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a kitten posted:And the artist really loves him some Shirow doesn't he? Where's the fuchikomas I wonder. Ghost In The Shell's arrival and popularity in the United States came after Long worked for Palladium. I believe he left right when it hit big, so it's just Appleseed and Dominion Tank Police at this point. BTW, more evidence to add to the prosecution... Alien Rope Burn posted:Triax X-821 Landcrab  From the first few pages of Appleseed Book 3. It's a stretch, but not that far.
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Oct 13, 2013 05:30
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Young Freud posted:Ghost In The Shell's arrival and popularity in the United States came after Long worked for Palladium. I believe he left right when it hit big, so it's just Appleseed and Dominion Tank Police at this point. Yeah. I think the last Rifts book to have Long's art (mostly just the cover) is Rifts World Book Nine: South America 2, which came out before Ghost in the Shell. Young Freud posted:BTW, more evidence to add to the prosecution... Ha, nice catch. I should have just cover-to-covered my volumes of Appleseed before writing this up, but for some reason didn't think to.
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Oct 13, 2013 05:50
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Nope. Supposedly they're shooting for a December ship date, but I'd be impressed if they actually made it. ...December 2015, that is.
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Oct 13, 2013 05:53
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FMguru posted:I'd say they have a greater than 50% chance of making their ship date of December. Palladium isn't actually doing the grunt work on that one, so it's conceivable, but they still have to do final approval on the rulebook now, so...
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Oct 13, 2013 06:03
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Alien Rope Burn posted:It's easier to type "Robotech". Also, that's what Palladium had the rights to, so Kevin Long ended up doing a lot of Macross and other Robotech-licensed designs for Palladium before doing work on Rifts. In fact, if you do a Google image search for "veritech", the first piece of art that comes up is a Kevin Long piece. A sure sign of getting old is how the past all kind of compresses together, I had completely forgotten how I had a passing familiarity with Appleseed, Black Magic, and Tank Police stuff by around '92 and didn't pick up (if it was even available at all) the GitS comic until the movie was released in '95 or '96. I remember borrowing the old Paladium Robotech rule book from an acquaintance, we never actually got around to playing it though. I just wanted to look through it because I loved the hell out of Robotech. Didn't Rifts have rules for Robotech mecha? I swear there were conversion that and TMNT as well. I specifically remember rules about how the Protoculture plant wouldn't grow near the ley-lines that Rifts Earth is so full of, so the super agile Veritechs would eventually run out of juice and have to be converted to nuclear or something and lose a bunch of their awesomeness.
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Oct 13, 2013 06:20
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a kitten posted:Didn't Rifts have rules for Robotech mecha? I swear there were conversion that and TMNT as well. I specifically remember rules about how the Protoculture plant wouldn't grow near the ley-lines that Rifts Earth is so full of, so the super agile Veritechs would eventually run out of juice and have to be converted to nuclear or something and lose a bunch of their awesomeness. From the Rifts Conversion Book writeup done by occamsnailfile and I:  Alien Rope Burn posted:Robotech Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Oct 13, 2013 |
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Oct 13, 2013 06:37
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I think the first generation stuff fared best, power wise-- the original Veritechs were loaded with protoculture, because they had no idea how it worked, only that it did. Destroids were fusion powered, so they were doable too. Mind you, a Macross-era Veritech was about as tough as a SAMAS. I'm pretty sure the Palladium write-ups for Southern Cross called their mecha out as being fusion driven too, so their biggest concern is the dorkiness of their designs. Invid Invasion/Sentinels era Veritechs were pretty hosed, though. They were RIFTS tough in general, and the iconic Cyclone could probably take a SAMAS by itself (thanks to an integral automatic dodge), but their primary armament was missiles and they ran on protoculture pods the size of a six pack that had an operating lifespan rated in months. Cyclones could drive on gas, but without protoculture they were virtually useless as wearable armor. Our group's first foray into RIFTS were as transplants from one of... I'm not sure how many Invid Invasion campaigns, so we made ourselves very familiar with the pitfalls and processes of adapting the gear to that setting. I always figured that the Flower of Life's aversion to ley lines had something to do with both being strongly linked to psychic phenomena, though that was a bigger thing in the novels than the TV show.
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Oct 13, 2013 07:56
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If I were in hell and had to run Robotech or Macross in a Rifts crossover power sources are one of the first things I'd remove as a headache (travel through the rift opened a permanent rift from a dimension made entirely of protoculture into your gas tank or something) unless you want to antagonize your players. Make them stop to get food and empty the pee bottles or something if you need to break up a trip. That or plan the campaign such that it would end before anyone ran out of gas.
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Oct 13, 2013 08:28
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Just base it on Macross instead, those just run on regular sci-fi stuff (and pop music). No weird plant-based fuel source necessary.
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Oct 13, 2013 08:40
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 Rifts World Book Five: Triax and the NGR Part 10: "Without exception, the subject develops a 'super hero' complex, i.e. he immediately enjoys and craves the superhuman power and abilities he possesses when in the robot body." Before we get to new classes - new skills! New Skills
Military O.C.C.s The NGR Army It emphasizes - at length - that these miltary O.C.C.s can be taken by retired or discharged members of the military, and they get all the same skills, but none of the equipment. Also, they require 25% more XP to level, but don't have to take orders. Enlisted personnel have none of those penalities, but have to follow orders. Oh, and 60% of German citizens have military occupations or combat experience because of the ongoing war. Er... if it was "had military occupations" that'd be different, but as it is it makes me wonder how their economy is doing... Infantry Soldier O.C.C. This is the NGR equivalent of the Coalition Grunt. It notes that 50% of them are drawn from the human refugees, that 75% of refugees become soldiers, and that 50% of refugees turned soldiers die in combat. Note to refugees: your odds may be better staying at home in Poland or Hungary, FYI. They get a slightly broader skill base and marginally better skill bonuses (also, Literacy), but actually get much fewer skills overall. This is odd, since the NGR citizenry is supposed to be more educated, but all they really have to show for it literacy; a Coalition Grunt actually gets better combat training as well as training in giant robot combat. Communications Officer O.C.C. I know, you may seem excited by wanting to play a giant robot pilot or a cyborg soldier, but why not play the guy who handles the phone? What about him? Well, Rifts has you covered, where you can play a mighty German warrior of telecommunications! Oh, and since it requires an I.Q. of 9, only about 62% of PCs will qualify to be a phone soldier. To be fair, if you want to be a hacker or cryptographer, this supports it very well. You don't get much range otherwise, but it's really not that much different from the infantry save for the change in focus from vehicle driving to radio wrangling. You get some basic cybernetics for linking into computers, otherwise. This class is basically an update of the old Robotech Communications Officer O.C.C. - which is to say it's basically the class for people looking to play Lisa Hayes.  Medic/Medical Officer O.C.c. Yes, the title uses both words. Anyway, this is "roughly equivalent to the Body Fixer O.C.C." except for the military training. It notes most are familiar with cybernetic implants, bio-wizard symbiotes (huh? how?), but not with bionics, and they have a penalty with bionics or particularly alien technology. The book and goes on how traumatized and hardened they become, and apparently 30% become indifferent to the suffering of others, and... 5% apparently turn to torturing or experimenting on D-Bees. Yeah. I'm going to say I don't find those statistics particularly convincing. Apparently when some retire they become "rogue doctors" (aka body fixers), who offer their services to anybody, including mutants and D-Bees. Rogue doctors aren't penalized as mentioned at the start of the class section because... um... because. They get to be notably more skilled than Soldiers, but their attribute requirements mean you can only roll one up about 6% of the time. They also get fancy medical equipment and minor cybernetics, but practically one of the new equipment. NGR Armored Division Cyborg Soldier O.C.C.  "Tiny arms are cool, right?" Apparently 18% of the NGR army are full conversion cyborgs, 15% are partial conversion, and 60% have cybernetics of some sort. That means... only 7% don't have some machine in them. (And yet, the Infantry class doesn't get any cybernetics to start, so how does that work...?) The Cyborg Soldier gets much better skill bonuses and a much more focused skill package than the old Coalition Borg, but the Coalition Borg got a lot more choice on the skills selected, oddly. They can choose any of the cyborg types listed earlier, of course. Also, a Cyborg Soldier gets Swimming and S.C.U.B.A., as if a half-ton human isn't going to sink like a loving rock. Oh, and unlike earlier cyborg classes, this requires a Mental Endurance of 15, so only 9% of characters rolled can choose this class. Field Mechanic O.C.C. A mechanic for robots, power armor, vehicles and cyborgs. Much like the Communications Officer, only with electrical and mechanical skills instead of communications skills, a larger skill package, and very few actual skill choices. They get some minor cybernetics, not too much else to say, though sometimes they world in the field to analyze or sabotage enemy armor. The gargoyles don't have much of that, so I imagine largely they stay at base after all. Power Armor Commando O.C.C. Mostly this portrays T-31 Super Trooper pilots, but can use other power armor by GM call. There are really, really strict attribute requirements, so less than 1% of characters rolled can choose this class.  They get a really broad skill package including robot combat skills, but very few skill choices, along with some basic cybernetics. Though they get better skill bonuses, the old Coalition Elite RPA O.C.C. actually gets more skills than them.Robot Combat Pilot O.C.C.  "A mission? No, I'm wearing this to the club." What it says on the tin; the important part is that you get all the X-2000 Dyna-Max by default. And you have a 1 in 40 chance of rolling one up! Pretty much like the Power Armor Commando, only with more pilot and less commando. They get some basic cybernetics once again, of course. Robot Soldier Optional O.C.C. In any case, Triax has experimented with putting humans into robot bodies. Considering they have advanced cyborg technology, one would think that wouldn't be so hard. Once again, it reiterates you can't play a non-sentient robot. (But I was ready to get my BEEP BOOP on...) Like the CAN Republic in Next up is using Mind Over Matter implants to do a literal mind transfer into a robot. It goes on about all the problems regarding leaving your body in a coma and its vulnerability, but I say, gently caress it, look at your new shiny robot body. It also gives new rules where if you die while in your robot body, you get dumped into the astral plane and you have two hours to find your human body before you die. Of course, even if you find your body, there's a fifty-fifty chance of random insanity, and your Mental Endurance doesn't figure in. Speaking of your Mental Endurance not being worth diddly-poo poo, every person who does the mind-transfer more than once develops a "super hero complex" where they become addicted to being a robot. This includes: Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:Wants to be in the robot 80% of his waking hours. Only regrets/losses are the pleasures of eating/tasting food and drinks, sexual contact, and general human contact/touch. When acting as a human and being out of your robot body, you get horrendous penalities on combat and skill rolls, a 40% chance of becoming a drunkie or junkie, and 1d6 phobias or acute paranoia. Oh, and you become a megalomaniac sociopath. A small price to pay for having mini-missiles from the nipples, perhaps. The last option for robot PCs in this book is an procedure where the NGR puts your brain in a robot, which gives a lot of advantage over dumb robot AIs, but also makes them vulnerable to psionic attacks and the like. Apparently this only includes "0.02%" of NGR soldiers. Unlike direct transfer, there's zero insanity, the robot soldier gets extra combat bonuses and bonuses against mental attacks. Robot soldiers also can get extra programmed skills at a set, very low percentile (since they're basically doing the equivalent of reading a how-to). The big drawback is that if you had another O.C.C. prior to becoming a robot soldier, your skills are frozen, you start again at 0 XP, and none of your old skills increase until you relearn your old level all over again. This is based off the old Robotech multiclassing rules, and it's just as terrible in 1994 as it was in 1986.  NGR Intelligence Division Intelligence Officer O.C.C. Espionage Agent/Spy Spy guys you have an 8% chance of playing. They're yet another military specialist class like the Communications Officer or Field Mechanic, only this time specialized in Espionage and Rogue skills. They get a solid amount of cybernetics to help them with their spying, and that's about all. The funny thing is that the NGR doesn't have many human foes to spy on, but I suppose they could be watching for dissidents. Congratulations: you're now the secret police, I guess? Intelligence Commando O.C.C. Guerilla Warfare & Wilderness Scout These are more wilderness scouts with an NGR miltary flavor; like the Intelligence Officer, only with more of wilderness and sneaky edge. They're supposed to be "monster hunters", but given that most monsters seem to be balanced for fighting giant robots, taking on a gargoyle with a laser rifle and grenades - even with surprise or traps - seems the height of stupidity. Police O.C.C. The NGR Law Enforcement Officer You're a cop... in power armor! Like in E-SWAT. It points out most are nice folks, even to D-Bees, but there is a 25% minority that tend to throw D-Bees up against the wall or curb or whatever. And 8% are "truly evil and/or corrupt" and "sell info to crooks, even when it hurts a fellow police officers". Ugh, that's a horrible series of leaks you've got going there, NGR cops. Anyway it notes most law enforcement is "very similar to the 20th century", except for criminals that fall under military jurisdiction, which mainly consists of supernatural monsters and their collaborators, as well as more unfortunate D-Bees. They have no rights and can get tortured, interrogated, and executed as the military feels necessary. The police tend to give most monsters one warning or no warnings before shooting to kill. It notes that justice outside the NGR, on the other hand, tends to be brutal mob rule kinda stuff. The attributes requirements are low, so a whopping 52% of characters can become a cop. They have a focus on cop vehicles, streetwise, and otherwise a general outlay of skills. They get no cybernetics, but do get to start with an X-60 Flanker. And that's about all! And that's all for the NGR O.C.C. list. To prove how ridiculous the attribute requirements end up, I rolled up ten characters to see what NGR classes they qualified for.
As a break before the next comic, here's some bonus comparisons, largely pointed out by various readers! Questions raised!    On the left: the KM-700 (Newton Ewell), on the right: The Hound (Venus Wars).   On the left: the Glitter Boy, on the right: Full Armor ZZ Gundam (Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ)   On the left: Coalition SAMAS, on the right: MADOX-01 (Metal Skin Panic).   On the left, Boxed Nightmares, on the right: Fluffy (Creepshow). Next: Gypsies and Juice.
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Oct 13, 2013 10:02
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Alien Rope Burn posted:
Rifts! Because any semblance of balance is for pussies!
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Oct 13, 2013 16:34
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Midjack posted:If I were in hell and had to run Robotech or Macross in a Rifts crossover power sources are one of the first things I'd remove as a headache (travel through the rift opened a permanent rift from a dimension made entirely of protoculture into your gas tank or something) unless you want to antagonize your players. Make them stop to get food and empty the pee bottles or something if you need to break up a trip. One of our other players was on a Robotech discussion mailing list and, before he got booted for innocently sparking discussion of the Good Times virus, got some information that helped him convince the GM that the whole 'protoculture link' and 'thinking cap' jazz was something Macek cooked up for the novelizations. It made our conversion to portable nukes a lot easier. The RDF-era characters were still kind of screwed skill-wise, but that was what (oh god) multiclassing was for.
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Oct 13, 2013 16:59
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Bieeardo posted:One of our other players was on a Robotech discussion mailing list and, before he got booted for innocently sparking discussion of the Good Times virus, got some information that helped him convince the GM that the whole 'protoculture link' and 'thinking cap' jazz was something Macek cooked up for the novelizations. It made our conversion to portable nukes a lot easier. Urge to sperg...rising. But, yeah. Protoculture as a fuel source and 'thinking caps' are completely unique to Robotech and are just things to help tie the 3 very different and unrelated series together as a somewhat unified whole. Hell Southern Cross doesn't even take place on Earth originally, they had to edit a second moon out of the sky. If you want to run Robotech specifically I figure you've got to have Space Flower powered mecha, but if you just want to fast, transformable jet robots and a character who looks like Rick/Hikaru there's no particular reason to.
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Oct 13, 2013 17:18
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AccidentalHipster posted:Rifts! Because any semblance of balance is for pussies! Kevin Siembieda posted:Game balance is ALWAYS a concern and a key aspect of every rule, power, weapon and character. It has to be. A related example of a straw man argument: "I'd like for all the classes to be relatively balanced options." "Well then there would be no challenge!"
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Oct 13, 2013 18:48
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*rolls Eyeball a Fella* Yep, just as I thought: full of poo poo.
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Oct 13, 2013 18:54
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How does Kevin Siembieda call Rifts a "storytelling game" with a straight face?
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Oct 13, 2013 20:14
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Hey, Ettin, do you mind if I cover the "Racial Insecurities" mini-supplement for Cthulhutech, or is that line still your horrible rape-baby?
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Oct 14, 2013 05:11
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You know, funny story, I was talking to Amercha about how our Legend's playtest went. And, wow, did we mess it up. Apparently, the GM house ruled the hell out of the game. Which is, I probably don't have to say, horrible for playtesting. Apparently, Amercha only found this out when he submitted his playtesting feedback. So, yeah, we kind of screwed up that playtest. Anyway, without further ado, let's return to... Tell Me A Legend of Murderers and Hobos Chapter 2: That Basics The chapter starts out going over the standard d20 fair. The core mechanic is what you expect (1d20 + modifiers), you can take 10 and 20 using the standard rules, and a blurb on attributes and modifiers. An interesting thing is that the game brings up percentile dice which is funny since we never had to use those during our entire playtest. Then again, as said prior, the GM houseruled the hell out of that game so, now, I don't know if any of my assumptions on this title are true. Modifers are typed, thankfully. Modifiers from the same type or from the same source do not stack (take the best bonus or worst penalty). Of course, this is still standard d20 affair and the types are what you expect (Ability, Circumstance, Feat, Item, Racial, Size, and Untyped). The only different ones are Deflection and Fury. Deflection is a boost to AC. Fury, on the other hand, is interesting as it is the first time tracks are mentioned. This will be further explained as we reach the class chapter. For now, just know that Fury bonuses come from strong emotions, are given by tracks, stack with Fury bonuses from the same track, but not with Fury bonuses from different tracks. After this, we get into Ability scores. Unsurprisingly, the game uses the standard d20 6 (Str, Con, Dex, Wis, Int, Cha). However, there is a twist: Key Offensive Modifier and Key Defensive Modifier. KOM and KDM come from a player's class (sometimes from a particular Track or Race). KOM is used to calculate a character's ability to attack and adds to damage rolls for weapon damage. KDM is used to calculate HP and Armor Class. Key modifiers is an interesting idea. I mean, it simplifies character building since you know to put your highest value in those two attributes and have a functional character. On the other hand, it can sometimes make one feel like they only have two attributes. Though, I suppose the Skill system, which we will get to later, does make use of the other attributes even if most of your character doesn't. After KOM and KDM, Spellcasting Ability modifier is introduced. When one takes a spellcasting track -- tracks have still not been explained -- they receive a SAM from that track. This modifier is used for DCs for their spells and determines if the character gets more spells than the default. In this same section, we learn Legend uses a variant of D&D's vancian magic. Instead of per day, Legend's magic is done per scene. It is worth noting that the game does not mention what a Scene is. It also appears that spells only go up 7 levels...err circles. This, in my opinion, is for the best. 9 levels of spells is too much. That said, 5 is a better number of levels than 7. Or circles. Or whatever. The book then explains what each attribute represents. Most of this is fairly standard from 3.5, however, Constitution gives Damage Reduction equal to half one's Con mod (if positive) instead of adding to one's HP and Wisdom adds to something called the Awareness Defense. The reason I sound a bit confused by the latter is because our DM never used this so I don't actually know what this is. After looking over Legend's character sheet, I noticed there were a few other defenses (Diplomacy,Bluff, Intimidate, and Perception). While we haven't got an official explanation for them yet, I believe they are a DC that opponents have to pass when trying to use skills on a character. Our DM used opposed rolls. Somehow, I feel this is just another house rule he made...Should I make a counter for the number of ways we messed up playtesting this game? Afterwards, we get into d20's standard secondary statistics: Health points, Armor Class, Base Attack Bonus, and Saving Throws. Interestingly enough, Awareness is brought up here and confirms my suspicion that it was a defense for skill rolls against player characters (in this case, it is a DC one has to pass to successfully sneak past a character). Another interesting thing is that BAB is added to one's AC which I don't remember being a factor in 3.5. It also appears saving Throws take the higher of two attributes modifiers: Str/Con for Fort, Dex/Int for Ref, or Wis/Cha for Will. Most of the formulas for secondary statistics has also been changed. Armor Class is now 10 + BAB + KDM, Health is now Class (Which classes offer either 8,10, or 12 per level) + KDM then that sum is multiplied by twice one's level, and Attack is 10 + BAB + KOM. The most interesting thing about this section is that Legend changed how the math for BABs worked.  As you can see, while the first additional attack goes up at a different rate, the next three additional attacks go up at the same rate as the first additional attack. Poor BAB's received a boost and another additional attack. 3.5 had each additional attack go up at a slower rate for a max of 20/15/10/5 on a good BAB and 10/5 for a poor BAB. Poor BABs in 3.5 only received a single additional attack. This seems a bit odd. I do remember this game having a bigger focus on track abilities (which we will get to later) and basic attacking than using spells. As such, boosting poor BABS might be necessary. Then, because you boosted poor BABs, you might have to boost good BABs just to make sure they're still good in comparison...I guess. I have to seem more math of the system to see if this works out. Considering BAB is also added to AC, I really have to wonder if this math works out as intended. Well, that is it for Chapter 2. None of this really has confirmed or denied if the Legend Developers lived up to their design goals. I will say that the lack of explanation for the other defenses is a bit off. Sure, they are on the character sheet and one can easily guess their use by name (Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, Perception), but they should be mentioned. Or, I should say, they should be mentioned in the same chapter as awareness. I know I said I'd get into character creation, but its a bit late so I'm going to save that for later. As such... Next Time: Character Creation or Yes, you can play a Dragon Barbarian Power Ranger Covok fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 05:11
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AmiYumi posted:Hey, Ettin, do you mind if I cover the "Racial Insecurities" mini-supplement for Cthulhutech, or is that line still your horrible rape-baby? You might want to message him instead, I think he's pretty behind on this thread.
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Oct 14, 2013 05:14
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Or ask in the Gen Chat thread. He was making some noises about Fatal and Friends in there.
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Oct 14, 2013 05:21
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Covok posted:
Are you glossing over Str and Dex's built in bennies beyond skills and saving throws or are those not in you version? Because in my version, Strength always adds half of its bonus to damage regardless of weapon and stacks KOM (making Str based KOM really beefy) and Dexterity mod is your initiative like usual. This makes me curious if we're both reading off of the same version. Covok posted:Should I make a counter for the number of ways we messed up playtesting this game? Go for it, I wanna see how deep this rabbit hole goes.
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Oct 14, 2013 06:08
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Yeah, Covok, you probably still have the old version. Oh, and do you want me to link the... "redacted" tracks? They removed the links from their site, but they didn't remove the files.
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Oct 14, 2013 06:14
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I'm not sure which makes my head hurt more: That BAB table, or adding a passel of what amount to... new armor classes for a fistful of new attack vectors. I thought that was obnoxious in Earthdawn, and I'm no more a fan of it now. CON looks like a cherry on top, if it adds both (typed?) damage reduction and its usual effects. Edit: I'm looking specifically at the first BAB table, specifically where it drops off between the first and second attack, and stops dropping from there. That says to me that they're expecting a lot of attacks to land at high level, which probably indicates a shitload of hit points floating around too. On top of that, having a core stat grant damage reduction makes combat math more annoying and drags things out further by nickel and dime's worth. It's not conducive to anything 'legendary', it's just the same overcomplicated hacks that fifteen year olds have been submitting their touchstone edition of D&D to since the hobby began. Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 06:17
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What usual effect? Remember KDM now determines your hit points, not CON unless your CON is your KDM.
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Oct 14, 2013 06:27
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Bieeardo posted:I'm not sure which makes my head hurt more: That BAB table, or adding a passel of what amount to... new armor classes for a fistful of new attack vectors. I thought that was obnoxious in Earthdawn, and I'm no more a fan of it now. Personally, I think the new BAB table and defenses are a nice simplification compared to how 3.5 handled things. And in my version (which I THINK is the newest), Con doesn't inherently determine HP, your Key Defensive Mod does. So having Con as a KDM can make you pretty tough. EDIT: Ninja'd.
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Oct 14, 2013 06:29
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Don't forget that 3.x had Good, Medium, and Poor BAB progressions, while Legend's Poor appears to be 3.x's Medium and it ditched Poor entirely.
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Oct 14, 2013 09:06
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Having iterative attacks feels like a warning sign. There are very good reasons D&D 3.5 derivatives like D&D 4e or Fantasy Craft threw them out. The math on them has always ben horrible and not well thought-out, forcing fighter-types to boost their attack bonus in whatever degenerate means they can to make those extra attacks actually worthwhile at higher levels.
Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 11:46
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AccidentalHipster posted:Are you glossing over Str and Dex's built in bennies beyond skills and saving throws or are those not in you version? Because in my version, Strength always adds half of its bonus to damage regardless of weapon and stacks KOM (making Str based KOM really beefy) and Dexterity mod is your initiative like usual. This makes me curious if we're both reading off of the same version. Oh, I know. The thing is that str adding to damage and Dex being your initiative is the same as it was in 3.5 so I just didn't mention it. I was just mentioning what was different from 3.5. That is what I meant by "this is fairly standard, however." As in, "most of this is the same as it was in 3.5 except for the following:" Maybe I should make this more clear. Edit: That said, I probably should have mentioned how the formula for some of the secondary statistics worked in greater detail. Glossing over some of them does make their KM mechanic seem unimportant. Bieeardo posted:CON looks like a cherry on top, if it adds both (typed?) damage reduction and its usual effects. Yeah, that was my bad for not clarifying that. Con does DR instead of adding to HP in Legend. KDM adds to HP instead. Amechra posted:Oh, and do you want me to link the... "redacted" tracks? They removed the links from their site, but they didn't remove the files. I should mention; I decided to edit in the details I should have included the first time into the last update. Covok fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 12:44
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Rifts World Book Five: Triax and the NGR Part 11: "It's as if the hundreds of gypsy clans are all part of a giant fraternity and all the members of the fraternity regard each other as brothers to be treated with respect and kindness." Non-Military O.C.C.s Euro-Juicer O.C.C. These are built like normal juicers, and though most people avoid juicing, a significant part of the NGR population (14%) tries it out. Most of this is through a slightly different technology known as JAEP (Juicer Augmentation Enhancement Program) or "Jape", and is basically a focused, limited version of the juicer technology known in the states, with several different versions. It can be used for three months safely, followed by three months of downtime before the JAEP program is renewed again. Basically, three months on, three months off. Trying to take more than one at a time causes a massive overdose including heart attacks, convulsions, brain damage - GM gets to select what level of fuckery to inflict. Taking street drugs, through, is just likely to have increased side effects from the drug. The big advantage is that any O.C.C. can use JAEP, presuming they're a nonaugmented human. JAEP users who don't do the downtime are likely to become addicts, which results in a reduced lifespan, but it takes decades for them to die instead of the 6-10 years normal juicers die in. In addition, they can successfully go clean if they kick the habit in under 10 years and stay clean for at least three months. We also get a table of JAEP side-effects, but it's not clear if/when these penalities are applied. We get four different programs:
gently caress, I could just quote this whole section, couldn't I? Okay: the first thing Siembieda establishes and that post-Rifts, gypsies aren't a race per se, but a culture, as only half of them are human; another 40% are D-Bees and 10% are supernatural monsters. Apparently, gypsies are now organized into a variety of clans that treat each other as part of some secret society, with clan colors (worn as bandannas or scarves) and a secret languages. No idea how supernatural monsters got in on the apparent gypsy biz. Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:Most civilized communities consider gypsies to be nothing but brigands, con artists, and thieves. Civilized and hard working people spit at the mention of gypsies and lament that they are nothing but thieves, too "lazy" and "shiftless" to work for a living, or to learn how to build things for themselves. The gypsies perpetuate this myth with their devil-may-care attitude, flip words and a total disregard for authority and power. If you ask a gypsy why he doesn't settle down an get "respectable" work, he or she will flash a charming smile, blow a kiss in the air, and say, "Oh, Cheri, I hate dirt under my fingernails," or "I find sweating so unattractive. Don't you?" or "I am too beautiful to ruin my skin in the sun or cripple my body with labor, don't you agree?" and similar retorts. So, you might think, certainly the author wouldn't go so far as to portray gypsies as a pack of heartless thieves? Well. Actually. Yes, it's not even the romanticized "misunderstood nomads" on display; these are packs of career criminals. It's justifed by romanticizing them as cunning thrillseekers and post-apocalypse survivors, but ultimately it's one of the most negative Romani stereotypes I've seen in gaming. Yes, you can argue that the Romani are not being depicted here, but it's still the Romani stereotype. It's like having slaves depicted as a ministrel show, then trying to defend by saying "well they're not necessarily black slaves". But why tell when I can just show? Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:The gypsies of Rifts Earth regard all other life forms as prey. Not prey in the hunt, kill, and eat sense, but in the hunt, trap and plunder sense. Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:The arrival of a gypsy caravan or even a lone individual can only mean trouble. When valuables disappear, the gypsy will be the first suspect (and is probably guilty). Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:Whatever one buys from gypsies, the buyer must beware. The item, whether it be jewelry, a weapon or a magic potion, may or may not be authentic. Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:These masterful con-artists also use every transaction and conversional to get information and size-up the person, his friend or town for plundering or other schemes that will work to the gypsies' favor. Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:Many are much more discrete so they will be welcomed the next time they visit. These gypsies will probably make most of their money from selling fortunes, healing remedies, magic potions, moonshone, trinkets and services like dancing, healing, and sexual favors. "Some gypsies are better in that they don't steal as often, and make up the difference in snake oil and prostitution." How grotesque. Oh, yes, and they have a secret language and secret symbols. Oh, and some of them are involved with vampires (particularly those from Romania), either as allies or victims. It notes that though gypsy O.C.C.s follow, gypsies are also often headhunters, juicers, vagabonds, wilderness scouts, witch (the kill puppies for Satan kind from Rifts Conversion Book), mystic, or any psychic class. However, they won't take up disciplined classes like scholars or wizards because gently caress education, I guess? Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:Remember, being a gypsy is a lifestyle not a racial factor. For gently caress's sake. Also it's should be pointed out right now it also directs us to the circus rules from Rifts World Book One: Vampire Kingdoms to build gypsy caravans as well. Which is rough, because even though I have been trying to scour that terrible chapter from my brain for quite some time. Finally, As an aside, I usually don't point out the horrendous grammar on display here, as it would just be exhausting to even try. But those quotes are getting me to cringe into my shoes, and my grammar is a mess as it is. Gypsy Thief O.C.C.  A people composed entirely of Gambits. "... a thug, cat-burglar, and con-man all rolled into one." As you can guess, thief, acrobatic, and entertainer skills. They actually get a few more skill choices than most NGR professions. So much for education! Also kind of redundant, because apparently all gypsies are thieves, right?  Rifts World Book Five: Triax & the NGR posted:Note: All gypsies are snappy and stylish dressers. Thieves tend towards black and dark blue colors withs splashes of golds and reds. They love leather. Gypsy Wizard Thief O.C.C.  The shiftiest wizard. Basically a ley line walker who's focused on thievery, and passed down through familial lines. However, their focus on stealing basically makes them lovely wizards. In any case, they get about half the ley line walker powers (they don't get line drifting, rejuvenation, or observation ball). However, despite the fact that it tries to emphasize them as lesser wizards, they get about eight more spells than ley line walkers do, for some inane reason, but do have moderately less P.P.E. and more in the way of skills. Gypsy Seer O.C.C.  Those hands. This is the gypsy version of the mystic, and why they're different is a mystery, but they get their magic out of nowhere and with no explanation. Yes, this means they naturally know how to read palms. Somehow. Instead of being able to open themselves to the supernatural, they get to read palms, which lets them gather a lot of information about a character and some very specific ESP sorta stuff (like whether or not the character is hunted). They get more psionics than the mystic, but they're fixed sensitive powers for the most part, and slightly fewer magic spells. They get roughly the same number of skills, but as with most classes in this book, more skills are fixed skills instead of choices like in the corebook. Oh, and only 10% of them are literate. gently caress education! Gypsy - The Gifted O.C.C.  Ambiguous. These are dedicated healers with a smattering of other psionics. They get to "Randomly roll or select" their power set, which means you're choosing between A) awesome psionic power or B) middling psionic power. Which will you choose? They also get a lot of survivalist and medicine skills, and at the GM's option can use the herbalism from Rifts World Book Three: England, which makes them way better than the lovely druid herbalists from that book, since they can then A) do herbs and B) lift robots with their mind. However, it just mentioned earlier how they don't become druids because they aren't disciplined enough... it just turns out they happen to be better, I guess. Speaking of not being disciplined, only 5% of them are literate. Anyway, to reiterate:
But enough of Kevin Long comics, let's have a comic by that other Kevin: Infiltration!  As we'll see, a gargoyle lord is literally twice as tall as gurgoyles. (What's more, the size comparison is drawn by Siembieda himself, so...) Next: Gargoyles in the Mist.
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Oct 14, 2013 12:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Having iterative attacks feels like a warning sign. There are very good reasons D&D 3.5 derivatives like D&D 4e or Fantasy Craft threw them out. The math on them has always ben horrible and not well thought-out, forcing fighter-types to boost their attack bonus in whatever degenerate means they can to make those extra attacks actually worthwhile at higher levels. In Legend's defense, the change to make all secondary iterative attacks equal means that there's a plausible middle ground. If Poor BAB characters can hit anything with their primaries, then Good BAB characters should be able to do the same with their secondary/iterative attacks, since they're all the same value now. Of course, there are other to-hit bonuses besides the BAB which will muddle things... but it could work. Alien Rope Burn posted:Gypsy O.C.C.s Why.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:20
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Because 90's multiculturalism!
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Oct 14, 2013 19:01
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AccidentalHipster posted:Because 90's multiculturalism! That reminds me, I went to a panel about "writing the hard stuff" at the Escapist Expo, and a guy there said he wrote the Holocaust sourcebook for OWOD, so I'm kind of interested in seeing that at some point.
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Oct 14, 2013 20:46
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FourmyleCircus posted:Adnachiel, you know far more about WGA than is sane.  Speaking of being thorough, Harris has one of the unpublished WGA supplements, Magical Music Tour posted on the game’s Facebook in three parts here, here, and here(in that order). It’s about the witch world’s music industry and making campaigns centered around it. I’m not going to do a write up because you can just go read it yourself and I don’t feel like spending a week or two translating Harris’ unedited gibberish, but here are some highlights:
Adnachiel fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 21:31
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and most of the acts involved seem to be independent.), and have gone to cyber war with them in the past. Her totally not obvious online user name is “Extreme Em”.
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Adnachiel posted:I like to be thorough. Unfortunately, I am probably the foremost expert on this game outside of Channel M now. Muses: My first thought "That's a good way to piss off everyone else at the table" considering how few people are able to do haikus or rhymes on the fly. Secondly, muses aren't just about singing and poetry. Music: Of course humans have nothing to do with music's creation. St. Joan: Yeeet another potentially interesting bit ruined because of the need to coddle those who can't stand facing consequences for actions. And again they can't keep their setting consistent.
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Oct 14, 2013 22:24
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wdarkk posted:That reminds me, I went to a panel about "writing the hard stuff" at the Escapist Expo, and a guy there said he wrote the Holocaust sourcebook for OWOD, so I'm kind of interested in seeing that at some point. The Shoah is legitimately an amazing book. I don't know how it would ever get used in play but it is one of the most respectful possible treatments in an RPG.
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Oct 14, 2013 22:31
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Mors Rattus posted:The Shoah is legitimately an amazing book. I don't know how it would ever get used in play but it is one of the most respectful possible treatments in an RPG. Really? When I heard OWOD and the holocaust, my mind immediately went to a horrible place. In other words, I assumed -- considering the company's treatment of other sensitive historical tragedies -- that they did a poor job and created a work that would offend people. Not intentionally, more from incompetence. It's good to hear they managed not to mess up such a sensitive historical subject. That said, why did they make a settings book for their game set during the holocaust? That seems...off. Maybe its because I've never played a white wolf game before, but why would one play a game during that period of history? I won't lie, I am now confused how they managed to make this book and not have it be offensive. I mean, how do you turn the holocaust into the backdrop for a game and not, just by the act of doing it, offend people? Also, in respect to the Rifts F&F, I'm going to say that some of the claims of plagiarism I see and some I just don't see. The robot with the appleseed head and the bike, for example, seems like a possible plagiarism. But things like the Coalition SAMAS and the MADOX-01 or the Glitterboy and the Gundam don't really seem that alike to me. The ones like the later feel like a bit of stretch to me.
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Oct 14, 2013 22:42
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It was for Wraith. It's not during the Holocaust - it's the part of the underworld that came about because of the Holocaust. They call it the Dark Kingdom of Wire and everyone largely leaves them alone because seriously. I suspect it was made because, by the metaphysics they came up with for Wraith, it would be impossible not to address - death and strong emotion create places. Despair creates bad things. And, well...
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Oct 14, 2013 22:54
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I still would like to see it.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:02
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Shoah is so good it makes the rest of the oWoD look even shittier because that's the sort of quality and respect their 'taboo' poo poo should have contained.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:03
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wdarkk posted:That reminds me, I went to a panel about "writing the hard stuff" at the Escapist Expo, and a guy there said he wrote the Holocaust sourcebook for OWOD, so I'm kind of interested in seeing that at some point. If I remember right it was actually not terrible but still, I wouldn't want to be in a game with it.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:05
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