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Fuego Fish posted:A better example might be the first season of Parks & Rec, as compared to every other season. Yeah, that's what "Early Installment Weirdness" is supposed to mean, but Tropers can't keep their own tropes straight 90% of the time.
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Nov 27, 2013 02:33
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TV Tropes asks the hard questions. How do you know if you're a bad writer? quote:I don't know if it's my own personal bias speaking here, but whenever I look at my stuff (here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13417029080A95476900&page=1#4 and here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13427849460A00880100&page=1#2 if anyone wants to take a look). I think it's good, but then I get self-doubt and wonder, "what if it's really bad?" Those links link to 'cloned Che Guevara writes a journal' and something to do with Arabian Nights. quote:Eh, Twilight is thrown around a lot as terrible, but the thing is that the only reason it has such a huge hate-dom is because it's so popular. And the reason it got so popular in the first place is that a lot of people think it's awesome. I see what you mean about wanting fans to outweigh haters, but any known writer will always have some of both. quote:To be honest, the willingness of people in this thread to blow off criticism as just "eh, hipsters/literati" really, really bothers me. quote:The only solid indicator of bad writing is technical quality: correct use of language and textual fom. Everything else is a matter of style and audience preference. How do you write Female on Male rape?  NO quote:While I'm not going to write this right now. I will probably consider doing this after my writing skills isn't entirely awful. I just want to know how would you write a rape scene whom the victim is usually seen as not being one? quote:I want the scene to be as horrific as possible.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:18
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Tropers complaining about writing boring stuff reminds me of "artists" who don't want to learn the basics, and just skip to painting masterpieces. I'm not a big fan of certain art movements like performance art, or the guy who canned his own poo poo, but these are still important things to understand, not because they are ways to be an artist, but because they show how to "think" like an artist. You can have an image in your head, but if you don't know your basic loving rules, how can you expect to create something? If a troper was an artist, they'd be the type who didn't want to learn anything, and their goals in the art circle would be to draw porn and smut.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:28
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Djeser posted:TV Tropes asks the hard questions. Wait, is this the guy who's writing the dieselpunk thing where Che Guevara is black and Evita is married to the president of Honduras instead of Argentina? Because if it is, that chucklefuck's been working on his lovely story for six or seven years now. And I have an answer for him: yes, you're a bad writer. You're a horrible writer. Find another loving hobby.
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Nov 27, 2013 03:31
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Arcsquad12 posted:Tropers complaining about writing boring stuff reminds me of "artists" who don't want to learn the basics, and just skip to painting masterpieces. I'm not a big fan of certain art movements like performance art, or the guy who canned his own poo poo, but these are still important things to understand, not because they are ways to be an artist, but because they show how to "think" like an artist. You can have an image in your head, but if you don't know your basic loving rules, how can you expect to create something? Tropers are all basically writer equivalents of Tim Buckley dropping out of art class because he didn't want to do charcoal poo poo, he just wanted to learn to draw comics like Stan Lee! 
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Nov 27, 2013 03:56
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Well that explains Tim Buckleys poo poo art. I loving love working with charcoal.
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Nov 27, 2013 04:03
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Djeser posted:
The OP,Pink Heart Chainsaw, is a fan on what tropers call "gorn". Quote "I've always been a fan of visceral combat".  What a nice troper. Gorn "Gorn shows gore and blood, not to frighten or upset, but to excite and thrill." "Not to be confused with the Star Trek reptilian alien race the Gorn Hegemony, or the Monty Python's Flying Circus sketch." 
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Nov 27, 2013 06:36
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Someone asking about writing a overly idealised utopia. quote:Gyra Solune Utopias have been done before. In a situation like this, the utopia either is a front for something pretty hosed up or it has really lovely slums where the better off people don't even care about what's going on. A half-decent writer can pull it off with no problems but this is something that Gyra Solune can't do. quote:Gyra Solune Thing is, tropers aren't even half-decent writers. This also sounds suspiciously like an anime that actually exists. EDIT: Dangan Ronpa tears. quote:A meta example for those who can only access the game via the Let's Play on Something Awful is the paywalls that pop up periodically on the site, preventing anyone who won't shell out ten bucks from reading the drat thing. Especially since it is completely unadvertised, so no planning ahead, there is never a schedule for how long they're supposed to last, and some have even claimed that the paywalls have increased in frequency and length ever since the popularity of the playthroughs of this game and its sequel. At least this one is on LPArchive now. quote:Nightmare Fuel: Something Awful Are goons honored that they have a nightmare fuel page? Testekill fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 06:59
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Testekill posted:Are goons honored that they have a nightmare fuel page? Not really, since we've previously established that to get a nightmare fuel page, all you need to do is make a funny face in something tropers masturbate to.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:11
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quote:A meta example for those who can only access the game via the Let's Play on Something Awful is the paywalls that pop up periodically on the site, preventing anyone who won't shell out ten bucks from reading the drat thing. Especially since it is completely unadvertised, so no planning ahead, there is never a schedule for how long they're supposed to last, and some have even claimed that the paywalls have increased in frequency and length ever since the popularity of the playthroughs of this game and its sequel. At least this one is on LPArchive now. I knew that Tropers were a huge chunk of people crying about the paywall. If you missed all the fun Youtube has some pretty good summaries here and here.
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Nov 27, 2013 08:50
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Razorwired posted:I knew that Tropers were a huge chunk of people crying about the paywall. If you missed all the fun Youtube has some pretty good summaries here and here. Okay, I must be missing something here by not being a psychotic Weeaboo, but what the gently caress is Dangan Ronpa and why the hell is it such a big deal for nutjobs on TvTropes and Tumblr?
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Nov 27, 2013 09:07
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Arcsquad12 posted:Okay, I must be missing something here by not being a psychotic Weeaboo, but what the gently caress is Dangan Ronpa and why the hell is it such a big deal for nutjobs on TvTropes and Tumblr? It's an anime video game that hasn't been officially translated into English, so their only access to it is through someone Let's Playing it here and translating it as he goes. When the paywall goes up, they can't read the Let's Play. This is a big deal because they really like their anime video games.
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Nov 27, 2013 09:09
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Testekill posted:Someone asking about writing a overly idealised utopia. Look at it: battling Utopias, weird girl clone thing that never ages, gets increasingly depraved. Goddamn right that's cribbed from animes. The most fascinating fiction comes when you have a protagonist doing utterly normal, believable things, before something intriguing happens. How our protagonist deals with it is what makes the story work.
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Nov 27, 2013 09:42
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Khazar-khum posted:Look at it: battling Utopias, weird girl clone thing that never ages, gets increasingly depraved. Goddamn right that's cribbed from animes. Yeah, I just can't put my finger on it. I've seen a synopsis that is quite similar to it but I'm drawing a blank. But yeah you're right. Quite often a memorable character is someone normal that is shoved into a situation that is out of their depth and they have to adapt to it. To just flat out start with the character being a genetic experiment leads to not a lot of believable conflict and character evolution unless they go the "I want to be a real boy/girl" route.
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Nov 27, 2013 10:11
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Fuego Fish posted:That's not really a substantial difference, though. That's more the side-effects of chemotherapy. So really it fits in perfectly well with the tone of the show, especially as the loss of the hair is part of the start of the transformation from regular high school science teacher into remorseless monster. I think the first Season of Star Trek: The Next Generation fits as well.
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Nov 27, 2013 10:24
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It's an anime video game that hasn't been officially translated into English, so their only access to it is through someone Let's Playing it here and translating it as he goes. When the paywall goes up, they can't read the Let's Play. This is a big deal because they really like their anime video games. The best part is that there's even a perfectly functional, OP-sanctioned mirror of the LP on Tumblr that they refuse to use so they can call Slowbeef the spawn of Satan some more.
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Nov 27, 2013 10:25
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alcharagia posted:The best part is that there's even a perfectly functional, OP-sanctioned mirror of the LP on Tumblr that they refuse to use so they can call Slowbeef the spawn of Satan some more. Let's face it, Slowbeef probably loves the fact that a bunch of dweebs think that he's Satan just because they can't read a thread about an anime game and are too lazy to look at the Tumblr. I know I would certainly love it. EDIT: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/DarkLadyCelebrian I have a feeling that this chick never shuts the gently caress up. Just looking at her troper page makes her come off as more obnoxious then the trainload of teenagers that I travelled with this afternoon. Testekill fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 10:28
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Pretty sure she's not around any more. But yeah, she was pretty emblematic of the whole Troper thing.
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Nov 27, 2013 11:04
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DStecks posted:Not really, since we've previously established that to get a nightmare fuel page, all you need to do is make a funny face in something tropers masturbate to. The problem with Nightmare Fuel is that it's highly subjective: the trope's defined as things that are not intentionally creepy that turn out creepy, contrast High Octane where creepy is definitely intended. Either tropers are the most easily-scared people ever, or they're misinterpreting very mild unease with a much stronger emotion, Tumblrteen trigger style. Back when I would read tvtropes to pass the time at work before its horrible community was discovered, I discovered that some of them talked about the creepy factor of television bumpers. Those short 5-second clips that you find at the end of television shows that tell you who made it. They compose some videos full of these "scary logos" and talk about how 2spooky they are. Honestly I recall a couple of logos scaring me as a small child (these two), because they were loud and bombastic and I was a particularly easy to scare child, but the level of sperg on youtube about these logos is amazing.
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Nov 27, 2013 13:22
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"What tropes do you want to avert or subvert in your work?"quote:Which setting trope describes the future as a horrifying, soulless dystopia? I'm averting that one in my Cataclysm stories. I'll be giving my readers something to look forward to.  quote:I have apparently subverted a Tsundere-type character by making her 100% jerk. quote:The Complainer is Always Wrong - subverted. The complaints are legitimate.
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Nov 28, 2013 05:10
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Djeser posted:"My anime doesn't want to gently caress me, she's just an rear end in a top hat. Trope subverted!" The tsundere is such a concrete archetype that if it's a heavily anime-influenced work, that could be a legit subversion. It's like Dr. House, you expect him to actually be a kind, decent person somewhere on the inside, but no, he's just a loving rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 28, 2013 05:31
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Djeser posted:"Someone complains. Trope subverted!" Well if they weren't legitimate they could be subverting Jerkass Has A Point. 
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Nov 28, 2013 05:42
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I think Dr. Brinner, Ghost Psychiatrist might be my new favorite works page. For those who don't bother with troper injokes, the 'joke' here is meant to be that the thing they're categorizing and labeling something that doesn't even exist outside the labels and categories. The real joke is that's what the whole site is evolving towards.
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Nov 28, 2013 09:29
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Djeser posted:The word he's looking for is dystopia, which he knows because he used it. 
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Nov 28, 2013 10:00
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ThirdEmperor posted:I think Dr. Brinner, Ghost Psychiatrist might be my new favorite works page. The real real joke is that they love making these trope pages for things that don't actually exist. See: Inspector Spacetime, a joke about Doctor Who from Community. They have made a list of all the episodes over 33 seasons of a show that existed for a few jokes about British TV. They have fake trivia about a fake show. In fact, why don't I just copy the list of what they do have? quote:We don't have an article named Analysis/InspectorSpacetime. We do, however have: Sham bam bamina! posted:The word he's looking for is dystopia, but the TV Trope he's looking for is Crapsack World.
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Nov 28, 2013 13:32
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Nanowrimo Not enough Nanowrimo in this thread yet. nanowrimo winner posted:The words have lost all meaning and are beginning to swim before my eyes. I look and feel insane.  writer posted:And now I capped my story off at 75322 words. I don't really feel like it needs more. *Maybe* a more proper epilogue, but the way it ends now is pretty good in itself. desperate writer posted:I've resorted to sheer bullshit to get my word count up. Circular conversations that could be summed up in 30 seconds but are extended to 3000, etc. The story is nowhere near done, but I'll bother about that later. 42k just now so I'm on target.  Finished writer posted:64908 words! It rambles a lot and the ending is a little sudden, but it's an actual completed novel! Kinda on the fence on whether to sit on it for a while, or to just publish it on my site. This is apparently her site. I haven't had time to read through it yet. Brilliant but lazy writer posted:Started this month with ambitious aspirations, but then life happened. Ended up at about only 20k words. Tvtropes posted:You know, I originally tried rambling, but then most ramblings turned out to be kind of character development and foreshadowing, making them more like meaningful ramblings. That and I suck at dialogue. Most of it is basically exposition and flavor text to make the exposition a bit more logical, which is why I mostly put more emphasis on descriptive writing, which always turns out to be pretty long pieces of text. And no, I do not do these things on purpose.
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Nov 28, 2013 13:41
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Darth TNT posted:Yes, over 50.000 words! It's novel so that's bragging rights right? dominaurbana posted:My name is Adam Anders. My mother is Sophia Powers Anders, and my father Truman Anders. We are wealthy, Caucasian, and have few family members. Wow, what a cool opening to her novel!
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Nov 28, 2013 14:23
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So I'm chilling out at my computer and listening to my music when I decided to look through some musicians and music related pages. Pixies quote:Despite the name, there is no Manic Pixie Dream Girl in the band, though Kim Deal's fans may beg to differ. Joey found the word in a dictionary, and they liked it enough to use it as a band name. Fucks sake. Pixies have been a thing in all forms of European Mythology for about 2000 years before that stupid trope was coined. Okay, how about Kim Deal not being in the reformed Pixies? quote:The Band Minus the Face: Kim Deal officially left the band in 2013, to concentrate on The Breeders' anniversary tour for Last Splash. Notably, this time it was done with much less acrimony, with Lovering mentioning in an interview that the position is always open for her to return, and the band remained officially composed of Francis, Lovering and Santiago, with Kim Shattuck (of The Muffs) being only a touring bassist instead of an official member. Most musicians would say that Black Francis was the face of the Pixies. Kim Deal might have been a good bassist but she was a pretty average vocalist. Now Black Francis being the face is more because he was a bit of an egomaniac which led to the band disbanding originally. Other than that, it's the usual overanalysis of lyrics or pidgeon holing tropes. Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly Okay, a really stupid loving name for what should be called genre crossing. quote:A subtrope of this is "Ethnic Punk": You mean punk music played by persons of Celtic descent? If they said that they took Celtic influences and combined them with punk music than that would be alright. But no, it's just like "Well, these bands have band members of Celtic descent. We could talk about how their background influenced their music but gently caress that," quote:The Clash were punk/everything else, at least on their later albums. So you don't feel like touching upon their rap, Jamaican or funk influences? Sure they bring it up on their band page, but do you want to know what they don't bring up on their page? Their lead singer tragically passing away 11 years ago. quote:Streetlight Manifesto mix ska, punk, acoustic, big band, funk and hardcore. Fans of Streetlight Manifesto, and frontman Tomas Kalnoky's side project Bandits of the Acoustic Revolution (another genre-splicer, fusing acoustic, ska and Middle-Eastern influences), sometimes refer to this as "the fourth wave of ska". Czechslovakia and Greece aren't Middle-Eastern you stupid fucks. Jesus Christ, I have A Call to Arms playing right now and it's clearly Eastern European influenced. Do you want to know how I know this? I actually know people from Eastern Europe and I've heard enough of their music to tell. They do surprisingly have a page for The Pogues. quote:The Pogues were, and occasionally still are, a Celtic Punk band from London, formed as Pogue Mahone in 1982. After landing several hits in The Eighties and early Nineties, they lost lead singer/songwriter Shane MacGowan to personal issues in 1991, and after two more albums the band called it quits in 1996. The band reformed in 2001 and has gone on several tours, but have no plans to record any new material. That's their entire biography before they get into the tropes and their discography. A completely forgotten child musician called Nikki Webster has a longer biography and I'd say just because she attempted to shed her child friendly image with an overly sexualised one which failed completely.
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Nov 28, 2013 16:01
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Darth TNT posted:Nanowrimo Every year someone tries to explain that Nanowrimo is a good thing because it gets people in the habit of writing and the point isn't to make anything good but rather just to set a goal and reach it. Those people are wrong, look at this, look at this stupid poo poo.
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Nov 28, 2013 17:22
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The F Plus NaNoWriMo episode almost killed me, it was so funny. And yet, the chucklefucks whose poo poo they read were not as self-importantly stupid as Troper NaNoWriMo.
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Nov 28, 2013 18:06
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Testekill posted:
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Nov 28, 2013 18:08
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Every year someone tries to explain that Nanowrimo is a good thing because it gets people in the habit of writing and the point isn't to make anything good but rather just to set a goal and reach it. The thing about NaNoWriMo is that "try to write a novel in a month" isn't a terrible idea if you look at it reasonably and realize you're writing a draft of a novel in a month, and that you'll naturally revise it later to make it, y'know, good. But NaNoWriMo has a whopping two standards: 1) 50,000 words 2) in one month Which appeals to tropers'  tendencies. What those 50,000 words are is less important than that there are 50,000 words. It's the same logic that dictates that including certain tropes makes something inherently good. They've got the what but not the why, so they throw in stuff they know is unimportant because they've got to hit that word count. It's the equivalent of changing periods to 14-point font to pad a college essay.
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Nov 28, 2013 18:08
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Blastoise posted:Wow, what a cool opening to her novel! It looks like an honest one, though.
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Nov 28, 2013 18:21
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CoolZidane posted:d. They've got the what but not the why, so they throw in stuff they know is unimportant because they've got to hit that word count. It's the equivalent of changing periods to 14-point font to pad a college essay. Was it the anime club "novel" that had the full lyrics to "froggy goes a-courtin'" in there to get a little bit closer to 50k?
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Nov 28, 2013 18:55
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Was it the anime club "novel" that had the full lyrics to "froggy goes a-courtin'" in there to get a little bit closer to 50k? Correct.
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Nov 28, 2013 19:21
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quote:nanowrimo winner posted: Finally, someone who feels the same way as I do when I have to slog through this dreck. My sister gets involved in this. As a real struggling writer (who actually studied how to write, is constantly trying to fix my work so it can look like something, and am trying to get published), I am ashamed for both of us.
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Nov 28, 2013 20:01
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quote:Blue Ninja, bear in mind you need to validate just before December 1st for it to count I hope Blue Ninja remembers to validate in time or else all that effort to write a story will have been a COMPLETE WASTE. Actually, I hope they forget, so we can see if they're really upset that they didn't get their internet points vs. actually completing a story of some form or another. Oh well, there's always next year. No sense writing in December, like an idiot. It's National Novel Writing Month not "write like it's your job and you have to do it every day, who the gently caress lives like that?"
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Nov 28, 2013 21:11
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I thought NaNoWriMo people were just making GBS threads out 50k words so they could say "Well, you know, I'm also an author " when they met someone who was trying to get published/had a job writing/had a regular place where they presented things.
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Nov 28, 2013 21:25
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Razorwired posted:I thought NaNoWriMo people were just making GBS threads out 50k words so they could say "Well, you know, I'm also an author NaNoWriMo was started as a way for struggling writers to do good on their projects by making it a community thing. You'd have encouragement from your peers, a tangible goal, and it was all done at the rear end-end of the year where it's cold and miserable and nobody wants to do anything. Of course because it was something you could "win", that meant that certain people started doing their best to beat everyone else, rather than being friendly and helpful about it. To them it was less about having motivation and more about being able to boast smugly. That's not everyone, however, there are people who still do NaNo every year with the intent of actually being a positive member of the community. But once the tropers got their greasy hooks in, well. Tropers might seem amazingly productive insofar as they can churn out 50,000+ words in 30 days, but you have to remember they're not really writing. There's no planned narrative, there's no definite resolution in mind, and half the time they have no solid characterization going on either. They just sit down and type and type, meaningless words falling out of their skull until the deadline looms and they freak out trying to think of an ending. If I just sat down and hammered the keyboard with only a vague idea propelling me forward, I could probably do 50,000 words in a single day. But every single last one of those words would be poo poo and I'd be a terrible person for doing it.
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Nov 28, 2013 21:34
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Razorwired posted:I thought NaNoWriMo people were just making GBS threads out 50k words so they could say "Well, you know, I'm also an author "Cool! I'd love to read what you've written." "NO IT'S NOT FINISHED!"
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Nov 28, 2013 21:36
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