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Amidiri posted:"There's going to be a revolution just like Les Miserables!" Yeah, this crossed my mind. It's going to get messy either way.
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Nov 13, 2013 14:28
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 12:09 |
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In their universe Les Miserables ended differently
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Nov 13, 2013 15:01
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Wait, are we sure we're in a third universe? Because in Universe Blue (1? Prime? I have no idea what we're using as a naming convention), Chen Lin's tools were in his shop, I thought. So, we're going back to our original universe, only to find that things have changed while we've been "gone". Alternatively, we're not hopping around universes, we're collapsing them onto each other, hence why the people we've violently murdered are having severe identity/existence issues.
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Nov 13, 2013 16:08
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Unless I missed something, they haven't said if the police ships are capable of going down to the surface. They probably aren't, though they should really have said that somewhere since you can't expect someone to know the different capabilities of your magic quantum ships without explaining it. That said, it doesn't explain why Booker doesn't go look for a different airship. Since there's no way that ship was the only one in Columbia. They obviously wanted to get dimension jumping into the plot, but there are much better ways they could of done that. Put Booker and Elizabeth in a situation where their only means of escape is through a tear. Right now its frustrating that our protagonists seem to be "solving" their problems in the dumbest way possible. It's also weird for as much as Elizabeth seems to care about helping people, she has no qualms about hopping into another world and frying the minds of countless individuals as a result. At least, I assume that is happening as a side effect of Elizabeth's powers. Otherwise everyone would be crazy all the time as a result of some distant dimension in which they died horrifically. Elizabeth's presence seems to make people aware of their alternate selves on a subconscious level if she interacted with them. VVV I'm not sure how collapsing universes together is any better than just hopping into different ones, but then it's hard to say when there is no clear logic behind how this stuff works. Either way, if they were collapsing one reality into another I'd think there would be more evidence of it. As an example, Fink in the Blue universe knew Booker and was trying to cut a deal with him. Fink in the Red universe didn't recognize him, and was very focused on hunting down the False Shepard. He's very different in the two worlds, which to me suggests they are distinct. I think Elizabeth's presence is the reason people that died in another universe are having their minds frieds, but I suppose it is reasonable that she wouldn't make that connection herself. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 16:35
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Internet Kraken posted:It's also weird for as much as Elizabeth seems to care about helping people, she has no qualms about hopping into another world and frying the minds of countless individuals as a result. At least, I assume that is happening as a side effect of Elizabeth's powers. Otherwise everyone would be crazy all the time as a result of some distant dimension in which they died horrifically. Elizabeth's presence seems to make people aware of their alternate selves on a subconscious level if she interacted with them. Maybe like Veyrall mentioned above, we're only collapsing/merging certain universes. Or by virtue of going through the tear to another universe, only those two are affected. I don't think it's that weird for Elizabeth to hop around into different tears given her "caring" nature. Given that those individuals were killed in blue Columbia anyway, them having their minds fried/altered in a different universe is the same thing anyway. I do think it's a bit silly that instead of trying to solve the problem another way, they tear-hop twice. I do think plotwise it would have been less jarring if they had to escape into a tear, and then tried to find/fight their way back to the original. Anyway, I'm curious to see if they actually hopped back to the original universe instead of a third one.
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Nov 13, 2013 17:04
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I think I'm starting to dislike Elizabeth as a result of the creators trying to make me like Elizabeth. Nice as the song was, Booker just killed two (probably) starving muggers, and has up to this point killed a high school yearbook's worth of people. Guitar solo into disney princess scene seems kind of crazy. Like, actual straitjacket insane. Also, Sundowner, I had a question about the plot and I was wondering if there was a way I could message you to ask? I don't trust the internet to not spoil me on thing B while I'm trying to figure out thing A. EDIT: VV Thank you, sent the question. Gensuki fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 22:10
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I don't have PMs or anything but you could shoot an email the sundownerlp at gmail, or if you're an internet socialite my twitter is SundownerLP (not to shamelessly plug my self or anything).
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Nov 13, 2013 22:27
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Gensuki posted:I think I'm starting to dislike Elizabeth as a result of the creators trying to make me like Elizabeth. Aww, you poor disheveled child! Let me grab this orange that probably already belongs to you, and hand it to you. Now, back under the stairs you go, we're done with this character growth segment. Yeah, Elizabeth is kind of starting to grate on me as well.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:00
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I honestly never liked Elizabeth, despite liking the game itself quite a bit. I don't hate her but she's far from being my favorite character. She has her moments but her personality is really grating a lot of the time, and somewhat inconsistent, particularly regarding how sheltered she is.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:32
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I've been playing along with the LP and I find Elizabeth is starting to grate on me, but only when I'm not in control of the game. This is one of those things most people just don't notice when they're actually playing, they're so focused on trying to keep themselves alive or get to the next checkpoint that it sort of has the intended effect of Elizabeth being a fairly-charismatic NPC that you don't have to coddle in combat. In fact, now that I think about it, the primary reason I like Elizabeth when I'm playing the game and dislike her when I'm watching the game is because they've gone to pretty great lengths to keep her out of the way whenever you'd expect an NPC like her would make trouble. That goes a long way into positively thinking about her, and all the stuff you can stop and think about during an LP just blends together (all her standing around, the naive side-dialogue) and it's moments like the guitar that are memorable by being different. Watching it without the personal investment of the last "intense combat fighting" scene and... yeah, it makes no sense to start singing an old slave hymn, hand a kid an orange that isn't even yours, and walk off.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:41
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Captain Bravo posted:Aww, you poor disheveled child! Let me grab this orange that probably already belongs to you, and hand it to you. Now, back under the stairs you go, we're done with this character growth segment. In all likelihood the kid was trying to steal the fruit, which is why he booked it under the stairs in the first place. And even if that's not the case, Elizabeth might've thought it was. And he stays under there of his own accord, not because Elizabeth banished him there. She can't really be blamed for any of that.
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Nov 14, 2013 02:10
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Huh. I just read that the voice actor for Booker actually played the guitar in that rendition of Will the Circle Be Unbroken.
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Nov 14, 2013 03:12
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Petr posted:Huh. I just read that the voice actor for Booker actually played the guitar in that rendition of Will the Circle Be Unbroken. Yes, I believe Troy Baker was once an aspiring musician, he can sing too. That's what I've heard anyways.
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Nov 14, 2013 03:19
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Yeah before Troy Baker was a voice actor he was the lead singer and guitarist for an indie rock band. I wouldn't be surprised if that scene existed solely because he wanted an excuse to play some music for the game.
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Nov 14, 2013 03:21
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Gensuki posted:Booker just killed two (probably) starving muggers... In interest of fairness, pretty sure those guys open fire no matter what you do, and Booker doesn't seem the type to react kindly to having guns shoved in his face either way. Still, I have to agree it kinda feels like they tried a little too hard with making Elizabeth likeable and it ends up like Levine grabbing you by the collar and telling you what to feel about her.
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Nov 14, 2013 04:05
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Maybe if all you dummies noticed the bartender pulls out a shotgun when you get anywhere near stuff you shouldn't be touching, you wouldn't have had to massacre the entirety of the upstairs area before going down to listen to a Pretty Good easter egg scene!  I dunno, I didn't mind Elizabeth and I feel like people's opinions are getting blown out of proportion here. When you're actually playing the game she is very non-intrusive when she needs to stay out of your way, and useful when she can be. That's all I really ask for in a video game companion!
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Nov 14, 2013 04:22
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Penakoto posted:Yes, I believe Troy Baker was once an aspiring musician, he can sing too. That's what I've heard anyways. There's a clip of a mo-capping session for the climactic scene in the Last of Us where they surprise him by turning it in to a musical. He's pretty good.
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Nov 14, 2013 04:30
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Podima posted:I dunno, I didn't mind Elizabeth and I feel like people's opinions are getting blown out of proportion here. When you're actually playing the game she is very non-intrusive when she needs to stay out of your way, and useful when she can be. That's all I really ask for in a video game companion! She's fine from a gameplay standpoint, if a bit too useful (the difficulty drops pretty drastically when you've got her), I just don't like her as a character at all, I don't get why she's so popular and put on a pedestal. Overrated isn't a term I use often, and it sums up my feelings towards Elizabeth perfectly. Penakoto fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 04:34
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I think the reason why people love Elizabeth so much is that they still remember Daikatana. Sundowner, thank you for doing an lp of this game. I missed this generation of consoles and always wanted to see it in action.
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Nov 14, 2013 06:01
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Just a reminder that for a child raised without human contact (at least since she can remember) Elizabeth is doing great.
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Nov 14, 2013 06:36
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Arglebargle III posted:Just a reminder that for a child raised without human contact (at least since she can remember) Elizabeth is doing great. Well, she at least had seen some movies, or at least parts of them, so I wouldn't expect her to be more out of touch with reality than the average basement dweller.
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Nov 14, 2013 06:48
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I don't mind Elizabeth- any problems we've seen so far like that basement scene seems just like characterization missteps. For me, the cracks that are starting to appear are those in the form of the dimensions/universes they're opening up. Earlier, someone mentioned the Daisy in this universe not caring about Chen Lin or any bargains she made with Booker since she presumably never made the bargain in the first place (poo poo, was Booker even born in this universe at all?), so why does Booker keep thinking she'll honour the promise he heard?
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Nov 14, 2013 07:10
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The game has seemed pretty focused until now. Is this the point people consider as where the game kind of goes off the rails, or is it later?
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Nov 14, 2013 07:25
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Wild speculation: I'm starting to think that at the end we'll reach a point where Booker will jump back to the start of the game. Given that some tears lead to another time, he may well be stuck in a stable loop. I kind of doubt they'd do this from an endgame gameplay standpoint (if this is the case, I'd expect something more like Looper), but it would be pretty cool if that actually happened. Also, it would explain the Luteces and the R & G Are Dead reference to some extent. Actually, that raises another question: Are the anachronisms because the alternate dimensions are simply mis-aligned sidewise in time, or are they actually capable of jumping to different time points in the same dimension? It would seem to be the former, although it could be the case that it ends up not being important (i.e. you can jump to the 'same' dimension, but it changes once you enter and therefore isn't really the same). Kangra fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 07:34
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It depends on your perspective. In some ways the game is starting to get on the rails.
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Nov 14, 2013 07:50
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Everything is still spoilers! I love this drat game. Well, not that much, but still, it's got that sort of  quality to it.
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Nov 14, 2013 07:52
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Well I don't know what everyone's alluding to (which is good), but I like Elizabeth so far, frankly. I think she's decently-well-characterized, not completely galactically stupid, and well animated and voiced. I really can't ask for much more than that.
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Nov 14, 2013 08:09
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Ugh yes everything is spoilers. Now that the insanity is starting in earnest I want to talk about it but I can't. In other news, I'm ready to admit that I'm racist against quanta.
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Nov 14, 2013 09:01
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CommissarMega posted:I don't mind Elizabeth- any problems we've seen so far like that basement scene seems just like characterization missteps. For me, the cracks that are starting to appear are those in the form of the dimensions/universes they're opening up. Earlier, someone mentioned the Daisy in this universe not caring about Chen Lin or any bargains she made with Booker since she presumably never made the bargain in the first place (poo poo, was Booker even born in this universe at all?), so why does Booker keep thinking she'll honour the promise he heard? Booker DeWitt posted:drat! We didn't think this through all the way!
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Nov 14, 2013 13:22
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GenHavoc posted:[*]What the hell does Daisy mean by having a "mouth"? What does a fire need a mouth for? It eats just fine without one. The "fire" she's talking about is the resentment of Columbias lower class. She's saying that she intends to become the voice of all that brooding hatred.
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Nov 14, 2013 16:09
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Podima posted:Maybe if all you dummies noticed the bartender pulls out a shotgun when you get anywhere near stuff you shouldn't be touching, you wouldn't have had to massacre the entirety of the upstairs area before going down to listen to a Pretty Good easter egg scene! loving this. Just because Sundowner took us directly to that sequence in an LP with acknowledged time constraints doesn't mean all players saw that hidden scene on the first playthrough, or ran through the story's events at the same pace. Veyrall posted:
Yeah, we are definitely NOT hopping universes, and the game makes this pretty obvious in terms of both visual and narrative cues. Elizabeth and Booker may be naive about their circumstances (that's the fun part!) but based on the evidence we are given she is absolutely smashing dimensions together. BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Nov 15, 2013 |
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Nov 15, 2013 03:28
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what. Really? That was not obvious to me at all. 
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Nov 15, 2013 03:46
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second-hand smegma posted:Yeah, we are definitely NOT hopping universes, and the game makes this pretty obvious in terms of both visual and narrative cues. Elizabeth and Booker may be naive about their circumstances (that's the fun part!) but based on the evidence we are given she is absolutely smashing dimensions together. The game/narrative hasn't been explicit about what Elizabeth is doing yet, probably best not to speak so definitively about something that has yet to be addressed. So far they're taking leaps of faith and following their noses - neither Elizabeth or Booker really know what they're doing beyond "this seems to open in to a new place that is not this place".
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Nov 15, 2013 04:05
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Sundowner posted:The game/narrative hasn't been explicit about what Elizabeth is doing yet, probably best not to speak so definitively about something that has yet to be addressed. So far they're taking leaps of faith and following their noses - neither Elizabeth or Booker really know what they're doing beyond "this seems to open in to a new place that is not this place". Oh yeah, no problem. I'm just referencing how when it says 'Go Through The Tear' they don't actually go through it at all, the tear just expands and merges with the world around them, and people who were killed in the immediate vicinity are having trouble with what looks to be 2 personalities smashed together. I definitely agree that Booker and Elizabeth are playing fast and loose with this stuff without seemimg to contemplate the consequences. BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Nov 15, 2013 |
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Nov 15, 2013 04:27
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Naive readers should be aware that there are some people on the internet who are convinced that they know what's going on in Bioshock Infinite and are wrong. Best to just hold off judgement because this is supposed to be a mystery and random posters may offer more obfuscation than elucidation.
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Nov 15, 2013 10:11
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I kinda like it. I'm lost-er now than I was before. It's amazing. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how we can have seen THIS MUCH of the game and yet everything is STILL spoilers. The longer it goes on the more my eyebrow raises, but you guys seem really convinced, and you would know better than I. I'm expecting some serious poo poo going down all over the place.
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Nov 15, 2013 11:38
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I'm pretty sure that the end credits will be rolling, and I'd still have no clear idea about anything.
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Nov 16, 2013 07:08
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Miz Kriss posted:I'm pretty sure that the end credits will be rolling, and I'd still have no clear idea about anything. That's when the arguing starts.
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Nov 16, 2013 10:02
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Miz Kriss posted:I'm pretty sure that the end credits will be rolling, and I'd still have no clear idea about anything. The end credits will be rolling, and still everything will be a spoiler.
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Nov 16, 2013 18:45
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I wish you'd run around the police station a little bit more. I'm curious if the cops managed to shoot the other Vox lieutenants in this Columbia.
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Nov 16, 2013 22:37
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