|
Raineko posted:Straight up dualshock 3 controller right out of a ps3 slim box. Im using motion joy to set it up as a driver so i can use it with other games. If the game accepts XBox360 controllers (aka XInput) then you should be able to. You just need to get a wrapper driver since dualshock doesn't work on windows by default: http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-XInput-Wrapper-for-DS3-and-Play-com-USB-Dual-DS2-Controller
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 09:07 |
|
|
Also worth noting on the topic of one-frames, given the degree of systems dickery they're hinting at for USF4 it'd be surprising if they didn't add a small buffer for normals.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:23
|
|
|
Mio Bison posted:Also worth noting on the topic of one-frames, given the degree of systems dickery they're hinting at for USF4 it'd be surprising if they didn't add a small buffer for normals. Don't get our hopes up  seriously, one single frame of input buffer for normals would make those links 2x easier.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:38
|
|
|
Super Rad posted:Don't get our hopes up You can already plink to give yourself an extra frame of leniency (i know not on jabs blah blah blah). It'd have to be more than a single frame buffer to make a big difference for new players.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:40
|
|
|
Mio Bison posted:Also worth noting on the topic of one-frames, given the degree of systems dickery they're hinting at for USF4 it'd be surprising if they didn't add a small buffer for normals. This would be a welcome change for me. I'm not an execution master but I'm able to jump to intermediate level combos fairly quickly in most games and the basic stuff in SF4 still gives me fits. One of the guys in my local scene is a Honda player that can consistently do the hands into hands combos, while I'm still struggling with Adon's c.LP, c.MP link.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:48
|
|
|
Jmcrofts posted:You can already plink to give yourself an extra frame of leniency (i know not on jabs blah blah blah). It'd have to be more than a single frame buffer to make a big difference for new players. Maybe they could add it precisely for jabs? Sounds kinda silly I guess, but it'd be interesting for all the chars with obscure links involving jabs. .. watch all the hondas start linking EX hands back to back 
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:51
|
|
|
Mio Bison posted:Also worth noting on the topic of one-frames, given the degree of systems dickery they're hinting at for USF4 it'd be surprising if they didn't add a small buffer for normals. Capcom isn't ever going to fix the glaring system problems in sf4, they are just gonna let it stand. Also, re: Yatagarasu, I'm going to say it again that if it only makes 68k they are going to spend money on maximillian as an announcer over ggpo netcode. What were they thinking?
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:57
|
|
|
apple posted:Maybe they could add it precisely for jabs? Sounds kinda silly I guess, but it'd be interesting for all the chars with obscure links involving jabs. Just let us special cancel chained jabs like in the sf4 beta  Just kidding that would be the worst.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 15:58
|
|
|
Jmcrofts posted:You can already plink to give yourself an extra frame of leniency (i know not on jabs blah blah blah). It'd have to be more than a single frame buffer to make a big difference for new players. Have you ever tried to plink with a controller? That's the input device new players are going to be using.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:04
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:Capcom isn't ever going to fix the glaring system problems in sf4, they are just gonna let it stand. I don't like how link heavy sf4 is either but its not a "glaring system problem," its a combo system that works fine for the game even if it is slightly obtuse and difficult for new players. SF4 more than probably any other fighter out right now gives you options to win without doing combos. The game, especially at high level, suffers far more from braindead unblockables/oki than slightly difficult combos. Also regarding yata announcer packs, all of the commentary packs together cost less than GGPO, the game already has online play (which I haven't found to be terrible but haven't played too many games), and GGPO was NOT part of the original indiegogo campaign and was only added as a stretch goal due to fan demand. If that fan demand doesn't translate to dollars then oh well, they tried.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:07
|
|
|
Super Rad posted:Have you ever tried to plink with a controller? That's the input device new players are going to be using. He wasn't implying they should plink, he was implying that any blazblue/p4a style input buffer would have to be more than a single frame for it to help new players, who more than likely don't plink, at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:22
|
|
|
Plinking is a solution that helps players that aren't the audience of the problem. It's a hidden, witchcraft like mechanic that helps people that are already digging into the game to get better, and they would likely learn hard combos without the assistance of plinking in the long run anyway (though it would be harder for them for sure!)
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:24
|
|
|
Hope they make May low tier again, nothing was more fun than killing people with her gimmicky mixups and stuff in #R because they didn't know poo poo about her. May vs Potemkin best matchup.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:24
|
|
|
Ixiggle posted:I don't like how link heavy sf4 is either but its not a "glaring system problem," its a combo system that works fine for the game even if it is slightly obtuse and difficult for new players. SF4 more than probably any other fighter out right now gives you options to win without doing combos. The game, especially at high level, suffers far more from braindead unblockables/oki than slightly difficult combos. I wanted to expound on this. There aren't many competitive games these days that require straight up rote muscle memorization in the way that link combos require. Where you have to sit down and just (specifically) mindlessly practice like a musical instrument. Most of my friends prefer to play competitive games where you never just practice for the sake of practicing- you either play or watch/discuss/read strategy. So, people look at SF4 and just see it as Capcom must have screwed up the programming or something. Most people want instant gratification, and honestly you are playing a game so I'm not gonna knock that. FGs that don't require strict timing for combos seem to always move towards long memorizations or in-the-moment adjustments to make combos tough. That is nice, but it is a different thing. There are some wierdos like me who enjoy link combos. I like combos short to keep the action going, I appreciate execution, and I don't want max punish combos to be simply a decision. To be more offensive, I'd say if you think "Oh link combos just don't seem to work for me, I am a special snowflake," that means you haven't practiced it enough. If you don't want to, that is fine. Is there anyone who has grinded a tough BnB out to get it 99% of the time, who doesn't find it rewarding? Like, "well that was a waste of time just to play this game"? To me, that seems crazy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:29
|
|
|
brian posted:He wasn't implying they should plink, he was implying that any blazblue/p4a style input buffer would have to be more than a single frame for it to help new players, who more than likely don't plink, at all. Right, all I was saying originally though is that even a single frame of buffer doubles the real-life window of execution for the narrowest links. You can even throw plinking on top of that for extra consistency. Naturally, even a 1 frame buffer is rather anemic, but compare it to 0 frames and it seems like a god drat miracle.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:36
|
|
|
I feel like I can see both sides. I can understand it being rewarding, but I also can understand the frustration of an arbitrary execution floor. In other games/genres, frames are used for randomization. In games that aren't SF4, a 1-frame link is functionally equivalent to rolling dice. So when you're starting out, the times you drop a combo don't feel like you need practice. They feel like you rolled a 1 and got punished for doing so. If that sort of execution barrier were rare (UMvC3 TAC combos, Parasoul Napalm links, kara demon), it's acceptable, but when your BnB feels random, there's a tangible gap between you and Fun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:37
|
|
|
Ixiggle posted:I don't like how link heavy sf4 is either but its not a "glaring system problem," its a combo system that works fine for the game even if it is slightly obtuse and difficult for new players. SF4 more than probably any other fighter out right now gives you options to win without doing combos. The game, especially at high level, suffers far more from braindead unblockables/oki than slightly difficult combos. I just mean in general Capcom hasn't changed system mechanics since Vanilla(Correct me if I'm wrong). I was more responding to the idea that Capcom is going to change mechanics at all rather than 1f links in particular. I think they will attempt to fix unblockables but I think the braindead setups will remain, there are too many characters that depend on them. I still wish you couldn't FADC dps on block but I guess that only exacerbates the vortex problem. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Aug 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 16:57
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:I feel like I can see both sides. I can understand it being rewarding, but I also can understand the frustration of an arbitrary execution floor. This is basically my view as well. I don't mind not being able to do TAC infinites because the risk/reward is at a proper ratio and 99% of the time you'd be better served doing a regular combo. I should be facing an agonizing feeling of "oh god don't drop this now" when going for one. I should not have that same feeling when doing a routine hit confirm.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 17:00
|
|
|
Ixiggle posted:SF4 more than probably any other fighter out right now gives you options to win without doing combos. Play ST.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
I would feel better about links if they consistently got harder relative to attack power. Like, I don't think having to link lights should be a thing at all. Light to medium should be maybe 3-4 frames, medium to heavy 1-2 frames, light to heavy either 1 frame or not possible. And remove plinking. Not saying that's a practical solution to a well-established game with lots of characters, just how I would prefer. Also I hope that's not how it already works, haha. I only played SFIV a little when it first came out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
interrodactyl posted:Play ST. I should have clarified modern fighters in there but this is also true everyone play st.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
I wish I could mash Hands/Lightning Legs in ST but it just ends up making my hands hurt so much that I can't play so I settle for O. Ryu  .Speaking of dumb esoteric mechanics ST is chock-full of them, but they're all minor enough and the game is good enough that they don't really matter. Except fireball slowdown, gently caress fireball slowdown.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 18:22
|
|
|
If you can't reversal out of ticks in ST you're just gonna lose in the most unfun way over and over and it's pretty hard to do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 18:24
|
|
|
Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:If you can't reversal out of ticks in ST you're just gonna lose in the most unfun way over and over and it's pretty hard to do. Especially if you play someone like dictator whose throw gets outranged by some characters and has no invincible reversal move apart from his super. Nothing more rage inducing than playing a good OS Hawk.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:If you can't reversal out of ticks in ST you're just gonna lose in the most unfun way over and over and it's pretty hard to do. Yeah train with people who don't do this over and over if you can't reversal. (Learn to reversal while doing this.) It isn't that hard to do if you piano, though doing it at the right time after, say, O. Hawk jab or Chun c.lk is pretty tough. EDIT: To the above, does dic have moves that make him aerial on the first frame, or is it just established that he doesn't have an answer without super?
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 18:33
|
|
|
brian posted:any blazblue/p4a style input buffer add autocombo to USF4
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Redmark posted:I wish I could mash Hands/Lightning Legs in ST but it just ends up making my hands hurt so much that I can't play so I settle for O. Ryu What method are you using for mash moves? Most people try to go wild on the button but what you should be doing is using two fingers on one button to get the five taps. I use index and middle and rapid tap alternating the two fingers and I always get the moves when I want. Practice using mp with honda, first tap will get you s.mp then you should be quick enough that it cancels into mp hands.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 18:59
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:Yeah train with people who don't do this over and over if you can't reversal. (Learn to reversal while doing this.) It isn't that hard to do if you piano, though doing it at the right time after, say, O. Hawk jab or Chun c.lk is pretty tough. What top players sometimes do is purposefully get hit out of reversal Devil's Reverse a few times in a row (you can't get comboed because it's an air recovery) to skip the tick altogether and sneakily get meter that way for a reversal super. Here's an example; as you can see it takes some execution, to say the least. As for tick throws in practice they aren't really feasible to loop unless you're in the corner, and even then you'll reversal-throw them into the corner eventually and that's really good. Unless the tick is a 360, in which case ahahaha you're hosed. quote:What method are you using for mash moves? Most people try to go wild on the button but what you should be doing is using two fingers on one button to get the five taps. I use index and middle and rapid tap alternating the two fingers and I always get the moves when I want. Practice using mp with honda, first tap will get you s.mp then you should be quick enough that it cancels into mp hands.  This is the life of a poverty monster. Redmark fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Aug 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 19:01
|
|
|
Redmark posted:As for tick throws in practice they aren't really feasible to loop unless you're in the corner, and even then you'll reversal-throw them into the corner eventually and that's really good. Unless the tick is a 360, in which case ahahaha you're hosed. Chun c.lk -> sweep or throw seems to work too often on me whether I'm in the corner or not. As far as I can tell my options are to reversal throw the normal(hard), block, or reversal. Reversal beats throw but sweep beats reversal. Chun's throw range seems huge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 19:18
|
|
|
Chuns one of several goofy characters who has an mp throw with really crazy range.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 19:22
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:Chun c.lk -> sweep or throw seems to work too often on me whether I'm in the corner or not. As far as I can tell my options are to reversal throw the normal(hard), block, or reversal. Reversal beats throw but sweep beats reversal. Chun's throw range seems huge. The thing is, the only time the tick thrower actually has an advantage over you is when he's ticking with a chain-cancellable normal (Dictator's s.lk for instance is what makes him such a good tick thrower), since then he can mix up the timing. With something like Chun's c.lk, he either goes for a throw afterward or sweeps, and if he goes for the throw both players have an equal chance of getting it since it's the exact same timing. It basically works out to being a normal 50-50, but with how damaging things can be getting swept by Chun or softening a throw isn't the end of the world. Her animation makes it hard for her to do anything after a softened throw (I swear sometimes it's punishable when she throws you into the corner, it's weird). Other characters can get more damage out of their tick fakeouts (like Ryu can walk back a bit -> c.mk red fireball, or Ken/Boxer's everything). It doesn't help that Chun's throw is bugged to do more damage than it should, I guess. I don't think her throw range is especially large, though it's probably above average. If your throw is significantly out-ranged I think just eating the soften is the best option, you will probably be able to press buttons afterward unless they have a good animation like Dictator. quote:Chuns one of several goofy characters who has an mp throw with really crazy range. Redmark fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Aug 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 19:28
|
|
|
Redmark posted:Isn't it only Boxer? I think Chun's mp throw just does more damage than hp throw. I actually got curious and checked after I posted that, and yea I was wrong. I knew there was a reason chun used MP throw over HP throw, and I always assumed that contributed but I guess its just that mp is a much safer button.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 19:34
|
|
|
Chun's MP throw does a lot more damage than HP throw as well, but yeah, it's mostly about the great frame advantage she gets off st.MP and her fast walk speed. And the fact that she can follow a jab fireball, and the threat of stored super if she has meter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 20:36
|
|
|
Did not know that ST had different throw strengths. Weird.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 20:46
|
|
|
Yo, real talk, tight link timing requirements are also a method of weakening offense by making it more likely to just randomly have holes in it. It's just all around bad loving game design from every angle.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 20:54
|
|
|
NecroMonster posted:Yo, real talk, tight link timing requirements are also a method of weakening offense by making it more likely to just randomly have holes in it. It's just all around bad loving game design from every angle. This is more a complaint about easy reversal timing and not "tight link requirements." SF4 still has chainable lights for most characters and that's what you use if you want a true blockstring. Also out of all the things SF4 is, offense isn't weak at all and it has nothing to do with dumb vortex/unblockable poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 21:05
|
|
|
You mean it's a way of strengthening those gdlike japanese ume shoryus.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 21:05
|
|
|
SF4 has weird character specific stuff too around throw range and damage right? But yeah, Chun's MP throw does 38 points of damage - it's the highest damage normal ground throw in the game. In comparison, her HP throw does 32 damage, which is the "standard" normal throw damage that most characters have. For reference, Gief jab SPD does 36 points of damage. There's so much funky stuff in ST, it's a treasure trove of specific little details. In some games I think it'd be annoying but in ST it feels fun, maybe because gameplay is still so fundamental despite all those weird details, maybe because game speed is fast. Some of my favorite random ST facts- Ken and Dhalsim cannot reversal super. If you get the input, they just repeat the last special move they did. This gets funky if it was air hurricane kick. Most people know Chun can store her super, but did you know Honda can too? Guile's crouch strong hits low on Deejay and only Deejay. T. Hawk's jump jab whiffs on crouching Bison, Cammy, and Blanka - he lands before the hitbox touches their hurtbox. Competitive ST is played on Turbo speed, which causes frame skipping. This means many frame specific things in ST will only work part of the time, because that frame is sometime skipped. The first attack in a combo causes 1 extra frame of hitstun than later attacks, so some moves combo only as the beginning of a combo, not later. There are some pretty big differences in wakeup timing across characters. Claw and Sagat wake up the fastest, Boxer the slowest; with a 12 frame gap between them. If you lose round 1, you get a small damage boost in round 2. And much, much more....
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
bebaloorpabopalo posted:This is more a complaint about easy reversal timing and not "tight link requirements." SF4 still has chainable lights for most characters and that's what you use if you want a true blockstring. Also out of all the things SF4 is, offense isn't weak at all and it has nothing to do with dumb vortex/unblockable poo poo. Honestly, I'm fairly certain the reason the game is so very very link centric is so people can keep using the nice big reversal buffer to just mash poo poo during attack and block strings. Yes this does add a whole layer of baiting those easy reversals to higher level play, but I really do think one of the reasons it's there is to make offense weaker. And weaker offense is poo poo guilty gear forever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 21:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 09:07 |
|
|
ZerodotJander posted:Most people know Chun can store her super, but did you know Honda can too? Stored specials own. Mostly because stored Ochio is so loving cheap and so much fun to do. Do a half circle back, hold down/back, and have access to buttslam, headbutt, and negative edge 0f Ochio.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2013 22:24
|
|