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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's not really what 'disingenuous' means, and you seem to have confused the fact that my reading is oppositional with it being inaccurate. I'm referring to the fact that it's intellectually dishonest actually, for instance: quote:the exposition is contradicted by the text. This is absolutely not true. What do you think the imagery of the wall breaking in Sydney was supposed to evoke? Why is the metaphor so consistent and repeated throughout the film? When is it contradicted? Because one of the monsters it turns out has a baby for a shock scare and a comedy scene? quote:the onus is now on you to show that you are not unwittingly advocating authoritarian fascism as the solution to global warming. Haha, what?
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Jul 19, 2013 03:17
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Carteret posted:gently caress YES SHIPPED. YEEEEESSSSSSSSS! My order has shipped as well!  My Goon co-worker is probably going to end up with my duplicate figures.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:17
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Uncle Wemus posted:Ditto. I wish I could remember what the hell its design reminded me of. Some games monster with two big bug eyes on the side of its head and a beak where Chernos cockpit is. Goddamn I can picture it but not place it... Wouldn't be Pyramid Head from the Silent Hill games would it? It's not quite what you describe though. 
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Jul 19, 2013 03:20
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jivjov posted:I also have tracking numbers for both boxes of heroclix I ordered. I cannot wait to have a tiny Cherno Alpha and a tiny Gipsy Danger on my desk. Assuming you GET those in the box? Isn't it random? 
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Jul 19, 2013 03:21
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Frunk posted:Same here. Can't wait to get my fascist toys! Aww yeah. My second box shipped. So I'm getting 48 figurines for $16. Amazing! My godson and I are going to be going nuts when they arrive 
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Jul 19, 2013 03:23
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Xealot posted:But other people may think Gipsy Danger becomes Japanese because Mako Mori is inside it. She also rebuilds and redesigns it. Gipsy Danger is as much an embodiment of multinational cooperation as its pilots. And they're all defending Hong Kong, which is a really great embodiment of the West in the East thing the movie is doing. And it's a solid piece of sci-fi to have the last refuge of the global elite be there, a real 21st-century city, instead of somewhere in America. SuperMechagodzilla posted:I don't believe the exposition because the exposition is contradicted by the text. Except for all the bits that support the natural-disaster reading and contradict yours, like the heavily repeated association made between the kaiju and an angry ocean. Not that you're wrong about the protagonists being technofascists, of course. That's part of the fun.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:26
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If somebody at SDCC runs into Travis Beacham or the other Pacific Rim crew, buy them a beer or something. Probably going to see the film again and may try to bring some more friends to the showing--has ever had a second weekend better than its first?
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Jul 19, 2013 03:30
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The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Pacific Rim - Advocating Authoritarian Fascism As The Solution To Global Warming
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Jul 19, 2013 03:30
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PaganGoatPants posted:Assuming you GET those in the box? Isn't it random? Well, there are 10 different figures and I've got 48 figures coming. Odds are good I'll have a complete set. If not, odds are even better than one of the many goons who also got a box or two will have duplicates to trade.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:33
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PaganGoatPants posted:Assuming you GET those in the box? Isn't it random? I imagine that all of the models will be in the box at some kind of specific distribution ratio, though the only thing I'm basing this off of is another toy company's blind bag practices. In the LEGO Mystery Minifigure series, each box has at least 1 of each of the 16 minifigures in that series, and I think each box has the exact same distribution. Remember, these boxes are meant for merchandising/point of sale/impulse buys/whatever.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:36
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I can't stop listening to the opening theme. I'm going to go insane but it is awesome and stirs my imagination. I've had a good creative output today for my ideas.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:40
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PaganGoatPants posted:A big article on how all the effects were done: http://www.fxguide.com/featured/monster-mayhem-pacific-rim/ Man I love this stuff. I haven't been as enamored with a fantasy world since I got the Star Wars Behind the Magic cds as a kid.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:44
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Xealot posted:I mean to say, although a reading of the film as a generic pro-America screed is valid, it's also about its own (non-American) source material. Painting Mako Mori as an extension of American power because she's in an American robot is disingenuous, because she's modeled after any number of Japanese character archetypes that have their own nationalistic and cultural significance. You say she becomes American because she's inside Gipsy Danger. But other people may think Gipsy Danger becomes Japanese because Mako Mori is inside it. I don't think it's a generic pro-America screed. This whole sidetrack began when gently caress This Puzzle posted that the film can't be advocating a Third Position-style political system because (in his view) there is no clear 'lead nation' to this confederation. I obviously disagree on multiple levels. For starters, I am reading of Pacific Rim as a 'Starship Troopers' propaganda film. Who is the POV character? Why are these details shown, and others omitted? What nation produced the entire film? Second, I don't think multinationalism and fascism are mutually exclusive. The lack of a central 'leader' nation is an extremely arguable technicality. Some of the nations obviously hold more sway than others, but I don't think that's a big point either way. That sort of 'but she's originally japanese' nitpicking muddies the waters and doesn't confront the fundamental question of "if it's not a type of fascist revolt, then what is it?" 'Cause it honks like a goose and steps like a goose, and no-one who disagrees has ventured to answer that question with examples from the text. That's all I'm really asking. Assuming that the resistance is not fascist, for a moment: what is it, then? Bonaventure posted:What do you think the imagery of the wall breaking in Sydney was supposed to evoke? Why is the metaphor so consistent and repeated throughout the film? When is it contradicted? Because one of the monsters it turns out has a baby for a shock scare and a comedy scene? To answer your questions, in order: -It's not 'supposed to' evoke anything, but does combine 'levee' imagery with the security walls and fences you see in Israel, the US-Mexico border, etc. See, I don't disagree with you except for your conviction that the monsters can represent only one thing. They are also clones and 'the social abject', etc. -Their classification system is a way of trying to categorize, objectivize and subjugate the unknown. It's a sign of the protagonists' weakness. -It's contradicted by the baby scene, and all the scenes where the aliens are shown to be physical creatures with thoughts, bodies, etc. -Yes, absolutely. My reading can incorporate the baby scene and your does not. My reading is stronger for not dismissing textual evidence. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 03:50
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Action-Movie-As-Fascism-Propaganda is almost as lazy a reading as Superhero-Origin-As-Gay-Awakening, and I think it kind of says something that SMG of all people has been reduced to using it in defense of his position.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That sort of 'but she's originally japanese' nitpicking muddies the waters and doesn't confront the fundamental question This is probably the most hilariously hypocritical and intellectually dishonest thing I've ever read on an internet forum before, holy poo poo. Either that, or record-breaking lack of self-awareness.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:54
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I'm having fun and thanks, but I gotta get going pretty soon. Feel like I'm kind of repeating myself anyway. Stacker isn't much of a glorified leader because nearly everything he does as a leader is wrong. He's wrong about keeping Mako out of the cockpit, wrong about not deploying Gypsy, wrong about not drifting with the kaiju brain, and wrong about whether the whole nuke plan would even work. He only ever succeeds as a ranger - when he gives his only inspiring speech (his others are real downers), he's wearing pilot's armor, not his suit. As a marshal - as an authority - he is a failure, whom the protagonists obey grudgingly or out of a sense of personal obligation. This film depicts a strong authoritarian leader, but it absolutely does not glorify the idea of following him. SuperMechagodzilla posted:The kaiju are the other because of the imagery of slavery, abjection and exploitation. I've gone over that already too. You're going to have to explain this one to me again. I can recall one scene using some abjection and exploitation imagery surrounding kaiju, most of which was overloaded with imagery that was not dehumanizing but nonhuman. I see three motifs here: kaiju as jaegers/vehicles, kaiju as weather, and kaiju as animals. Jaegers are vehicles, first off; the treasure hunter on that beach who finds Gypsy Danger washed up on shore dreams of finding "a whole ship" and gets something even better. Since we know that jaegers (especially Gypsy) and kaiju are basically the same thing, we know that Hannibal Chau is doing the same thing as the Alaskan: he's a treasure hunter, out looking for wrecked kaiju, and when his pirate crew finds one they send men in diving suits to retrieve it and they pack it up in treasure chests and they bury it in his private bunker. Was the slave imagery the shot of a kaiju corpse being carried on an aircraft carrier? What do aircraft carriers carry, again? Extreme weather and kaiju are linked right from the beginning, when Gypsy Danger walks into a storm to confront Knifehead as Raleigh narrates about how jaegers (built to fight kaiju one-on-one) are able to face storms head-on. The imagery is linked, too, in the way kaiju travel with the waves rather than against them, and appear when it's raining. Thematically, extreme weather caused by pollution is a kaiju invasion caused by pollution. Kaijus destroy cities like windstorms blowing away houses and earthquakes toppling skyscrapers, and we even see images of their remains piled up like debris, their footprints changing the contours of beaches. Finally, kaiju are animals. They look like animals, move like animals, fight like animals, hunt like animals, get distracted like animals, die like animals, and are made of exceptionally useful organs like animals. (Hannibal Chau uses every part of the kaiju.) And in the situations where they are born, they're born walking, full of claws and teeth, and ready to start killing immediately. Kaiju are never peaceful - they have one nature and that's to kill. It's worth remembering that kaiju are jaegers, and whereas jaegers are built to resemble humans, kaiju are grown to resemble animals. You might say that depicting the kaiju as animals is a means for abjecting them, as downtrodden groups are often compared to animals, but that would be a weak reading. Kaiju are not depicted like animals, but as animals. That kaiju are animalistic is not propaganda, unless you think the film is lying to you. What kind of ethnic other appears suddenly, makes no attempt at communication, has no visible culture (the protagonists have to use mind reading to learn anything about them), destroys mercilessly without even plundering, and is born ready and willing to kill? Historical precedent of any people being viewed thus, even in less exaggerated form, are rare, and no fascist state ever fought them. Fascism's fear of the other is the fear of infiltration and subversion, not the fear of extinction. If Pacific Rim is an endorsement of fascism, then it endorses only the very peculiar kind of fascism that is minimally militaristic, works better without its charismatic leader, celebrates internal pluralism, eschews chauvinistic symbols, doesn't much care what its followers believe in, and goes away once the threat is defeated. There's probably a name for that, but I'm drawing a blank. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 03:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I'm actually enjoying the microcosmic analogy people have identified in the thread, where I am the monster and Jeferoo is the fascist robot. All this pedantry is analogous to, I guess, the picky sniping of the fighter planes. I'm somewhat incredulous if you are serious because you have multiple times completely disregarded other people's a arguments that funds mentally refute your reading of the movie. It's an Internet forum so I can sympathize not being able or having the inclination to do a line by line refutation of all the different users you are arguing with. You have also spoken events that have occurred in the movie that are demonstratably false or cherry picked out of context and posited these as bulletproof fact. Again I was inclined to give the benefit of the doubt because we all misremember movies especially after having seen them once. But after following these posts and given those previous issues I'm more inclined to view these as deliberate tactics to "win" and maintain your lofty position as the Philosopher-King condecendingly dispensing your divine wisdom to educate the groundlings on how they should feel about the movie they dared enjoy. Some have said this is some sort of bizarre performance art, a written metaphor to replicate the clashes between Jaegars and Kaijus. I dont hang out in CD so Im sot sure if that is true. If that is the case good job, Goon! I fell for it and applaud you on a wonderful performance! But if you are actually serious, I find it hypocritical to decry other people's interpretations that don't meet your expectations while simultaneously moving the goal posts on your own is disengenuius at best and intellectual cowardice at worst.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
A military/pseudomilitary organization that is organized along clear lines of authority? You know what else is organized along clear lines of authority? A sandwich shop. Is that  too?
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Jul 19, 2013 03:57
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Sir Kodiak posted:Which would be really weird if the kaiju are the abject poor. Drifting is love and the sort of people who want to eliminate the poor don't love them. However, awe and admiration are seen in scientists who study catastrophic weather. Newt is pretty drat similar to the storm-chasers in, say, Twister who desperately want to see a category 5 tornado. Which, while not as good a movie as Pacific Rim, features a similar plot of people seeking to understand a natural phenomenon that they stand in awe of but still want to protect people from, with one of the main characters a woman whose family was killed by that phenomenon as a child. I never said anything about the Kaiju representing the poor. And if drifting is love then whats the deal with Stacker, who says that he brings literally nothing into the Drift? Is he devoid of love? Or is love actually not needed for the Drift to work?
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Jul 19, 2013 04:05
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Slo-Tek posted:A military/pseudomilitary organization that is organized along clear lines of authority? That doesn't answer the question. (The question was: "if it's not fascist what is it?" Your answer is: "not fascist.") With this analogy, are you saying the PPDC's private operation whose actions are designed to increase profitability? Is their resistance libertarian, in your view, or something along those lines?
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Jul 19, 2013 04:08
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Slo-Tek posted:A military/pseudomilitary organization that is organized along clear lines of authority? e: That said, operation of specialized military machinery in the defense of life and infrastructure is a much more compelling reason for some kind of command hierarchy, at least during the actual kaiju fights. During downtime they can have group meetings and select new Marshals if needed! 
Nessus fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 04:15
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quote:I'm somewhat incredulous if you are serious because you have multiple times completely disregarded other people's a arguments that funds mentally refute your reading of the movie. It's an Internet forum so I can sympathize not being able or having the inclination to do a line by line refutation of all the different users you are arguing with. You have also spoken events that have occurred in the movie that are demonstratably false or cherry picked out of context and posited these as bulletproof fact. Again I was inclined to give the benefit of the doubt because we all misremember movies especially after having seen them once. But after following these posts and given those previous issues I'm more inclined to view these as deliberate tactics to "win" and maintain your lofty position as the Philosopher-King condecendingly dispensing your divine wisdom to educate the groundlings on how they should feel about the movie they dared enjoy. It's the problem with arguing on the Internet, people are more concerned with winning than actually engaging and discussing. Hence the subposting replies because SMG sees himself as "above" a critical engagement of his posts, referring to me as a "fascist," time and time again, trying to pain himself in some sort of heroic light. AccountSupervisor posted:Guys just fyi I know(knew) Jefferoo in real life and he's kind of nutso so take everything he says with a grain of salt. No you don't. We haven't spoke in years. I'll be back in New York soon enough. See you! quote:Stacker isn't much of a glorified leader because nearly everything he does as a leader is wrong. He's wrong about keeping Mako out of the cockpit, wrong about not deploying Gypsy, wrong about not drifting with the kaiju brain, and wrong about whether the whole nuke plan would even work. He only ever succeeds as a ranger - when he gives his only inspiring speech (his others are real downers), he's wearing pilot's armor, not his suit. As a marshal - as an authority - he is a failure, whom the protagonists obey grudgingly or out of a sense of personal obligation. This film depicts a strong authoritarian leader, but it absolutely does not glorify the idea of following him. The problem with this is he has perfectly legitimate concerns for not doing such things - his fear of taking a risk on Mako, who almost blasts away half the place. They have four Jaegers left and can't spare resources, the Kaiju brain is a massive risk that nearly gets Newt killed. The blame for things going wrong here isn't at his feet. quote:Action-Movie-As-Fascism-Propaganda is almost as lazy a reading as Superhero-Origin-As-Gay-Awakening, and I think it kind of says something that SMG of all people has been reduced to using it in defense of his position. Coming together to build big things to overcome seemingly impossible obstacles is apparently fascist, I'll be sure to call NASA. It's funny, really, because Pacific Rim is similar to this very forum - we've all lived under the shadow of SMG and his supposed intellectualism, some of us have even become SMG-lovers, buying avatars similar to Kaiju tattoos, and it was one final push, one final film, that finally broke him, from outright getting events of the film wrong to accusing the first one crazy enough to get on his level a gigantic fascist, quoting ancient Italian texts without context, not directly engaging me in a subreply technique, and the women calling him out on the sword = penis nonsense - we might as well cement this thread as the moment the supposed monster that looked down upon us all fell, rambling, hissing "fascist! faaassscissst!"
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Jul 19, 2013 04:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That doesn't answer the question. (The question was: "if it's not fascist what is it?" Your answer is: "not fascist.") Does a resistance whose goal is to protect the lives of their fellow man by destroying a monstrous force of nature necessarily have to have a political ideology attached to them?
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Jul 19, 2013 04:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:if it's not a type of fascist revolt, then what is it?" 'Cause it honks like a goose and steps like a goose, and no-one who disagrees has ventured to answer that question with examples from the text. That's all I'm really asking. Although I disagree with the assertion that it's specifically all that American, I actually do agree that the PPDC is pretty fascist. I say this because the entire perspective of the movie is that civilian governments are obtuse morons, and the PPDC is unilaterally controlled by a military leader, who believes with absolute chauvinist confidence that a specific kind of military culture is the only solution to this problem. I mean, in the context of the movie, that belief is "correct," but that's how propaganda works. Though I don't see it as problematic for the audience, because we don't actually have a multinational military force centered around fighting robots. It's mostly just funny that robots punching lizard-beasts is taken so seriously. Though I don't think the kaiju are substantially more "the other" than any monster in any movie. District 9 is just a way more coherent text toward which to apply that argument.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:23
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Jefferoo posted:It's the problem with arguing on the Internet, people are more concerned with winning than actually engaging and discussing. Hence the subposting replies because SMG sees himself as "above" a critical engagement of his posts, referring to me as a "fascist," time and time again, trying to pain himself in some sort of heroic light. Wait, but you're the guy who paints yourself and everyone who joins in on your active, vigorous, and most crucially non-intellectual endeavor in a heroic light. You've also carefully labeled your own hated outsider as simultaneously an indomitable, oppressive tyrant and a craven, powerless wretch whose doom is even now at hand. I'm not sure what you think you're objecting to or why you feel yourself to have been mischaracterized.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:24
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SMG I think you are awesome and a cool dude, but sometimes a giant robot punching a giant monster in the face is just a giant robot punching a giant monster in the face.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:24
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Xealot posted:Although I disagree with the assertion that it's specifically all that American, I actually do agree that the PPDC is pretty fascist. Is this necessarily fascist? It comes off to me as something that could easily be Marxist vanguard party stuff.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:26
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Ferrinus posted:Wait, but you're the guy who paints yourself and everyone who joins in on your active, vigorous, and most crucially non-intellectual endeavor in a heroic light. You've also carefully labeled your own hated outsider as simultaneously an indomitable, oppressive tyrant and a craven, powerless wretch whose doom is even now at hand. Except this was after he drew the battle line - instead of directly arguing with me, he resorted to subreplies and declarations of fascism. It's a purely reactionary observation made from watching this discussion play out. I don't think SMG is a tyrant, I think he argues from an intellectually dishonest position and seeks to be "above it all," instead of honestly discussing and engaging with the film, and gaining insight from it. I'm just here to talk about and engage with a film I greatly enjoyed and gain greater insight and appreciation of it, I don't think that makes me a hero or whatever. From that video I posted in General Chat - "I am not a rapper." quote:Is this necessarily fascist? It comes off to me as something that could easily be Marxist vanguard party stuff. I think, and to some extent justly so, there is a kneejerk reaction to strong collective authority being shown as somewhat effective in cinema. Yet what supposedly fascist acts does the PPDC commit? It's directly funded and criticized by the governments of the world which contribute in many ways, Pentecost doesn't see himself as better than anyone, quite simply a last man standing for people to fall back on. His role is more necessity than the seeking of power or personal greed. What the film directly shows is, yes, a not perfect, but competent and strong, stern person in authority - that isn't automatically fascist. Jefferoo fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 04:29
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DerLeo posted:Is this necessarily fascist? It comes off to me as something that could easily be Marxist vanguard party stuff. Well, authoritarian. I say fascist because there aren't any particularly Communist or Marxist indicators to go along with it that I saw; I guess the drift could be perceived as a Communist concept.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:32
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Jefferoo posted:Except this was after he drew the battle line - instead of directly arguing with me, he resorted to subreplies and declarations of fascism. It's a purely reactionary observation made from watching this discussion play out. But there's no argument to be had. You've read the movie as an endorsement of technocratic fascism and as far as I can tell SMG has agreed entirely. Why are you taking this so personally? You seem to be really sensitive about it, to the point that you're imagining condescension and duplicity where none exist. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 04:33
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That doesn't answer the question. (The question was: "if it's not fascist what is it?" Your answer is: "not fascist.") At this point I think I have forgotten the definition of Fascism. Is Fascism a Sandwhich Shop? because I think I'm hungry now, thanks thread. More to the point, why don't you give us an example of an action film, in the vein of our beloved Pacific Rim, that is specifically NOT giving out a Fascist message? Are all Superhero films Fascist? Are all action films featuring an army/resistance of any kind fascist? Please, sir, educate us. In fact, I propose a challenge, why don't you give us an outline of a film that features giant robots killing Kaiju that is NOT fascist?
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Jul 19, 2013 04:35
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Ferrinus posted:But there's no argument to be had. You've read the movie as an endorsement of technocratic fascism and as far as I can tell SMG has agreed entirely. Why are you taking this so personally? You seem to be really sensitive about it, to the point that you're imagining condescension and duplicity where none is taking place. The intellectually dishonest position of suggesting that because I think people should work together to achieve larger goals makes me a fascist is loving tired and exhausting. My first post was calling out the fact that Pacific Rim creates a universe where the inactive philosopher is not capable of contributing to standing up against a massive global threat and that drives people like SMG loving nuts.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:37
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Kannen posted:In fact, I propose a challenge, why don't you give us an outline of a film that features giant robots killing Kaiju that is NOT fascist? Oh, that's easy. They battle them with the power of song. Instead of killing them, they befriend them via the power of positive emotions conveyed through the universal language of music.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:39
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ImpAtom posted:Oh, that's easy. Isn't that Macross?
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Jul 19, 2013 04:42
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Jefferoo posted:The intellectually dishonest position of suggesting that because I think people should work together to achieve larger goals makes me a fascist is loving tired and exhausting. My first post was calling out the fact that Pacific Rim creates a universe where the inactive philosopher is not capable of contributing to standing up against a massive global threat and that drives people like SMG loving nuts. Well, no. See, there you go again, projecting your own hangups onto the people you're talking to. Has anyone, in fact, even called you a fascist? Certainly you've been posting fascist rhetoric, but presumably that's all in good fun and just a way to make your fascist reading of the film stand out more in the reader's eyes. It definitely got me to take notice.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:42
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Bongo Bill posted:I can recall one scene using some abjection and exploitation imagery surrounding kaiju [...] I'm gonna contest your saying there is 'one scene' of abjection, when the kaiju are constantly being ripped open, spilling blood and guts everywhere. Their viscera is all over the film. The film doesn't exist in a vacuum either. Kaiju are usually characters, often heroes. Godzilla is a 'personified' force of nature who became an anticapitalist hero in 1964. Mothra is intelligent and uses hurricane-force winds to fight for Jesus. I do think the film is misleading and deceptive; there is enough said that you can tell what is unsaid. I argue that the kaiju are not canonically devoid of personality but that we are denied that level of identification. See Transformers, Man of Steel, Dawn of the Dead, and Battle: Los Angeles where the best characters identify with dogs. All we are allowed to see of the Kaiju are their 'irrational' outbursts of violence. Although the 9/11 imagery is not as strong as in Cloverfield and other recent films, the 'terrorist' aspect of the monsters should not be discounted. Also: minimally militaristic? Really? I don't think the film is nearly as critical of Stacker as you're saying. his character is extremely similar to Michael Ironside's in Starship Troopers - the vet who instructs the new recruits then inspirationally puts on the uniform one last time. He's an overprotective father figure, but still a father figure. The nations are united by their shared hatred of the feminine kaju and even have slurs like 'kaiju groupie' to berate people and keep them in line. That belief is the essential uniting factor. There's also no sign in the film that they'll willingly disband the organization now that the war is over.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:42
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Kannen posted:Isn't that Macross? I fail to see the problem with this. 
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Jul 19, 2013 04:43
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Kannen posted:More to the point, why don't you give us an example of an action film, in the vein of our beloved Pacific Rim, that is specifically NOT giving out a Fascist message? Are all Superhero films Fascist? Are all action films featuring an army/resistance of any kind fascist? Please, sir, educate us. Also, I've already proposed a film where the kaiju and humans team up against their mutual oppressors. Pay attention.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:See Transformers, Man of Steel, Dawn of the Dead, and Battle: Los Angeles where the best characters identify with dogs. ImpAtom posted:I fail to see the problem with this. Who said that was a problem? Since this got made, I'm hoping we get a exhausting flood of giant robot movies, a non-fascistic Macross/Robotech being one of them!
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Jul 19, 2013 04:52
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Ferrinus posted:Well, no. See, there you go again, projecting your own hangups onto the people you're talking to. Has anyone, in fact, even called you a fascist? Certainly you've been posting fascist rhetoric, but presumably that's all in good fun and just a way to make your fascist reading of the film stand out more in the reader's eyes. It definitely got me to take notice. It's exhausting because I've stated this is a film I enjoy and that it is not fascist and when you keep saying that this film I enjoy I have generated a fascist reading of, you are directly inferring that I am fascist. This is an intellectually dishonest road not worth going down. quote:I do think the film is misleading and deceptive; there is enough said that you can tell what is unsaid. I argue that the kaiju are not canonically devoid of personality but that we are denied that level of identification. See Transformers, Man of Steel, Dawn of the Dead, and Battle: Los Angeles where the best characters identify with dogs. All we are allowed to see of the Kaiju are their 'irrational' outbursts of violence. Although the 9/11 imagery is not as strong as in Cloverfield and other recent films, the 'terrorist' aspect of the monsters should not be discounted. You are "denied" it because it is directly tied into their origin - they have more in line with Predator drones than dogs, as has been explained time and time again. quote:Also: minimally militaristic? Really? I don't think the film is nearly as critical of Stacker as you're saying. his character is extremely similar to Michael Ironside's in Starship Troopers - the vet who instructs the new recruits then inspirationally puts on the uniform one last time. He's an overprotective father figure, but still a father figure. The nations are united by their shared hatred of the feminine kaju and even have slurs like 'kaiju groupie' to berate people and keep them in line. That belief is the essential uniting factor. There's also no sign in the film that they'll willingly disband the organization now that the war is over. Except he doesn't... instruct... any recruits. Mako has a bunch of simulator experience and outside training, and Raleigh instructs her more than anyone else with his personal experience. The Kaiju aren't "feminine" - they are robotic. This is part of their origin, where they come from - they have organic construction but are built and created by the race on the other side of the rift solely to destroy. No truly organic creature has this sort of presence and/or desire. They have no purpose beyond wreaking havoc. You are demanding a film that quite simply is not there and it would defy the purpose of the film and it's themes to make the changes you so desire. To bring this back to how this film awakens that childlike sort of fantasy, you're the loner kid in the group throwing a temper tantrum because it's not the film you wanted, and no matter how hard someone tries to calm you down by clarifying and explaining facts of the film you've ever so mistaken time and time again, you double down on the tried and true Zizek quotes and accusations of fascism.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:53
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