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Aurain posted:http://www.edge-online.com/features/interview-alex-garland-part-two/ That's actually what snapped everything in place for me in regards to Ninja Theory wanting to make the next God of War-ish franchise because it's almost exactly what Kratos did in the first game to get a key from a sea captain. Suddenly their ideas made sense they were just trying to capture the God of War flame and never got the gameplay or the story up to snuff.
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Nov 30, 2013 13:54
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A lot of people complained about the re-used level designs in Devil May Cry 4, but the combat in that game is so good that it would have been just as enjoyable if it was a series of empty rooms with enemies in. Yes, I do like the Bloody Palace mode.
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Nov 30, 2013 15:17
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SirDan3k posted:That's actually what snapped everything in place for me in regards to Ninja Theory wanting to make the next God of War-ish franchise because it's almost exactly what Kratos did in the first game to get a key from a sea captain. Suddenly their ideas made sense they were just trying to capture the God of War flame and never got the gameplay or the story up to snuff. Actually the captain that Kratos kills had left the women and children to die locked up in his cabin. So he did have a reason (all be it just petty revenge) for killing the captain. The thing prisoner thing just sounds like being a dick for the sake of being a dick.
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Nov 30, 2013 22:39
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The captain locking up the women and children is something that's actually pretty easy to gloss over--honestly, I didn't remember it until you mentioned it. I imagine a lot of people forget what Kratos's motivation is at that moment and think, "Man, he totally threw that guy to his death just because." And if that seems badass to you, welp! I actually kind of warmed up to the game with this level. Not sure why. It's introducing a lot of mechanics really quickly and it seems the gameplay spices up considerably, but as others have mentioned it lacks the punch of the DMC 3 and 4's Mega Man style weapon acquisition. As others have pointed out, if this game wasn't set up against its predecessors, it would seem like less of a step back. Also they totally missed the chance to put Demon weapons on the left trigger so they could be "sinister," but I'm just a sucker for puns.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:36
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Ya'll keep saying how New Dante is this terrible awful character that no one likes but I've yet to see it. He just seems like every other 'I work alone' anti-social character that's shown up as protagonists in games. The combat looks boring too, considering that it's still looking like this is tutorial parts of things. But I'm sure things'll change as we get farther into things. I just hope it makes that move quickly.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:21
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So if I was going to play a DMC game, DMC3 would be the one to play? I only have a PC but that seems to be out. It is probably a poo poo port though.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:22
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If you were going to play any single DMC, yeah, make it 3. 3, for my money, has the best blend of solid action, smooth gameplay, interesting level design and silly fun plot. 1 kind of lays the groundwork for the ideas and the enemies have huge movesets but I find the combat a little too stiff, the mission design is all over the place, and the story will either make you cringe or laugh out loud. 4 has some neat additions, a fun new character and makes switching styles with Dante incredibly smooth, but you go through the game entirely with one character and then back again with the other, which rubs a lot of people the wrong way. 2 is universally reviled--Dante has almost no personality and the combat is completely different from all the other games.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:34
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RareAcumen posted:Ya'll keep saying how New Dante is this terrible awful character that no one likes but I've yet to see it. He just seems like every other 'I work alone' anti-social character that's shown up as protagonists in games. That's one big reason this version of Dante got people riled is because he's just a generic anti-hero rear end in a top hat, the old Dante was equally generic but not as common jokester character. I also was sure I was just around the corner from the fighting getting deeper and less boring, then the game ended.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:40
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Addict posted:So if I was going to play a DMC game, DMC3 would be the one to play? I only have a PC but that seems to be out. It is probably a poo poo port though.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:40
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RareAcumen posted:Ya'll keep saying how New Dante is this terrible awful character that no one likes but I've yet to see it. He just seems like every other 'I work alone' anti-social character that's shown up as protagonists in games. That's kind of exactly the problem. They billed him as revolutionary; turning a corner in the realms of RPG protagonists. People hate him because he's a character who would barely be acceptable if played ironically, but he's totally unironic.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:47
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Sindai posted:3 and 4 are both excellent, but the PC port of 3 is supposedly terrible while the port of 4 is fine and actually adds an extra difficulty that takes advantage of better PC hardware to spawn more enemies. The PC port of 4 is better than "fine", it's the definitive version and a big improvement on the console versions. As far as playing 3 on a PC goes, you will have much better results using an emulator to play the PS2 version than you will playing the PC port.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:47
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Sindai posted:the port of 4 is fine and actually adds an extra difficulty that takes advantage of better PC hardware to spawn more enemies. I love every chance there is to post Accountingnightmare's video of Legendary Dark Knight mode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqViM7aFL68
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Dec 1, 2013 01:50
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MarquiseMindfang posted:That's kind of exactly the problem. They billed him as revolutionary; turning a corner in the realms of RPG protagonists. People hate him because he's a character who would barely be acceptable if played ironically, but he's totally unironic. The point that I'm trying to make is that you're [as in the thread as a whole mostly] talking about it as if there's piles of evidence from the LP to go off of. All I've really seen is that he's a smug dude but not in a lovable way. Maybe it gets worse further on but I can't tell yet because there's only been two episodes! Though I'm quite excited to see more of this and get an actual example of why the reboot of Dante sucks compared to the original.
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Dec 1, 2013 02:48
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RareAcumen posted:The point that I'm trying to make is that you're [as in the thread as a whole mostly] talking about it as if there's piles of evidence from the LP to go off of. All I've really seen is that he's a smug dude but not in a lovable way. Maybe it gets worse further on but I can't tell yet because there's only been two episodes! Though I'm quite excited to see more of this and get an actual example of why the reboot of Dante sucks compared to the original. As someone who doesn't like this game and likes its developer even less, there's nothing that objectionable about Dante 2.0 at first blush unless you really dislike his scraggly-homeless-kid getup (and I'm not thrilled by it). He lacks the proper Dante's agency and manic joie de vivre, but the plot in DmC wouldn't have allowed a character with that kind of attitude anyway. Which is mostly the problem - the really unpleasant stuff about DmC's writing, such as it is, tends to take place around people and events other than Dante himself. Dante's redesign was just one continuous reminder that there were different hands on the wheel this time, which only magnified people's distaste for the other stuff. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 02:59
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At worst DmC Dante has a case of the trying too hards but I don't find him offensively bad, in fact it would have been better if he was offensively bad so he'd be something other then one of the million other action game anti-hero Kratos knock offs. You could have replaced him with this Dante and nothing would change. 
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Dec 1, 2013 03:35
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Yeah, quite frankly the really abhorrent stuff doesn't come up for a while. But once it DOES happen, its usually enough to disgust even the most jaded of gamers. Its...quite frankly, its over the line. Changing the subject a bit, here's another big difference between classic DMC and DmC. Here, the world treats Donte like he's exactly as cool as he thinks he is. But back in DMC3? While Dante might think he's the hottest poo poo ever, the world (and the rest of the cast) thinks he's a complete dork. For instance, Vergil's response to Dante's big final "MY SOUL IS TELLING ME TO STOP YOU" speech? He laughs at Dante. Its a theme thats embedded throughout the entire game. Dante tries to turn on his jukebox? It doesn't work. He tries to impress a chick by surfing a missile? She just drives off. He tries to kick a door down? It doesn't budge. He catches that girl from before, saving her life? She shoots him in the face. He fights his brother in a one on one duel atop the tower? Ends up with his own sword stabbed through his chest. He jumps off the tower after running down the side being really badass? Eaten by a flying whale. Kills the whale and bursts out of its eye in front of that chick? He's now covered in blood and stinks to high heaven. Etc etc. Just go back and watch the DMC3 cutscenes again, and take note of how almost every time Dante tries something cool, he comes out of it looking like an idiot. Really, it shows a level of self-awareness on the part of the DMC3 script writers that quite frankly isn't present at all here.
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Dec 1, 2013 03:40
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GilliamYaeger posted:Yeah, quite frankly the really abhorrent stuff doesn't come up for a while. But once it DOES happen, its usually enough to disgust even the most jaded of gamers. Its...quite frankly, its over the line. First, the whole "Donte" thing is really loving obnoxious, and second, no, not really. I don't want to spoil anything, but Dante in DmC is treated like a glorified errand boy for nearly the entire game and people aren't exactly getting down on one knee and singing his praises. It's the errand-boy part that's the big problem - the original Dante might have been a flashy dork with the character depth of a spoon, but no one told him what to do. His life was a party and it was gettin crazy. DmC's plot follows a different structure, which lets a lot of the air out of the balloon.
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Dec 1, 2013 03:48
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Honestly I'm pleasantly surprised by how agreeable this Dante is so far. The facial animations are pretty well done, which kinda helps. My problem was always that God of War was a big, flashy pretender to the action game genre that Devil May Cry founded, and Capcom decided to turn DMC into a pretender to that.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:12
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DmC Dante reminds me of this douchebag I knew in high school who would brag about getting drunk and punching people.
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Dec 1, 2013 06:57
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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I grimaced at the writing towards the end of that last video. "I'll never forget that day" Motherfucker you forgot it for like 20 years
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Dec 1, 2013 09:05
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What exactly is the point of cramming Dante and Virgil's entire childhood history into one sloppy info dump of a second level? Am I supposed to feel sorry that they didn't grow up to be New England demonic rich kids or just ashamed that Capcom never had the idea to ape from MGS3 and make a game about Sparta's War against Hell?
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Dec 1, 2013 09:41
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Crabtree posted:What exactly is the point of cramming Dante and Virgil's entire childhood history into one sloppy info dump of a second level? Am I supposed to feel sorry that they didn't grow up to be New England demonic rich kids or just ashamed that Capcom never had the idea to ape from MGS3 and make a game about Sparta's War against Hell? MGS3 didn't invent the prequel.
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Dec 1, 2013 10:26
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Crabtree posted:New England demonic rich kids Perfect. That scene is one of my least favourites, it is one of the worst kinds of storytelling - in which characters stand around and just vomit plot at one another (or walk'n'talk). It comes off as rushed and lifeless. I liked the audio flashbacks in the (Limbo) Sparda estate better because they're happening in the background as the player is going through the level. They're memories playing out, rather than an exposition dump. Also how does Mundus just forget about the Sparda boys for 20 years? Do demons have qualms about killing the children of their hated enemies? Am I to understand that this guy, who has the President/world by the balls by owning the economy, is also too incompetent to follow through on a revenge plot against one guy and his family (especially with how much of a wuss Sparda is in this universe)? This goddamn story. The game's often pretty good looking, though. NT has/had some fine artists.
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Dec 1, 2013 10:57
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wildzero posted:Also how does Mundus just forget about the Sparda boys for 20 years? Do demons have qualms about killing the children of their hated enemies? Am I to understand that this guy, who has the President/world by the balls by owning the economy, is also too incompetent to follow through on a revenge plot against one guy and his family (especially with how much of a wuss Sparda is in this universe)? This goddamn story. It's not that he just forgets about them, it's somehow Mundus doesn't know that: * Sparda has shacked up with an angel who is living in his giant mansion. * Sparda had twin sons - he thinks he only had a single son. And he doesn't find out for seven whole years. * Decides to kill Eva, instead of Dante - who is an actual threat to him. * Doesn't know where Dante has been for the last...however many years older Dante is meant to be, despite the fact that Dante's been living in a demon-controlled city with CCTV everywhere, has a police record, been sent to demon-prison, and frequents a strip club that is owned by Mundus. And to top it off, Dante has magic amnesia, so doesn't even think he has any reason to hide himself. And still Mundus can't find him. It's something that could have been averted by not giving Dante magical amnesia, (so he's been deliberately in hiding) and just had him been working with Vergil for however many years. That would also solve the problem of the game, very awkwardly, trying to get them to bond. I wish they did more with the game's art really; they managed to get a load of graffiti artists onboard, to submit designs for various things, and it looks really cool. But they don't really do anything with it. Something they could perhaps have done, is have the enemies form out of the graffiti maybe (they're already half-way there), have the world be more involved than just "OMINOUS MESSAGES" and moving platforms. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 19:13
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At the risk of making a mountain out of a mole-hill of the series' plots... there was the fact that in previous games, the boys' mother was human, whereas here she's an angel. That... just doesn't kinda sit right with me - it makes them... Well, they were never really supposed to be relatable in the first place, I guess, but basically, makes them seem totally removed from humanity in general. I mean, it implies that a devil can only have it's mevil tempered by something inhuman, whereas in the previous games, it was a simple human who managed to get a devil to renounce evil... and that somehow made twins more relatable, because they were trying to be more human than devil? Sorry, this seems a bit rambly even to me, but... I don't see why they had to change the mother from being a human to being an angel
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Dec 1, 2013 19:33
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RareAcumen posted:Ya'll keep saying how New Dante is this terrible awful character that no one likes but I've yet to see it. He just seems like every other 'I work alone' anti-social character that's shown up as protagonists in games.
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Dec 1, 2013 19:43
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George posted:MGS3 didn't invent the prequel. Sorry this is late, but Three was the most successfully executed prequel in video games I can think of - so much so that its currently stolen the franchise. But I would be perfectly fine if Devil May Cry became The Life and Times of Sparda. Other than siring Dante and Virgil there is relatively no canon or established character image to screw with in designing a story all about him. Hell, it would even have allowed Ninja Theory to make the game even more Punk by allowing them to go back to Britain in the 70s if they wanted. As long as the boys are fighting around the 2000s Sparda could have been anywhere fighting demons, being a classy mother fucker or chilling out with Eve in his golden years. The sky is the limit on a game about him!
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Dec 1, 2013 20:02
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Samovar posted:I don't see why they had to change the mother from being a human to being an angel I vaguely recall them trying to justify the change, as being the reason Dante is able to use Angel Arms in the game. It's dumb. Dante being half-angel was apparently going to more heavily featured in a gameplay mechanic, he would have gained an "Angel Trigger" as a counterpart to the series standard Devil Trigger (which he also gains), but for whatever reason, they didn't go too far with it.
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Dec 1, 2013 20:06
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GilliamYaeger posted:Etc etc. Just go back and watch the DMC3 cutscenes again, and take note of how almost every time Dante tries something cool, he comes out of it looking like an idiot. Tries to make out with the female lead; female lead swerves him and groans her disapproval.
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Dec 1, 2013 20:14
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My assumption based on what I heard about from their previous games like Heavenly Sword (Didn't play it), the angel/devil forms were supposed to act as stances, and were probably supposed to be constantly activated instead of triggered. It would also follow the 'Dante has Styles' theme, but as stances. But stances require different move sets, and move sets are extra work, so... 
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Dec 1, 2013 20:21
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Crabtree posted:Sorry this is late, but Three was the most successfully executed prequel in video games I can think of - so much so that its currently stolen the franchise. But I would be perfectly fine if Devil May Cry became The Life and Times of Sparda. Other than siring Dante and Virgil there is relatively no canon or established character image to screw with in designing a story all about him. Hell, it would even have allowed Ninja Theory to make the game even more Punk by allowing them to go back to Britain in the 70s if they wanted. As long as the boys are fighting around the 2000s Sparda could have been anywhere fighting demons, being a classy mother fucker or chilling out with Eve in his golden years. The sky is the limit on a game about him! It's funny, you actually get to catch a glimpse of Sparda from behind in some of Dante's memories in this stage. He's wearing a checked flannel shirt and jeans. Considering he dressed like an aristocratic dandy, going by the alternate costumes in previous games, that's a bit of a 180.
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Dec 1, 2013 20:26
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:It's funny, you actually get to catch a glimpse of Sparda from behind in some of Dante's memories in this stage. He's wearing a checked flannel shirt and jeans. Considering he dressed like an aristocratic dandy, going by the alternate costumes in previous games, that's a bit of a 180. There is nothing more fear inspiring than a Nuclear Family Dad and his Cosby sweater. poo poo, I'd pay money for a game where Sparta is NORP Hugh Beaumont fighting demons in between being a responsible 1950s father and having a relatively conservative job.
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Dec 1, 2013 20:48
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User0015 posted:My assumption based on what I heard about from their previous games like Heavenly Sword (Didn't play it), the angel/devil forms were supposed to act as stances, and were probably supposed to be constantly activated instead of triggered. It would also follow the 'Dante has Styles' theme, but as stances.
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Dec 1, 2013 20:52
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Samovar posted:At the risk of making a mountain out of a mole-hill of the series' plots... there was the fact that in previous games, the boys' mother was human, whereas here she's an angel. That... just doesn't kinda sit right with me - it makes them... Well, they were never really supposed to be relatable in the first place, I guess, but basically, makes them seem totally removed from humanity in general. You're quite right. And this bothers you for good reason: it was a major theme in DMC 1-4. Yes, even 2. DMC stories may never have been "good" but they did have several things going for them: 1) They were presented very well. 2) The games focused on the gameplay 3) The games never take their story too seriously 4) The stories touched on some interesting themes despite their cheesy quality Bulletstorm also has this going for it. Which is why Bulletstorm's story is much more palatable than DmC's. Pesky Splinter posted:I wish they did more with the game's art really; they managed to get a load of graffiti artists onboard, to submit designs for various things, and it looks really cool. But they don't really do anything with it. Something they could perhaps have done, is have the enemies form out of the graffiti maybe (they're already half-way there), have the world be more involved than just "OMINOUS MESSAGES" and moving platforms. They would have to come from billboards though. Graffiti is street! Billboards are "the man"  I'm gonna go against the mold and say that I dislike this game's graphics. All of the colours are so washed out and unpleasant. There's nothing visually distinctive or striking, except for like 1 stage. And the less said about the grey in the grey real grey world, the better (grey). It's way too loving grey. I get what they were going for, but they overdid it by a lot.
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Dec 1, 2013 21:14
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SSNeoman posted:You're quite right. And this bothers you for good reason: it was a major theme in DMC 1-4. Yes, even 2. Also true of Bayonetta, which is basically Hideki Kamiya's second go at making a Devil May Cry game after he was moved on to the team which eventually made Viewtiful Joe. Apparently he only found out they were only making a DMC2 when someone, possibly Itsuno, asked him for DMC1's game design document.
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Dec 1, 2013 21:30
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SSNeoman posted:DMC stories may never have been "good" but they did have several things going for them: There's also the fact, that all the stories are pretty simple. They can all basically be boiled down to "[SATAN/EVIL C.E.O/EVIL TWIN/EVIL POPE] wants to open a hellmouth on/in [ISLAND/CITY/OTHER CITY/EVIL VATICAN] for power. Dante must stop them." It's hard to gently caress up a simple concept (though DMC2 comes close thanks to how sloppily its narrative is put together). When it comes to DmC's story, however, they're trying to do all these ill-fitting, different story focuses on it (we'll see as we go along), and it just comes across as an unfocused, atonal, clusterfuck. Aurain posted:Apparently he only found out they were only making a DMC2 when someone, possibly Itsuno, asked him for DMC1's game design document. That must have been such a slap in the face for him. I wouldn't be surprised if after the success of DMC1, Capcom overhauled a seperate game that was being worked on, to incorporate DMC elements, in an attempt to ship it out quick, or something. Shame that Itsuno got some flak for DMC2 - apparently he was called in fairly late in development.
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Dec 1, 2013 21:50
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That is exactily what happened, it was going to be it's own seperate thing but then someone decided to turn it into a sequel to Devil May Cry.
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Dec 1, 2013 22:02
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David D. Davidson posted:That is exactily what happened, it was going to be it's own seperate thing but then someone decided to turn it into a sequel to Devil May Cry. I really, really wouldn't be surprised if this is why this game has the problems it does. This game is better than DMC2, but it's basically DMC2-2. Ninja Theory start making game, get call from capcom, cannibalise it into DmC, insert references to prior series, ship. I have no evidence to prove that, but it seems likely to me, the initial announcement was incredibly not DMC like even compared to this and very Tameem self insert. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 22:38
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Aurain posted:Ninja Theory start making game, get call from capcom, cannibalise it into DmC, insert references to prior series, ship. I have no evidence to prove that, but it seems likely to me, the initial announcement was incredibly not DMC like even compared to this and very Tameem self insert. I think it's less that, than the fact that the only real "deep" combat they had experience developing with, was Heavenly Sword. It's an okay base to start on, I guess. From the interviews and things, however, it's rather clear that they're out of their depth; Capcom had to send Itsuno and some of the DMC4 team over to NT, to teach them basic concepts like attacks having weight and momentum, (in particular the axe) and utilising the most out of their designs; the enemies with the blades on the arms, for instance - the fodder - originally, they weren't going to use their blades very much. Itsuno had to say, "Wait a minute, that's not right". Honestly the game could have ended up much worse if Capcom hadn't sent Itsuno and his team to question their gameplay decisions. The design looking like Tameem was just a coincidence. Hell, if you want a shock, have a look at the original concept for Leon for RE2:  Re2: gently caress You! Edition. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 22:53
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Pesky Splinter posted:From the interviews and things, however, it's rather clear that they're out of their depth; Capcom had to send Itsuno and some of the DMC4 team over to NT, to teach them basic concepts like attacks having weight and momentum, (in particular the axe) and utilising the most out of their designs; the enemies with the blades on the arms, for instance - the fodder - originally, they weren't going to use their blades very much. Itsuno had to say, "Wait a minute, that's not right". And here's the source of that! Its a very interesting article, since it basically consists of Capcom trashing the hell out of Ninja Theory. quote:The design looking like Tameem was just a coincidence. Hell, if you want a shock, have a look at the original concept for Leon for RE2:
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Dec 2, 2013 03:43
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