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ShadeIncarnate posted:Not to derail the thrilling discussion on fascism, but here are some cool youtube clips of Guillermo del Toro promoting Pacific Rim over in Japan. I don't understand most of what's going on here beyond the subtitles but this is the most d'aww-est thing I've ever seen. They're fulfilling all the nerdiest dreams that grown rear end man has ever had and filming him lose his mind over it.
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Aug 11, 2013 06:36
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Yeah, this SMG wankfest has gone on way too long.
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Aug 11, 2013 06:50
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ShadeIncarnate posted:Not to derail the thrilling discussion on fascism, but here are some cool youtube clips of Guillermo del Toro promoting Pacific Rim over in Japan. Thank you for reminding me why I read this thread.
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Aug 11, 2013 06:50
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Ramen Pride! posted:Yeah, this SMG wankfest has gone on way too long. I generally like reading SMG's readings but goddamn do they end up dominating threads.
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Aug 11, 2013 06:52
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Improbable Lobster posted:I generally like reading SMG's readings but goddamn do they end up dominating threads. So let's get things back on track.
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Aug 11, 2013 07:05
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Cherno Alpha was inspired by the Zaku II? No wonder it's so popular. The Zaku II had a great design.
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Aug 11, 2013 07:10
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Improbable Lobster posted:Let's see if I did this right Now just put "fascism" on Gipsy Danger and "funhaving" on the Kaiju and you've got this thread. ShadeIncarnate posted:Not to derail the thrilling discussion on fascism, but here are some cool youtube clips of Guillermo del Toro promoting Pacific Rim over in Japan.  I think that the sequel will still happen despite yet more doom and gloom from movie people. It's already made back its production costs and then some in sales, and that's before DVDs, toys, etc. I think that as an investment for a new property, Pacific Rim has fared pretty well!
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Aug 11, 2013 07:31
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ShadeIncarnate posted:Not to derail the thrilling discussion on fascism, but here are some cool youtube clips of Guillermo del Toro promoting Pacific Rim over in Japan. Del toro confirmed for zeon apologist
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Aug 11, 2013 07:45
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ShadeIncarnate posted:Not to derail the thrilling discussion on fascism, but here are some cool youtube clips of Guillermo del Toro promoting Pacific Rim over in Japan. These videos were the cutest thing ever oh my god 
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Aug 11, 2013 07:55
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Improbable Lobster posted:Let's see if I did this right So that's where all the figures went? Thanks NECA! On a happier note, Ebay has a decent quantity of Series 1 figures from the movie, but really only available as a bundle right now. The three of them (Gipsy, Knifehead, and Crimson Typhoon) are bundled at a reasonable price direct from the manufacturer. $62.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacific-Rim...=item3cd46cd903
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Aug 11, 2013 07:55
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Dred Cosmonaut posted:Del toro confirmed for zeon apologist Zeon sought freedom from oppression for the spacenoids. Pacific Rim was a metaphor for the weaker, less-capable Zeon innovating and making sacrifices to win their independence from the tyrannical Earth Federation. Heroes such as Cherno Alpha/Zaku II, with their humanoid forms, fought strange creatures such as the Kaiju/Ball and at first achieved great victory. Unforunately the Kaiju/Earth Federation countered their innovations with weapons like Otachi/Gundam and brought them to their knees. Del Toro corrected history by allowing the determination of the just Zeon/Human people to overcome the savage dominance of the Kaiju/Earth Federation.
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Aug 11, 2013 07:58
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PerrineClostermann posted:Zeon sought freedom from oppression for the spacenoids. Pacific Rim was a metaphor for the weaker, less-capable Zeon innovating and making sacrifices to win their independence from the tyrannical Earth Federation. Heroes such as Cherno Alpha/Zaku II, with their humanoid forms, fought strange creatures such as the Kaiju/Ball and at first achieved great victory. Unforunately the Kaiju/Earth Federation countered their innovations with weapons like Otachi/Gundam and brought them to their knees. Del Toro corrected history by allowing the determination of the just Zeon/Human people to overcome the savage dominance of the Kaiju/Earth Federation. So who is Zechs Marquise?
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Aug 11, 2013 08:14
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But the Zeon were total Nazis and than means the Jagers are-aw poo poo we're back to this again.
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Aug 11, 2013 08:19
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7thBatallion posted:So who is Zechs Marquise? In this metaphor he would be Ryan Reynolds from RIPD.
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Aug 11, 2013 09:50
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No Coyote or Cherno, no sale. 
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Aug 11, 2013 10:38
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ImpAtom posted:In this metaphor he would be Ryan Reynolds from RIPD. Oh, wow. It all makes sense.
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Aug 11, 2013 11:26
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T.G. Xarbala posted:No Coyote or Cherno, no sale. Cherno is slated for series 3, no word on Coyote yet.
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Aug 11, 2013 13:25
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Was this song featured here yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EEtGLLDhNY (it's fascist of course)
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Aug 11, 2013 13:47
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Pyromancer posted:Was this song featured here yet? It hasn't been featured here. Thanks for finding it!
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Aug 11, 2013 15:41
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Improbable Lobster posted:I generally like reading SMG's readings but goddamn do they end up dominating threads. Of course; I am on the side of the kaiju, and we stand for the eternal Idea of communism, where the PPDC resistance endorse only an indistinct notion of organicist solidarity. Many kaiju sisters may be killed, but the Idea is ineradicable.
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Aug 11, 2013 17:39
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I actually do wonder if Del Toro keeps up to track with more recent entries in the franchises he loved as a kid, and the mecha genre in general, or if there are several decades worth of mecha anime that he so needs to get in on. Because hey, given the similarities to the Getter Robo Go manga, I am totally down with the man being inspired by the Getter Robo Armageddon series in future.
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Aug 11, 2013 18:06
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PerrineClostermann posted:Del Toro's a big geek; he's having the time of his life over there. I think he recently went and saw the RX-78 Gundam they have. I like that they talked about the influences a bit, like Cherno Alpha being based off the Zaku (or the various monoeye Zeon mobile suits, like the Zock) and Coyote Tango based off the Guncannon (although it also has elements of Dougram in there as well). I was hoping we'd get confirmation from Del Toro about Gipsy Danger's Mazinger influences: seriously, when I saw that flared collar and the fact the head can separate from the body, I was expecting to see it fly around like Hover/Jet Plider at some point in the film. \/\/\/ No loving poo poo. Totally expecting that. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Aug 11, 2013 |
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Aug 11, 2013 20:37
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I was pretty disappointed the emergency escape thing at the end wasn't just the head literally rocketing off the body.
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Aug 11, 2013 21:00
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How did the novel handle the cafeteria scene after Raleigh beat up Chuck? I would have figured someone in there thought Chuck was a douche and thought Raleigh was cool and offered him a seat or something.
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Aug 11, 2013 21:41
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Young Freud posted:I like that they talked about the influences a bit, like Cherno Alpha being based off the Zaku (or the various monoeye Zeon mobile suits, like the Zock) and Coyote Tango based off the Guncannon (although it also has elements of Dougram in there as well). I was hoping we'd get confirmation from Del Toro about Gipsy Danger's Mazinger influences: seriously, when I saw that flared collar and the fact the head can separate from the body, I was expecting to see it fly around like Hover/Jet Plider at some point in the film. Add in the (elbow) rocket punch and chest based heat attack. Plus, Gipsy is a fairly round design, like the Mazinger's tend to be.
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Aug 11, 2013 21:55
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Hugo Martin talked a bit about the design of Pacific Rim at QuakeCon 2013 http://youtu.be/qVP1Bi-EMJU?t=9m58s (Linked to when he starts on Pacific Rim) Edit: Crimson Typhoon started as Echo Taipei, then Echo Beijing before finally being named by Del Toro. Edit2: Apparently Tacit Ronin will be in another graphic novel. I hope that we also see Romeo Blue and Horizon Brave. Also, on Travis Beacham has talked a bit about Pacific Rim 2 and the Jaegers on his tumblr. He even lists the mark and country of the Jaegers mentioned on the PPDC site. Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 11, 2013 23:20
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I can only imagine the political furor on either side if they'd gone with Beijing or Taipei for the Chinese jaegar.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:58
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Level Slide posted:How did the novel handle the cafeteria scene after Raleigh beat up Chuck? I would have figured someone in there thought Chuck was a douche and thought Raleigh was cool and offered him a seat or something. Haven't read the novel, but I'm pretty sure the awkwardness in that scene is caused less by the Raleigh/Chuck fight and more by the fact that Raleigh and Mako had just completely failed their test run and nearly blew up the Shatterdome. Mako is standing around hesitantly, too, and she wasn't directly involved in the fight.
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Aug 12, 2013 03:02
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SMG, you mentioned the Baby Kaiju as a virgin birth, and I'd like to discuss this a bit further. Because the baby isn't just a virgin birth. It also dies and is "resurrected" (inasmuch as Newt and Hannibal initially suppose it dead), saves humanity, and unites its nature with that of Man. And this forces me to re-evaluate your claim that this is not a Christian film. On a Christian reading - one which, I have to admit at the outset, is not at this moment nearly elaborated as well as your own - the Kaiju are not a human or human-equivalent other, but God and His (or, rather, Her) wrath. Their outward form (hideously gigantic undersea monsters) obviously references the divine caprice and primordial chaos as represented by Leviathan and Behemoth. (Leviathan, of course, is related to Tiamat; but whereas in a pagan reading of the film the battle between the Jaegers (Marduk) and Kaiju (Tiamat) recapitulates the male human warrior's victory over primordial female nature, under Jewish or Christian interpretation Leviathan is subordinate to God, and yet also a symbol of what (as said in Job) no human can properly defeat or fathom.) God's wrath is able to enter the world through sin, in this case, quite literal pollution - perhaps the point would have been much better made if humanity had made at least a cursory attempt to clean up the environment before realizing it was beyond their means. But, regardless, the superficial level on which the main conflict is prosecuted - punching vagina monsters in the face - is also explicitly a failure. In fact it is only through a series of Obviously Symbolic MacGuffins that humanity is saved: 1) the above-mentioned subplot with Newt, 2) Pentecost's (!!!!!!!!!!!) painful choice to sacrifice his only 3) The requirement of the alien DNA to open the rift - in order to stop the outpouring of God's wrath, something of God's own nature is needed in the sacrificial death. Again, I have to admit some failure in the courage of my convictions here - this is tentative and doesn't explain nearly as much of the data as your own theory, perhaps not even as much as del Toro's implicit public theory. But I can't shake the feeling that it points to something (though I know not fully what yet) actually present in the text.
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Aug 12, 2013 07:21
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Improbable Lobster posted:
I love how engaged he is with the fans. 3/4s of his posts now are either answering lore questions or posting awesome fanart. It's great.
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Aug 12, 2013 13:18
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Aug 12, 2013 13:51
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Oligopsony posted:SMG, you mentioned the Baby Kaiju as a virgin birth, and I'd like to discuss this a bit further. I'd considered that myself, but what stands out to me is that final scene of Ron Perlman crawling out of a wound, demanding his golden shoe. We all know what the shoe represents. Is it not an obscene punchline to the whole film - most specifically Mako's coping with her trauma? The way each character forms an arm, a leg, etc. - wanting to be 'whole again', wanting society to be 'whole again'? And of course Perlman's demand for wholeness is in direct opposition to the lesson of baby kaiju Jesus, who he must cut his way out of - leave behind as a moldering corpse. And what is Hannibal Chau if not an avatar of ruthless, amoral capitalism - disavowed by the hero's organization but sustaining its existence? The imagery of Perlman crawling from the corpse's wound is related to that of the Deacon in Prometheus, and the scene in The Thing where Blair performs an autopsy on the Thing and pulls out a fetal dog. The message is that he is a piece of poo poo with illusions of grandeur - but here he is looking like none other than Mako, with a blade in one hand to make up for his missing shoe. The final shot really undermines the whole picture - or, rather, reveals it for what it is.
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Aug 12, 2013 13:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I'd considered that myself, but what stands out to me is that final scene of Ron Perlman crawling out of a wound, demanding his golden shoe. So the scene is Hannibal descending into Hell, I think. He is rendered an incomplete human being (the shoe, natch) through his self-birth (freely chosen exit from) Kaiju Jesus. (Recall his rage at learning of Newt's communion - he'll immanetize the eschaton, bring God down here on our heads, how awful! And naturally he is eaten up not when the creature first stirs but after it surprises him with its resurrection.) And he is not damned by God's wrath but by Her saving grace and love - without new corpses he will lose the opportunities that are his reason for being. (Of course a real capitalist would just reinvest the capital in some other obscene venture, Capital (unlike Christ) being blind to the physical specificity of its bodily form, but this is surely one of those stupid world-level objections, like "why didn't they have Mako first drift in a simulator" or whatever.) If Hannibal as the shoe implies has a "missing half," who is it? The obvious answer is Newt, the Kierkegaardian Knight of Faith to his crass aestheticism. Newt is a sort of comedy (no tragi-) on irresistible grace; once his faith has found what it seeks no amount of fleeing can keep it from him. (Dr. Gottlieb is clearly not so much Newt's counterpart but the rational side of religious man. That they were named after the two profoundly religious inventors of the calculus should surely not be taken as coincidence! Gottlieb correctly deduces the triune nature of the singular Event, and so on, but needs a leap of faith of his own to join Newt.) Actually... and I admit this is speculative, perhaps even more so than the rest... but does not Hannibal-Gottlieb-Newton perfectly correspond to the Pauline sarx-psyche-pneuma division of the human person? The Jonah linkages seem blatant as well (Newt is the fugitive prophet, but Hannibal is swallowed up.) Of course all this Christology seems mostly confined to, or just most evident in, the researchers' comic subplot. Whether this is a case of "choosing the foolish to confound the wise" or the insertion of a satire of Christianity into a profoundly anti-Christian film I can't say. But does any audience member as morally sensitive as del Toro typically is root for anyone so much as poor Newt, who loves God (even, or especially, in Her monstrousness) more than man?
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Aug 12, 2013 15:16
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Oligopsony posted:SMG, you mentioned the Baby Kaiju as a virgin birth, and I'd like to discuss this a bit further. Christ was also born into the lower class (born in a manger) and put to death by the upper class because He was a threat to their way of life!
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Aug 12, 2013 15:42
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I am looking forward to more media that uses this universe. Maybe it would be a smart idea to have it crossover with Godzilla somehow, because at least it brings in something familiar to most people. Is it me, or does this film seem like the final film in a trilogy? In my overactive, caffeine addled imagination, I am imagining a trilogy that went like this: Movie 1- Pacific Rim: The Breach. Taking place from 2013-2019. Follows the comic book backstory, with K-day, the origins of Tendo Choi, Stacker Pentecost, et all. We get into the development of the Jaeger program, highlighted by the first victory from Brawler Yukon against Karloff. We also get to see Romeo Blue square off (as the first production-line Jaeger I believe) against a Kaiju, and the climax would be Stacker and Taz piloting Coyote Tango against Onibaba. The battle would be from Stacker, not Mako's perspective, so the events could be fudged since it would be different than Makos memory and make her drift with Raleigh still be significant in the third movie Movie 2- Pacific Rim: Feral Burst. Taking place from 2019-2024. The second film would start high, showing lots of Jaegers beating the stuffing out of Kaiju, and end low (seeing the Jaegers start losing, the development of the wall). We'd get to see much more of Cherno Alpha and Crimson Typhoon here Making their deaths in the third movie more significant. Maybe they team up with each other and get to Tag Team some Kaiju in the Sea of Japan or something. We'd see the development and deployment of Gypsy Danger, maybe even have the fight with knifehead be in this movie. A lot of Jaegers would get destroyed, but in this case 1.) They wouldn't be super hyped up and 2.) The battles would end much more narrowly for the Kaiju. Maybe the Kaiju kills the Jaeger but then keels over dead itself from its wounds, maybe as soon as the Jaeger is defeated they just nuke the gently caress out of everything in the area. Movie 3- Pacific Rim: Extinction Event. Pretty much the film we were given, but with the backstory stuff actual content in the previous movies, moving the Gypsy Danger vs Knifehead fight to the second movie. In lieu of this, once again, they could show more footage of other Jaegers, notably how in spite of its age, Cherno Alpha is still chugging along, punching Kaiju in the face as they are fighting a losing battle. I know it would never happen, but it would be cool to see. I guess I feel like they did so much worldbuilding in this film, but showed us so little of it, it makes me want more. It would be like if the LotR trilogy was crammed into one 90-minute film/novella.
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Aug 12, 2013 15:58
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Panfilo posted:I am looking forward to more media that uses this universe. Maybe it would be a smart idea to have it crossover with Godzilla somehow, because at least it brings in something familiar to most people. This is deliberate. Neither Beachem or Del Toro wanted to do an origin story - instead dropping the audience into the height of events for the overall story. Heck, Beachem even mentions at the start of the comic that he wanted to see if he could make it one of those films where you're dropped in without reference to expanded lore, but still get the gist of things - specifically referencing Han Solo's quip about making the Kessel Run, which gets no exposition, yet you get the idea that this is meant to be impressive in universe (enough that it was also supposed to be downright idiotic for Han to claim, but the power of retcon provided validation). Funny thing you mentioned LoTR too, since that's itself the final cap on the MASSIVE lore of Middle Earth, as detailed in the Silmarillion. Its just the stories manage to stand enough on their own that you don't really need to know about the bit where Sauron was a bishie.
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Aug 12, 2013 16:05
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Guy A. Person posted:Christ was also born into the lower class (born in a manger) and put to death by the upper class because He was a threat to their way of life! Another thing: Hannibal mentions that naturally the baby didn't have a chance, because the lungs weren't fully developed. IIRC crucifixion kills by respiratory failure, letting your body slowly crush your lungs. At a more metaphorical level there's the traditional symbolic link between respiration and pneuma. Hannibal scoffingly rejects the soul and affirms the finality of death; then the creature immediately confounds his theories.
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Aug 12, 2013 16:25
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Oligopsony posted:Christ I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough about theology to add anything useful to this discussion, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it and it is quality posting. Maybe this isn't the place to ask, but any chance you could recommend some good texts/authors to learn more about this kind of stuff? I'm much more familiar with political and feminist readings of films, but your post has made me feel like I definitely missed a lot about this movie (and certainly other films too) by not considering the religious aspect enough.
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Aug 12, 2013 16:35
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The score really was amazing, like, wow. It was as epic as the Jaeger's themselves.Astro Nut posted:This is deliberate. Neither Beachem or Del Toro wanted to do an origin story - instead dropping the audience into the height of events for the overall story.
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Aug 12, 2013 16:50
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Didn't Thor start out in medias res and get to the back story in the middle? Oh no, actually Loki's back story is only revealed later. Sorry.
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Aug 12, 2013 16:54
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