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GenHavoc
Jul 19, 2006

Vive L'Empreur!
Vive La Surcouf!

Spiritus Nox posted:

Go read about the sort of poo poo that happened to blacks who got lynched (hint: it often involved force feeding young black men their own severed and roasted testicles).

Every time I think I've heard all the awful poo poo that went on in that period, someone finds something new for me...

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Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

GenHavoc posted:

Every time I think I've heard all the awful poo poo that went on in that period, someone finds something new for me...

We had a brief look at the lynching movement in an American Cultures course I took recently. Not exactly the most lighthearted handful of classes I've attended.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

citybeatnik posted:

My West Texas, Church of Christ dirt farming grandparents said the exact same thing about my mother.

My mom made a couple of comments the first time I dated a non-Jewish girl, but they stopped when I pointed to my goyim dad and asked if my grandparents said the same thing when she married him (they did, and she gave them an earful about it at the time). It led to some useful discussion about reflex reactions and first- and second-thoughts, so I don't hold it against her.

Randomzx
Jul 26, 2007
I think the term "glorified Theme Park Ride" perfectly describes the amount of 'depth' in gameplay and story this game have. It is too easy to see setpieces are really nothing more than facades (which you could hardly explore at all) and easy it is to see how you are railroaded and all the time.

Randomzx fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Sep 16, 2013

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

This is really not the place for an in depth discussion of lynchings but if you really want to know more about the subject, I would recommend this book. As the name implies, it contains some pretty loving graphic pictures so fair warning. But it does a very good job at explaining why lynchings happened and their effects. It also contains a discussion of a very particular lynching - James Cameron's. Cameron was the only person known to have ever survived a lynching and his testimony is horrifying.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Randomzx posted:

I think the term "glorified Theme Park Ride" perfectly describes the amount of 'depth' in gameplay and story this game have. It is too easy to see setpieces are really nothing more than facades (which you could hardly explore at all) and easy it is to see how you are railroaded and all the time.

Bioshock has always been an examination of linearity and lack of player choice. It's one of the few game series that actually has things to say about playing games.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012
I'd ask how that applies to this game, as compared to the other two, but any answer to that is kind of inherently spoilery. PM it maybe?

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Yeah I wish we could talk about it, but it involves huge spoilers. Like everything else, the game's commentary on games will only be clear once all the pieces fall together.

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare

Wherein we go find where Elizabeth ran off too and explore yet another heavily populated civilian district in Columbia.

Sorry for the sort of rushed post, I'm dying to go to bed and sleep. The last week is really catching up on me and I'm about ready to clonk out. I'll update this post in the morning with some tidbits but nothing that will detract from the update itself in any way.

Sundowner fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 20, 2013

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

Sundowner posted:


Wherein we go find where Elizabeth ran off too and explore yet another heavily populated civilian district in Columbia.

Sorry for the sort of rushed post, I'm dying to go to bed and sleep. The last week is really catching up on me and I'm about ready to clonk out. I'll update this post in the morning with some tidbits but nothing that will detract from the update itself in any way.

Get some sleep, but the video only seems to go up to 360p for me.

VVVV - Excellent, thanks.

Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Sep 16, 2013

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare
It's processing. It'll be 720p in probably 10-15 minutes, if that.

Revenant Threshold
Jan 1, 2008
Now, in fact, in case anyone is waiting.

Edit: That really is a beautiful transition.

Revenant Threshold fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Sep 16, 2013

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
You could have warned us. Now I'll never get that horrible "readiness" song out of my head again.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

You may favor the shotgun but it's the carbines you ignored (twice! :argh:) that never left my side. Also, Booker sure does enjoy punching elevator buttons, even with his injured hand.

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Don't think I didn't hear you almost say Butcher Bay. Got Riddick on the mind, eh?

DarthBlingBling
Apr 19, 2004

These were also dark times for gamers as we were shunned by others for being geeky or nerdy and computer games were seen as Childs play things, during these dark ages the whispers began circulating about a 3D space combat game called Elite

- CMDR Bald Man In A Box
What difficulty are you playing on? I remember playing this on the PC and struggling with jerky controls, but you seems to be breezing through this. Did they release a patch or something, or am I just poo poo?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



So is there a history to goosestepping that got overshadowed by the nazis, or did they go just a little bit over the top with that animatronic Comstock Youth thing?

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
It has been popular since the Prussians came up with it in the 18th century. Lots of countries stole it for their own military drills, because the Prussians had a reputation as that place where all the awesome soldiers come from. It lost a lot of its popularity after the early 20th century, but there are still places that use it for ceremonial purposes.

DukeofCA
Aug 18, 2011

I am shocked and appalled.
The quest arrow is fantastic. I'm poo poo at finding hidden loot in games because I usually end up stumbling down the way you're supposed to go to progress plot, so being able to know for sure which areas are side areas is a godsend.

Also:

CuwiKhons posted:

You may favor the shotgun but it's the carbines you ignored (twice! :argh:) that never left my side.

So much this. Carbines wreck in this game.

Loxbourne
Apr 6, 2011

Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.
The goose step was just a formal parade march prior to WW2 (it's too tiring to do for long periods, so useless for field manoeuvres). It just acquired some nasty connotations. It wouldn't attract much comment during the time period they're aiming for.

Was that intentionally a goose step or just jerky mechanical movement? My only thought when I saw it for the first time was wondering how the little marionettes are powered. Both their feet lift off the rail, so I guess it must be another subtle little dash of high technology.

Ekster
Jul 18, 2013

When Elizabeth says "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it" she is quoting Proverbs 22:6. Perhaps she heard it in one of Comstocks' sermons? Interesting to note that when Booker asks her if she wrote it, she firmly says no without saying what the actual source is. I haven't played this game so I'm just speculating.

I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure if someone stabs you through the hand it becomes physically impossible to do much of anything what with cut tendons and everything. Guess Booker isn't a sissy like the rest of us and sucks it up like a man.

Shyrka
Feb 10, 2005

Small Boss likes to spin!
Every time he punches an elevator button after having his hand stabbed I wince hard.

Dinictus
Nov 26, 2005

May our CoX spray white sticky fluid at our enemies forever!
HAIL ARACHNOS!
Soiled Meat

Ekster posted:

I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure if someone stabs you through the hand it becomes physically impossible to do much of anything what with cut tendons and everything. Guess Booker isn't a sissy like the rest of us and sucks it up like a man.

He probably got a probably impossibly lucky draw of the hand there (heh). The cut seemed to be right through the back and palm, between the metacarpals. It should have done a number on his index finger muscles, maybe some nerve damage, but, well, video game logic.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Ekster posted:

When Elizabeth says "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it" she is quoting Proverbs 22:6. Perhaps she heard it in one of Comstocks' sermons? Interesting to note that when Booker asks her if she wrote it, she firmly says no without saying what the actual source is. I haven't played this game so I'm just speculating.

It also says something about Booker that he didn't recognize the quote; clearly he's not a god-fearing sort of person (not that that was really in question, but still that's a nice little exchange there).

Iceclaw
Nov 4, 2009

Fa la lanky down dilly, motherfuckers.

Dinictus posted:

He probably got a probably impossibly lucky draw of the hand there (heh). The cut seemed to be right through the back and palm, between the metacarpals. It should have done a number on his index finger muscles, maybe some nerve damage, but, well, video game logic.

Yeah, with a lot of luck, you may have no permanent damage. A mate of mine skewered his hand accidentally and just got off with two scars for it.

cokerpilot
Apr 23, 2010

Battle Brothers! Stop coming to meetings drunk and trying to adopt Tevery Best!

Lord General! Stop standing on the table and making up stupid operation names!

Emperor, why do I put up with these people?

Sundowner posted:


Wherein we go find where Elizabeth ran off too and explore yet another heavily populated civilian district in Columbia.

Sorry for the sort of rushed post, I'm dying to go to bed and sleep. The last week is really catching up on me and I'm about ready to clonk out. I'll update this post in the morning with some tidbits but nothing that will detract from the update itself in any way.

So what was the replica heater?

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

cokerpilot posted:

So what was the replica heater?

Another weapon.

DukeofCA
Aug 18, 2011

I am shocked and appalled.
The hand is one of the standard "hero areas", like the shoulder or the side, where you can take what should be a grievous injury and look like that much more of a badass when you shake it off and keep going like nothing happened.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Ekster posted:

I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure if someone stabs you through the hand it becomes physically impossible to do much of anything what with cut tendons and everything. Guess Booker isn't a sissy like the rest of us and sucks it up like a man.
Not to mention Booker also did the one thing you should never do when treating a stab wound: remove the bladed object yourself. What people forget about wounds like Booker's stab wound is that the knife acts as a plug for the blood flow, preventing you from bleeding out. However, Booker has removed the knife for what has to be roughly 10-15 minutes before Elizabeth manages to patch him up, all while doing stuff like holding and firing a gun, running at top speed and generally staying in motion. And then there's WHERE Booker gets stabbed to take into account, the middle of the hand. That's not only where important hand muscles are located, but veins for blood to the fingers. In short, Booker should have some amount of blood loss AND significant nerve/muscle damage from that wound and not just that small patch of blood on his palm we see, because there is no possible way for a stab like the one Booker got to miss EVERYTHING important in the hand.

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010

AradoBalanga posted:

Not to mention Booker also did the one thing you should never do when treating a stab wound: remove the bladed object yourself. What people forget about wounds like Booker's stab wound is that the knife acts as a plug for the blood flow, preventing you from bleeding out. However, Booker has removed the knife for what has to be roughly 10-15 minutes before Elizabeth manages to patch him up, all while doing stuff like holding and firing a gun, running at top speed and generally staying in motion. And then there's WHERE Booker gets stabbed to take into account, the middle of the hand. That's not only where important hand muscles are located, but veins for blood to the fingers. In short, Booker should have some amount of blood loss AND significant nerve/muscle damage from that wound and not just that small patch of blood on his palm we see, because there is no possible way for a stab like the one Booker got to miss EVERYTHING important in the hand.

Well as a counter argument:

video games

GenHavoc
Jul 19, 2006

Vive L'Empreur!
Vive La Surcouf!
Well, I hope I'm doing this right...


  1. I looked over that strange, mutating crystal formation inside the Shock Jockey several times at the beginning of the video and I can't tell what the hell it is supposed to be (or for that matter what the purpose of the machine it's hooked up to is. Is it supposed to be some kind of dynamo? Would that make the apparatus some form of generator? What connection does that have with the "Siphon" that was being used to draw off Elizabeth's excess power? Perhaps this is some form of smaller version of the siphon, drawing power from an unknown substance that has a connection with Elizabeth. Perhaps this is how Columbia generates the fantastic amounts of power it must require to stay aloft.

    EDIT: Nevermind. Based on the ad from later on, Shock Jockey would appear to be some kind of portable (and unstable) generator. Booker calls it an "alternative" to electricity, but that seems off somehow. It looks to me like just another means of generating it. I still suspect a connection to Elizabeth and the siphon, though.

  2. There was a discussion before that the artificial beach/ocean was some sort of infinite pool, wherein the water ran off and was reclaimed. Well and good, but the building ahead of us, whatever it is, features a waterfall that has to be five hundred feet high and stretches a mile from end to end. How the hell do you create an infinite pool the size of Niagara Falls? And why? You can't possibly reclaim all of that water, and what purpose would it serve even if you could?

    EDIT: Based on the map we later see of the immediate area, I assume that the waterfall is actually depositing the water directly into whatever feeds Battleship Bay, but then how is the water reclaimed and pumped back up to the original altitude? Quantum tunneling?

    You know, now that you mention it...

  3. I know why they would do such things, but as I mentioned for the last video, and others have mentioned since, Booker was firing his automatic pistol awfully well for someone who just got his hand impaled. He didn't even have any blood on it while firing. I know that there are limits to what one can do, but given the prominence his injury was shown in during that ambush sequence, you'd think they'd do something other than bringing the injury back only during cinematic moments, while otherwise acting as though it didn't happen in combat. Especially since they seem perfectly willing to change his hand to the bandaged version after Elizabeth fixes him up.

  4. Interesting how, when we caught the coin from Elizabeth, we actually gained $22. Since Columbia seems to run on the Silver standard, I decided to do a little checking. Between 1900 and 1920, the price of silver on the world market was remarkably consistent, at 0.65 American Dollars per troy ounce ($15.23 in today's dollars). Since this is 1912, and Columbia has only been independent for the last ten years or so, I think it's reasonable to assume that the Silver Eagle is probably comparable in size and silver content with the US Trade Dollar of 1873-1883, and the Morgan Dollar of 1878-1904. Both coins were approximately 27 grams (0.95 ounces) of a 90% silver/10% copper mix, with a consequent intrinsic value of 62 cents. If we assume a similar actual-value/intrinsic-value ratio to those coins, and we further assume that the coin Booker got from Elizabeth is indeed worth 22 Columbian Dollars, then one silver eagle must have 13.64 1912 dollars worth of silver in them, which amounts to 8.86 ounces of silver-copper alloy, or almost exactly eight ounces of silver per coin. That would mean that every Silver Eagle would weigh more than half a pound, which is flat impossible.

    However, if we further assume that the Columbian Dollar and the American one are not comparable, and that the exchange ratio between the two is 22:1 (thanks to the amount of "dollars" we picked up with one silver coin), then things become more manageable. This would render the Silver Eagle back down to the size and scale of the comparable American coins, but with higher purchasing power in Columbia (or perhaps simply higher prices). I recognize that this is somewhat circular logic (in that we have concluded that the Silver Eagle is comparable to the Morgan Dollar because we assumed initially that it was), but mechanically, it does make some sense. It also means that the Silver Eagle would be roughly a third of an ounce, or ten grams, of 90% pure silver. That's almost exactly twice the size of a modern American Quarter, or just slightly smaller than a US half-dollar. Big, but well in keeping with the standards of the day, which emphasized larger and more weighty coins, more readily acceptable to foreign merchants without a central bank.

    I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of matters metallurgical and numismatic will correct me on the above calculations.

  5. Someone else mentioned this after the last video, but Columbia is supposedly at somewhere around 15,000 feet of altitude, right? So how is it that the weather is in any way condusive to relaxing outside at the beach in a bathing suit? Ignoring the prevailing winds at that altitude in most cases, shouldn't the temperature be too cold for such things? And while it's perfectly possible to acclimatize oneself to that altitude's air pressure (the Sherpas and Andean peoples have done so), shouldn't Booker, who is from the surface, be huffing and puffing after every step? Perhaps (as I believe was suggested), the temple he arrived in at the start of the game was pressurized, and the baptism process involves somehow altering one's lung capacity to account for the thinner air.

  6. Soldier Field's entrance isn't exactly subtle isn't it? I had to listen to that song a couple times before I could figure out the lyrics, but there's references to 'rueing the day your race is intermixed', and that dimwit and duke poster is clearly meant to represent covetous Jews. Par for the course I suppose, but this is a more militaristic tone than we've previously seen. Earlier, Columbia seemed just to be a particularly racist society, albeit a normal one. This sounds more like something out of (forgive the obvious comparison) Nazi Germany, wherein other races are not merely inferior, but actively dangerous, waiting in the shadows to spring upon you and drown you in a tide of sub-humanity. The South got to this point at times, but usually only in local outbreaks of white panic. This isn't an inducement to keep minorities in their "place". It's an inducement to kill them before they kill you.

  7. Ahh, this begins to make more sense now. Soldier's Field seems to be a Columbia Security recruitment center. The poster in the office there about "Protecting Prosperity and Racial Purity" would confirm it. This is probably why they have a voxophone from Daisy Fitzroy sitting in a locker. Also, we learn that Fitzroy was once Comstock's personal servant. Perhaps she learned things there that led her to start the Vox Populi? We'll no doubt find out.

  8. That painting in the security office is interesting. It seems to represent the Teutonic Knights (that's a Teutonic cross on the shield), as well as what I think is a Prussian Dragoon or Cavalier. Both were images that the Nazis employed to cement the history of their 'racial struggles' against the 'inferior peoples' of the east. The Teutonic Knights in particular were instrumental in conquering what became Prussia out from under the Livonian and Slavic peoples that originally inhabited the area. A metaphor for the martyrs of old that sacrificed themselves to purify their Aryan race?

  9. "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it." - Proverbs, 22:6. Obviously words that Comstock lives by, along with a host of other megalomaniacal dictators I could mention.

  10. So Columbia's buildings fly based on Quantum Mechanics. That could mean drat near anything, but the line at the end there about Women's intuition could be taken in many ways. You could interpret it as meaning "crazy women and their crazy theories", or perhaps as meaning "things too complicated for us to understand we shall lump together as women's intuition". The former is deprecatory towards the achievements of Lutece. The latter acknowledges her superiority. It would not be out of place for both meanings to be current, at least in my mind. There's a case to be made that this would indicate that Columbia believes science itself to be "properly" a woman's domain.

  11. I've asked this before, but what the hell does salt have to do with Vigors? I suppose that without knowing what Vigors actually are, it's hard to answer, but Plasmids from the old game ran on Eve, which was some kind of stem cell concoction? Do Vigors run on table salt? Vigors just seem to be a stapled-on mechanic so far, one that is there only because the original game had them. We'll see if that changes.

  12. Everyone on the boardwalk is awful blase about Booker walking around with a drawn firearm. Incidentally, what happens if you try to steal from the cash register in the ice cream shop?

  13. So Booker had never heard of Columbia when he was called for this job? Then why the hell was he called for it? And why were Lutece and her brother (people keep calling him that) rowing him to the dock? All the previous theories about Booker's role in this come to mind, but there's still no confirmation.

  14. Anna died giving birth to a child, eh? Well so much for that theory...

    ... unless...

    Wildly Unsupported Theory #19: Elizabeth is Anna, Booker's daughter. She was taken from Booker somehow (probably without his knowledge), and brought to Columbia for reasons unknown. Whoever hired him knows about this, and intends to use this knowledge somehow to their advantage.

    Which leads to another possibility:

    Wildly Unsupported Theory #20: Booker hired himself to take this job, as part of some kind of causality chain to bring himself back together in the past with Anna and prevent her from becoming a cult leader who would lead Columbia to destroy the world. This entire sequence of events has happened many times before, which is why Lutece, an expert in quantum mechanics, knows where to find him at various points on his trip, and refers to him as though he wasn't even there. From her perspective, he's simply an automaton going through the causal motions, and every time she nudges him in a different direction to help direct him to victory (or perhaps to something else).

  15. I'd comment on how creepy the stuffed Songbirds are, but I had stuffed animals as a little kid that were far creepier in retrospect.

  16. Based on the graffiti and the comment from the black servant there about "time is coming", I would say that the Vox are getting ready for something huge. A revolution, perhaps? One instigated by Booker? Who can tell.

    This is the sort of thing that could well turn into a general race war though. We'll see how far Infinite is willing to take this...

  17. So the tears are portals to other dimensions, not just through time and space. This explains why the Return of the Jedi's title was changed. It might also explain where Columbia got all this wonderful advanced technology of theirs, as well as many other things. I look forward to evaluating everything we find in the future in the light of this development, but for now, I'll leave it at this.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

AradoBalanga posted:

Not to mention Booker also did the one thing you should never do when treating a stab wound: remove the bladed object yourself. What people forget about wounds like Booker's stab wound is that the knife acts as a plug for the blood flow, preventing you from bleeding out. However, Booker has removed the knife for what has to be roughly 10-15 minutes before Elizabeth manages to patch him up, all while doing stuff like holding and firing a gun, running at top speed and generally staying in motion. And then there's WHERE Booker gets stabbed to take into account, the middle of the hand. That's not only where important hand muscles are located, but veins for blood to the fingers. In short, Booker should have some amount of blood loss AND significant nerve/muscle damage from that wound and not just that small patch of blood on his palm we see, because there is no possible way for a stab like the one Booker got to miss EVERYTHING important in the hand.

To be fair, Booker pretty much had to remove the knife - it was pinning his hand to the desk and he needed to be able to move.

Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004



I thought it was understood that this whole game after this point was just embellished fiction Booker scrawled on bedsheets while dying of septicemia in a filthy, forgotten Comstock holding cell.

Of course the fatal detail of ignoring the wound while the rot set in was brushed over, such an ignoble death.

Rocketfish
Jul 2, 2007

*pshew!*
Thanks!

AradoBalanga posted:

Not to mention Booker also did the one thing you should never do when treating a stab wound: remove the bladed object yourself.

While we're at it: you probably shouldn't eat stuff you find in trash cans.

Or resort to kidnapping to settle a debt.

Hirayuki
Mar 28, 2010


GenHavoc posted:

I've asked this before, but what the hell does salt have to do with Vigors? I suppose that without knowing what Vigors actually are, it's hard to answer, but Plasmids from the old game ran on Eve, which was some kind of stem cell concoction? Do Vigors run on table salt?
I believe it's more like "salts" in the patent-medicine sense.

kvx687
Dec 29, 2009

Soiled Meat

A few notes: Elizabeth isn't throwing a single coin, the animation is the same regardless of how much money she throws you. She actually gathers all the money in a certain area or object and gives it to you. There's no indication of how much a silver eagle is worth, since Columbia never uses US dollars. As far as robbing the stores goes, it just sets off an alarm and calls in some soldiers.

Gideon020
Apr 23, 2011
Out on the boardwalk, down by the sea~

Really enjoying this LP so far, and it's approaching my favourite area of the game as well.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

CuwiKhons posted:

To be fair, Booker pretty much had to remove the knife - it was pinning his hand to the desk and he needed to be able to move.
True, I will give you that. But yeah, the only reason Booker's hand isn't a complete lifeless mess is because of Video Game Science and LogicTM.

That's not going to stop me from joining Shyrka in wincing at every time Booker slams his injured hand on a button, though.

Revenant Threshold
Jan 1, 2008

GenHavoc posted:

[*]Everyone on the boardwalk is awful blase about Booker walking around with a drawn firearm. Incidentally, what happens if you try to steal from the cash register in the ice cream shop?
Everyone goes hostile and it starts the False Shepard announcement event earlier. Likewise if you steal the replica heater.

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Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

GenHavoc posted:

Well, I hope I'm doing this right...

  1. Everyone on the boardwalk is awful blase about Booker walking around with a drawn firearm. Incidentally, what happens if you try to steal from the cash register in the ice cream shop?

The cops show up, and everyone flips out and tries to kill you. That happens if you steal anything or attack anyone - Sundowner's the first I've seen not provoke a massive firefight the second Booker arrives. Though it's hilarious to hit the Duke and Dimwit costume guys with Murder of Crows mid-performance.

Incidentally, am I the only one who feels sitting around and letting himself get stabbed in the hand is the choice that just plain makes no sense for Booker's character? If he's got anywhere near the experience we're told the trap should've been just as obvious to him as us, and it seems like he's just being an idiot for plot's sake - a murderous piece of poo poo that was happily involved in the Pinkertons and Wounded Knee doesn't seem like they'd hesitate to pull their gun there. Especially when you can hear the ticket guy talking to whoever their boss is about the fact you've stepped into the trap.

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