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Kid Gloves posted:Seems like you'd just want to, you know, prosecute the people responsible for the hacking instead of imposing restrictions on the press that haven't been necessary since the 15th century. Yeah, hacking is bad and all but I'm deeply loving skeptical about any politician-imposed control of the press. What parts of the royal charter in particular do you object to? Feel free to reply in the hackgate thread if you don't want to derail this one.
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 12:15 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 06:05 |
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If anyone had any doubt that "terrorism" was a meaningless word abused by governments: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/01/us-uk-nsa-idUSBRE9A013O20131101 quote:UK: Snowden reporter's partner involved in 'espionage' and 'terrorism'
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 13:07 |
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Great Britian is full of great ideas.
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 14:46 |
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You missed the money quote:quote:"Additionally the disclosure, or threat of disclosure, is designed to influence a government and is made for the purpose of promoting a political or ideological cause. This therefore falls within the definition of terrorism..."
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 15:41 |
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Elotana posted:You missed the money quote: So basically according to the UK doing investigative journalism as a way to influence policy changes is terrorism?
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 15:43 |
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It's not necessarily even just journalism, by my reading of the opinion. The problem alleged here is that it is an action that is intended to "influence a government and is made for the purpose of promoting a political or ideological cause." What political actions by citizens under a democracy wouldn't fall under that definition of terrorism, I wonder? Protesting? Criticizing the government? Voting? I'm not saying that the Uk government is going to criminalize these things, I'm just saying that their choice of rhetoric reveals a sniveling and deeply authoritarian bent.
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 15:58 |
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Italy was the only big name country in the Eurozone to not join the data mining band wagon: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2013/1102/Europe-spies-too-Leaked-documents-point-to-cooperative-surveillance-program quote:Citing a 2008 GCHQ country-by-country report, the Guardian said the British spies were particularly impressed with Germany's BND agency, which they said had "huge technological potential and good access to the heart of the Internet".
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 16:45 |
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etalian posted:So basically according to the UK doing investigative journalism as a way to influence policy changes is terrorism? As is all diplomacy and politics. Wait, I mean when you do it.
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 19:20 |
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SedanChair posted:As is all diplomacy and politics. Wait, I mean when you do it. It seems to me that lobbyists would also fall under the umbrella of "influencing government for political or ideological reasons." So yeah it's really the dumbest thing anyone could have said about terrorism.
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 20:06 |
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etalian posted:
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 20:12 |
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What were they thinking, not legal limits on the spying activities of intelligence agencies, who'd even think of such an travesty [/quote] I imagine the German BND will be in hot water soon given all the privacy protection laws.
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 20:31 |
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etalian posted:I imagine the German BND will be in hot water soon given all the privacy protection laws. In Germany, someone might even do jail time. Imagine that, a country where rich and/or powerful people might actually serve time, unlike the US where laws are basically bent nearly to their breaking point. While I'd never go as far as to say I'm happy, it's nice to confirm that, yes, mass surveillance is an issue affecting most of the developed world. Surprise! When spy agencies are granted or grant themselves power, they (gasp!) spy. Love Rat fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Nov 2, 2013 |
# ? Nov 2, 2013 21:12 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:That's really the same mindset we see right now. If we can place a camera in Merkel's bathroom, we absolutely have to place it because you know those sneaky huns would do it if they had the chance, and we cannot allow a bathroom-camera gap (it would be the end of our republic as we know it). NyTimes thinks the same way I do. quote:When Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, sat down with President Obama at the White House in April to discuss Syrian chemical weapons, Israeli-Palestinian peace talks and climate change, it was a cordial, routine exchange. Pretty good article that goes into a lot of specifics on NSA intel collection operations. Short answer is that they're reading everything all the time, pretty much. Looks like the spying may cost AT&T a merger: quote:
Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Nov 2, 2013 |
# ? Nov 2, 2013 22:08 |
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Love Rat posted:In Germany, someone might even do jail time. Imagine that, a country where rich and/or powerful people might actually serve time, unlike the US where laws are basically bent nearly to their breaking point. I like how Alexander is also selling the narrative about the Eurozone spying only being done in places such as "warzones" and in cases with full compliance with local laws.
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# ? Nov 2, 2013 22:12 |
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etalian posted:I like how Alexander is also selling the narrative about the Eurozone spying only being done in places such as "warzones" and in cases with full compliance with local laws. Hahaha, oh hell no quote:The agency’s Dishfire database — nothing happens without a code word at the N.S.A. — stores years of text messages from around the world, just in case. Its Tracfin collection accumulates gigabytes of credit card purchases. The fellow pretending to send a text message at an Internet cafe in Jordan may be using an N.S.A. technique code-named Polarbreeze to tap into nearby computers. The Russian businessman who is socially active on the web might just become food for Snacks, the acronym-mad agency’s Social Network Analysis Collaboration Knowledge Services, which figures out the personnel hierarchies of organizations from texts. They attempt to justify this somewhat by basically arguing that they need to know everything so they can pick out abnormalities, and so if we actually have an issue they will be able to jump right in without needing to understand the communications networks and interpersonal networks in use. quote:They studied Iranian air defense radar stations and recorded the travelers’ rich communications trail, including Iranian satellite coordinates collected by an N.S.A. program called Ghosthunter. The point was not so much to catch the Iranian leader’s words, but to gather the data for blanket eavesdropping on Iran in the event of a crisis. I mean think about it, we could be at war with Germany tomorrow! Do you really want to go into that unprepared? Why do you want America to fail? Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 2, 2013 |
# ? Nov 2, 2013 22:22 |
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Alan Dershowitz weighs in, continues to be Alan Dershowitz http://www.policymic.com/mobile/articles/51129/alan-dershowitz-goes-after-greenwald-calls-him-criminal-and-phony
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 05:08 |
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Tezzor posted:Alan Dershowitz weighs in, continues to be Alan Dershowitz http://www.policymic.com/mobile/articles/51129/alan-dershowitz-goes-after-greenwald-calls-him-criminal-and-phony If you ruffling the feathers of authoritarian israel worshipping neocons then you're doing something right. I liked this flameware letter from the article too: http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/02/email-exchange-with-alan-dershowitz.html
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# ? Nov 3, 2013 05:13 |
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http://www.cringely.com/2013/11/02/google-file-system-makes-nsas-hack-blatantly-illegal-know/quote:The latest Edward Snowden bombshell that the National Security Agency has been hacking foreign Google and Yahoo data centers is particularly disturbing. Plenty has been written about it so I normally wouldn’t comment except that the general press has, I think, too shallow an understanding of the technology involved. The hack is even more insidious than they know. More in original.
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# ? Nov 4, 2013 03:21 |
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The Washington Post just published a follow up to their most recent article.quote:How we know the NSA had access to internal Google and Yahoo cloud data There is a lot there so I am not going to quote the whole thing, but it is definitely worth your while to go through it all.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 00:06 |
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I don't have anything special to add, but thanks to everyone for getting this thread back up again. I'm hopeful that the tactical release of these docs gives the story more legs, though I don't know of any real case when a government has been forced to tear down a horrifying "security" apparatus without falling entirely.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 02:46 |
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The most amazing thing to me is how consistently all the news outlets seem to be working together to troll the poo poo out of the NSA, and there doesn't seem to be anything they can do about it. We consistently get about 1-2 articles per week, with one article detailing a vague release (last week - NSA has a tap at the SSE port for Google and Yahoo's internal clouds), the NSA apologists try to be vague and make statements along the lines of "We aren't breaking any laws! We aren't breaking into Google's servers! Only court-ordered taps!" Then, BAM! Today's WaPo report seems to me that it shows collected internal Google protocols and how they have active decryption of data inside Google's network, data that didn't leave the internal network. You saw the same thing with the phone tapping. Week 1, its that we are tapping phones in Europe (NSA: Just terrorists!). Week 2, Oh we also tapped Merkels phone. And every single release this entire summer has played out this way. Its really putting much needed egg on the face of the government, and Glenn Greenwald deserves a goddamn Pulitzer for getting this story.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 03:10 |
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FORUMS USER 1135 posted:The most amazing thing to me is how consistently all the news outlets seem to be working together to troll the poo poo out of the NSA, and there doesn't seem to be anything they can do about it. We consistently get about 1-2 articles per week, with one article detailing a vague release (last week - NSA has a tap at the SSE port for Google and Yahoo's internal clouds), the NSA apologists try to be vague and make statements along the lines of "We aren't breaking any laws! We aren't breaking into Google's servers! Only court-ordered taps!" Then, BAM! Today's WaPo report seems to me that it shows collected internal Google protocols and how they have active decryption of data inside Google's network, data that didn't leave the internal network. Even better I love how the leaks prove the NSA is actively trying to subvert judical and legislative oversight, they pretty much say outright they see foreign telecom fiber lines as a handy loophole to exploit: quote:Intercepting communications overseas has clear advantages for the NSA, with looser restrictions and less oversight. NSA documents about the effort refer directly to “full take,” “bulk access” and “high volume” operations on Yahoo and Google networks. Such large-scale collection of Internet content would be illegal in the United States, but the operations take place overseas, where the NSA is allowed to presume that anyone using a foreign data link is a foreigner.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 04:13 |
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So it came out recently that Brazil spied legally on a handful of diplomats on its own territory ten years ago, and the result has been predictable: everywhere you look from CNN to Reddit comments there are nationalists shouting their vindication from the rooftops, as though anybody ever denied that other countries spy or that this is in any way comparable to what the NSA is doing. I guess people like being told what they want to hear.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 14:37 |
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Levison/Zimmerman are kickstarting their new encryption protocol for emails. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ladar/lavabits-dark-mail-initiative I'm genuinely curious if this stays up. I'm sure the Kickstarter folks will at least get a threatening letter.
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# ? Nov 5, 2013 20:59 |
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The guy who made lavabit the encrypted email service snowden used closed up shop because of government pressure. The only real hope is for the telecos to lobby to have this stopped, because it costs them money.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 00:44 |
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Elotana posted:Levison/Zimmerman are kickstarting their new encryption protocol for emails. I am confused. They say they need $200k to cleanup the source code and release it as a f/oss project....but then they say backers will get binaries and the source only goes to $1k+ contributors?
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 03:17 |
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cr0y posted:I am confused. They say they need $200k to cleanup the source code and release it as a f/oss project....but then they say backers will get binaries and the source only goes to $1k+ contributors? I believe it's early access to source and binaries. The award packages are essentially symbolic. In any event, some security researchers claim Lavabit was not as secure as Ladar claimed it was.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 05:06 |
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Are there any congresspeople interested in Intelligence (agency) reform outside of winning political points? And, are there any groups one can join and participate in to help move along any policies about reforming our spying agencies?
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 19:46 |
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GrizzlyCow posted:Are there any congresspeople interested in Intelligence (agency) reform outside of winning political points? And, are there any groups one can join and participate in to help move along any policies about reforming our spying agencies? The ACLU and EFF spring immediately to mind. The motivations of Congressional officials are always suspect, but just a couple of months ago most Democrats and 40% of Republicans in the House voted to defund the NSA's collection programs before about half of these stories even came out, so there's definitely some will there. In other news: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/06/fbi-monitored-anti-war-website-in-error-documents?CMP=twt_fd&CMP=SOCxx2I2 quote:
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 19:59 |
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Tezzor posted:The ACLU and EFF spring immediately to mind. Unfortunately the ACLU at least wasn't necessarily as unified in their opposition to the surveillance state as we like to believe. nsfwcorp did a feature in their 5th print issue (called Nondisclosure Nation) on the subject of the reconstruction of the surveillance state by the Reagan administration and in particular on how Non-Disclosure Agreements became a little-reported but critical aspect of enforcing it. One of the most depressing aspects of that incredibly depressing article was that the ACLU legitimized and supported aspects of that expansion. There were a lot of examples, but here's one article that was quoted from the New York Times about a FOIA exemption used (as a popular example) by the Obama administration to conceal all details about the raid to kill Osama except that which it leaked itself for PR purposes being wholeheartedly defended by the 80's ACLU http://www.nytimes.com/1984/05/11/us/cia-and-aclu-support-curb-on-information.html quote:Mark Lynch, an A.C.L.U. lawyer, said current law allows the agency to keep secret all but the most innocuous portions of files on intelligence. This isn't to say that the EFF and ACLU aren't presently opposed to the surveillance state, but they are not immune to their interests being dictated by political point-scoring. You can't blindly trust their positions on anything, because no political organizations are entirely trustworthy.
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 20:54 |
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Tezzor posted:The ACLU and EFF spring immediately to mind. The motivations of Congressional officials are always suspect, but just a couple of months ago most Democrats and 40% of Republicans in the House voted to defund the NSA's collection programs before about half of these stories even came out, so there's definitely some will there. Tezzor posted:In other news:
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# ? Nov 6, 2013 22:32 |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/us/cia-is-said-to-pay-att-for-call-data.html?_r=0 Calling it now. Public outrage causes the NSA to lose power and the other 40+ alphabet agencies that do the same thing to gain power. Firmly looking for a third party that is not American at this point. quote:The N.S.A. is subject to court-imposed rules about the standard that must be met before its analysts may gain access to its database, which contains records from multiple providers. The C.I.A. appears to have a freer hand, and officials said it had submitted significantly more queries to AT&T for data. Watch my right hand...pay no attention to my left one. Sancho fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Nov 7, 2013 |
# ? Nov 7, 2013 14:58 |
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The former PM of France made the correct point the other day that you can collect all the data in the world (as the NSA seems to want to do), but without actual Humint you can forget being able to make use of any of that reliably. This is the same problem the CIA had during the Cold War.
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# ? Nov 7, 2013 16:16 |
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is the same problem the CIA had during the Cold War. They're still having this problem, too.
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# ? Nov 7, 2013 16:22 |
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Hey so it turns out the NSA is full of morons http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/08/net-us-usa-security-snowden-idUSBRE9A703020131108 Reuters posted:Snowden may have persuaded between 20 and 25 fellow workers at the NSA regional operations center in Hawaii to give him their logins and passwords by telling them they were needed for him to do his job as a computer systems administrator, a second source said.
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# ? Nov 8, 2013 19:59 |
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^^^Was going to post this as well, but Greenwald is commenting that it is, again, from internal anonymous sources. At the same time, sounds like something that would happen, a nuke codes being 00000000000000 kind of thing. In addition, I think these two articles, one in which the The Telegraph apes a government line about how the leaks could help pedophiles, and this Der Spiegel op-ed about how paranoia undermines democracy are relevant to the problems with mass surveillance.
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# ? Nov 8, 2013 21:09 |
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Sancho posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/us/cia-is-said-to-pay-att-for-call-data.html?_r=0
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# ? Nov 9, 2013 00:47 |
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I think he was saying the NSA gets the Alpha Protocol treatment and some other alphabet agency becomes the new all seeing eye; same poo poo with a thin veneer of legitimacy.
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# ? Nov 9, 2013 00:53 |
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GCHQ has apparently been injecting transparent proxies to serve malware to targets (and probably spy on users).quote:According to a new report by Der Spiegel, the British signals intelligence spy agency has again employed a “quantum insert” technique as a way to target employees of two companies that are GRX (Global Roaming Exchange) providers. So apparently there is an emplaced infrastructure to do MITM attacks, and it has been used in real-world settings to serve malware against selected targets. This has huge implications beyond the GRX's administrators being phished (and the GRX's likely being holed). That same infrastructure could be used to do things like MITM package management updates, or really anything else. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 12, 2013 |
# ? Nov 12, 2013 16:55 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 06:05 |
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Man, where's Eripsa? I remember him pushing the tech will set us free line.
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# ? Nov 12, 2013 17:03 |