|
Yeah I'm going to have to watch the Japanese dub at some point.PirateNipple posted:I went in as cold as I could, only knowing it was about robots and aliens. I dragged my 58 year old dad with me, we both loving loved it. All I knew about it was that it had giant robots in it (from seeing a poster in a bush shelter) and when I went into IRC to say "holy poo poo someone's making a mecha movie" I learned that it was about punching giant monsters and that they call them kaiju as a nod to Godzilla. That was enough to get me to go see it, and everything else in it was a total surprise. I was actually kind of expecting the movie to take place at the start of the kaiju war instead of going over it in a few minutes. At the start I was a bit disappointed that it skipped over that with just a few minutes of background. Of course the disappointment went away almost instantly but I still feel like I want a movie from the beginning. The Tales from Year Zero comic added a bit to the characters' backstory but I was hoping for more.
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 22:05 |
|
|
PirateNipple posted:I went in as cold as I could, only knowing it was about robots and aliens. I dragged my 58 year old dad with me, we both loving loved it. My dad and I had the same reaction to the movie. It's a 10-year-old movie for all ages. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 21:49
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Just as a general observation, it is interesting to me in this thread how the monsters are sometimes referred to as sentient, unthinking, weapons of mass destruction while at the same are also considered to have cunning, ideas, and intention.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 22:04
|
|
|
The movie is apparently being taken out of rotation at my local theater already. Ugh...I haven't had a chance to go again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 22:18
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:Nope. A soldier can go on to do many things with his life but a Kaiju is an assembled weapon that is sent out to destroy and be destroyed. Trying to connect that to immigrants or whatever says more about you than it does about the movie. We don't actually know anything about what the Kaiju might do otherwise because we are given only a very small glimpse of their world. If all you ever saw of soldiers was them killing and being killed you would probably imagine much the same about them. Your stance also raises some troubling ethical questions. In "The Island" clones are created to serve as organ farms for the original person off of which the clone is based. They are "assembled" for the purpose of being destroyed to keep others alive. By your reasoning those clones are equivalent to Kaiju, simple biological tools that were build only to serve some specific purpose. That they are organic and sentient apparently doesn't matter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 22:46
|
|
|
Saw it last night. I can't articulate how much fun I had watching the movie. Just really awesome visuals. Despite the so so acting and dialogue, I loved it. Jaegers and Kaijus fighting is more than enough to keep me entertained. Too bad we didn't see it in IMAX. My friend said she enjoyed this movie more than Man of Steel. We actually only saw the trailer for Pacific Rim for the first when we watched Man of Steel. It was enough for us to want to see this movie. Like everyone, this movie just reminds us all of the joy we get in watching animes with mechas and monsters in them. It also reminded me of how much fun I had playing Xenogears.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:We don't actually know anything about what the Kaiju might do otherwise because we are given only a very small glimpse of their world. If all you ever saw of soldiers was them killing and being killed you would probably imagine much the same about them. Your stance also raises some troubling ethical questions. In "The Island" clones are created to serve as organ farms for the original person off of which the clone is based. They are "assembled" for the purpose of being destroyed to keep others alive. By your reasoning those clones are equivalent to Kaiju, simple biological tools that were build only to serve some specific purpose. That they are organic and sentient apparently doesn't matter. Except Newt literally reads their mind(s) (how do you refer to a hive mind in that situation?). We know full well what they're planning on doing: killing as many humans as possible and then taking ownership of their new vermin-free planet. He literally uses the phrase "Take out the vermin".
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 23:08
|
|
|
Polaron posted:Except Newt literally reads their mind(s) (how do you refer to a hive mind in that situation?). We know full well what they're planning on doing: killing as many humans as possible and then taking ownership of their new vermin-free planet. He literally uses the phrase "Take out the vermin". Where did I say that they weren't planning on doing that? The point is that they are sentient creatures, not automatons or drones. They have minds that can be read, they are apparently capable of feeling pain and show some level of intelligence and curiosity. They are conscripted soldiers or beasts of war. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Prepare you wallets. 
PaganGoatPants fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jul 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 23:39
|
|
|
What differentiates a Kaiju from an advanced drone over Pakistan in terms of ability and agency? Use sources from the movie and related materials.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 23:40
|
|
|
A drone doesn't scream OH GOD I'M IN PAIN
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 23:47
|
|
|
PaganGoatPants posted:Prepare you wallets. Can't fit in my pants with the giant boner I have.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 23:48
|
|
|
Shadeoses posted:What differentiates a Kaiju from an advanced drone over Pakistan in terms of ability and agency? Use sources from the movie and related materials.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 00:09
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:A drone doesn't scream OH GOD I'M IN PAIN Neither does a Kaiju. Leatherback gets his ears boxed so badly his skull fractures visibly in multiple ways and shows no reaction to it. He has his arm blown off and keeps struggling. Knifehead has a plasma cannon blow a hole in it and is blasted back into the Pacific. It jumps right back out of the water to do more damage to Gipsy Danger. Slattern is literally blown up by a nuclear bomb and appears, bedraggled but still somehow menacing, to kill Gipsy. Animals run away if you hurt them. Kaiju just keep coming until they are non-functional. Like a robot. Or a drone.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 00:12
|
|
|
Any clue what else is in NECA's third series? If it came with Coyote Tango as well, I'd be thrilled.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 00:14
|
|
|
PaganGoatPants posted:Prepare you wallets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs  How soon can I waste my cash
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 00:18
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:We don't actually know anything about what the Kaiju might do otherwise because we are given only a very small glimpse of their world. If all you ever saw of soldiers was them killing and being killed you would probably imagine much the same about them. Your stance also raises some troubling ethical questions. In "The Island" clones are created to serve as organ farms for the original person off of which the clone is based. They are "assembled" for the purpose of being destroyed to keep others alive. By your reasoning those clones are equivalent to Kaiju, simple biological tools that were build only to serve some specific purpose. That they are organic and sentient apparently doesn't matter. sentience implies that they are totally independent, though. they aren't. every creature from the other side of the rift is connected together. you can say they are a collective sentience, but not much else. and that collective wants the vermin dead.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
Dred Cosmonaut posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs Gotta admit, that's a pretty awesome anthem. I feel like swinging my fist around when I hear it. edit: Russians are cool  Hey what's the rule about direct-linking images from tumblr, is that okay? Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jul 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Neither does a Kaiju. Leatherback gets his ears boxed so badly his skull fractures visibly in multiple ways and shows no reaction to it. He has his arm blown off and keeps struggling. Knifehead has a plasma cannon blow a hole in it and is blasted back into the Pacific. It jumps right back out of the water to do more damage to Gipsy Danger. Slattern is literally blown up by a nuclear bomb and appears, bedraggled but still somehow menacing, to kill Gipsy. Where would the Kaiju run to? keep in mind on the other side of the Throat they are visually constrained and painfully operated upon. The only time they are empowered enough to be able to move around freely do they appear on Earth, where they are hounded until death because they threaten, as the characters see it, their way of life. They are destructive without a doubt, but there's wonderful contrast in this portrayal on screen. When Otachi breaks through to Newt in the bunker, destructively, but also shows a tender response to him when inside(importance of Kaiju blue factors into this). This is after the first real attempt at communication with them, again it's more about identifying a flaw in the characters, their perception of the Kaiju threat and drilling home the single solution to the problem without reflection but blind conviction. It's not about needing a ethical disclaimer of, No Kaiju was harmed during the making of this movie, it's all about identifying the flaw in the characters that raise ethical questions. Supporting a structural solution to a problem as the only solution whilst simultaneously showing and telling you that it's failing or has potentially horrible consequences. They enjoy the conflict resolution of killing Kaiju through the Jaeger program the only thing that disrupted their happiness is when the Kaiju fought back. brawleh fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jul 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 01:00
|
|
|
After the first speech by Charlie Day I thought he was going to go all How To Train Your Dragon, and use the Kaiju to fight their masters. They even looked a bit like the big dragon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 01:10
|
|
|
This might sound facile but the tag line from the movie is we created Monsters to fight Monsters. I personally do not take this as a superficial similarity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 01:47
|
|
|
Ravel posted:After the first speech by Charlie Day I thought he was going to go all How To Train Your Dragon, and use the Kaiju to fight their masters. They even looked a bit like the big dragon. Maybe they're saving that for later. Knock on wood.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 01:47
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Maybe they're saving that for later. Knock on wood. Del Toro mentioned something about Kaiju/Jaeger hybrids for a sequel.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 02:01
|
|
|
Shadeoses posted:What differentiates a Kaiju from an advanced drone over Pakistan in terms of ability and agency? Use sources from the movie and related materials. Does a soldier under orders have agency? A slave? This is, of course, ignoring how stupid this comparison is given that drones are not biological constructs with DNA, and a central nervous system, and a recognizable animal biology. The film visual presentation doesn't say "automaton", it says "relatively advanced animal." Your interpretation is the one that fails to jive with what the movie presents. Colon Semicolon posted:sentience implies that they are totally independent, though. they aren't. every creature from the other side of the rift is connected together. you can say they are a collective sentience, but not much else. and that collective wants the vermin dead. Why would it imply this? Jaeger pilots are likewise participating in a shared consciousness when they are in the drift, but they are still sentient and also capable of independent thought, hence Raleigh being surprised by the sword. The movie also doesn't give any information other than a throwaway line about a hive mind, so we have no idea how it functions other than that they can share memories. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Neither does a Kaiju. Leatherback gets his ears boxed so badly his skull fractures visibly in multiple ways and shows no reaction to it. He has his arm blown off and keeps struggling. Knifehead has a plasma cannon blow a hole in it and is blasted back into the Pacific. It jumps right back out of the water to do more damage to Gipsy Danger. Slattern is literally blown up by a nuclear bomb and appears, bedraggled but still somehow menacing, to kill Gipsy. Obviously when soldiers are injured in battle but do not immediately flee for their lives the only logical assumption is that they cannot feel pain. When a boxer takes a clean punch and just keeps walking forward it is not because he has concerns that override the temporary sensation of pain and push him to continue, it is because he literally cannot fear pain. Unless a thing says, out loud "Ouch, I am in pain now!" and then runs away in full flight it is not in pain. This is why I know that Raleigh also cannot feel pain, because his arm is badly injured while fighting a Kaiju and yet he keeps fighting it. euphronius posted:This might sound facile but the tag line from the movie is we created Monsters to fight Monsters. I personally do not take this as a superficial similarity. There are a fair number of parallels that the movie draws between us and the beings on the other side of the portal but there seems to be a lot of resistance to that idea because having subtext might ruin the joy of watching big cgi toys get smashed together for two hours. I'm not sure why depth would make it less compelling, but I'm also not a child and am okay with ambiguity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
teagone posted:Del Toro mentioned something about Kaiju/Jaeger hybrids for a sequel. But what side will it be fighting for? Both sides have something from the other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 02:31
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:There are a fair number of parallels that the movie draws between us and the beings on the other side of the portal but there seems to be a lot of resistance to that idea because having subtext might ruin the joy of watching big cgi toys get smashed together for two hours. I'm not sure why depth would make it less compelling, but I'm also not a child and am okay with ambiguity. Uh I'm pretty sure the people bringing up that whole Kaiju=Jaeger idea you like are the ones rejecting all the subtext.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 02:46
|
|
|
xxEightxx posted:But what side will it be fighting for? Both sides have something from the other. They'll be programmed to fight for us, Newt will obviously have one as a wacky sidekick and teach the other kaiju about friendship and the power of fascism to bring us all together for a greater good*. *Fascism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 02:48
|
|
|
At the end of this movie a Jaeger bomb saves the world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 03:10
|
|
|
failedninja posted:Uh I'm pretty sure the people bringing up that whole Kaiju=Jaeger idea you like are the ones rejecting all the subtext. Hrm, we are attacked by colonizers who find a planet with untapped resources, displace or utterly wipe out the native inhabitants, strip the land of all of it's natural resources, cause massive toxic climate change, and then move on to the next area and start all over again. There's definitely no pointed parallels to be drawn there. They are trying to kill us with giant biological robots that participate in some type of hive mind or shared consciousness. We are fighting them with giant mechanical robots piloted by people participating in a shared consciousness or hive mind. That balance probably isn't accidental. We are the aliens 20,000 years in the future. We will run our planet dry and move on to another, and when we wipe out the indigenous life forms we will claim that it was necessary for survival (perhaps we needed oh, I don't know, "living space") and it was either us or them. The movie explicitly states that we have been terraforming the planet through climate change to make it more hospitable for the aliens. A character actually says that we are turning our world into theirs. It's not subtle. It's barely even subtext at that point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 03:21
|
|
|
brawleh posted:Where would the Kaiju run to? keep in mind on the other side of the Throat they are visually constrained and painfully operated upon. Stop saying this. I just saw the movie again and they most certainly are not visibly painfully operated on. We see a grand total of two Kaiju 'under construction' (both apparently Knifehead types, as are all of the ones in the, for lack of a better term, 'holding area'). The first Kaiju we see under construction seems to be having an arm assembled. We see it work its jaw somewhat but by no means is it roaring, in pain or otherwise. The second Kaiju we see under construction is completely motionless and doesn't even have skin yet. Its mouth is open, but like I said the thing doesn't even appear to be alive yet, much less roaring in pain. As for the Knifeheads being held in the holding area? They seem pretty chill. None of them are roaring or struggling, they're just kinda..Hanging out. Almost like they have no drive until they're given a command. And, again, we certainly didn't 'hound' Trespasser until after it tore down the Golden Gate Bridge and started obliterating San Francisco. The first thing the very first Kaiju did when "empowered to move around freely" after leaving the Breach was make a beeline for a populated coastal city and start killing the vermin. And then the next one did the same thing. We didn't have a Jaeger available to fight them until Kaiju Number 4. But maybe Kaijus 5-50 were different and just needed to be listened to. Polaron fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jul 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 04:04
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:Hrm, we are attacked by colonizers who find a planet with untapped resources, displace or utterly wipe out the native inhabitants, strip the land of all of it's natural resources, cause massive toxic climate change, and then move on to the next area and start all over again. There's definitely no pointed parallels to be drawn there. It's not. Hannibal Chau and the president are unambiguously bad guys. Sorry about poking you and making you vomit all of that. I just meant that I think people observed the thing you think they are not observing, that's all. Carry on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 04:07
|
|
|
Nessus posted:A drone does not, typically, bear live young. I think there's a pretty strong parallel with Grey Eagles launching Longbow Hellfire missiles. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 05:33
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:The movie is apparently being taken out of rotation at my local theater already. Ugh...I haven't had a chance to go again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 06:26
|
|
|
brawleh posted:It's not about reverence, it all comes back to the characters(Kaiju included) the fundamental differences how we're reading them and their interaction and perception of the world, how the only acceptable solution is to maintain the structures in place within in the movie(Jaegers) in dealing with the Other(Kaiju). I'm not treating them solely in the singular abstract but in consideration of the whole picture. It's fair to say it's about empathy, if you see someone or an animal in pain do you need that spelled out explicitly in order to actually recognize it. Fine, naïveté then? It's like you don't understand nuance, as if you don't understand that just because something is composed out of muscles and nerves as opposed to pistons and cables, it doesn't need to feel pain or to be similar to you in any way. As if you had this organic/non-organic divide in your brain, and "everything that's organic=good". Because it makes you empathise with it, see. quote:It would be very easy to categorize human soldiers as biological weapons in that example using the frame work of the movie and this thread, the problem with bigotry is it's simplicity, that's it charm you don't have to think too much just accept as it because of course, for example, immigrants want to take your jobs and home away from you and don't feel anything remotely close to actual empathy in regards to the 'Other' because they will destroy your way of life. I'll omit the reference to immigrants, which is highly disingenuous, because the Kaiju are nothing like peaceful immigrants - this is the key distinction that you don't want to accept. They are not like aliens in District 9, or in Starship Troopers. At the beginning of the film, people in the movie assume that they are animals driven through the portal by aggressive instincts. But we quickly learn that any attempts to understand them have failed. Thanks to Newt, we know why, and that it's a very good reason for that. They are not animals, they are weapons. Soldiers as weapons is also an unfair comparison, though. Humans are sapient, so genetic effects could be counteracted through culture. But the Kaiju are produced and shipped off; they don't have to be indoctrinated or desensitised, their extreme aggression towards the "vermin" is instinctive. At most what we could do would be take over their programming. Become their masters. Maybe force them to suicide. But I think this would make for a much more horrible ending.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 06:27
|
|
|
Fucknag posted:Pacific Rim cosplayers, better give it up now cause you're never gonna beat this Cherno Alpha.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 06:27
|
|
|
"If you see black uniform you should also know bad, bad, bad" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkOqiweYfwQ Watch that short video, note that Verhoeven thinks of it as his opinion and not trying to assert it as truth he also places emphasis on subtely and nuance. This is a little more discussion about colour, more specially value represented through Black and it's direct relationship with White, how it pertains to Raleigh. At the start of the film Raleigh and his brother can be seen in white armored suits when piloting a Jaeger, his eagerness at wanting to go out and fight the Kaiju is a child like one. This innocence about the true cost of war being symbolised before us, because ignorance really is bliss. This has importance in that it's reflected in his actions through the Knifehead fight when he underestimates the creature, due in no small part because of his child like wonder and belief in the Jaeger program, as it empowers him. His character arc isn't terribly complex but it should be carefully examined because we're identify him with the hero's journey. After the loss of his brother he still hasn't given up faith in the Jaeger program as the best way to deal with Kaiju, the tragedy was he lost his Jaeger. When we later seem him in the Hong Kong fight, his armour is black, the significance here is that he is spelling out that belief in the Jaegers solving perceived problem in the form of the Kaiju. The difference is now he doesn't wholly underestimate them, now he just wants the to really hurt them. We see this on screen in the Leatherback fight("Empty the clip!") once he has killed the Kaiju it's still not enough("Lets check for a pulse") he grins with joy at Mako joining in the act of desecration at an obviously defeated foe(compare Leatherbacks corpse, in full view, with Knifeheads, below water). At his very core he is now corrupt in the sense that, the ends justify the means, it's why his suit is now black, he has his Jaeger back and he's a lot more dangerous because of it. The importance of Mako wearing black armour here is different, again she is a reflection of the Kaiju, the black is covering the blue underneath it's just growing thicker. Also a note on Mako, her reflection in the Kaiju, a possible link between the subversive(and not) images of yonic and phallic symbolism mentioned and in relation to Kaiju blue. It's worth pointing out that Mako leaps into the misguided Strong Female Character role, this isn't to say Mako is uninteresting or her importance is diminished, it's quite the opposite. How she is acknowledged as fit to pilot a Jaeger by Pentecost is through showing her ability to communicate like a man. In relation to her first drifting experience and the power dynamics at play in the movie, as someone pointed out long ago. Raleigh shows the ability to regain control over his memory and is seen, still armoured trying, to talk down Mako from chasing the rabbit, we see the source of Makos trauma and that underneath the armoured skin her raw exposed emotional response is Kaiju blue. I'm going to make a couple of assertions based on your post, could be wrong but I'm guessing you didn't read the effort post I made in response to yours about colour, exploring the significance of blue. Why I keep referring to it as Kaiju blue is an important distinction, the opening of the movie tells us explicitly that it's toxic. The visual symbolism is not dissimilar in warning us about it but the message is more complex, the blue is toxic because too much of it exposed can lead to pain as it's very tender(internal organs, blood, sensory receptors, the coat) and that stimulus in reaction to a perceived threat the blue can form part of a defense mechanism(Blue cannon, Acidic spit, EMP). Blue again is of significant importance in relation to the drifting sequences and memory, with all the above implications, you acknowledge they can be see packed together and writing around I can remember mouths moving too. I apply the sound through the perception of colour, even if you can't hear the actual sound it reinforces the point of where and when they are empowered. It applies directly to the scenes of(as I see them living) exposed organs and nerve endings being worked on, I reflect on it with further visual information gained later in the movie where I'm observing the Kaiju behavior. Also you keep referencing things that didn't happen in the movie but in other source material when trying to talk directly about the movie or points directly related to it. There's a place for other source material and I'm not totally dismissing it's significance but to give a sense of scale in the difference of importance I place on it when responding to direct points about the movie. It's like a human being standing next to, however big, the largest Kaiju. In no small part due to the sheer difference in scale and number of contributors to the movie in relation to comics, novels etc. Also I'll quote this again "Monsters are tragic beings; they are born too tall, too strong, too heavy, they are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy". Reflect on it in relation to a Kaiju moving around freely when seen from our perspective. You misconstrue the point about immigration I was making, It's directly related to trying to maintaining a structure of power/governance in relation to Other and the indigenous population and how that can be viewed both ways(segregation). How in my experience and related to what's on screen, is never looked upon as peaceful but categorized as an Other to fear and protect yourself against. Also pointing out a perceived lack of nuance as naïveté in light of everything I've talked about and how it all relates, at this time, shows me a fundamentally different interpretation of views expressed. That could be my fault, I'm too close to the 'canvas' at this point to tell and will push back from the discussion to reflect on it. Well holy poo poo that grew a lot bigger than expected, sorry for  it's no doubt loaded with errors I've missed, also Good movie.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 06:59
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:The movie hasn't even made its budget back yet. It has when you look at the worldwide figures. It's at about $75 million in the US but about $110 million worldwide, totaling $185 million out of a budget of $180 million. And it hasn't opened in Japan or China yet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 07:01
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:It has when you look at the worldwide figures. It's at about $75 million in the US but about $110 million worldwide, totaling $185 million out of a budget of $180 million. And it hasn't opened in Japan or China yet. Being generous probably only 140 of that has gone to the studio. When considering making a sequel you have to take into account opportunity cost as well. Sure this movie makes 300 Million, with maybe 200 Million or more going to the studio itself. Why spend 200 Million to make 300 Million when you could spend 170 million on I dunno, another Spiderman remake and make 800 million? Clearly they aren't going the Pokemon/Disney/Transformers/Star Wars route where the movie or show supports the merchandise. Legendary has completely dropped the ball on merchandising opportunities for this movie. You could also hope that Blue Ray or DVD sales props up the tail end of the movie's life cycle, but that market ain't what it used to be. Del Toro even said there probably wouldn't be an extended edition. The Walking Dad fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jul 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 07:27
|
|
|
brawleh posted:Also pointing out a perceived lack of nuance as naïveté in light of everything I've talked about and how it all relates, at this time, shows me a fundamentally different interpretation of views expressed. That could be my fault, I'm too close to the 'canvas' at this point to tell and will push back from the discussion to reflect on it. Listen, I thought about it a bit more in the meantime. It's like, the crux is that we're disagreeing over whether such creatures could be created as could be called 'evil': hyperaggressive, without self-preservation instincts, even simply such as are necessary for survival until breeding. You seem to be saying that they can't. I, perhaps because I am a molecular biologist, am definitely more cynical. We already know how to induce desensitisation and deempathisation through abuse and drugs in humans (think child soldiers, kamikaze fighters, suicide bombers) - and we, as a species, are complicated, conscious beings; it's simpler in animals. Now, abuse and drugs are primitive methods, and they act on already existing organisms. But we're already learning how to exert much finer control - how to engineer creatures. We know at least some of the genetic causes of aggression, such as MAO-A deficiency. We are already capable of creating creatures that disregard their self-preservation instincts. We are learning about the brain, and are learning which parts are responsible for what - and once we know exactly how it works, we'll be able to create creatures with the parts we don't want switched off. The argument of whether a functionally 'evil' creature can exist will soon be moot. Yes, 'natural' creatures exist as perpetual unstable equilibria between aggression and collaboration. Engineered beings, though, need not: they need only to have such functions as their creators deem desirable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 07:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 22:05 |
|
|
brawleh posted:
This really doesn't hold up when, again, Kaiju actively and explicitly seek out and initiate agressive action towards human settlements. There is nothing in the text to imply that they're space whales, frolicking through the sea and accidentally wrecking ports for they know not their own strength. They are genetically engineered and specifically constructed for the purpose of exterminating all life on Earth. You have only the flimsiest of evidence that they were ever anything other than bioweapons built from the ground up by the invaders, or that they were ever anything close to sapient life. Just because someone made a tank that runs on blood instead of gasoline doesn't mean it's not a tank.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2013 07:52
|
|
