying it. I don't believe the exposition because the exposition is contradicted by the text. My reading pays attention to what is unsaid, like how the rioters are only given a brief soundbite. More to the point: when I point out fascist and anti-christological undertones in the film's narrative, with clear examples, and you say that the message is 'merely' that we should generically unite to fight global warming, then we're not actually disagreeing. However, the onus is now on you to show that you are not unwittingly advocating authoritarian fascism as the solution to global warming. You're saying we have to 'do something' but your refusal to spell out what that 'something' is puts you in a spot. We've already pretty much established that the film isn't communist, and it's obviously not apolitical. What do you think it is?
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Jul 19, 2013 03:10
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I don't think that SMG and Bonaventure are formally disagreeing in any sense. Bonaventure seems to be severely and adamantly restricting himself to the following claim: Guillermo del Toro, the irl human, does not self-identify as a fascist. Which, like... well, yeah. I'll buy that. Guess we're done here!
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Jul 19, 2013 03:13
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Panfilo posted:I don't know why, but I really liked the Russian Jaeger. Its kind of the 'Boba Fett' of the film- obviously badass looking, does virtually nothing, dies, but still really distinctive. Ditto. I wish I could remember what the hell its design reminded me of. Some games monster with two big bug eyes on the side of its head and a beak where Chernos cockpit is. Goddamn I can picture it but not place it...
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Jul 19, 2013 03:17
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I also have tracking numbers for both boxes of heroclix I ordered. I cannot wait to have a tiny Cherno Alpha and a tiny Gipsy Danger on my desk. I'm also saving up for a Sideshow Gipsy Danger. I need that statue.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:17
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