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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Well let's be fair. While Crystal Skull wasn't as good as the original Indy movies, it was still leagues better than any of the Star Wars prequels. That CGI gopher was absolutely shameful though. 
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Jul 29, 2013 05:55
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Well let's be fair. While Crystal Skull wasn't as good as the original Indy movies, it was still leagues better than any of the Star Wars prequels. Episode III is goddamn high cinema compared to Crystal Skull.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:01
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Episode III is goddamn high cinema compared to Crystal Skull. I'm seriously glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:04
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Episode III is goddamn high cinema compared to Crystal Skull. They're both goofy as hell in lots of different ways, but I think Crystal Skull was the one that was entertaining because of that while Episode III just fell flat on its rear end. Star Wars just isn't supposed to be that serious, which is probably why Episode III can't pull it off and instead came across as very boring to me.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:13
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^^^ Yeah, I know, right, I sure do love that not-serious scene where the Emperor electrocutes Luke in front of his family. Such light fun entertainment. CPFortest posted:I'm seriously glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I like Episode III. Sure it has pacing issues, but it's a drat sight better than anything else Lucas has done since the 80's.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:22
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I'm re-watching Empire Strikes Back right now and goddamn, does it ever hold up.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:23
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I enjoy all the prequels unironically, but I think Ep. III is easily the most successful. The melodrama is ramped up enough that the cheesy dialogue and acting is entirely appropriate, and the look of it is great- all those reds and purples.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:25
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How are u posted:I'm re-watching Empire Strikes Back right now and goddamn, does it ever hold up. Yeah, Empire is easily the best of all 6 of the movies, with ANH in a very close second.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:26
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Maxwell Lord posted:I enjoy all the prequels unironically, but I think Ep. III is easily the most successful. The melodrama is ramped up enough that the cheesy dialogue and acting is entirely appropriate, and the look of it is great- all those reds and purples. Episode III left the worst taste in my mouth. Like, exactly one scene and one line delivery worked for me and the rest was a total miss. Nothing stuck, nothing was enjoyable, nothing had any weight to it or fun to it. It's my least favourite of the prequels. But my opinion is literally worthless because Attack of the Clones is my favourite of the prequel trilogy.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:34
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Picking the best out of the prequels and kotc is like asking what animals scat has the best fragrence
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Jul 29, 2013 06:54
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LesterGroans posted:Episode III left the worst taste in my mouth. Like, exactly one scene and one line delivery worked for me and the rest was a total miss. Nothing stuck, nothing was enjoyable, nothing had any weight to it or fun to it. It's my least favourite of the prequels. Attack of the Clones is fantastic, but Revenge of the Sith is a mixed bag because Lucas does actually get sincere with it a bit, intermittently. It's the episode where he says "ok, seriously folks: the 'good guys' really aren't good. Everything is hosed, people are going to die, and you should stop cheering." It's the same hyperreal and fan-antagonizing Star Wars-branded nightmare as the previous films, but the tone is much more downbeat.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:57
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How are u posted:I'm re-watching Empire Strikes Back right now and goddamn, does it ever hold up. Jedi was on TV the other day. The first half hour is loving awful (I turned it off after that).
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Jul 29, 2013 11:30
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Did anybody post this in here yet? This sounds good, and I'm still optimistic, but the prequels have a lot more model work than people realize. The first two had a lot of location shooting too. Hopefully they can strike a much better balance this time, but the prequels really weren't all CGI like people think. And in case this wasn't totally clear, I'm not defending the look of the prequels. I hope there's less CGI and green screen. I'm just saying that this statement doesn't seem as significant to me as it does to some people.
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Jul 29, 2013 13:09
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sassassin posted:Jedi was on TV the other day. The first half hour is loving awful (I turned it off after that). Huh, no it's not. Jabba's palace is fantastic, especially in score and design, and the buildup of Luke finally getting some lightsaber action is great as well. That's the first half hour. Jedi has some of the best moments in any of the movies, period, it's just that parts seem lifeless - next to Empire especially (the jump from ANH to Jedi is negligable), and a lot seems like a copout since you can feel the contrivance of the retread in bits.
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Jul 29, 2013 13:44
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Darko posted:Out of modern composers, only around 3-4 have proven that they can do themes + orchestrations on the level of Williams' Star Wars stuff, and Giacchino isn't really one of them. For instance, if he scored Empire, there would be no Asteroid Theme, for one thing, it's decidedly more complex than anything he's scored (which is what tonally adds to why it sounds so great), and secondly, because he tends to do two themes and rely on them totally, so you'd just have a variation of the Han and Leia theme for that section since Han and Leia are in the Falcon during it. I'd argue that there aren't even 3-4. Williams is a direct link to the great classical composers, a link which is slowly fading out as film music becomes less thematic and more textural. Saying you'd (not the post I quoted, but the other guy) prefer someone else to compose for Star Wars is effectively saying 'Oh no, I don't want that Beethoven chap to write this piece of music - get that jobbing composer from down the road to do it.' This is no disrespect to Giacchino - I like his scores (except for the phantom bum note I hear in the ST'09 theme). Also agreed on Powell and Kung Fu Panda. I can't get enough of those scores.
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Jul 29, 2013 13:45
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sassassin posted:Jedi was on TV the other day. The first half hour is loving awful (I turned it off after that). The first half hour is fantastic, what are you talking about? It shows Luke finally coming into his own. When we left him he was a sad sack of a child, outmatched by Vader in every way. And partly as a result, he and his friends suffered a terrible loss. Now Luke is back, he's more serious, he's more skilled, he's...a Jedi. And having him display this on his home planet shows just how far he's come. The first half hour shows that while we know the Empire is scary, Luke is ready this time for what's about to come. Also, gold bikini. Darko posted:Jedi has some of the best moments in any of the movies, period, it's just that parts seem lifeless - next to Empire especially (the jump from ANH to Jedi is negligable), and a lot seems like a copout since you can feel the contrivance of the retread in bits. Agreed. I'd also say that Jedi is the most mixed bag of the original trilogy. You have the incredible opening first half hour, but you also have Ewoks defeating Stormtroopers. You have the Emperor shutting down Luke at every turn, but you also have yet another Death Star. You have Vader wordlessly portraying the conflict he has while Luke is being electrocuted, but then you have Ewok story time. You have an amazing space battle outside the Death Star (which is probably the best space battle in all 6 movies) but then you have the hand wave Leia-is-Luke's-sister moment. I still think it comes out on top, and does indeed have some of the highest points of the series, but other moments drag it down to being 2nd or 3rd best in the series.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:11
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Darko posted:Huh, no it's not. Jabba's palace is fantastic, especially in score and design, and the buildup of Luke finally getting some lightsaber action is great as well. That's the first half hour. I couldn't disagree more. The 'lightsaber action' is an awkward mess compared to the end fight in Empire, the effects work is shoddy, there's a loving musical dance sequence, the plan makes no sense and everyone comes out the other end looking like a bumbling fool. I was shocked how much worse it was than I remembered it.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:16
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thrawn527 posted:The first half hour is fantastic, what are you talking about? It shows Luke finally coming into his own. When we left him he was a sad sack of a child, outmatched by Vader in every way. And partly as a result, he and his friends suffered a terrible loss. Now Luke is back, he's more serious, he's more skilled, he's...a Jedi. And having him display this on his home planet shows just how far he's come. The first half hour shows that while we know the Empire is scary, Luke is ready this time for what's about to come. Luke starts Jedi either threatening to kill people if they don't do what he wants, or just doing so immediately. Then he falls through a trapdoor, flails at a big monster, gets captured again, and is of no help at all to his friends when poo poo starts to go down above the sarlac. While Luke swings his big rave stick like a lunatic, accomplishing nothing, Leia kills Jabba, and blind Han Solo kills Boba Fett and saves Lando from being eaten. He's more serious, more skilled, but he's definitely not a Jedi yet. That's not my criticism of the sequence, though.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:25
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sassassin posted:Luke starts Jedi either threatening to kill people if they don't do what he wants, or just doing so immediately. Then he falls through a trapdoor, flails at a big monster, gets captured again, and is of no help at all to his friends when poo poo starts to go down above the sarlac. The reason any of his friends are able to achieve anything is because throughout that sequence Luke takes out all of the guards on their flying ship, jumps to the next and single handedly takes out all the guards on that one, then jumps onto Jabba's barge and starts single-handedly tearing up poo poo there.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:31
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sassassin posted:Luke starts Jedi either threatening to kill people if they don't do what he wants, or just doing so immediately. Then he falls through a trapdoor, flails at a big monster, gets captured again, and is of no help at all to his friends when poo poo starts to go down above the sarlac. Interesting that you left all the things Luke actually does for some reason. He gets passed the guards using the Force, uses the Jedi mind trick on Bib Fortuna like Obi-Wan did in A New Hope, kills said big monsters with a small rock, and then on the sail barge when he "swings his big rave stick", he doesn't accomplish nothing, he kills a lot of guards, rescues Leia, and destroys the barge itself. But I guess if I leave all of that out, then I get your description and he does nothing. True, he's not a true Jedi yet. But the difference between where we left him and where he is now is massive.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:32
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The importance of Luke's actions was probably diminished in my mind because every shot he was in looked like total poo poo. His lightsaber looks less like a weapon and more like a prop. It's like the prequel sabers without any choreography. He gets past the guards by choking them like Vader. He's playing billy big bollocks just like when he went to fight Vader and it almost gets everyone killed. He would've been disarmed if his hand wasn't robotic. But then that's the lesson and I guess his journey starts when Yoda imparts a few last pieces of terrible advice and dies.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:47
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sassassin posted:Luke starts Jedi either threatening to kill people if they don't do what he wants, or just doing so immediately. Then he falls through a trapdoor, flails at a big monster, gets captured again, and is of no help at all to his friends when poo poo starts to go down above the sarlac. Luke is the person that kills nearly all of Jabba's guys and frees them all from capture. Without Luke, there was no way for them to escape.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:48
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sassassin posted:I couldn't disagree more. The 'lightsaber action' is an awkward mess compared to the end fight in Empire, the effects work is shoddy, there's a loving musical dance sequence, the plan makes no sense and everyone comes out the other end looking like a bumbling fool. The dance sequence technically doesn't exist in Jedi. You're describing "Special Jedi," which is a different story entirely. That one addition ruins the pacing and mood of the entire opening. I'd also argue that Yub Nub makes the Ewoks better in retrospect while the weird flute-y choir song in Special Jedi makes them seem more out of place.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:51
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Darko posted:The dance sequence technically doesn't exist in Jedi. You're describing "Special Jedi," which is a different story entirely. Even normal Jedi has a musical number, but it's shorter and fits into the world much better. And as much as I love Yub Nub, the new music at the end of Jedi is the one Special Edition change I will always defend.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:53
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Diabolik900 posted:
Same. Williams really nailed that.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:56
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Diabolik900 posted:Even normal Jedi has a musical number, but it's shorter and fits into the world much better. The original, Lapti Nek, is a discordant John Williams composition that just upped the weirdness factor of the entire sequence. Notice that it still contained a lot of ambient crowd noise, too, meaning it felt like a background song and not like it was taking over the entire scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV0LD-QAzg0 No idea what Jedi Rocks is, but I don't think I've ever seen a movie just grind to a halt for 3 minutes with nothing to add to it like that before.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:59
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aBagorn posted:Same. Williams really nailed that. The last part of Yub Nub segues into the end titles so much better with the note change of the choir. edit: And the new song doesn't fit the dancing either. It's fine on its own as a tune, but there are a couple of reasons that the original Yub Nub composition fits in slightly better. I think most of the hate is that it's a reminder of Ewoks, and makes the Empire going down center around them, as opposed to the actual composition. Darko fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 15:00
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The original Max Rebo sequence in Jedi is way better - a nice call back to the Cantina - except now the characters are at a center of the galaxy's underworld instead of just passing through a peripheral part of it.
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Jul 29, 2013 15:03
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Jedi definitely suffers from a slow start- there's too much setup, and while Jabba's Palace is neat and all it does go on a bit. All the other movies start with some kind of action hook.
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Jul 29, 2013 16:23
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The beginning of Jedi also has this weird muddled message regarding Luke. I can see how Lucas and the screenwriters thought it might be cool to play with Luke's moral footing for a bit, given what happened at the very end of the last movie. From the end of ESB, you've got Luke attempting to deal with his newfound heritage (and losing a hand). When you see him in Jedi, he's first giving away the droids. Then, when he actually shows up, he's literally a shadow coming in from the light, using Vader's force choke, some mind tricks, and threatening to kill Jabba if he doesn't go along. He's also wearing black and telling Han he's taken care of anything. I could see a very different portrayal/story where Luke's fallen into this middle area between the Light and Dark Sides, using both, and the Emperor attempts to pull him fully into the Dark. That would, at least, provide more tension to whether Luke could be corrupted. However, these nods aren't acted on and there's never a doubt really that Luke is still a good guy. The audience isn't given any indication that Luke could actually fall (at least until the very end when this story is picked up again).
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Jul 29, 2013 18:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Attack of the Clones is fantastic, but Revenge of the Sith is a mixed bag because Lucas does actually get sincere with it a bit, intermittently. I don't think it is said enough: Ian McDiarmid is fantastic in every scene in every movie he's in as Palpatine. Even when he's cheesy ("unLIMITED POWAAAAA!) it's awesome. He was the best thing about the prequels. I even enjoyed his story arc shrouded in misdirection and half-truths about killing his master and his conversation with Anakin on the Jedi nearly convinced me to turn to the darkside. edit also: sassassin posted:I couldn't disagree more. The 'lightsaber action' is an awkward mess compared to the end fight in Empire, the effects work is shoddy, there's a loving musical dance sequence, the plan makes no sense and everyone comes out the other end looking like a bumbling fool. The special edition loving RUINED the first hour of Jedi which is as good as Empire originally. It loses pace around Endor. But the special edition, especially at Jaba's Palace (which terrified me in the theater as a child) was amazing originally. kiimo fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 18:36
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Once I realized the Padme / Anakin relationship was supposed to be stupid, sappy, and melodramatic, the movie became a lot better. (Episode 3, the 6th Movie.) Like, they aren't actually in love and never were and are acting like they think they should be acting, but don't really feel. euphronius fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 18:47
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Diabolik900 posted:Even normal Jedi has a musical number, but it's shorter and fits into the world much better. Having grown up with Yub Nub I get sucked out of the movie every time I hear the new Williams score. I love and miss Yub Nub and the special editions will never give me the same childhood joy at the end due to removing it.
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Jul 29, 2013 19:40
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Throwdown posted:Having grown up with Yub Nub I get sucked out of the movie every time I hear the new Williams score. I love and miss Yub Nub and the special editions will never give me the same childhood joy at the end due to removing it. I was young enough when the SE's came out (12) that they've actually overwritten some memories of the originals. Yub Nub being one of them
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Jul 29, 2013 19:45
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I wish they would have just cleaned up the effects and left everything else out. Every additional scene was a war crime. Jabba in ANH sucks more than anything in the world, the second song in Jabba's palace is second and Han/Greedo is third. The only film to benefit was Empire and that's because it was the best film already, it just needed to be cleaned up. The additions in 4 and 6 should be shot into the sun. Why can't I find the original ending anywhere? Here's why we should have known the prequels were going to suck, the clues were there. Clue 1: Rick McCallum and his team of monkey Lucas-sycophants made Young Indiana Jones which was a total and complete clusterfuck. Clue 2: Then they worked on the Special Editions which everybody stood in line to watch in the theaters and Star Wars Mania was back with a vengeance so a new generation could stand in line in the theaters and re-experience it, but we all ignored the fact that the additions to ANH were comically bad. Like, rape your childhood bad. Clue 3: Every article I read about Ahmed Best cracking people up on set with his Jar Jar antics they mentioned how much the kids would love it, not that any adult actually did. I should have known. We all should have known.
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Jul 29, 2013 20:43
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kiimo posted:The special edition loving RUINED the first hour of Jedi which is as good as Empire originally. It loses pace around Endor. But the special edition, especially at Jaba's Palace (which terrified me in the theater as a child) was amazing originally. Everyone who hasn't seen it in a while should look it up on youtube, it's worse than you remember. It's a jarring tone, doesn't fit the context, looks terrible, and is incoherent even as a standalone scene. While the original was a look around Jabbas palace whild some performers pkay in the background, this version is a scene in which googly eyed monsters literally scream into the camera and then Jabba kills someone. It's Oogieloves levels of "Something abysmally terrible and stupid but kids will love it because _______" and, like the other bad parts of the special editions, is worse than the prequels because it actively makes a good movie bad.
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Jul 29, 2013 21:48
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kiimo posted:rape your childhood
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Jul 29, 2013 21:51
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kiimo posted:Like, rape your childhood bad. Whenever someone thinks this, a little bit of me dies.
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Jul 29, 2013 21:53
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Ha I threw that in there on purpose. I'm pretty sure reviews of the special editions were the first time I heard that phrase.
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Jul 29, 2013 22:14
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Tender Bender posted:Everyone who hasn't seen it in a while should look it up on youtube, it's worse than you remember. It's a jarring tone, doesn't fit the context, looks terrible, and is incoherent even as a standalone scene. While the original was a look around Jabbas palace whild some performers pkay in the background, this version is a scene in which googly eyed monsters literally scream into the camera and then Jabba kills someone. It's Oogieloves levels of "Something abysmally terrible and stupid but kids will love it because _______" and, like the other bad parts of the special editions, is worse than the prequels because it actively makes a good movie bad. Also, the original scene upped the creepy factor by having the singers being genuinely weird looking puppets. The special edition scene did things to make them "cuter" like enlarging the eyes, and changing the lead singer to the "cuter" one, destroying the weirdness tie-in to the cantina scene (where each alien also purposely looked weird/unsettling), and making a weird commercial feeling thing in its place. And don't get me started on the difference between the Sarlacc beak as compared to the fear of the unknown of not imagining what was under/in/made up the Sarlacc pit.
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Jul 29, 2013 22:20
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