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Terri Brosius, voice of SHODAN in System Shock 2 and write for Thief 3 also wrote Dishonored. Harvey Smith, designer on Deus Ex and Thief 2, was the creative director for Dishonored. Ya drat right there was some Thief references! All it needed was a magical ability to open locks or something.
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Oct 17, 2013 16:37
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| # ? May 10, 2024 18:02 |
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I think I prefer shadow-based stealth to cover-based stealth, though...although I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe shadows give you an obvious visual cue of where you can and can't hide.
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Oct 17, 2013 16:40
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/\/\ I really dislike cover based stealth, I think in large part because it makes it hard to see through the cover and thus gain environmental awareness, which is needed for sneaking. Maybe Dishonored II will add shadow based stealth, and you'll play a thief instead of an assassin, and... and... and... 
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Oct 17, 2013 16:56
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Seventh Arrow posted:I think I prefer shadow-based stealth to cover-based stealth, though...although I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe shadows give you an obvious visual cue of where you can and can't hide. I've heard people say the stealth system in Dishonored is broken in comparison to say Splinter Cell or Thief where it's much clearer when you are hidden. That argument is shot down pretty quickly when its pointed out you can loving teleport.
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Oct 17, 2013 16:57
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Hakkesshu posted:I believe one of the guard dialogues from Thief is in there verbatim somewhere. It is, but hell if I remember where.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:35
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Seventh Arrow posted:I think I prefer shadow-based stealth to cover-based stealth, though...although I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe shadows give you an obvious visual cue of where you can and can't hide.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:38
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Orv posted:It is, but hell if I remember where. It's the bit in the Daud mission where one whaler is training another in stealth afaik.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:41
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Ravenfood posted:Shadow-based also gives you more options. If you're hidden behind something, you're still hidden, even in a shadow-based system, and you're not left wondering whether the object you're hiding behind is big enough or not. Plus its a little more tense when someone is walking towards you and you're hiding in the shadows really hoping they don't get close enough to see you while you freeze solid. True...although maybe some people find it a little too easy. In shadow-based stealth, you can hang around in a dark patch for as long as you like without being noticed. Then again, I can only think of a few games that use this approach: the Thief games, the Splinter Cell games, No One Lives Forever 2, and the original Deus Ex (although the original Deus Ex was weird because it didn't give you a light meter or any way of knowing just how hidden you were). I must be missing a few, I'm sure. Extra Smooth Balls posted:It's the bit in the Daud mission where one whaler is training another in stealth afaik. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiQIFoJfgHo
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Oct 17, 2013 17:43
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I'm not sure why some games just didn't do the best of both worlds? Cover based stealth would be handy if there is a lot of light sources you can't remove, while shadow based stealth would be great for areas where there is no cover. It'd also make the level design feel more natural too if a game combined both I think. There could even be guards with torches that explore the shadowy areas when suspicious, forcing you to swiftly but silently move out of their patrol.
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Oct 17, 2013 18:37
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Extra Smooth Balls posted:It's the bit in the Daud mission where one whaler is training another in stealth afaik. No, that's not what I meant (although that is also a Thief reference). I mean there's literally a voice clip from Thief in Dishonored of two guards talking to one another. I'm pretty sure I'm not making that up? Edit: Upon googling, I must be, because I can't find any evidence of it. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 18:48
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Mr. Fortitude posted:It'd also make the level design feel more natural too if a game combined both I think. I think that's the other reason I dislike cover based stealth. It tends to make level design look goofy. Good thing there are all these big crates scattered everywhere!
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Oct 17, 2013 19:23
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Tried this dark mod thing out, and the training mission is nice, but what the gently caress those arrow physics are all wrong.
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Oct 17, 2013 19:45
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big mean giraffe posted:Tried this dark mod thing out, and the training mission is nice, but what the gently caress those arrow physics are all wrong. edit: vvvvv Oh. Then yeah. I just figured it was because Garrett had some tiny-rear end 10 lb drawweight bow because the City never came up with compound or recurve technology and so the only thing they could do was bigger=stronger. Since a bigass bow sucks for a thief, well, Garrett is left with basically a tiny toy bow. 
Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Oct 17, 2013 |
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Oct 17, 2013 19:56
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Ravenfood posted:? The bow is super weak, if that's what you mean, but otherwise I didn't have a problem with it. The arrow dropoff is insane. They drop like a rock.
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Oct 17, 2013 19:57
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I'm noticing the physics in the DarkMod is very "heavy", everything tends to act like it is made of tungsten. This can be disconcerting for people used to Thiefs "floaty" physics where things were light. Also the AI is hilariously bad still, hopefully that's what they work on now that the standalone is finished.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:22
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The bow in TDM really needs some kind of sight. I tried Glenham tower and I wasted a couple arrows because I couldn't tell where the arrow was going to land.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:25
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PiCroft posted:The bow in TDM really needs some kind of sight. I tried Glenham tower and I wasted a couple arrows because I couldn't tell where the arrow was going to land.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:27
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I find the water arrows especially temperamental in whether or not a direct hit on a torch puts out a light. My rule of thumb at the moment with aim is to line the crystal up with the target. I think there is a bow sight attachment in the Dark Mod game files but it's up to each mission designer to enable it in the players inventory or make in available in the equipment shop.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:35
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Hank Morgan posted:I find the water arrows especially temperamental in whether or not a direct hit on a torch puts out a light. Mines still bother me, though. Satisfying boom, but no range whatsoever.
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Oct 17, 2013 20:40
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Random Stranger posted:I'm sure all of the grunts on the Thief 4 team are just waiting for this disaster to be over with so they can move on. Someone said earlier that they were all idiots and that is being really unfair to them. Thief 4 stinks of managerial incompetence and there's very little that the people doing the nuts and bolts of the game can do about that. I'm pretty sure we were all addressing our accusations of incompetence at the folks managing the project. I doubt anyone here thinks the coders and artists and so on are the ones who hosed up.
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Oct 17, 2013 21:07
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People were asking for recommendations for TDM mods. I also had to abandon the mission because a patrolling guard got stuck on a door, making it impossible to sneak back out. One more tip: Downloading missions from the website isn't enough, you also need to manually make directories to put them in, otherwise The Dark Mod can't see them. The other way to do it is in-game, which is less work for you. EDIT 2: Wow, this is definitely nowhere near being ready for Steam Greenlight. Apparently you need to completely uninstall all the other mods you have before loading any other ones. I tried to load up and play "A Night to Remember", which was described as stealing some airship plans, then the map's cinematic came up, which was apparently for William Steele's "In the North", and then the actual objectives and the map came up, which was for Never download PK4 files into the Darkmod directory, I think it screws things up royally. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 14:11
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Never download PK4 files into the Darkmod directory, I think it screws things up royally. (If things still don't work, someone can probably help you on the forums.)
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Oct 19, 2013 10:48
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Dishonored isn't Thief 4 if only because Corvus thinks choking people out is better than carrying around a sap, plus he needs more long-ranged non-lethal methods. put in gas mines, twice as many tranq darts, and place the one fetish that lets you choke guards in a second earlier in the game, and I'll consider Dishonored a more direct sequel. I know you can always just avoid the guards, but I've always been a part of the school that considers a ghost run incomplete until I'm the last person awake at the end, and I appreciated how the Thief series gave me tools to make that sort of run possible. Speaking of which, I got The Dark Mod downloaded and I've played through St. Lucia and the first level of No Honor among Thieves. So far I've noticed that the sap can be kind of inconsistent when it comes to knocking guards out; sometimes it works when I'm crouched, oftentimes it doesn't, sometimes it'll knock out a guy who's suspicious, sometimes it doesn't. Does anyone know the exact conditions needed for a knockout blow? Seventh Arrow posted:(although the original Deus Ex was weird because it didn't give you a light meter or any way of knowing just how hidden you were). That's not entirely true. You can see how deep you are in shadows by pulling out a weapon and checking how well lit it is.
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Oct 20, 2013 06:28
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Does anyone know the exact conditions needed for a knockout blow? As for the other conditions, if the enemy is unaware and is not wearing a metal helmet, he can be knocked-out with a blow to the head from any facing; if he's aware and/or wearing a metal helmet only blows from the back will work; enemies with a metal helmet that includes a protective face grill cannot be blackjacked. Once I get back home I'll include a link to the video. Edit: here's the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V31S7w4qBcE radintorov fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Oct 20, 2013 10:01
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Seventh Arrow posted:True...although maybe some people find it a little too easy. In shadow-based stealth, you can hang around in a dark patch for as long as you like without being noticed. Then again, I can only think of a few games that use this approach: the Thief games, the Splinter Cell games, No One Lives Forever 2, and the original Deus Ex (although the original Deus Ex was weird because it didn't give you a light meter or any way of knowing just how hidden you were). I must be missing a few, I'm sure. Wait, did Deus Ex have shadow-based stealth? I always thought it was just proximity/line of sight based. I know System Shock 2 used the same mechanics as Thief (being a dark engine game), only you didn't have a light-gem to help you.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:28
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Triggsz posted:Wait, did Deus Ex have shadow-based stealth? I always thought it was just proximity/line of sight based. I know System Shock 2 used the same mechanics as Thief (being a dark engine game), only you didn't have a light-gem to help you. Darkness mattered in Deus Ex, but not overly much.
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Oct 20, 2013 10:30
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And in System Shock 2 also.^^^^ Bobbin Threadbare posted:I know you can always just avoid the guards, but I've always been a part of the school that considers a ghost run incomplete until I'm the last person awake at the end Ghosting means that no one is alerted to you, or bopped by you, or ever knows you are there, until the hypothetical next morning when they realise all their poo poo is missing. Knocking out every guard in the level is just how regular schlubs play, and is not a real challenge.  (Your LPs still owned though, and are just about the only VLPs I can stand to watch.)I tried ghosting a few times, but never had the patience to keep sneaking back and forward past the same guards over and over. I still like having the option though.
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Oct 20, 2013 13:40
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Corridor posted:And in System Shock 2 also.^^^^ My usual method for a first playthrough is "gotta catch 'em all" because then you can have a proper nose around and scope out all the valuables, also trying to stack guards in weird places is funny.
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Oct 20, 2013 13:44
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I also always knock out all the guards because I like to imagine them waking up in the chimney or toilet the next morning, all stacked on top of one another like a big gay orgy. And it just feels so nice to drop them with the blackjack.
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Oct 20, 2013 13:49
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Corridor posted:I tried ghosting a few times, but never had the patience to keep sneaking back and forward past the same guards over and over. I still like having the option though. Ghosting? Like, walking through walls?
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Oct 20, 2013 13:58
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Dishonored isn't Thief 4 if only because Corvus thinks choking people out is better than carrying around a sap, plus he needs more long-ranged non-lethal methods. put in gas mines, twice as many tranq darts, and place the one fetish that lets you choke guards in a second earlier in the game, and I'll consider Dishonored a more direct sequel. I know you can always just avoid the guards, but I've always been a part of the school that considers a ghost run incomplete until I'm the last person awake at the end, and I appreciated how the Thief series gave me tools to make that sort of run possible. Most of the things you want are already available in the two story DLCs for Dishonored. You can carry more tranq darts, there are electrical stun mines that knock people out, chokedust grenades that stun people temporarily and can be upgraded to also cause amnesia, and a telekinetic power that lets you pilfer loot from range as well as grab people to kill or choke out if you upgrade it.
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Oct 20, 2013 14:56
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I played Dishonored pretty much exactly the way I play Thief. The only major difference being Corvo has more mobility options instead of Garrett's gadgets, and so you go above enemies instead of hiding in the shadows. Though to be honest I never used mines in Thief either.
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Oct 20, 2013 14:59
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Darkrenown posted:Ghosting? Like, walking through walls? Corridor posted:Ghosting means that no one is alerted to you, or bopped by you, or ever knows you are there, until the hypothetical next morning when they realise all their poo poo is missing. I think the only level I bother to ghosted (do spiders count?) was the one where Garrett had to break in the police station since it was already kinda of an objective. My favourite level for stacking bodies will always be Life of the Party. So, so many people tossed down the elevator shaft.
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Oct 20, 2013 15:07
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Thief is like my all-time favourite game, but I've never once ghosted a level. gently caress that poo poo. Stacking unconscious dudes in corners all day erryday.
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Oct 20, 2013 16:01
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It was a joke, one of the developers said the same thing when asked about ghosting at gamescon.
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Oct 20, 2013 16:18
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Hakkesshu posted:Thief is like my all-time favourite game, but I've never once ghosted a level. gently caress that poo poo. Stacking unconscious dudes in corners all day erryday. That was one of the only downsides of Dishonored: you could only have a certain number of unconscious/dead bodies at once due to console optimisation or something. Nothing like bringing another guard back to your pile only to discover they've all vanished in the meantime. 
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Oct 20, 2013 16:29
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Well you could if you edited some Ini's
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Oct 20, 2013 16:37
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Darkrenown posted:Ghosting? Like, walking through walls? The Thief Who Walks Through Walls Hannibal Rex posted:chokedust grenades that stun people temporarily and can be upgraded to also cause amnesia, and a telekinetic power that lets you pilfer loot from range as well as grab people to kill or choke out if you upgrade it. As nice as amnesia and teleporting other stuff (instead of yourself) is for those enraging moments when you make a dumb mistake... does it break the game at all?
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Oct 20, 2013 18:16
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Hakkesshu posted:Thief is like my all-time favourite game, but I've never once ghosted a level. gently caress that poo poo. Stacking unconscious dudes in corners all day erryday. One of my favorite ones was Ironman Ghosting the bank in Thief 2. I would absolutely recommend it, but make sure you have your route planned out. Knocking guards out gives you more freedom to move back and forth between areas, but part of the point of ghosting is the efficiency of getting in, getting what you need, and getting out all in one go. Bobbin Threadbare posted:Dishonored isn't Thief 4 if only because Corvus thinks choking people out is better than carrying around a sap, plus he needs more long-ranged non-lethal methods... I've always been a part of the school that considers a ghost run incomplete until I'm the last person awake at the end, and I appreciated how the Thief series gave me tools to make that sort of run possible. I've always treated ghosting as is only complete when nobody knows you were there, period. No knock outs, never being spotted, etc... I wouldn't go as far as the Lydia(?) style which is closing doors behind you and leaving no trace at all, but ghosting is definitely 'no knockouts' in my mind. The reason I consider Dishonored Thief 4 is because you can ghost it under my definition. Just like Thief.
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Oct 20, 2013 18:22
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| # ? May 10, 2024 18:02 |
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User0015 posted:
Lytha style? The best mission to ghost is Assassins. Ramirez thinks his thugs have killed you but in a few hours he's going to notice his purse is missing, his home stripped of valuables and his Burricks are dead (if you are that way inclined). Delicious. That whole mission is Garrett in a nutshell. Not this moody "steal to survive, now I survive to steal" nonsense from the new game.
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Oct 20, 2013 18:34
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