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Infamous Sphere posted:I have to say I'm in some kind of agreement with this, although it's a bit harshly worded and I've gotten trouble in this thread before for being too personally critical. I do think Venn's interjections..don't necessarily work the way that Kyle intends them to, seeing as people mostly watch the show for Kyle, and not for Venn. In regards to undermining Kyle's ability to give an informed opinion - it too, did feel a bit forced and crappy, since..after all, it's an opinion. I'm assuming this was Kyle's attempt at covering his arse, but I think it's fine to have an opinion on how good a film is, when it isn't about people exactly like you. After all, it's an opinion - a brief statement of how other people might have different views, and he can't speak for LGBT women would be sufficient enough. I think after the Honey BooBoo Fake Symhpathy video where he pits her along with sideshow freaks and the segment where he whined at the mentally disabled for finding the Tropic Thunder "Retard" discussion to be somewhat objectionable in word choice he's trying at least give more of a genuine poo poo about trying to find the gender perspective on this artistic thingy that happens to be fap material, specially since that Ven's genderqueer and non straight I think. Not to mention they cowrote rather than just Kyle calling most of the shots and Ven giving a hand here and there. If that means less "Oh, I think I can be a jackass about this particular subject after a lot of this and that", that's fine by me.
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Oct 4, 2013 18:21
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Kunster posted:I think after the Honey BooBoo Fake Symhpathy video where he pits her along with sideshow freaks and the segment where he whined at the mentally disabled for finding the Tropic Thunder "Retard" discussion to be somewhat objectionable in word choice he's trying at least give more of a genuine poo poo about trying to find the gender perspective on this artistic thingy that happens to be fap material, specially since that Ven's genderqueer and non straight I think. Not to mention they cowrote rather than just Kyle calling most of the shots and Ven giving a hand here and there. If that means less "Oh, I think I can be a jackass about this particular subject after a lot of this and that", that's fine by me. I'm pretty sure he wasen't comparing Honey Boo Boo to circus freaks so much as he was comparing the public's perception of her to that.
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Oct 4, 2013 18:30
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Kunster posted:I think after the Honey BooBoo Fake Symhpathy video where he pits her along with sideshow freaks and the segment where he whined at the mentally disabled for finding the Tropic Thunder "Retard" discussion to be somewhat objectionable in word choice he's trying at least give more of a genuine poo poo about trying to find the gender perspective on this artistic thingy that happens to be fap material, specially since that Ven's genderqueer and non straight I think. Not to mention they cowrote rather than just Kyle calling most of the shots and Ven giving a hand here and there. If that means less "Oh, I think I can be a jackass about this particular subject after a lot of this and that", that's fine by me. A lot of that backlash is coming from people who are looking to get riled up and are skipping over the actual point so that they can thrust their "I'm offended on behalf of other people and thus a sensible and moral person" persona out into the world. Honey Boo Boo is sideshow television. The Thompson family are circus freaks inasmuch as they are a deviant-from-the-percieved-norm family that's being exploited by a larger organization for the entertainment of a target market. In one case a Polynesian man is exploited by a circus for the entertainment of midwestern white Protestants, in the other a poor rural family is exploited by a television network for the entertainment of, well, midwestern white Protestants. And the "never go full-retard" segment is offensive because it's supposed to be offensive, but the target of the offence is The System  . I don't normally like Hollywood-talking-about-Hollywood movies, but Tropic Thunder is one of the few truly great satires to come out in recent memory. The entire point of that segment is to expose and mock the power structure. You're supposed to get offended, but you're also supposed to realize that "wait, it's true, we do reward movies that sanitize and disarm mental disabilities, WHAT THE gently caress!?." The entire point of RDJ's character is to point out that The System is callous, heartless, and interested in only money, fame, and prestige; that they treat disabilities, race, sexuality, and femininity as "gimmicks" that they can stick onto a character to appeal to the sensibilities of their audience.Of course Kyle's a smart and articulate person, but he stands up to criticism like a wet newspaper in a hurricane.
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Oct 4, 2013 19:52
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I really wish web artist folk would stop leaning of the "heh, I'll get poo poo for it anyway from oversensitive pussies  " clause, given that it tends to be a crutch on both their craft and relationship to the audience. He's getting better at handling stuff like this, and hopefully he'll find a less clunky or awkward way of addressing stuff like this in the future.
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Oct 4, 2013 20:55
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Kunster posted:I really wish web artist folk would stop leaning of the "heh, I'll get poo poo for it anyway from oversensitive pussies I don't think Kyle has ever been like this, to my knowledge, if he's who you're referring to here. I could be wrong, though? I don't follow most critics outside of their shows.  I now it is a common problem among certain other critics, though. (I'm looking at you Brad "You are stupid for being offended at things *gets offended at a horror parody movie*" Jones)
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Oct 4, 2013 21:23
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Lindsey, Andrew Dickman, Phil Buni and a few others had bouts of it a few months ago. Yeah Brad Jones is the worst about it. I guess I tend to be harsh with folk if they try to push the envelope and are vocal about it, and not out of spite and more like someone who wants them to keep growing. I've seen this happen to doodlers and lpers and it ain't pretty to look at.
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Oct 4, 2013 22:36
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In my experience, most producers tend to bend over backwards to try not to offend people, and if they do, inadvertendly or not, they again practically bend over backwards to apologize. If I'm brutally honest, it's come to the point where when you're trying to be funny, you have to walk on so many eggshells it's becoming hard to not crack a few.
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Oct 5, 2013 00:03
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The Adventure Time vlogs start Doug is understandably very confused. I remember sharing his views at the start. AT isn't great at introducing itself for a few episodes. EDIT: \/ Yeah, like I said the first few episodes don't really introduce the world/show very well. I want to see what Doug thinks once he reaches The Enchiridion. Also, of course the comments are full of bronies saying he should have done MLP. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 01:06
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Jesto posted:Doesn't Adventure Time not really have an overall plot, or much in the way of continuity / character developer whatsoever? It seems like just a great big ball of randomness. It's funny how you can always tell someone hasn't watched the show by this assessment. From the outside, sure. There's no plot, it's a lot of random. And there's plenty of one off episodes, sure. But there's lots of continuity, genuine character growth, many plot threads and complex relationships. Something that seems random in season one, will have HUGE implications in season 4. It's why so many adults love it. It's lots of manic colorful cartoon crazy, sure. But there's substance, plot, character, and intelligence behind it all. And I wonder how long it will take Doug to realize this.
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Oct 5, 2013 01:08
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Nevermind.
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Oct 5, 2013 01:14
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While there's continuity in some of the later seasons, Adventure Time is still mainly an episodic series the likes of Cartoon Network's older series. I think watching it for the "plot" is rather silly, its' main appeal is being a well-written comedy that appeals directly to both kids and adults with a sense of nostalgia for the late 90s-era cartoons.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:00
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Jesto posted:I watched the entire first season to give it a shot. Every episode was disconnected from the rest, none of the episodes appeared to have anything to do with the rest beyond recurring characters and the humor came off as extremely random. You're telling me I have to watch later seasons for anything in season 1 to have any relevance? It is still mostly standalone episodes, but starting in the 2nd (and really picking up in the 3rd) episodes start really expanding on the world and characters with a lot of development occurring over the course of several episodes. As I think it was brought up before, Ice King alone becomes a very different character once you get some of his backstory.
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Oct 5, 2013 02:12
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cubs2084 posted:It's funny how you can always tell someone hasn't watched the show by this assessment. From the outside, sure. There's no plot, it's a lot of random. And there's plenty of one off episodes, sure. But there's lots of continuity, genuine character growth, many plot threads and complex relationships. Something that seems random in season one, will have HUGE implications in season 4. It's why so many adults love it. It's lots of manic colorful cartoon crazy, sure. But there's substance, plot, character, and intelligence behind it all. The plot really doesn't come in until, what, season two, three? Also I'm gonna be honest, a lot of the 'seemingly random things have huge implications' are pretty dumb at this point. Like that episode where that weird ghost was Finn in a past life or something, and Finn's obsession with robot arms is obviously going to do something but it's so annoyingly telegraphed it's less 'clever' and more 'boring' at this point. Some podcast I listened to described moments like these perfectly to me, but they were talking about super hero movies where some character name drops another character/location in the IP. They're moments for you to elbow your friend and go 'eeeeh?' and treating them as more is just painfully shoehorning something in. The 'special relationship developments' and all are also fairly hit or miss, mainly the Simon and Marcy stuff which keeps switching from generic post apocalyptic pseudo-world building to A Very Special Adventure Time About Alzheimer's Or Addiction Or Whatever Else You Attach To That poo poo. Also given how poo poo Doug usually is at remembering super basic details I don't think he's going to 'catch' any of the arcane callbacks.
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Oct 5, 2013 05:29
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Tatum Girlparts posted:
Make Doug review Homestuck. It'll be a punishment for everyone involved, participant and witness.
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Oct 5, 2013 05:50
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AriadneThread posted:Make Doug review Homestuck. He's done that 'put a fake gun in my mouth and have humorously fake blood spray out the back' joke a couple times, right? It won't be a joke.
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Oct 5, 2013 06:00
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LFK posted:Maybe I'm just a bitter, jaded person, but listening to someone talk about how magical and psychic their super magical relationship is in all its super magical and psychic beauty makes me want to start stabbing. No, it went on way too long, honestly to the point of being uncomfortable. It went on. And on. And on. And the whole "this feels real to me" bit just felt like turning a blind eye to the super male-gazeyness of the film. Which it was, oh man it was. I really didn't like how Venn's segue undermined Kyle's (much more context-oriented and, well, better) point.
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Oct 5, 2013 07:37
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miscellaneous14 posted:While there's continuity in some of the later seasons, Adventure Time is still mainly an episodic series the likes of Cartoon Network's older series. I think watching it for the "plot" is rather silly, its' main appeal is being a well-written comedy that appeals directly to both kids and adults with a sense of nostalgia for the late 90s-era cartoons. This. The idea that fandom ruins everything isn't a new one, but it's definitely affected the perception of Adventure Time in a weird way. The fact that a lot of thought, continuity and attention to detail goes into Adventure Time is just a neat bonus. It's not the point of the show. Many people hearing about the show as this super callback and mythos-heavy fantasy cartoon try to watch the first season with that mindset and go "THIS IS JUST A RANDOMNESS-FUELED KIDDIE CARTOON." ...And I'm like "But it's hilarious. This is a really neat comedy. This is frankly the funniest and most creative cartoon I've seen in years." And I chalk it up to "a lotta nerds have a poo poo sense of humor" when I see most people obsessing over the tidbits of drama and puzzle pieces you get in just a few episodes here and there at the expense of how wonderful the show is just on its surface as a surrealist comedy appreciable by all ages. (A lotta people in general have poo poo taste, I'm not trying to single out nerds, but nerd poo poo-taste is often a different flavor from populist poo poo-taste.) Enjoy Adventure Time however you want, but don't mis-represent its basic goal and appeal: it is a show for children...but it's also largely for adults with a childlike sense of humor. Don't get me wrong, I love the drama and the thoughtful elements immensely. I'm not dismissing how nice it is to have them as a reward for watching the show season after season, episode after episode and seeing things you thought were random come together with some real grace and depth to make the goofy world feel real, but the more the show becomes purely about that, the less enjoyable it really is in retrospect. ("Sky Witch" and "The Vault" from this season are good examples of this...both messy, overstuffed, and not really hitting a tone of either funny or sweet, just...weird backstory or furthering plot for its own sake.) The standalone episodes that just put tiny nuggets in for longtime viewers while mostly being weird little comedy bits are much stronger. ("The Suitor" and "All Your Fault" are super-memorable for that this season. They're continuity-heavy under the surface, but still funny even if you don't know what's come before.) ...And then funny and dumb for funny and dumb's sake is always great. ("The Great Bird Man" and "Princess Potluck" had me on the floor giggling...) ...I should stop talking about Adventure Time. I love it a lot.  Kunster posted:I really wish web artist folk would stop leaning of the "heh, I'll get poo poo for it anyway from oversensitive pussies Naw man. Naaaaaw man, that affects plenty of internet "critics," but Kyle, no way. Kyle has precisely the *opposite* problem of this. He does his best to address every alternate viewpoint and potential rebuttal before it arises, which is an instinct I have too, so I get it...but it can hurt his work and make it seem suppressed or directionless at worst, which I really hate to say was in full force in his latest video.  I hope he tackles something he's more passionate about next time, which may help. He said himself he thought the movie was mediocre and then seemed too afraid to make a definitive statement on it, so he left it to Ven and...yeah. I don't think it played.
Jay O fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Oct 5, 2013 |
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Oct 5, 2013 13:23
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Jay O posted:
Yeah, I don't see  as an accurate criticism of Kyle. I don't keep up with what everyone says all the time but I've never seen him say something controversial and then be totally dismissive of his dissenters.
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Oct 5, 2013 17:47
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Personally I'm looking forward to his Beyond The Black Rainbow review. That one oughta put him on more comfortable footing.
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Oct 5, 2013 17:59
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Don't mind Kunster, Jay O. That guy seems to have a deep hatred toward anything related to Doug Walker.
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Oct 5, 2013 19:49
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rjryan3 posted:Don't mind Kunster, Jay O. That guy seems to have a deep hatred toward anything related to Doug Walker. They didn't say anything to each other, though?
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Oct 5, 2013 20:14
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Regular Show has also dipped it's toes into the wells of continuity and callbacks like Adventure Time as well with similarly great results, hell I think it's more heavy into it than AT.
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Oct 5, 2013 21:01
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Doug takes on Trouble in Lumpy Space. He's even more lost from before. http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/40827-adventure-time-vlogs-trouble-in-lumpy-space
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Oct 6, 2013 01:19
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I'm harsh because they point to these standards from outbursts but then rather than go or even attempt to them, they just pewter around.Jay O posted:Naw man. Naaaaaw man, that affects plenty of internet "critics," but Kyle, no way. Kyle has precisely the *opposite* problem of this. He does his best to address every alternate viewpoint and potential rebuttal before it arises, which is an instinct I have too, so I get it...but it can hurt his work and make it seem suppressed or directionless at worst, which I really hate to say was in full force in his latest video. My issues was less with himself and how more there were times where he bonked into those sorts of walls only to be drowned with "No, it's fine, it's just oversensitiveness of everyone else!". It's good that he recently STOPPED riding the wave so much and go for other sources, even if sometimes he reblogs sycohpants or doesn't see the same massage of disdain on other media he likes so much like the Sorkin poo poo or Idiocracy. Kunster fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 6, 2013 |
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Oct 6, 2013 11:04
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Kunster posted:My issues was less with himself and how more there were times where he bonked into those sorts of walls only to be drowned with "No, it's fine, it's just oversensitiveness of everyone else!". It's good that he recently STOPPED riding the wave so much and go for other sources, even if sometimes he reblogs sycohpants or doesn't see the same massage of disdain on other media he likes so much like the Sorkin poo poo or Idiocracy. What the hell are you talking about?
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Oct 6, 2013 22:06
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Check his twitter where he talks about this (scroll down a little) and then evaluate the general TGWTG's response to Aaron Sorkin's The NewsRoom and Idiocracy. I feel its rather hypocritical to bash a show that outright spells out what it is and ended up negotiating a good deal between the family (The money goes right to a college fund for BooBoo herself and the check went to more utilitarian stuff like a van) and then ignore or even endorse other more insidious ways of insulting or outright loving over poor people.
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Oct 6, 2013 22:21
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Kunster posted:Check his twitter where he talks about this (scroll down a little) and then evaluate the general TGWTG's response to Aaron Sorkin's The NewsRoom and Idiocracy. I feel its rather hypocritical to bash a show that outright spells out what it is and ended up negotiating a good deal between the family (The money goes right to a college fund for BooBoo herself and the check went to more utilitarian stuff like a van) and then ignore or even endorse other more insidious ways of insulting or outright loving over poor people. And the general TGWTG response to NewsRoom and Idiocracy is... all over the place, almost as if they're a bunch of individuals with vastly different backgrounds and priorities (though the average seems to place the opinion of both around "overhyped, reckless idealism" for The NewsRoom and "overly cynical view of socioeconomics" for Idiocracy).
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Oct 6, 2013 23:09
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I'm not familiar with Idiocracy or The Newsroom, so I'm not sure how a satire and a TV show compare with Honey Boo Boo in the "loving over the poor" department? (Not trying to be snide or anything, I seriously would like to know. As stated; I don't know much about Idiocracy or The Newsroom)
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Oct 6, 2013 23:12
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Did you know that you can think that it's both good that her mother is being responsible with the money she makes, and also hosed up that no matter how good a college she goes to she's going to be best known for being drinking go go juice and talking about her mother's neck crust? You can be exploitative without being cartoon bad people.
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Oct 6, 2013 23:27
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dijon du jour posted:I'm not familiar with Idiocracy or The Newsroom, so I'm not sure how a satire and a TV show compare with Honey Boo Boo in the "loving over the poor" department?
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Oct 6, 2013 23:36
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It's classist, but there was a more through investigation and negotiation between the family and TLC so that it wouldn't be worse than what it is, hence why I pointed out how the payment ordeal went (It wasn't just "oh, they're being responsible", it was that it was specifically demanded that this would help their situation without being able to sit on said money). The NewsRoom however does the line of the "easily mentally exploitated poor right wing viewers (and occasional uppity strawman for the sake of "equality"" and Fox News vs the *enlightened pseudo-MSNBC mainstream liberals* who then take down people who care too much about holding the same standards and end up saying stupid poo poo like "WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE 1950's, STRAWMEN" on a speech that gets on a gif set and shared by nearly everyone not getting just how messed up as a concept it is. I'm not saying it's bad to insult HoneyBooBoo, but it rubs me the wrong way without a general acknowledgement that a lot of other media likes to use that same cudgel and target, like someone trying to decry sexism in rap music without acknowledging it on other media forms. Kunster fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 00:04
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Kunster posted:It's classist, but there was a more through investigation and negotiation between the family and TLC so that it wouldn't be worse than what it is, hence why I pointed out how the payment ordeal went (It wasn't just "oh, they're being responsible", it was that it was specifically demanded that this would help their situation without being able to sit on said money). The NewsRoom however does the line of the "easily mentally exploitated poor right wing viewers (and occasional uppity strawman for the sake of "equality"" and Fox News vs the *enlightened pseudo-MSNBC mainstream liberals* who then take down people who care too much about holding the same standards and end up saying stupid poo poo like "WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE 1950's, STRAWMEN" on a speech that gets on a gif set and shared by nearly everyone not getting just how messed up as a concept it is. I'm sorry, but just because her family is getting paid doesn't mean they're not being exploited. When Kyle is saying that Honey Boo Boo is the modern sideshow, he's saying that it's hosed up that we're treating this family like a bunch of animals at a zoo! And maybe the reason he picked Honey Boo Boo as his example of exploitation in today's society because that show is what pops up for most people! This is what I mean about you hating everything related to Doug Walker. You criticizing Kyle for doing something that he isn't actually doing!
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Oct 7, 2013 01:00
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rjryan3 posted:This is what I mean about you hating everything related to Doug Walker. You criticizing Kyle for doing something that he isn't actually doing!
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Oct 7, 2013 02:55
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http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/40846-adventure-time-vlogs-prisoners-of-love Now lets sweet Brad thinks of the show E: I kind of want to see Brad do Regular Show vlogs now, because of how much a fan he is of the 80s. achillesforever6 fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 04:50
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I played AVGN Adventures a lot this weekend, and had a good time doing it.  There are some people crying "It's not worth $15!  " as if that's is a fortune, saying that it's either too hard or too easy. Don't listen to them; they're just the usual suspects.If you had Battletoads as a kid and enjoyed how hard it punched you in the balls, you'll like this game. Actually, I played that with a Game Genie and still couldn't beat it, and it cost $50 for the privilege-- yet it was still a great, fun game. So AVGN Adventures is fair by comparison despite complaints to the contrary. I've died about 700 times, no joke, but I'm still going on since easy mode has infinite lives and plentiful checkpoints. And here's a ProJared review of the game, in which he gives it a 5/10, but spends a 9/10 ratio of the video making GBS threads on the game. I don't think he's got a vendetta. I just think he's a huge nitpicking nerd lacking entertainment value, and that's why no one ever talks about him in this thread. Ema Nymton fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 18:04
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Ema Nymton posted:I played AVGN Adventures a lot this weekend, and had a good time doing it. Here is a first look at it by TotalBiscuit. In short, he finds it reiterative as a challenging platformer, but chock full of insider jokes and references that fans of AVGN will find it a treat. From what I saw of it, I found the judicious use of checkpoints to be a good way to balance out the more difficult platform elements. If it was a genre I enjoyed, I'd probably give it a try as a fan of AVGN.
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Oct 7, 2013 19:15
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Deofuta posted:Here is a first look at it by TotalBiscuit. In short, he finds it reiterative as a challenging platformer, but chock full of insider jokes and references that fans of AVGN will find it a treat. From what I saw of it, I found the judicious use of checkpoints to be a good way to balance out the more difficult platform elements. If it was a genre I enjoyed, I'd probably give it a try as a fan of AVGN.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:55
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Pirate Jenny posted:No, it went on way too long, honestly to the point of being uncomfortable. It went on. And on. And on. And the whole "this feels real to me" bit just felt like turning a blind eye to the super male-gazeyness of the film. Which it was, oh man it was. I really didn't like how Venn's segue undermined Kyle's (much more context-oriented and, well, better) point. Yeah, I really do think that segment backfired. It seemed like it would alienate more LGBT people than it would speak to (I certainly had a knee jerk "erghh" reaction to it), as well as almost undermining the right for LGBT people and allies and others to feel upset at the movie for being bad/lame/male gaze-y/exploitative - which is precisely the opposite of what Kyle and Venn clearly intended. (I know right is the wrong word, of course I still have the right to think the movie looks lame, but I can't think of a better word at this stage.) If you cut out Venn's segment, it would have worked fine on its own, particularly as Kyle already acknowledged the point that he wasn't LGBT, and LGBT people, particularly LGBT women might have different views and reactions to the film - but he still had an opinion which he'd backed up with critical thinking and research - ie, an informed opinion that was perfectly reasonable. You'd think Venn had come in to moderate a blanket, stupid statement, like "THIS MOVIE SUCKS!" "Well, no, it doesn't completely suck because "_" Again, the short version is that I'd reiterate that I thought that segment was unnecessary, and only served to undermine what Kyle had already said. I know why Kyle included Venn, but I don't think it worked. (Oh, and please let me know if I ever do something similar in one of my videos.)
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Oct 8, 2013 01:59
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Ema Nymton posted:
He raises a ton of good points and you sound unusually angry that he didn't like the mediocre retro platformer based on an internet personality. I've heard tons of people call it mediocre. Even as an AVGN fan that Game Over screen is dumb as hell and looks like it gets old fast. For the record ProJared is really good too.
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Oct 8, 2013 02:51
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Ema Nymton posted:I played AVGN Adventures a lot this weekend, and had a good time doing it. I don't understand your hostility. Either in regards to anyone daring criticizing the game, or your seeming grudge against ProJared. He didn't like a game you did, so what? And for the record, he's one of the better straight game reviewers out there. He's always pretty fair and balanced. His longer, whole game ones are good stuff too. Not sure how one could watch him suffer through the Hydile trilogy and not get a kick. Also enjoyed the crap out of his Nuzlocke playthrough of Pokemon Fire Red.
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Oct 8, 2013 04:22
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