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I would be surprised if we get many more human-titans from within the main cast at this point. Thinking over Eren being Tiran-ified, his dad looks rather afraid and desperate in the flashback. Given the hints about what happens during one's first transformation, I suspect Dr. Jaeger may not have planned to survive Eren's first transformation upon being given the power. The scene also takes place in a wooded area, which makes me think the injection needed to occur somewhere where a Titan could appear unnoticed. Or he could have just been planning to leave for a long time, of course.
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Sep 11, 2013 08:45
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Hodgepodge posted:I would be surprised if we get many more human-titans from within the main cast at this point. We have some hints, via Ymir, that a human-titan is feral unless they eat another human-titan. Eren's dad allowed Eren-Titan to eat him so Eren would return to human form?
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Sep 11, 2013 12:15
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Factory Factory posted:We have some hints, via Ymir, that a human-titan is feral unless they eat another human-titan. Eren's dad allowed Eren-Titan to eat him so Eren would return to human form? No we don't.
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Sep 11, 2013 12:25
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Factory Factory posted:We have some hints, via Ymir, that a human-titan is feral unless they eat another human-titan. Eren's dad allowed Eren-Titan to eat him so Eren would return to human form? Since Eren seems to be the only human-titan that is the result of well intentioned mad science, anything we learn about the other titans only applies to him when explicitly shown to. Things that apply to Ymir seem to be iffy for the other human titans too, seeing as she isn't one of their group, has a titan form least like the others, and is seemingly old enough to be contemporary to the last titan attack on humanity.
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Sep 11, 2013 12:59
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Kild posted:No we don't. Chapter 47, pages 6-7, Bert and Ernie are talking about the time Ymir ate their buddy. Reiner says that because of that, she became human again. Then page 15 of that chapter, Ernie asks Ymir about her memory of becoming human again and she didn't know who she ate. And Bert says he and Ernie didn't remember, either. And Bert says Eren doesn't remember who he ate to become human again. I could have it wrong, I guess? But it seems pretty suggestive to me.
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Sep 11, 2013 13:00
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Factory Factory posted:We have some hints, via Ymir, that a human-titan is feral unless they eat another human-titan. Eren's dad allowed Eren-Titan to eat him so Eren would return to human form? We have some speculation about it, if that's what you mean. And its a pretty weak theory, IMHO, based on a single phrase that can interpreted in a number of ways, and already disproved by Eren himself, who inst "feral" anymore and never ate another human-titan.
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Sep 11, 2013 13:01
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Hodgepodge posted:I would be surprised if we get many more human-titans from within the main cast at this point. The wiki says the injection took place after the wall fell, but I only remember the flashback? Maybe Eren was actually one of the titans that got captured, and the injection just made him human again? That'd be a good twist.
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Sep 11, 2013 13:02
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Elias_Maluco posted:We have some speculation about it, if that's what you mean. The whole point of me bringing it up is that, if all I said is put together, Eren *doesn't* disprove it, and it's because he ate his dad (who may or may not have been a hidden human-titan, which suggests a way for him to know how to make Eren a human-titan).
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Sep 11, 2013 13:07
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There is literally no evidence whatsoever that Eren ate his dad though. We don't even know for certain if Grisha is dead to begin with.
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Sep 11, 2013 13:21
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It could also simply be that the injection facilitates regaining humanity during the first transformation, but doesn't make it controllable. You know how human Titans sort of melt when they run out of steam? So maybe if you're a human Titan, your initial uncontrollable rampage has a finite duration. Which might be more than enough time that the person giving the injection isn't going to walk away if he delivers it alone in the middle of a forest. Which also makes me wonder if Eren's dad didn't steal, rather than invent, the serum. It seems like a resource with a finite or restricted supply.
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Sep 11, 2013 13:26
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Factory Factory posted:Chapter 47, pages 6-7, Bert and Ernie are talking about the time Ymir ate their buddy. Reiner says that because of that, she became human again. Then page 15 of that chapter, Ernie asks Ymir about her memory of becoming human again and she didn't know who she ate. And Bert says he and Ernie didn't remember, either. And Bert says Eren doesn't remember who he ate to become human again. Looking at the original there is no suggestion of causation. On Bert's suggestion that Ymir ate their companion Reiner says yes: だが…だからこそユミルの立場は明白だ せっかく人間に戻れたんだ上手く立ち回って自分だけは生きたいとおもっただろう クリスタと出会うまでは Her eating what's-his-name leads to her standpoint being clear not her returning to being human. He continues that she wanted to live for her own but then met Crista. Bert's question to Ymir: 誰を食ったか覚えているか genericnick fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 13:43
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Factory Factory posted:Chapter 47, pages 6-7, Bert and Ernie are talking about the time Ymir ate their buddy. Reiner says that because of that, she became human again. Then page 15 of that chapter, Ernie asks Ymir about her memory of becoming human again and she didn't know who she ate. And Bert says he and Ernie didn't remember, either. And Bert says Eren doesn't remember who he ate to become human again. He didn't say because of that she became a human again. Just that because she became human again her 'position' (wanting to survive for christa and protect her while being an enemy of their village) was obvious because she stole their 'ability' (to get strong/survive the titanapocalypse?) and ate their friend. Also there's no evidence they were shifters at the time because they could have stopped Ymir then. Kild fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 13:44
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I'm a little curious about this eat-a-person, become-sapient thing. I mean, the original line is fuzzy enough that you have to kind of reach to get that interpretation, but also, Titans can't digest anything. Eating a human being is as meaningless to them as putting something in a bucket would be to you, assuming you chopped it into fine pieces first and filled the bucket with unimaginable horrifying gore. If nothing from the human being is even getting into their bloodstream (or whatever) in the first place, how would it have any impact on them?
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Sep 11, 2013 14:18
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I'll be mad if the "eat a person to become sapient" thing turns out to be true, just because it's so weird and arbitrary. What the hell does eating a person have to do with being able to think?
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Sep 11, 2013 14:28
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genericnick posted:Looking at the original there is no suggestion of causation. Welp, I'm a victim of translation troubles, then.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:06
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The titan in Connie's village welcomed him back, so at least some of the titans retain a semblance of their former selves. My guess is people turned into titans live in a dream-like haze of consciousness. And titan village figured out a way to turn people into titans that will eventually turn them back into humans since Ymir stole something and was in a stupor as a titan for apparently a long time before regaining consciousness. It seems Eren's dad perfected the method by speeding up the process of turning into a titan and regaining ones mind with the serum he gave Eren, which is why Reiner & crew switched their plan from destroying the walled civilization to capturing Eren after Eren first changed because speeding up the process of change is a big deal.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:22
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genericnick posted:Bert's question to Ymir: I disagree. If it was "誰 か を食ったか覚えてるか" it'd be a different story, but as worded, it reads to me as a question of who she ate, rather than whether she ate anyone.
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Sep 11, 2013 15:37
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Mary Annette posted:I disagree. If it was "誰 か を食ったか覚えてるか" it'd be a different story, but as worded, it reads to me as a question of who she ate, rather than whether she ate anyone. Yeah, your absolutely right, sorry. Confirmation bias at work. Still nothing here indicates that eating someone leads to regaining of humanity. genericnick fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 16:04
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genericnick posted:Still nothing here indicates that eating someone leads to regaining of humanity. Yes, so can we please stop having the same discussion every chapter until we are actually introduced some new evidence? Also, the idea that Eren could have ate his dad may have some weight. We don't know how he met up with his dad again, why he was in a forest, and how he got out, and why no one else knows anything about any of it. It'd be an interesting twist I suppose.
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Sep 11, 2013 16:54
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Shadow0 posted:Yes, so can we please stop having the same discussion every chapter until we are actually introduced some new evidence? Eren went into a mindless Titan state already though. Armin snapped him out of it- Eren didn't need to devour anyone. So I think that quashes that theory.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:54
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Eren went into a mindless Titan state already though. Armin snapped him out of it- Eren didn't need to devour anyone. So I think that quashes that theory. Why? He was in at least one mindless state prior to the boulder walk one, when he was rage titan. And who says entering a mindless state can only happen once?
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Sep 11, 2013 20:11
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Genocyber posted:Why? He was in at least one mindless state prior to the boulder walk one, when he was rage titan. And who says entering a mindless state can only happen once?
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Sep 11, 2013 20:21
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His first transformation directed his aggression at Titans, not humans. That suggests he had a degree if control at that point. He just hadn't learned how to transform with the proper priorities to maintain control, so didn't realize that there was a risk of submerging into a dream-state and attacking humans upon transformation. Whereas the dialogue of the other shifters seems to indicate that the first shift unavoidably results in a mindless state of potentially indefinite duration. My inclination is towards deviants being Titans with the potential to awake from the Titan state, or at least who are closer than other Titans to being shifters.
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Sep 11, 2013 20:56
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Hodgepodge posted:His first transformation directed his aggression at Titans, not humans. That suggests he had a degree if control at that point. He just hadn't learned how to transform with the proper priorities to maintain control, so didn't realize that there was a risk of submerging into a dream-state and attacking humans upon transformation. Jackard fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 21:14
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If it were a matter of being able to focus one's intent away from "eat humans," then other shifters would be able to do so on their first transformation as well. Or to out it differently, attacking Titans, and more to the point not attacking humans, is controlling the Titan state, just not as well as an experienced shifter can.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:33
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Hodgepodge posted:His first transformation directed his aggression at Titans, not humans. That suggests he had a degree if control at that point. He just hadn't learned how to transform with the proper priorities to maintain control, so didn't realize that there was a risk of submerging into a dream-state and attacking humans upon transformation. Yeah I'm kinda on the same fence. I think Deviants are titans who have a pilot in a dreamstate whereas the normal titans do not have a pilot. I forgot where it was said they cut open Titans necks before and found nobody inside.
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Sep 11, 2013 21:50
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Yeah I'm kinda on the same fence. I think Deviants are titans who have a pilot in a dreamstate whereas the normal titans do not have a pilot. I forgot where it was said they cut open Titans necks before and found nobody inside. They haven't found people in any of the deviants they've killed either, though. Jackard posted:He was in a mindless state until shocked out of it, and he's been able to control the titan ever since. Still doesn't rule out him going mindless again. He's transformed twice since then; not nearly enough times to make any sort of judgement call on that.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:03
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Yeah I'm kinda on the same fence. I think Deviants are titans who have a pilot in a dreamstate whereas the normal titans do not have a pilot. I forgot where it was said they cut open Titans necks before and found nobody inside. They've killed enough Deviants by now surely to have found - if not a complete pilot, at least human-bits inside the neck and/or the part they cut out.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:04
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Has that been explicitly said though? That they have not been finding any humans inside? Have they actually searched?
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Sep 11, 2013 22:23
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They said the titan bodies burn away or something along those lines, which would then leave a human body afterwards. Seeing how no one has ever brought up seeing a human body lying there after the kill I think it's safe to assume there was no one in them.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:29
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LuisX posted:Has that been explicitly said though? That they have not been finding any humans inside? Have they actually searched? It hasn't been explicitly said but it's occam's razor. What's more likely - that every Deviant killed has contained a human and fighters have just never seen any evidence of it when they've slashed through a human-sized chunk with their oversized box cutters... Or that Deviants don't have sleeping human pilots?
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Sep 11, 2013 22:34
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Reiterating what has been said a million times by now: Considering how we see the people inside Shifters covered in fleshy bits of tissue connecting them to the Titan, it's possible normal Titans just have that taken to the logical extreme, having completely absorbed the original person into a big snarl of muscle and nerve tissue. With that theory in mind, it could be that the "serum" or "titan power" or what have you A.) prevents the person inside from getting turned into a giant ball of nerve tissue in the first place (Eren) B.) allows normal, mindless titans to regrow the original human from said ball of nerve tissue (Ymir?) Along with other nifty potentials like skin hardening and Colossal-ism and what have you, possibly on a case by case basis. Given that Ymir summarized her 60-year Titan stint as essentially "I have no mouth yet I must scream", and how Connie's Mom Titan is at least cognizant that Connie is in fact Connie, it seems as though Titans all have at least some base humanity somewhere inside of them despite acting mostly on instinct. Aberrants might just have more of the intellect or shades of personality while still retaining the same basic people eating tendencies.
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Sep 11, 2013 22:43
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Eren almost slipped back into feral when he fought the Female Titan. His eyes go all crazy and he talks guttrally about eating her/all titans.
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Sep 11, 2013 23:00
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Drythe posted:They said the titan bodies burn away or something along those lines, which would then leave a human body afterwards. Seeing how no one has ever brought up seeing a human body lying there after the kill I think it's safe to assume there was no one in them. We don't know if shifters leave bodies though.
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Sep 11, 2013 23:05
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Those are good points, thanks. I wonder if the ape titan is the leader of the titan faction. Reiner and Bert were soldiers until they saw the ape titan, prompting them to switch back sides, or at least be in a hurried state to finish their duties (like if you were loving around on Facebook while at work and the boss walks by your cubicle). It is what explains (to me anyway) the sudden reveal RIGHT after the ape titan shows up and reveals its powers of command and intellect.
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Sep 11, 2013 23:31
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LuisX posted:Those are good points, thanks. Ymir confirmed that the Ape Titan is the reason they came to the Wall so I don't think he's their boss- but still it's something to consider.
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Sep 12, 2013 05:28
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I'm all caught up with the manga now. And. Just one question. I'm thinking Connie's village was turned into titans somehow? So there was never really a wall breach? But what's up with that ape titan? I don't think he's a shifter or he'd know about their gear. I think it's a he. Bit late to the party. Lay on me what you have so far. My opinions good or bad? Edit: My opinions on SNK. The new icon and tag are unrelated. Bisensual fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Sep 12, 2013 |
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Sep 12, 2013 05:58
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Bisensual posted:I'm all caught up with the manga now. And. Just one question. I might be misremembering, but I think the ape-titan came from beneath the castle or climbed over the wall, there was no breach. The titans that attacked the castle were able to move at night, and presumably had to have come from somewhere. Connie says something to the effect of, 'they're coming from the same direction as my village,' and when they reach his village, half formed titan and the villagers gone.
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Sep 12, 2013 06:22
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Actually, I'm not too sure where ape-titan came from, now that you mention. It was just. THERE. It was just there speaking English and confusing everyone. So, yeah. I think Connie's village were the titans that attacked from inside the walls. No idea how, but that's what I think happened. Which makes me wonder if they can even go back to being human...
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Sep 12, 2013 06:32
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From what I remember Bigfoot Titan just climbed the wall and started chucking pieces of wall at Connie and co. He didn't even go over, he just King Konged that poo poo and eventually left I think. I really can't piece together what the hell happened after all that, Mikasa showed up, Eren got his first Titan kill as a human etc. But what happened after all the squads figured out there was no wall breach? Did the Titans just disappear along with the ape Titan? I think part of this is because I kind of marathoned a large portion of the manga and because right after the Titannie reveal there was no real slow moment to digest anything. Like how Connie's village and the Titan he heard speak just got swept under the rug. I probably have to go back and give it a quick once over.
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