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Keiya posted:Sadly not as influential as whatever gave us regenerating health and cover buttons. That would be Halo and Gears of War. (Someone will probably point out that they did not *invent* these things, but they sure as hell popularized them.)
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Oct 7, 2013 06:10
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FirstPersonShitter posted:DAIKATANA EPISODE 2: DEATH TAKES A DISC TO THE FACE  I'm laughing my rear end off. Can't wait till the next one.  poptart_fairy posted:Man, I forgot how much of a loving psychopath Doom 64 turned the Doomguy into. Though it's just flavour text the manual talks about how therapy and doctors couldn't help his mental state after the events of the first game, and intro write-ups for secret levels and act breaks start implying he's actively enjoying the slaughter and the way demons are freaking out because holy gently caress this guy is murdering everyone and smiling all the while. Rip and tear.  Its also kinda the feel of the games too. Doom 3 or other shooter games you're like fighting for survival, scared shitless even, but in Doom 1 & 2, you're the monster. You're tearing through the armies level by level and nothing can stop your bloodlust. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 06:19
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Humerus posted:I never got to play the Star Trek Elite Force games back in the day, and I was thinking of getting a copy (of the first one since the second seems to be >$40 everywhere?). Only thing is that it's a Windows 98/2000 game and I feel like there's usually a lot of compatibility problems with games from that era. Is getting it to run on W7 going to be a headache or will I be able to run in compatibility mode and enjoy my turn of the century FPS? I was also able to play through American McGee's Alice and Heavy Metal FAKK2 with no problems. They're all based on the Quake 3 engine, so I guess chalk it up to John Carmack's wizardry. RiffRaff1138 fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 06:23
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The problem with games like Gears of War in particular is that the gameplay is just really slow and terrible, and I think it's more the enforced cover systems than the regenerating health. Regeneration allows for each individual enemy in an FPS to be more aggressive and deadly, with harder-to-avoid attacks, because so long as you survive the encounter, you're more or less fine. But that's only really successful when you make the gameplay in general more aggressive and fast-paced. Each hit from a Doom Imp or Marathon Fighter matters more, but the enemies are trivial to fight and pose no real threat unless you're not paying attention or you're just put in a really bad spot. Project MSX, the Doom mod, has regenerating health, and it turns out the game is even more fast-paced and intense than before, because the weapons and enemies are all turned up to eleven. Gears is just lovely poo poo where the enemies have ten trillion hit points and each fight takes a loving year to finish because you're constantly forced into cover. The gameplay doesn't reward aggression.
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Oct 7, 2013 06:30
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Oh hey, the multiplayer for Duke 3D Megaton on Steam's finally out in beta. Open the properties for it in the Steam client and enrol into the public beta and it'll show up in the main menu. I just played a quick Dukematch on Stadium and while it's still a little rough (you can't hear other players' pain sounds for some reason so its hard to tell when you're hitting someone!) it seems to work fine.
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Oct 7, 2013 08:14
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here's hoping they'll allow the code to be ported to Eduke32 or at the very least someone will work out a way to pull the Eduke enhancements on top of Megaton edition
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Oct 7, 2013 09:15
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Cream_Filling posted:I remember seeing these in magazines back in the day. I like that they bothered to trademark "Suck It Down." I also really liked reading his "I would never say that, the ad agency made it up" response after reading about how much of a shittalking rear end in a top hat he was at any kind of competition.
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Oct 7, 2013 10:00
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Colon Semicolon posted:here's hoping they'll allow the code to be ported to Eduke32 or at the very least someone will work out a way to pull the Eduke enhancements on top of Megaton edition Speaking of Duke, here's a couple things that've crossed my wires lately:
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Oct 7, 2013 10:22
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The Kins posted:Oh hey, the multiplayer for Duke 3D Megaton on Steam's finally out in beta. Open the properties for it in the Steam client and enrol into the public beta and it'll show up in the main menu. I just played a quick Dukematch on Stadium and while it's still a little rough (you can't hear other players' pain sounds for some reason so its hard to tell when you're hitting someone!) it seems to work fine. I had a bug yesterday on this where I couldn't connect to a match. I may give it a whirl later see if it works today. If not I may wait until it's fully released or patched.
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Oct 7, 2013 13:33
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RyokoTK posted:The problem with games like Gears of War in particular is that the gameplay is just really slow and terrible, and I think it's more the enforced cover systems than the regenerating health. Regeneration allows for each individual enemy in an FPS to be more aggressive and deadly, with harder-to-avoid attacks, because so long as you survive the encounter, you're more or less fine. But that's only really successful when you make the gameplay in general more aggressive and fast-paced. Each hit from a Doom Imp or Marathon Fighter matters more, but the enemies are trivial to fight and pose no real threat unless you're not paying attention or you're just put in a really bad spot. I remember hearing about Gears of War how in early versions of the game, the enemies were smart enough to flank you while you sat there behind cover, but then people got mad about getting outsmarted by enemies, so instead they changed it so the enemies just sit there and shoot at you as you pop out of cover and shoot them one at a time.
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Oct 7, 2013 14:17
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RiffRaff1138 posted:When I got my Windows 7 PC, one of the first games I played on it was Elite Force, just to see if it worked. It was completely fine. I don't think I even needed compatibility mode. Just to point out, I'm pretty sure I had issues the last time I tried to get it working; Like Elite Force 1 would work but not 2, or vice versa, something like that. so YMMV.
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Oct 7, 2013 15:07
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I was thinking about this and it's really rare that I actually notice the music in games as being particularly good. Most of the time it just fades into the background for me, so it really surprised me that Daikatana of all games had noticeably great music. The only other examples I can think of off the top my of my head are: Doom: duh UT99: this game had absolutely exceptional music which really defined the character and feel of so many of the levels. The music from Morpheus is permenantly etched into my brain, likewise the music from Coret. All the songs were driving and energetic but they had a huge variety that fit well into each level. Sadly imo the music got worse and worse as the series went on, with UT3 having some wretched dynamic music system. Painkiller: As well as being probably the only really top-notch old-school type shooter to be released since the early era, Painkiller was also notable for its awesome soundtrack. Most games released at the time had lovely generic electronic music or lovely generic orchestral music, whereas Painkiller settled for nothing less than the finest butt-metal money could buy.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:24
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The original Unreal's soundtrack is excellent as well. Chiller than Unreal Tournament but still really good.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:28
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I think UT3 has some nice songs like Quantum Velocity and Suborbital Gravitation v vThe Course and Foregone Destruction will always be my favorite Unreal series songs though.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:33
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When I think of UT 2004 I think of this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwJnSIahnPs I also remember the Necris levels having great music in UT3
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Oct 7, 2013 16:41
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How can we talk about FPS music and not include Goldeneye? The soundtrack was one of its best aspects.
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Oct 7, 2013 16:54
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Yeah UT99 has some fantastic music. Hard-thumping techno tracks that get you in the mood for fragging.  UT2004 has okay music but it's all forgettable orchestral junk. I dunno why games these days insist on using forgettable orchestral music, they really need to bring back that thumping techno music that was all the rage back in the 90s. Of course, they may just shove dubstep in there instead. 
wafflemoose fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 17:00
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RyokoTK posted:How can we talk about FPS music and not include Goldeneye? The soundtrack was one of its best aspects. Does Goldeneye really hold up that well? All I remember of it is four player deathmatch from when I was 12. Same for Perfect Dark. I assume it'll just feel lacking compared to games today because it created the foundation that all console FPSes are based off of.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:06
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I guess I'm alone in still kind of liking Goldeneye 64, even when I'm only playing it via emulation. The only complaint I have about it is that it's painfully "simple", like it feels like a really stripped-down version of the dev team's later TimeSplitters series. I played the hell out of Future Perfect, and going back to GoldenEye now is kind of hard. That, plus all of the other, better FPSes I've played since then. Hell, No One Lives Forever is almost as old by now and yet it's still a much better spy-movie-themed 3D FPS.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:19
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I still enjoy playing GoldenEye, but then again my favorite console is the N64 so I guess I'm really tolerant of games from that era. The TimeSplitters games have aged MUCH better of course.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:35
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Purple D. Link posted:I still enjoy playing GoldenEye, but then again my favorite console is the N64 so I guess I'm really tolerant of games from that era. That analog stick just really sucks.  Its hard to do FPS on N64 these days. We loved it so loving much back when we were kids, but... man. Thumbsticks are so much better.I never owned it as a kid, just played it a ton at friend's houses, but I did own Timesplitters so I'm bigger on those now. I still like Goldeneye, and its more playable on emulation at higher resolution and with a modern controller, but its pretty drat rough around the edges. Playing through Perfect Dark for the first time ever though and its pretty slick. 
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Oct 7, 2013 17:39
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Despite the bad framerates and sometimes cryptic objectives, Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are still a blast to play.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:49
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I remember playing a Half-Life 2 multiplayer mod that was supposed to be true to the original GoldenEye's rules and it was possibly the least fun thing ever. That game requires you to be in the room with three other people on some terrible old TV.
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Oct 7, 2013 17:58
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Yodzilla posted:I remember playing a Half-Life 2 multiplayer mod that was supposed to be true to the original GoldenEye's rules and it was possibly the least fun thing ever. That game requires you to be in the room with three other people on some terrible old TV. Goldeneye Source? I think a lot of the magic that Goldeneye had come from it being new. Console FPSes blew before Goldeneye (Yes I'm including Turok in there*). Goldeneye forged a path that games are still following almost 15 years later. *I fully admit that Turok 2 fixed a lot of my issues with the first Turok.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:03
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Goldeneye doesn't hold up because of the hardware, I think. If they would rerelease it on like XBLA with a smooth and consistent framerate and modernized controls, I think it'd still be a fun game, albeit a primitive one. But after being spoiled with a generation of decent-to-good console FPSes with good controllers and stuff, going back to the N64 to play a shooter is really tough.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:18
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RyokoTK posted:Goldeneye doesn't hold up because of the hardware, I think. If they would rerelease it on like XBLA with a smooth and consistent framerate and modernized controls, I think it'd still be a fun game, albeit a primitive one. The Perfect Dark XBLA re-release proves this. The variety of objectives (especially on the higher difficulties) still gives it a very distinct feel, and adds a lot of replay value. It's so nice to see it running at 60fps and high-res. The N64 was a console that got pushed far too hard by almost every game on it.
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Oct 7, 2013 18:23
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Bouchacha posted:I remember back in the day how much *gushing* the PC Gamer staff over Star Trek Elite Force. I never understood why after playing a demo. Was there merit to the infatuation? It was a Star Trek game that wasn't poo poo. At the time it was a novelty. Still is, come to that. I liked Elite Force, personally, it seemed to do Voyager a lot better than Voyager did, even if (or perhaps because) the plot was just a paper thin excuse to pit you against as many iconic Star Trek enemies as they could fit in. And some of the poo poo ones from Voyager.
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Oct 7, 2013 19:06
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Elite Force was surprisingly good, and I say that as someone who tried it last year. Up to, and including F.E.A.R., Monolith made some really good games. EF2 wasn't made by Monolith, and wasn't nearly as good. I remember Elite Force actually had a very active multiplayer community back in the day as well.
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Oct 7, 2013 19:41
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Elite Force was surprisingly good, and I say that as someone who tried it last year. Up to, and including F.E.A.R., Monolith made some really good games. EF2 wasn't made by Monolith, and wasn't nearly as good. Elite Force was made by Raven, actually.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:00
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a retard posted:Elite Force was made by Raven, actually. The hazard team is also mostly named for the leads and seniors at the time.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:03
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 I was playing the NOLF games at the same time as I was doing EF, so, yeah, whoops.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:05
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RyokoTK posted:The problem with games like Gears of War in particular is that the gameplay is just really slow and terrible, and I think it's more the enforced cover systems than the regenerating health. Regeneration allows for each individual enemy in an FPS to be more aggressive and deadly, with harder-to-avoid attacks, because so long as you survive the encounter, you're more or less fine. But that's only really successful when you make the gameplay in general more aggressive and fast-paced. Each hit from a Doom Imp or Marathon Fighter matters more, but the enemies are trivial to fight and pose no real threat unless you're not paying attention or you're just put in a really bad spot. Cream_Filling posted:I remember hearing about Gears of War how in early versions of the game, the enemies were smart enough to flank you while you sat there behind cover, but then people got mad about getting outsmarted by enemies, so instead they changed it so the enemies just sit there and shoot at you as you pop out of cover and shoot them one at a time. If I think of a single scenario when somebody mentions "Gears of War", it's the player impotently mag-dumping an assault rifle into an enemy as it bounds to cover, completely oblivious. If I think of a second scenario, it's the player crouching behind waist-high cover and endlessly exchanging fire with enemies across a series of jersey barriers; a third, the player regularly hiding until the GoW symbol goes away. The combination of cover, lame weapons, and spongey enemies created a deadly-slow gameplay trifecta and reduced the strategy to "plod along, occasionally shoot the 10% of an enemy that is perpetually exposed". Project MSX is a great example of a recharging health system that doesn't emphasize constantly hiding behind things. Cover still plays a role, but the enemies are fast and aggressive (keeping the player moving), the weapons are powerful (encouraging proactive strategies), and the speed is pretty heinous. If the author got one thing right in particular, it's the feel of the weapons. Man, they're great. They're punchy, well-animated, and the sound effects are crisp. Who needs to hide behind cover when you're wielding some destructive poo poo?
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Oct 7, 2013 20:13
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I can also call up a game that uses the medikit system poorly, and that's Far Cry 1. There's medikits, and there's armor, standard stuff. Only, enemies do absolutely massive amounts of damage, and since all the humans have guns, there's no way to avoid taking damage if you get caught out. And all the Trigens have a massive amount of health so it's very difficult to not take damage against them. The basic Trigen, the first one you meet in the game, can kill you in two hits. Each hit takes away like 70% of your HP. To "balance" that, there's health and armor absolutely loving everywhere. It doesn't help the game whatsoever. Far Cry was an absolutely excellent game when fighting humans, because most of the set pieces allowed you to approach from many directions and use a lot of different strategies to evade enemies or eliminate them before you engage them properly. I just think that, once you actually got to the big engagements, having regenerating health would have been more appropriate to the pseudo-stealth and evasion mechanics of the game, rather than finding two full-heal medikits in each of the ten buildings in the base you're assailing. The Trigens just loving sucked, and if I can think of anything to go in the PYF Things Dragging this Game Down, it would be the awful Trigens in Far Cry.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:24
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Every time Crytek thinks of trying the third act new villain thing, someone should just shoot it down immediately. Trigens, the original crysis aliens, the revamped crysis aliens, ugh
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Oct 7, 2013 20:29
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How come there hasn't been a new NOLF game? They were pretty excellent and IIRC quite successful as well.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:51
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Laputanmachine posted:How come there hasn't been a new NOLF game? They were pretty excellent and IIRC quite successful as well. Activision owns the rights.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:51
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:Activision owns the rights.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:55
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:If I think of a single scenario when somebody mentions "Gears of War", it's the player impotently mag-dumping an assault rifle into an enemy as it bounds to cover, completely oblivious. If I think of a second scenario, it's the player crouching behind waist-high cover and endlessly exchanging fire with enemies across a series of jersey barriers; a third, the player regularly hiding until the GoW symbol goes away. The combination of cover, lame weapons, and spongey enemies created a deadly-slow gameplay trifecta and reduced the strategy to "plod along, occasionally shoot the 10% of an enemy that is perpetually exposed". The sad thing is that if they had used the slow pace and cover system to make a freeform Full Spectrum Warrior style tactical FPS all about pinning and flanking enemies in cover, it would have been kind of awesome.
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Oct 7, 2013 20:59
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The Kins posted:They seem pretty sure that they don't. Otherwise they likely would have put it on Steam or GOG by now. Ohh, that was the thing I was going to cite because I thought Dan said Activision did have it. I assume its either Monolith or WB then.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:00
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Does that mean that anybody could hypothetically just step up and make a No One Lives Forever remake or HD port or something and nobody could make a Cease & Desist? If nobody is aware if they own the rights or not, I'd imagine that nobody would have legal recourse to do anything about a fan-made game. I mean, for that matter somebody could make a fan game and then profit off of it, at least until the rights are sorted out and somebody lays claim to the franchise.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:01
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