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SheepNameKiller posted:Only use a bashed or merged patch if you absolutely know what you are merging, they tend to merge a lot of things that shouldn't be merged otherwise and completely remove load order as a way of managing mods. I thought that bashed patches were pretty much as easy and safe as BOSS these days? I load up my 50 mods, run BOSS via MO, then run Wrye via MO to make a bashed patch with whatever default settings Wrye uses. Its 'rebuild patch' option has been pretty hassle free. I will admit I have no idea when I should be using a 'Merged' patch from TES5Edit. There's a post several pages ago in this thread from someone who said they never use Bashed patches anymore -- only merged patches. Some guidance on when to use Merged vs Bashed vs Both would be great (I've only been using Bashed).
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Oct 21, 2013 19:52
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pmchem posted:I thought that bashed patches were pretty much as easy and safe as BOSS these days? I load up my 50 mods, run BOSS via MO, then run Wrye via MO to make a bashed patch with whatever default settings Wrye uses. Its 'rebuild patch' option has been pretty hassle free. You should only use bashed and merged patches when mod authors tell you they are needed to resolve incompatibilities between two mods, usually ones that affect leveled lists. There's no reason to do them otherwise and they're actually a bad practice in general because nearly 100% of non-leveled-list conflicts can be resolved by load order.
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Oct 21, 2013 19:58
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If you can use TES5Edit enough to make a merged patch you can probably use it enough to comb through the merged patch and see what's necessary/logical/a leveled list and what isn't, no?
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Oct 21, 2013 20:07
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Yeah I just skip merging these days and only use a Bash for leveled list mods, of which I only have a few so it's not too big a deal. TES5Edit merges are great if you really want to use several overhaul types and want to pick and choose which values from which mods end up being used. Otherwise I would just stick to BOSS load order overwrites and not try and run multiple overhauls if you don't know what you're doing.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:11
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epitasis posted:If you can use TES5Edit enough to make a merged patch you can probably use it enough to comb through the merged patch and see what's necessary/logical/a leveled list and what isn't, no? Yeah, my original statement which was lost at the bottom of the last page was "do not make a merged patch unless you absolutely know what it is you are merging". It's bad practice to create merged and bashed patches every time you update your mods without actually checking what you're doing. I'll expand a bit more on why. Let's say you have a mod and a compatibility patch for said mod. The mod author designed the mod in such a way that the main mod makes an edit to a record, which is then overwritten by the changes made by a compatibility patch. This is how the mod is designed to work, and as long as you use load order to manage mod interactions your mod is working as intended. If you create a merged or bashed patch on these two mods, what's happening is the changes from both the original mod and the compatibility patch are being combined together into one record based on an algorithm written by a completely different developer. The end result is not necessarily the same when merging as the resulted interaction intended by the mod's creator. The same principle exists if you are using multiple large mods with a required load order in their mod description on Skyrim Nexus. Any time a load order is required a record is going through this waterfall type deal where only the changes of the final mod to load are actually applied to a specific object, which is how these mods were designed by their creators to interact with one another. When you create a merged patch, you're again using a program that was written by a third party to select the "correct" value to carry over. This often leads to unintended results. SheepNameKiller fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 20:15
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pmchem posted:I will admit I have no idea when I should be using a 'Merged' patch from TES5Edit. There's a post several pages ago in this thread from someone who said they never use Bashed patches anymore -- only merged patches. Some guidance on when to use Merged vs Bashed vs Both would be great (I've only been using Bashed). There is no difference mechanically, but when using TES5Edit you can see the changes that are being made on a line by line basis and can make changes to the merged patch manually if you don't like the result. It's essentially a stronger tool for those who want absolute control over changes made. Like if I have a realistic needs mod that adds a script to every food item, and a rebalancing food mod that changes the weight of every food item, I can make my own merged compatibility patch in TES5Edit in 5 minutes that keeps both the weight changes and scripts intact on the final record. A bashed patch will *probably* do this as well, but on less simplistic examples or records edited by 3+ mods it would most likely lead to a less desirable result. SheepNameKiller fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 20:25
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I thought Wyre Bash took in account load order and will not include record changes that would be normally overwritten.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:42
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GrizzlyCow posted:I thought Wyre Bash took in account load order and will not include record changes that would be normally overwritten. I can tell you that this doesn't always happen, and there's literally no reason to risk it since merged/bashed patches have been becoming obsolete in favor of compatibility patches & leveled list injection for a while now.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:48
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What popular mods use injection?
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Oct 21, 2013 20:50
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So far I'm liking the rest of CoT, but I just tried the "Sounds" part and holy poo poo, after 5 mins, that had to go. Whiterun sounded like some sort of mix of jungle and a fire alarm going off. But oh well, not a big loss for me, at least.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:53
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epitasis posted:What popular mods use injection? Frostfall, for one. I don't have a full list, but I'd imagine quite a lot of the ones sophisticated enough to have MCM menus probably make leveled list changes via script.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:54
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What this guy is saying about merged/bashed patches is really important and should be re-read for emphasis by everyone. Especially merged patches. I never understand people saying leveled lists conflicts get sorted out by a merged patch. Merged patch has no functionality for merging multiple conflicting leveled lists into a single functional combined list like a bashed patch attempts to do. Unless I missed something. I think bashed patches do a pretty acceptable job though if you have your DELEV/RELEV tags right. It's not perfect and may need some editing, but it will do an okay job. Ularg posted:Oh God I don't know if I should be using WATER or Realistic Water Two mod. Ularg posted:A 660ti would be plenty to be able to handle Texture pack combiner and it would be my best option? I have a lot of trouble picking out the perfect texture packs and rather have a ton downloaded and have something choose the perceived best for me and let me tweak from there if I really really want to. pmchem posted:Can we talk combat mods? futile fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 21:02
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Honestly I think the TPC is going to be phased out eventually in favor of stuff like Vivid Landscapes and the aMidianBorn series. aMB is essentially the armor retex mod to use, and now that the project team has expanded it's very likely that they'll be pushing out a full overhaul (they've already done caves and some landscape retextures, as well as a Whiterun retex).
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Oct 21, 2013 21:12
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Yeah, exactly. Every single mod TPC uses is slowly being trumped by something bigger and better and TPC itself isn't being updated to reflect it. TPC still makes a very good texture pack though. I'm also kind of weary about landscapes with aMB. They did a good job with caves, and their armors are the best thing ever, but I really didn't like whiterun or the landscapes mod.
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Oct 21, 2013 21:24
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Alright, I've beaten vanilla Skyrim into a fine paste in the past few weeks with multiple characters, and I'm looking to shake things up. I am not looking for complete graphical overhauls (at least not yet; I'm still running with my GTX 260 for another month or two and I'm not sure it can handle a lot of them - but if there are any lightweight ones feel free to throw them at me) and I am definitely not looking for anything that makes it more of a pain to play (so stuff like Frostfall is Right Out). I am looking for things that shake up: - Leveling and progression (looking at the Skyrim Experience Mod and SPERG in particular, as well as one or two on Shouts, but open to options) - Combat (especially magic, since it just gets abhorrently boring in vanilla) - Loot and economy (because it's boring to drown in gold with nothing to spend it on - though I'd really like mods fixing the latter aspect over the former!  )Also any advice or caveats for someone getting into modding Skyrim for the first time would be appreciated. I played around a little bit with Oblivion but I don't tend to mod my games too often, so this is mostly fresh and new and oh god why are there so many boob mods 
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Oct 21, 2013 22:01
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Yeah, after my last crash report I left the Rift and played all day without issue. I shouldn't be back that way with my Mage much except for Fort Dawnguard, so fingers crossed! I'd like to take this opportunity to thank seorin for SPERG. It's really great!
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Oct 21, 2013 22:27
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theshim posted:Also any advice or caveats for someone getting into modding Skyrim for the first time would be appreciated. I played around a little bit with Oblivion but I don't tend to mod my games too often, so this is mostly fresh and new and oh god why are there so many boob mods Use Mod Organizer - it wasn't that hard to learn even for me having never modded a Bethesda game before. NMM has appeal because of it's perceived ease of use, but MO gives you segregated profiles which are a godsend for just trying new things. Make a new profile, copy saves, try new thing. If you like it keep going - if not just go back to the last profile. That alone makes it a winner in my book.
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Oct 21, 2013 22:31
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theshim posted:Alright, I've beaten vanilla Skyrim into a fine paste in the past few weeks with multiple characters, and I'm looking to shake things up. On my pure mage, combat-wise, I pretty much just use SPERG and Apocalypse Spell Pack and that's enough to make things feel really new. I mean it's still the Skyrim engine and overall feel, but you get a ton more cool spells that are balanced enough that you don't feel guilty using them.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:20
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epitasis posted:What popular mods use injection?
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Oct 22, 2013 02:00
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How does injection actually work though? Just as the name implies?
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Oct 22, 2013 02:38
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In short I'm pretty sure what he was referring to as injecting is basically adding items to leveled lists via scripts instead of ESP records. Supposedly immersive armors v7 will have the ability to toggle armor types on/off, toggle crafting only, world leveled list distribution, etc. due to this method. Maybe if Hothtrooper shows up he can give us the lowdown. In other news, finally there's a way to get the full source from pex files (convert to .psc) thanks to This program called Champollion. Something that should have been possible from the beginning.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:13
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SheepNameKiller posted:You should only use bashed and merged patches when mod authors tell you they are needed to resolve incompatibilities between two mods, usually ones that affect leveled lists. There's no reason to do them otherwise and they're actually a bad practice in general because nearly 100% of non-leveled-list conflicts can be resolved by load order. This has been a good discussion. I'm using MO 1.0.7 to deal with mod order for things like meshes or other loose files which are overwritten, and I have BOSS/Wrye setup in MO to deal with everything else. I use BOSS for load order, and in the process it suggests various Wrye tags... I then run Wrye bash via MO, and I presume it's making use of those BOSS suggestions somehow. With Wrye 304_2 default bash patching, it doesn't do anything like try to merge ESPs. It does these things for my basically 100-mod long list: merges some tweaked settings  handles leveled lists  The output afterwards is in a (poorly formatted) pastebin, here: http://pastebin.com/iMxAz7FG I gotta get those leveled lists handled, and this looks ok? I just grabbed all the mods I wanted, ran utilities and pressed default buttons.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:33
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http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/44979//  want a new body mod from some creepy white knight modders? I've actually used an earlier version of this mod, only because it is one of the extremely few mods that removes boob plates from female armor. This is the newest version, with armor conversions to follow. Not bad, especially compared to some of the other body mods, but it still has a bendier spine than Slenderman.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:07
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Grabbed a few mods - all the unofficial patches, MO, Apocalypse, SkyUI and RCRN. Seorin - does SPERG play well with SXP? I'd kind of like both, if they do, but from the slower perk advancement you mentioned I'm not sure. (Come to think of it, does it play nicely with Apocalypse? Oh god what am I doing  )Also, can anyone recommend a particular loot/economy mod that's worth using?
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Oct 22, 2013 06:20
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Trade & Barter and Morrowloot are what you need for loot and economy needs. Morrowloot especially. It owns. So much.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:22
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Does Morrowloot affect immersive armors or can I still craft them?
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Oct 22, 2013 06:28
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You can still craft anything from Immersive Armors. Morrowloot just removes the vanilla crafting recipes.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:35
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Scyantific posted:Trade & Barter and Morrowloot are what you need for loot and economy needs. Morrowloot especially. It owns. So much. I've been having a hell of a time getting Morrowloot to work "correctly" or what I think is correctly with my mod load. Does it play nice with other mods that affect the leveled lists, like Weaponizer and Armonizer? It removes the crafting recipes as it should, but I end up finding Orcish loot on regular bandits at the usual level when I run it with another mod that touches the loot lists.
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Oct 22, 2013 07:33
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Phetz posted:I've been having a hell of a time getting Morrowloot to work "correctly" or what I think is correctly with my mod load. Does it play nice with other mods that affect the leveled lists, like Weaponizer and Armonizer? It removes the crafting recipes as it should, but I end up finding Orcish loot on regular bandits at the usual level when I run it with another mod that touches the loot lists. You have to use a bashed patch for it to work properly.
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Oct 22, 2013 07:51
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Arcsquad12 posted:http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/44979// Nuska who does the textures (and meshes) is an actual woman, so I am not sure if that makes her a white knight. But yeah CNHF is pretty classical "almost. You almost got it." Body replacers aren't really...needed? By Skyrim because the vanilla game looks good as is, its not like Morrowind. But the author seems to be like "I'm going to give females smaller breasts and huge thighs" as a counter to Nexus culture which admirable but...unnecessary. Nuska is doing such great work making the Fallouts and Oblivion look less ugly though so whatever, if the other dude wants to claim he's promoting transgender rights by putting out female models with penises okay. edit: but yeah, if I remember the original mod even had the author addressing a complaint that the spines on his "more real women" body mod were unhealthy and handwaved it because of "reasons". Don't really understand why your progressive understanding mod needs to be a nude mod. Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 07:51
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Scyantific posted:You have to use a bashed patch for it to work properly. Weird thing is, I have been using a bashed patch for them both but I still get the higher-tiered stuff. Do I let it automatically pick which lists to bash, or should I pick and choose only the ones affecting loot/equipment?
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Oct 22, 2013 08:02
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Berke Negri posted:Nuska who does the textures (and meshes) is an actual woman, so I am not sure if that makes her a white knight. I have nothing against Nuska. Her skin textures are a thing of beauty. It's Calyps that I take issue with. I applaud their attempts to make proper breastplates and more physically fit looking bodies, that's not the problem. The problem is his passive aggressive attitude towards other body replacers. If you want a skinny anime waifu then go ahead and use it. Calyps comes across as very antagonistic to other body mod replacers, like he believes that *his* mod is the *only* one that can be used, because look at how progressive I'm being! I have muscled women, and transvestite models! I'm nothing like those other guys who just fap to naked models! He undermines his own goals when he attacks other modders for things he does just as badly.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:24
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I agree. That's why I was saying why does Skyrim need body replacers? Morrowind or Oblivion, okay, but...shouldn't you be more focused on .nif skeleton work, where real changes can be made? And the transgender hero thing I have no problem with, outside of wondering why a hero needs to be completely nude in the first place? That's what I'll never understand about calyps and nuska's thing is okay, make this more "realistic" female form and (why?) devote all these resources towards pube hair meshing or whatever the gently caress. On top of that I tried out the CHNF skeleton and it made the female skeleton have a huge butt regardless of the sliders, because I guess this is realistic. Unfortunately it clipped through a lot of armor too, so. I tried it for about fifteen minutes then reverted because it was kind of silly having a huge butt but small frame for my "tough" girl.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:39
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Skyrim needs body replacers because there aren't any dickgirls, and that's heteronormative.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:45
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You should take this argument to the Awful Mods thread.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:45
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Kilroy posted:Skyrim needs body replacers because there aren't any dickgirls, and that's heteronormative. What kind of dick are you looking for?
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Oct 22, 2013 08:50
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At last, there is one category Nexus has yet to think of for Skyrim.epitasis posted:You should take this argument to the Awful Mods thread. I don't know, I've made the whole circut by now modding Morrowind and Oblivion and Skyrim, and honestly. Morrowind needed it for sure. Some people wanted dick modules for that? Fine. Oblivion people looked awkward until...very recently, so okay. But by Skyrim Bethesda actually came up with good models so a lot of this doesnt make sense. Most of the body mods look worse than the vanilla frankly. Its like weve reached this weird point where the modding culture hasn't clued into reality. Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 08:57
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I don't think micropenises are adequately represented in Skyrim, nor macroclitoratii.
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Oct 22, 2013 08:57
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I wasn't too keen on any of the body replacers for Oblivion either. I don't think every NPC needs to have flawless abs and well-defined buttocks. Photorealistic genitals aren't a priority for me either, personally. Oblivion faces were even worse than Morrowind unplugged though, making NPCs Revamped a must-have.
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Oct 22, 2013 09:10
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pmchem posted:I gotta get those leveled lists handled, and this looks ok? I just grabbed all the mods I wanted, ran utilities and pressed default buttons. Leveled lists are pretty much always 100% safe to merge, so you're fine.
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Oct 22, 2013 16:31
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