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Grapplejack posted:At least let the Enforcers have a secondary weapon specialty. it sucks having all your poo poo be centered around shotguns but they aren't so hot. I love the loco but I've been forced to only use the Mosconi lately, since it's the only shotgun that is worth anything. Prokhor Zakharov posted:Actually at the time I rarely used anything other then the crosskill/bronco, both of which were completely unaffected by the patch. They've already said multiple times that the m16 buff is unbalanced and they're fixing it so I'm confused as to what you want here? If you seriously can't play without the pre-patch uber shotguns then maybe it's time to step away from shooters for awhile cause holy poo poo you must suck. UberJumper posted:The mods never affected visibility.
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Sep 24, 2013 08:08
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 Should I or shouldn't I... Edit: I love how the only conceivable reason to nerf shotguns is that the secret tacticool AR illuminati fanboy club demanded that their gun become The Best One and Overkill bent over backwards to appease them. The only possible explanation.  I also can't wait for a fresh wave of hyperbole after the next patch hits. "They nerfed the Loco even more! Now it shoots backwards, hurting you with every shot. You can only hurt cops with it if they're inside your hitbox. It's ruined forever!!  "
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 08:33
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redweird posted:I wish they'd revert the Berlusconi visibility changes; i used to love going low vis and flanking cops. Felt like I was playing as a Scout from TF2. It seems like the only primary you can low vis with now is the CAR-4. You can still do this, but as far as I can tell - regardless of which armor you wear - it tends to require Chameleon 2 and ducking down behind that car as you circle it. Not really a big problem, you just can't run straight through them all like you used to. Shotguns are still great, all I need to do now is find the Renfield suppressor then I get to see how well the Enforcer shotgun skills dovetail with the Ghost suppressed fire ones.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:02
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I wish they released a special patch for anyone who complained about shotguns the last time around, now your shotgun farts harmless glitter with every pull of the trigger and every cop in the area stops and mocks your manhood. The Assault Rifle Gods demand such sacrifice.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:06
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Insert name here posted:Yeah, but he specified up close. Like I said I want them to boost the shotgun (Mosconi excluded) ranges back up (and I know they're going to do so for the Loco and the Saiga), but up close if you're having troubles still that's not the game's fault. I don't have problems up close with the Reinfeld, but it sucks that outside 10m, the weapon is useless and pushes me to switch to my secondary. Right now even the JP36 fully modded is a good weapon at close, medium or even long range and it has a ton of ammo. Right now feels like a CoD shotgun, powerful but pellets may aswell dissapear after a bunch of meters because they do no damage at all.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:09
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Guillermus posted:I don't have problems up close with the Reinfeld, but it sucks that outside 10m, the weapon is useless and pushes me to switch to my secondary. Right now even the JP36 fully modded is a good weapon at close, medium or even long range and it has a ton of ammo. Right now feels like a CoD shotgun, powerful but pellets may aswell dissapear after a bunch of meters because they do no damage at all. I'd like if they made it so enforcers could carry any shotgun as a secondary (mosco for outside / range stuff, loco for indoors, reinfield never because i hate that gun).
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Sep 24, 2013 10:16
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Daryl Surat posted:This got posted onto Twitter in rebuttal to the notion that shotguns need to be "fixed." It's a guy running Watchdogs Day 2 Overkill on the current build, staying outdoors nearly the whole time, running the Saiga and Locomotive--you know, those guns that just aren't that good such that the latter needs a buff?--and earning 91 kills with 65% headshots: Please be more careful when using level 100 builds to talk about weapon balance. You're not taking his Bulletproof ICTV combo which gives him more durability and time to dish out the damage. You're not comparing his experience to non-shotgun specialists (in terms of what skills are or aren't used), you're not taking into account the Overkill ability that does x2 damage for any weapon if Aced (just need one kill with a shotgun to start the buff), and not everyone is level 100. It takes a long time to reach that point without using other means. It took me 190+ hours to reach 100. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPKUWOGzox4 Here's my version using an AK7.62 and a Locomotive. That was my first time using Overkill Aced and getting used to the switching game took awhile. I racked up 96 kills with 28 of them being specials. At 7:00-7:44, you'll see the power of an OK AK against Dozers. OK and Berserker help shotguns to become more beastly, without them, they're not the grand killers (except the Mosconi) that people make them out to be and those abilities work with all guns when Aced. You need to look at the guns themselves and how they perform a bit more carefully, otherwise we could make a case for many more weapons needing a nerf. I use shotguns primarily for the satisfaction of the ragdoll effect. It feels good. Edit: It's a good thing that ARs and SMGs received buffs. I think some of the ARs deserve a better damage drop off rate. They should really be able to drop targets from a longer distance. Jamfrost fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 10:51
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Things pubbies actually believe: - A non-Technician teammate fixing a Technician's drill infects it with drill AIDS, removing all of the Technician's drill buffs, including the time reduction, somehow. Despite believing this, he was always off on a grand adventure somewhere far away from his drill. And as is usual with pubbies, it never occurs to them I might also be a Tech, even after I outright say so. - All of the drill perks combined render C4 completely useless on Firestarter Day 2! Don't worry, he'll stealth it with his super drill! *Shoots at a guard standing under a camera in the very first room.* Strangely enough, we then proceeded to really easily stealth Firestarter Day 3 with him as our primary sneak. 
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 12:53
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Bah I hate doing stealth runs and right when you pop out to shout a guard down he quick draws and gets a shot off before immediately surrendering. So frustrating because it blows the mission even if he was the last npc on the map. edit: Drill aids 
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Sep 24, 2013 12:53
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Jamfrost posted:I use shotguns primarily for the satisfaction of the ragdoll effect. It feels good. I agree 100%, but can actually be really useful, too. I take my silent Reinfeld on just about any stealth run. On levels like the jewelry store or art gallery or nightclub (anywhere that has wandering/patrolling civilians/guards) it's super convenient to be able to No Country For Old Men people's asses back through doorways, or sideways out of the line of sight of doorways.
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Sep 24, 2013 13:24
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John Murdoch posted:- A non-Technician teammate fixing a Technician's drill infects it with drill AIDS, removing all of the Technician's drill buffs, including the time reduction, somehow. Despite believing this, he was always off on a grand adventure somewhere far away from his drill. And as is usual with pubbies, it never occurs to them I might also be a Tech, even after I outright say so. What I seem to get a lot is that I'll start fixing a drill because I'm the only person nearby, then the Tech will rush over and start fixing it too when I'm halfway finished already. I fix it first of course, but get moaned at because "I FIX DRILLS FASTER FFS"... Great, except if you don't get to it before I'm 25% done then it doesn't make any difference.
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Sep 24, 2013 13:34
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My favorite is getting yelled at for picking up loose cash or the cash from a couple ATMs I sawed open because "Dude I have Dead Presidents we would have gotten a lot more!"
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Sep 24, 2013 13:37
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I've been tooling around with pistols since card flips have been dumping mods on me. I appreciate the stats conferred by marksman sights but the sight picture on them sucks, especially in the dark. I appreciate the variety of rifle/smg/shotty optics but they got lazy on pistols and really need to add a red dot or tritium night sights, something other than marksman.
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Sep 24, 2013 13:39
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I vote add tritium glow-in-the-dark mods that can be applied to ANY gun, because glow in the dark rocks and looks cool.
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Sep 24, 2013 13:42
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:I wish they released a special patch for anyone who complained about shotguns the last time around, now your shotgun farts harmless glitter with every pull of the trigger and every cop in the area stops and mocks your manhood. You mean they didn't do that already? I mean honestly if you could stop cops with them they would be more useful than they are now. But seriously enforcers already get a saw and all the melee perks, we didn't need any more melee weapons. There's plenty less loving retarded ways they could have balanced them that didn't involve tamping human feces into every shell instead of lead. It's pretty loving depressing being an enforcer really, I just got iron man suit... Now I can be slow AND weak at the same time. It's like the idea that picking the shooter mans skills rather than the sneaker mans fixer mans or shouter mans would make you stronger at shooting the other mans was forgotten on release day. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 14:32
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Shima Honnou posted:My favorite is getting yelled at for picking up loose cash or the cash from a couple ATMs I sawed open because "Dude I have Dead Presidents we would have gotten a lot more!" To which you could just toss back at them "If you actually wasted skill points in Dead Presidents then uninstall the loving game".
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Sep 24, 2013 14:41
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Motherfucker posted:You mean they didn't do that already? I mean honestly if you could stop cops with them they would be more useful than they are now. The worst part for me is that in the same patch they also heavily nerfed payouts, yet all the skills cost the same amount, so respecing now requires me to get something like 9 million spending cash, which is some stupid large number of missions. So I'm stuck as enforcer for another couple days. They really need to decrease the cost of buying skills, or increase the amount you get back when respecing. This is supposed to be a fun shoot-mans game, why am I being heavily restricted in changing my play style?
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Sep 24, 2013 14:55
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John Murdoch posted:Things pubbies actually believe: Let me add: -More cash = more xp. All it takes is an intermediate glance at the XP gain window to see that isn't the case. People who believe this usually try to convince others to stick around for extra loot, like safety deposit boxes or a loving four minute safe. Greedy players love getting their teammates killed.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:08
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Caufman posted:Let me add: Is it really a risk if I'm running about the level murdering everyone in sight so you can pick every last bit of the level clean before we leave? Yeah we don't have to, but so what? We're here to shoot cops and steal poo poo, get to it. I've got the shooting covered. And if for some reason you happen to stub your toe and fall over and can't get up, I'll run over and yell "Get the gently caress up" so you are back to your job lickity split.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:15
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I'm just a bit angry my Mosconi tattoo is an even worse life choice now. Kidding of course, though if getting a tempt tattoo was cheap I would have all the crazy pubbie ARG secrets put on my back and post a picture explaining that I AM THE RED DRAGON.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:20
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Bats posted:Is it really a risk if I'm running about the level murdering everyone in sight so you can pick every last bit of the level clean before we leave? If there isn't any risk, then the game is not difficult enough, which isn't your fault. However I still find that the games I play carry risk, and when I host a room, completing the job takes priority. Personally I can't stand showboating in a co-op game. When I announce it's time to leave, everyone better be heading for the goddamn van.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:26
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They should have a drunk heist where you have to break into a sandwich shop in the middle of the night to make yourself a sandwich.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:37
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 Not pictured: the part where you get kicked for having absolutely no useful skills.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:38
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Motherfucker posted:You mean they didn't do that already? I mean honestly if you could stop cops with them they would be more useful than they are now. I still rock the mosconi primary every single game and still top the chart in kills, still murder bitches and still survive like a champ. If you can't, you just suck at this game. ten_twentyfour posted:The worst part for me is that in the same patch they also heavily nerfed payouts They didn't nerf payouts, it was a bug.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:40
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SaucyLoggins posted:They should have a drunk heist where you have to break into a sandwich shop in the middle of the night to make yourself a sandwich. "Add cheese to continue the process."
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Sep 24, 2013 15:41
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Captain Swing posted:"Add cheese to continue the process." "Alright time... looks like we need to add lettuce next? No wait- tomato! Hang on, I'm trying to rewind Spongebob!
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Sep 24, 2013 15:42
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Motherfucker posted:You mean they didn't do that already? I mean honestly if you could stop cops with them they would be more useful than they are now. Put some points in Ghost to get the movement bonus and grab an AR and some suppression stuff. You can pin down an entire street by yourself, take a good amount of hits and still move out of the way to regain armor. If you ace Iron Man, you can punch shields back and take them out while sprinting, too. Just get creative and stop going "OH GOD MY NUMBERS AREN'T HIGH ENOUGH!"
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Sep 24, 2013 15:43
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big mean giraffe posted:I still rock the mosconi primary every single game and still top the chart in kills, still murder bitches and still survive like a champ. If you can't, you just suck at this game. Your penis is very small though. Also that's not the issue, the issue is that apparently 'balance' (in a game where you exclusively fight npcs who can be made arbitrarily tougher or weaker...) means to bring the shooter guy, the guy with no real skill other than surviving and shooting bitches (with shotguns) down in line with everyone else. cheezit posted:Put some points in Ghost to get the movement bonus and grab an AR and some suppression stuff. You can pin down an entire street by yourself, take a good amount of hits and still move out of the way to regain armor. If you ace Iron Man, you can punch shields back and take them out while sprinting, too. Just get creative and stop going "OH GOD MY NUMBERS AREN'T HIGH ENOUGH!" Next logical step, respec to ghostermind. All the benefits and you can yell people awake! Yell people to sleep and yell people to the dark side. Or become a Mindtech and get ten times the armor and act just like you would think enforcer would act without having to use the weapons that got specifically singled out and turned into trash. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 15:43
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ten_twentyfour posted:The worst part for me is that in the same patch they also heavily nerfed payouts, yet all the skills cost the same amount, so respecing now requires me to get something like 9 million spending cash, which is some stupid large number of missions. So I'm stuck as enforcer for another couple days. They really need to decrease the cost of buying skills, or increase the amount you get back when respecing. This is supposed to be a fun shoot-mans game, why am I being heavily restricted in changing my play style? I don't really remember what it was like before, it seems to be better for single day jobs and about the same for multi day heists. Doubling the cost of weapons and attaching mods really hurts. I'm always moving my limited selection of sights and barrel extensions around.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:46
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I'm not even specced in Enforcer at all beyond the bag throwing skill, but I still rock faces with the Mosconi. I'm the little weak healer Mastermind guy, and it still kills the poo poo out of whatever I aim at. So I guess what I'm saying is that the problem might, just might, be you.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:47
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Carecat posted:I don't really remember what it was like before, it seems to be better for single day jobs and about the same for multi day heists. Doubling the cost of weapons and attaching mods really hurts. I'm always moving my limited selection of sights and barrel extensions around. Fixed. Go nuts.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:49
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In honor of all the tears shed by people who can never play another video game thanks to Overkill's( ) desecration of all things good and wholesome in the world, and after seeing the video of a guy totally not owning everyone's face with a saiga, I rerolled out of Ghostermind/Masterghost since everyone seems to be doing it these days.I want to try out the shotties again with the headshot bonus of the Tech so I have those skills up to the reload bonus for shotties. I went through ghost up to the armor move penalty reduction and so I could get the SMG skill aced so I have a long range backup (MP5 4 Lyfe). I took all the drill and c4 skills in tech so I had a party piece since I was giving up inspiration and safe cracking. I also ran up through mastermind up to joker. http://goo.gl/bNdMDX All this has left me with what looks like a pretty good jack of all trades build. I can handle doors and safes with charges, drill everything else, can solo stealth, and I can do damage at the same time. It's perhaps not optimized, but it lets me always be useful and do it with worthless shotties. Any thoughts?
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Sep 24, 2013 15:51
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I respecced out of the enforcer shotgun skills, but the Mosconi is still pretty great for reliably one-shotting tans. You just need to properly utilize cover and plan your movement around the reloads. I carry a tricked-out Para for longer-range manshooting or for melting 'dozer faceplates.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:54
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Enforcer is still the best at shooting and living, you get the saw which is not only great for sawing open poo poo but also killing dozers, you get all the ammo in the world and if you take fully loaded ace you hardly even need ammo bags at all. Shotguns are the only guns i use, the saiga is a beast and i love it. This is the spec i use now and it works great. You have the saw, you have C4, you can't sneak for poo poo but that's not why i spec into enforcer, the gently caress poo poo up spec. I don't know what to tell you, get a saiga and kill 10 cops with 3 shots down a corridor. Bring some kind of SMG as a backup, or a pistol? Whatever. I'm sorry shotguns aren't better then AR's at long range anymore. Buy a Saiga.
Killstick fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 15:54
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Jamfrost posted:Please be more careful when using level 100 builds to talk about weapon balance. You're not taking his Bulletproof ICTV combo which gives him more durability and time to dish out the damage. You're not comparing his experience to non-shotgun specialists (in terms of what skills are or aren't used), you're not taking into account the Overkill ability that does x2 damage for any weapon if Aced (just need one kill with a shotgun to start the buff), and not everyone is level 100. It takes a long time to reach that point without using other means. It took me 190+ hours to reach 100. I don't think it's accurate to say I wasn't careful about what I was saying, or that I wasn't taking those things into account. This is some added bold emphasis to what you just quoted me: Daryl Surat posted:The most unbelievable part for me is around the 5:50 mark where he just obliterates multiple waves of tan SWATs with minimal effort thanks to the fact that he's mostly specced himself Enforcer along with Technician. I simply can't fathom seeing how that would be done without shotguns and without perks. You're certainly not likely to kill multiple tans on single shots with any AR. The trouble with the whole argument is that people are saying the guns are no good using the baseline argument of how viable they are on Overkill difficulty. Yes, I understand that you can't hip-fire THAT well until you're Tier 5. I get that there's no taking out Shields so seemingly nonchalantly (approach head-on, melee, then fire once) without Aced Iron Man. You would probably not be able to even start attempting Overkill with reasonable levels of success until you were around the 50-60 level range since that's about when you can have multiple perks for the same weapon type. You can't even combine Aced Bulletproof with Aced Iron Man unless you're like, level 88. (I'm a few levels away from 50 and that took 40+ hours, so Overkill's a bit too much if I'm the highest level person in the crew.) Overkill viability is all anyone's really discussing since that represents the "worst case" conditions, but you don't have much chance of winning (non-stealth) Overkill heists if you don't have damage and health perks. I don't see this as too much of a problem. The final weapon unlock (Mosconi) isn't until around level 39, and while nobody would actually DO this, at that level you would have just enough points to spec up to having one of the basic Tier 6 skills were you to be crazy and put everything in one class. Realistically you'd be at Tier 2 or 3 throughout all classes instead, meaning you maybe have just one weapon with a damage buff. So perhaps that scenario is what everyone should be considering as part of your "look at the guns themselves" advice, because that better represents the baseline (probably) unmodded state of the weapons. But if we do that, then we should NOT be talking about how so-and-so gun sucks because it can only one-hit kill the toughest non-special unit in the game on highest difficulty when at close range. We should be saying that the issues with one weapon group versus another is that some are less viable in the mid-game than others, with the goal being that each weapon type should be useful throughout, taking into account that you aren't given access to shotguns and SMGs at first.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:00
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Daryl Surat posted:I don't think it's accurate to say I wasn't careful about what I was saying, or that I wasn't taking those things into account. This is some added bold emphasis to what you just quoted me: Wow this way way more eloquent than my post I think it's adorable people are posting their level 100 builds and saying 'why can't you just do everything all the time? I top the scoreboard in this NPC fighting game where my only other competition is four other people on the same team who likely don't care about that trivial poo poo??' Shotguns aren't loving useful to me, an enforcer, the shotgun guy... Till the day I can get every perk from every tree and run at the speed of sound and tape magical bullet reflecting technician post-its to my lovely iron man suit I'm not going to last with trash shotguns, better to use the unconscionably OP m-16 and let my armor take the one or two hits I will receive at that range. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 16:03
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Motherfucker posted:Wow this way way more eloquent than my post If you are so outraged, take a moral stand and stop playing. Better for everyone.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:08
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Daryl Surat posted:So perhaps that scenario is what everyone should be considering as part of your "look at the guns themselves" advice I'm level 60 with my only shotgun skill being Shotgun Impact 2 and an unmodified Mosconi and I have not noticed any nerf whatsoever in my normal style of play. Maybe I can't hit that dude way up on the cliff in Rats any more. I shouldn't have been able to in the first place. The rest of the time, as long as I remember to do poo poo like bring armor or duck behind cover, I'm fine.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:09
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Motherfucker posted:Not pictured: the part where you get kicked for having absolutely no useful skills. I'm sorry you feel like that but I've played with a good bunch of goon enforcers that only leave bodies wherever they move or even look at. Az isn't one of them because he isn't an enforcer, he is the german version of the T-101, a slow murder machine. I tried today a modified version of his skillset and holy poo poo, I feel like I don't need to sprint, just point, kill and gather ammo from the ground: http://www.pd2skills.info/#/profile/murder-machine-4/
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Sep 24, 2013 16:12
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Nyyen posted:If you are so outraged, take a moral stand and stop playing. Better for everyone. Why don't you just say 'u mad' and get it out of your system you terrible poster.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:13
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