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El Scotch posted:I'm curious how long it will take for AMD to compete. There was a good article on it on Techreport today, and I think they may be right as to perhaps where AMD should be aiming. It's a cool idea but I think you guys are overestimating how well it's going to be adopted. Going off the fact that the only monitor being sold with the chip installed is 120hz and $400, the target market is pretty small. I don't think g-sync will ever get beyond the high-end enthusiast market. Even among those people the proportion that use 120hz is not that great.
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Oct 21, 2013 23:35
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Magic Underwear posted:It's a cool idea but I think you guys are overestimating how well it's going to be adopted. Going off the fact that the only monitor being sold with the chip installed is 120hz and $400, the target market is pretty small. I don't think g-sync will ever get beyond the high-end enthusiast market. Even among those people the proportion that use 120hz is not that great.
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Oct 21, 2013 23:41
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Ardlen posted:It doesn't have to be used on 120Hz monitors. The articles I read had improvements aimed at running at 40-50 fps. True. But, your choices are going to be: 1. Pre-installed. This is an expensive module to put in any old monitor, so most likely it will stay in a few specialty "gaming" monitors. I don't see it going into regular TN monitors because it would practically double the price. IPS monitors maybe, but they are already more expensive and adding another hundo to the price for a gaming feature is not exactly appetizing for the mainstream gamer. Not to mention that most people can't justify replacing a perfectly functional monitor. 2. DIY. Will be limited to a few monitors that have the right internals. Will probably require taking off the case of the monitor. Risks damaging the module, the monitor, or both. The number of people willing to do this is probably comparable to the number of people that install aftermarket water cooling on their CPU and GPU. Magic Underwear fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 23:54
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The specifics of this are less important to me than the fact that it now exists as a feasible thing. I think it'll take time, but it's just such an incredibly obvious thing to do that nonetheless required a lot of technological finagling to unmake the rote frame display model that I firmly believe it will be an important part of the market's future, especially as higher resolution displays become the norm. It's an excellent solution to many real issues, one of the least of which is running videogames - perfect output of cinematic content that doesn't require any pull-down is something that people have spent more than a few hundred bucks on, by an order of magnitude. nVidia was just in a good place to have the necessary resources both in terms of R&D through their 3D integration and LCD panel refresh control technology plus their work with adaptive vsync to realize the concept. Now that it's out, the conversation is less about "will people adopt this" and more about "how can AMD respond, given that they have the consoles entire" and other such things that are more about the consequences of the technology per se rather than its genesis. I don't know if it's enlightened self-interest or what, but this is a perfectly obvious idea that nonetheless does something that nobody has done before and, in the future, I think, many manufacturers will be wanting to do. The path from here to there may be a little bit uncertain, but this is an excellent example of what is effectively a tech demo being so successful that it's sparking a much broader conversation on how the goal laid out can be accomplished at a wider scale. And it's about damned time, all of the solutions in the interim have been imperfect at best.
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Oct 22, 2013 00:52
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Endgadget got an interview with the CEO of Nvidia, in addition to other stuff we already know he talks about the next Tegra chip, also known as Project Logan, and reveals they are already working on Shield 2 which may use the next Tegra processor. All those poor Shield owners.  http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/21/nvidia-ceo-jen-hsun-huang-interview-october-2013/
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Oct 22, 2013 00:54
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Agreed posted:I don't know about y'all but this G-Sync stuff is some stuff I would totally buy. Like, the more I think about it, the more sense it makes and I'm hyped as hell (as well as wondering why someone didn't already do it, given that the need to sync refresh to power or refresh to phosphor fade rate went away in like 2004). G-Sync is putting me off buying a 2nd 2713HM. I just hope that there are good 27" IPS GSync panels avaliable near launch. At least at the high end, I don't see how GSync doesn't completely destroy AMD in the next generation unless they can quickly come up with similar tech or quickly find out how to interop with it. The more I read about it the more I'm convinced this is really revolutionary tech.
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Oct 22, 2013 02:45
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Chuu posted:G-Sync is putting me off buying a 2nd 2713HM. I just hope that there are good 27" IPS GSync panels avaliable near launch. If no IPS displays adopt the tech, then it could fail. IPS displays are vastly superior in about every way except not having 120 Hz refresh rates; G-Sync would be perfect for them. At that point, the only thing they couldn't do would be 3D at 60 FPS, and that's probably a dead fad at this point (and would require a monster of a GPU). Unfortunately, this is NVIDIA's proprietary tech at this point, and I'm betting that if they don't license it to AMD, they aren't going to adopt an open standard if it does come along. It has the same problems as TrueAudio: proprietary and with an extremely poor selection of supported hardware at first.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:05
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This R9 280X is confusing. I looked up some benchmarks and it seems to either get beaten by the 760, or is pretty much on par, or has a pretty huge advantage. Is it worth getting one over a 760? I can get a 760 here for $279 or the 280X for $369. Looking at the benchmarks was confusing me so I thought I'd ask you guys about it. What's the dealio?
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Oct 22, 2013 04:40
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cat doter posted:This R9 280X is confusing. I looked up some benchmarks and it seems to either get beaten by the 760, or is pretty much on par, or has a pretty huge advantage. Is it worth getting one over a 760? I can get a 760 here for $279 or the 280X for $369. Looking at the benchmarks was confusing me so I thought I'd ask you guys about it. What's the dealio? If those are the prices in dingoland then get the 760. But it sounds like your 280X is probably being gouged by retailers because it of the initial lack of supply. The 7970 GHZ Edition is the same card so compare that too.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:05
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Can anyone think of a tech as groundbreaking as Gsync appears to be go way of the Dodo because it didn't catch on despite being amazing? It will weasel it's way into monitors if it's that good. I'm with John Carmack and Tim Sweeney, this is more important than 4K at the moment.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:11
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Ozz81 posted:I did a quick Google search and it looks like this isn't an uncommon issue - people with desktops and laptops have had graphics issues with SLI since upgrading to 8.1. Nvidia released a 326.01 driver for Win8.1, maybe remove the existing drivers and do a clean install with the new ones? Holy gently caress nVidia, get your poo poo together. Plugged my monitors to my other card (marked as 1 instead of 2 on the control panel) and VOILA loving SLI.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:14
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Zero VGS posted:If those are the prices in dingoland then get the 760. But it sounds like your 280X is probably being gouged by retailers because it of the initial lack of supply. The 7970 GHZ Edition is the same card so compare that too. You're probably right, the 7970 seems to hover around $300ish at the moment so that price seems a bit out of whack. I'll probably just grab the 760. Thanks.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:19
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Has Nvidia released any specs on Maxwell parts yet, and if so, anyone know what kind of step up from current 780/Titan parts they will be? I'm right on the cusp of a new PC build, and I'm curious if I should just go with a 780, or wait for Maxwell.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:51
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cat doter posted:This R9 280X is confusing. I looked up some benchmarks and it seems to either get beaten by the 760, or is pretty much on par, or has a pretty huge advantage. Is it worth getting one over a 760? I can get a 760 here for $279 or the 280X for $369. Looking at the benchmarks was confusing me so I thought I'd ask you guys about it. What's the dealio? Zero VGS posted:If those are the prices in dingoland then get the 760. But it sounds like your 280X is probably being gouged by retailers because it of the initial lack of supply. The 7970 GHZ Edition is the same card so compare that too. We also never got the price drop on radeon cards that the states seem to have had in the lead up to the *new* generation coming out. I'm assuming you're looking at PC Case Gear pricing, since $279 just happens to be the price they have for a Galaxy gtx760.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:10
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Yeah Pccasegear is usually where I go to check out what's new. I thought the 280X would be much cheaper than the 7970 but I was completely wrong. If that was the cast it'd be, what, $250? I'd buy one at that price.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:22
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Purgatory Glory posted:Can anyone think of a tech as groundbreaking as Gsync appears to be go way of the Dodo because it didn't catch on despite being amazing? It will weasel it's way into monitors if it's that good. I'm with John Carmack and Tim Sweeney, this is more important than 4K at the moment. Firewire? Thunderbolt? Laserdisc? Virtual Reality? Zip disks? I think you overestimate the mass-market appeal. G-sync is ultimately a $100 feature in a world where mainstream PC gamers are by and large playing on awful laptop screens and cheap TN monitors. If they can get it to be really cheap maybe it could work. Even if they reduce the cost ten fold, are monitor manufacturers going to be crazy about increasing their mainstream monitors by $10 for a feature only a small number of computers can even use?
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Oct 22, 2013 06:27
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cat doter posted:This R9 280X is confusing. I looked up some benchmarks and it seems to either get beaten by the 760, or is pretty much on par, or has a pretty huge advantage. Is it worth getting one over a 760? I can get a 760 here for $279 or the 280X for $369. Looking at the benchmarks was confusing me so I thought I'd ask you guys about it. What's the dealio? What benchmarks were you looking at? The R9-280X handily beats the 760 in performance in most games. Are you talking about the benchmarks at techPowerUp? If so, that's just the nature of things. Some games favor nVidia graphic cards over AMD. For the most part, the R9 280X trades blows with the 770, beating the 760 easily. I usually check up at AnandTech, TechReport, and HardOCP. But yeah, I wouldn't buy a R9 280X for $369. Get the 760 and consider a 7950 Boost if it is similarly priced.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:32
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Has Nvidia released any specs on Maxwell parts yet, and if so, anyone know what kind of step up from current 780/Titan parts they will be? I'm right on the cusp of a new PC build, and I'm curious if I should just go with a 780, or wait for Maxwell.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:38
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loving nvidia...trying to install R331 drivers and it rendered my system completely unusable...can't uninstall drivers, can't reinstall drivers, can't boot normally; only boot mode that works is 640x480. I hate computers.
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Oct 22, 2013 06:38
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movax posted:loving nvidia...trying to install R331 drivers and it rendered my system completely unusable...can't uninstall drivers, can't reinstall drivers, can't boot normally; only boot mode that works is 640x480. GTX 660 Ti here, I installed these last night and everything seems to be working fine... Does Event Viewer provide any answers by chance? It's really weird how everyone is starting to get hit set after set by nvidia now but I haven't really had any issues that were the fault of the drivers.
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Oct 22, 2013 14:51
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I've been meaning to ask, I've been bouncing around from card to card at Microcenter to try to settle on the right one for me, and when I tried a 660ti, well, it seemed smoother than even my 7970. With the framerate uncapped on FFXIV:ARR, the 660ti pushed around 60 FPS compared to 80 with the 7970 on the same settings. Yet with both framerates locked to 60, the 660ti seemed more... consistent? Is this the micro-stuttering thing I've been hearing about? I used to QA test the game Dance Central which runs at 60fps and I was in charge of watching the frame performance because I was really sensitive to frame drops and screen tearing, but this feels different... like time is subtly warped.
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Oct 22, 2013 15:19
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Might you have had Adaptive Vsync on with the 660 Ti, and you were noticing Vsync judder (i.e. when it suddenly drops to 30 FPS for a moment) on the AMD card?
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Oct 22, 2013 15:49
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movax posted:loving nvidia...trying to install R331 drivers and it rendered my system completely unusable...can't uninstall drivers, can't reinstall drivers, can't boot normally; only boot mode that works is 640x480. R331 didn't break my system, but I updated to it via the GF Experience, and after reboot, it still said it was not installed. On Windows 8.1.
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Oct 22, 2013 16:16
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Magic Underwear posted:Well, they did announce a game bundle. http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/announcing-the-geforce-gtx-holiday-bundle-featuring-heroes-pirates-and-spies Welp, that's the last time I decide to be an early adopter.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:56
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Just a gentle reminder, the r9 280x is a 7970. It even crossfires with the 7970. Remember this when making decisions.
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Oct 22, 2013 22:57
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veedubfreak posted:Just a gentle reminder, the r9 280x is a 7970. It even crossfires with the 7970. Remember this when making decisions. It's more like a 7970 GHZ edition.
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Oct 22, 2013 23:02
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veedubfreak posted:Just a gentle reminder, the r9 280x is a 7970. It even crossfires with the 7970. Remember this when making decisions. With the added bonus of being able to hook up 3 monitors without using DisplayPort
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Oct 22, 2013 23:27
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Purgatory Glory posted:Can anyone think of a tech as groundbreaking as Gsync appears to be go way of the Dodo because it didn't catch on despite being amazing? Fuzz1111 fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 23:32
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Fuzz1111 posted:Magic gave some good answers, but if you want to know how popular this will be just look at how often people opt for 120hz monitors for non-3D use - it's a big deal to some (eg: me - I used a CRT until 120hz LCD's came out), but even among gamers, for the most part it's a solution to a problem they don't notice or care about. But that's because 120hz does not solve a problem other than one of opinion. Whereas G-sync is a solution to a real, common issue. Games rarely run above 60fps, but they frequently run below 60fps.
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Oct 22, 2013 23:52
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Jan posted:But that's because 120hz does not solve a problem other than one of opinion. Whereas G-sync is a solution to a real, common issue. His point still stands though, most people don't even know the difference between network latency and fps. Most people don't know and don't care about these things. We know and we "care" because we choose to build our systems and follow hardware news, but I'd wager we are the minority. This looks like a nice piece of tech like dedicated physx cards that only a few lavish spenders will go for. Not really looking good in terms of bang for buck right now.
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Oct 23, 2013 00:06
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It will be up to nVidia to educate both industry insiders and consumers as to the utility of this product, as demonstrated in this thread its actual capabilities are misunderstood, the very real problem it seeks finally to solve is misunderstood even by those who probably consider themselves informed. The fact that they managed to push enough through to get PhysX in some major AAA games despite the fact that it doesn't actually do much, realistically speaking, gives me faith that they can leverage this much more useful technology into real products - and even if they don't, a working, iterative product release that does the thing they set out to do helps to start the overall conversation toward the same kind of gap analysis driven thinking that's on display at our relatively minute consumer level; this is not some bullshit proprietary 3D tech or an epiphenomenal hardware accelerated physics API, this solves a massive issue and addresses problems that will inevitably need to be faced head-on as we progress upward in resolution. We've got AMD's next generation technology and it performs about the same as big Kepler, as far as we can tell (and I doubt they'd let their stock take a pounding if a fuller NDA release would prevent it). nVidia's next gen will be some time coming, we'll see how it does... But one thing remains true, and that is that if we're going to push toward higher resolutions, we're going to need to something in the interim between where we're at facing technological limits that can't keep up with consumer demands otherwise. Even 6-7,000,000,000 transistor monsters can't handle 4K resolutions gracefully with the current model of frame syncing. That will be the case until we can get really drastically more powerful hardware out, possibly generations away (after all, using the current framerate target of 60fps and the current vsync technology model, we're looking at asking for an unrealistic 50%+ improvement in hardware assuming NO software advances that correspondingly create additional demands on the GPU, which is obviously not gonna happen. Being able to much more gracefully handle the situations where a game doesn't sync up to a very badly dated display output model would be fantastic. It would ease pressure on developers and make moving framerate targets viable (and not in the "well, people can just put up with it" way that products make it to market today). The worst thing about it is that it's proprietary. The sooner that changes, the better. While nVidia's marketshare has held above 65% for a very long time against strong price and performance competition, nobody likes having to use That One Company's Thing... The hell of it is of course they want (and reasonably speaking, have earned) compensation for actually bringing a potentially revolutionary display technology to market. But that could just as well kill it (for now - longer term, there's no way that companies, having seen a practical realization of a Very Good Idea are going to sit on their rear end and not try to make their own solution). To be clear, I don't care that nVidia did this - I care that anybody did this. I feel like that's the important thing. Agreed fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 01:43
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movax posted:loving nvidia...trying to install R331 drivers and it rendered my system completely unusable...can't uninstall drivers, can't reinstall drivers, can't boot normally; only boot mode that works is 640x480. This is pretty much what happened with my GTX 580 on 327.23. Drivers caused it to BSoD randomly, eventually got to the point where it would BSoD after logging in every time. Tried older drivers, same result. Even tried reformatting the drat Windows installation and using older drivers from there, same result still. It can only be used with the standard VGA drivers. My GTX 580 is practically unusable with no way to fix it, hence why I'm patiently waiting for the R9 290/290X or a price drop on the 780 to replace it. Thinking about going AMD this time though, because of that stellar experience. It did last me almost 3 years though, so I guess I can't really complain. 
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Oct 23, 2013 02:19
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veedubfreak posted:Just a gentle reminder, the r9 280x is a 7970. It even crossfires with the 7970. Remember this when making decisions. Which makes me wonder how many of their other mid-to-low range cards will be rebranded 7000 series GPUs, maybe just cherry-picked ones that are guaranteed to run at higher clocks with better stability. Like, will the 270x be a rebranded 7950 or perhaps a 7870 GHz edition? On a better note, got an e-mail today that my replacement 6970 shipped out, hopefully it'll be here by the weekend!
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Oct 23, 2013 02:22
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Ozz81 posted:Which makes me wonder how many of their other mid-to-low range cards will be rebranded 7000 series GPUs, maybe just cherry-picked ones that are guaranteed to run at higher clocks with better stability. Like, will the 270x be a rebranded 7950 or perhaps a 7870 GHz edition? We already know that every card but the 290 and 290x are rebranded 7xxx cards. The 270x is a rebranded 7870.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:29
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Ozz81 posted:Which makes me wonder how many of their other mid-to-low range cards will be rebranded 7000 series GPUs, maybe just cherry-picked ones that are guaranteed to run at higher clocks with better stability. Like, will the 270x be a rebranded 7950 or perhaps a 7870 GHz edition? It's been confirmed since like day one that that is in fact the case. I don't really care though, last AMD generation's fastest single GPU that cost like $500 or something when it was new is now only a chunk more expensive than Nvidia's entry level enthusiast GPU. It's filling in the huge price gap Nvidia's got going on between the 760 and 770, but matching the performance of the higher tier while being much closer in price to the lower tier. Edit: I guess what I'm saying is I'm super hyped about the 280x but don't really give a poo poo about the rest. Especially the 290x, everyone is so pumped about a titan killer but why? How many people are actually buying either of those things? Wowporn fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 02:31
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Rahu X posted:This is pretty much what happened with my GTX 580 on 327.23. I don't want to be one of those dicks from the GeForce forums that tells all the Fermi (GTX 400/500 and some OEM/laptop 600) users that the solution to most of your problems (that don't involve Battlefield 4, anyway) is spelled 314.22, but nVidia isn't giving me a lot of options. If you're wondering: 1) Pretty much no one knows why: If it was a card fault it should be showing up in games, or anywhere at random, but it mostly shows up in hardware acceleration when it thinks it can deal with lower power states (like browsers using Flash or some forms of the Windows desktop). If it was a driver fault nVidia should be getting their rear end in gear already. If it was an overclock fault, see above; the fix should still be in the driver, because asking people to use some random software package to restore reference clocks that could take a lot of time to dig up if you don't speak Wikipedia and Guru3D is outrageous (in the literal definition, that it merits outrage). Also this doesn't account for voltage problems on custom cards, and stock clock users have been hit too so that ain't it. If it was a hardware or software incompatibility it's too common to be some random thing from Western Goddamn Nowhere, so see above again. If it was a fault on some other hardware, given how many reports there have been, it's about the least likely coincidence that has ever happened. If it was a push to get people to buy newer products, well, your own opinion isn't exactly rare, and I'd say their PR department should be freaking out if I thought they had one worth the title. What's likely confounding fixing it, assuming due diligence and noblest intentions, is that it takes many hours - anywhere between a day and a half to a week - to actually show up, and the collapse is more or less complete in just a few minutes. Since most people shut down or sleep their systems at night I imagine a lot more people are affected but never have cause to notice. 2) That driver I linked says only up to Windows 8 but it works on 8.1 just fine. (This is how I'm running a 560 Ti right now.) 3) Other people are having similarly serious problems on cards that aren't Fermi-based (even on cards under the Greenlight programme), but it seems that unlike those cards the Fermis are hit comprehensively. At least we CAN fall back to 314.22. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 02:38
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R7-240 = 8570 R7-250 = 8670 R7-260X = 7790 R9-270X = 7870 R9-280X = 7970GE Both the 8570 and 8670 were the only actually new cards from the 8000 series. I don't know how well they actually perform, but I do believe the R7 250 should be around the 7730. I'm not too sure though.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:40
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Sir Unimaginative posted:I don't want to be one of those dicks from the GeForce forums that tells all the Fermi (GTX 400/500 and some OEM/laptop 600) users that the solution to most of your problems (that don't involve Battlefield 4, anyway) is spelled 314.22, but nVidia isn't giving me a lot of options. There is a small glimmer of light down this mile long tunnel finally, Nvidia has actually now acknowledged this problem and seems to have buckled down to try and fix it, who knows if or when but it's hope. They'll even pay all shipping costs for the people willing to send there problem cards in (not like Nvidia doesn't have closets full of old GTX460-560Ti's etc.). They will also soon be releasing a special driver that will help them in getting more information in trying to figure this thing out. https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/621899/geforce-drivers/desktop-internet-browser-freeze-or-tdr-thread-w-geforce-460-560-gpus/1 Im_Special fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 02:48
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My 570 is also unusable. It started with driver crashes then bsods and now I just get complete system lockups with no blue screen. 314.22 drivers haven't helped. This thing was rock solid since I got it at release until a few months ago.
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Oct 23, 2013 02:55
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Are you sure they stayed 314.22? The Windows driver management system can be hyperactive sometimes and may have put the newer drivers back in. If it did, or if switching it back doesn't work, turn off automatic driver downloads, clean out the newer nVidia display drivers (EDIT: And only the nVidia display drivers) with something like Driver Fusion, and try again, from Safe Mode if necessary. Also sometimes something bad happens to your card coincident with a change in your system and it's nothing's fault really. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 03:05
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