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quote:Any system can be abused, Baker allowed, but he said fears of the policy drifting to domestic political opponents don't justify rejecting it. "On that ground you could question almost any tactic we use in a war, and at some point you have to say we're counting on our officials to know the difference," he said. From the article on the previous page. It's amazing how someone can come so close to figuring it out and then just zoom off in completely the wrong direction. Re: The lady who was denied entry in the US for clinical depression: I was talking about this with some friends and one of them said that the person in question wrote a book about her depression, but unless that book just recently came out I don't know how it would be relevant to her getting hospitalized for depression.
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Dec 2, 2013 23:01
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rscott posted:Re: The lady who was denied entry in the US for clinical depression: I was talking about this with some friends and one of them said that the person in question wrote a book about her depression, but unless that book just recently came out I don't know how it would be relevant to her getting hospitalized for depression. I'm pretty sure it was the 911 call her mom placed. Again, that's terrible, this woman is obviously no threat to the country and so on, but I don't think this means that they have access to private medical records quite yet. Also I was thinking about it, it's laughable that America will keep you out of the country for mental health issues because we sure as gently caress don't care about them once you're already in the country.
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Dec 3, 2013 07:02
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Alan Rusbridger, the editor of The Guardian, testified today before the Home Affairs Select Committee today, and Keith Vaz asked him, "Do you love this country?" While this is certainly one of the most sensational things said, having reviewed the transcript, there was little of substance asked or answered. In the previous iteration of this thread there was a lot of scoffing at the potential for McCarthyesque proceedings, but come on, this is straight out of the "Find the Commie" handbook.
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Dec 4, 2013 06:31
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Do they teach about McCarthy in the kennels where neoliberal ministers are whelped?
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Dec 4, 2013 06:42
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Don't know if anyone still cares about this but Pando responded to Greenwald yesterday.
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Dec 4, 2013 07:07
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Aurubin posted:Alan Rusbridger, the editor of The Guardian, testified today before the Home Affairs Select Committee today, and Keith Vaz asked him, "Do you love this country?" While this is certainly one of the most sensational things said, having reviewed the transcript, there was little of substance asked or answered. In the previous iteration of this thread there was a lot of scoffing at the potential for McCarthyesque proceedings, but come on, this is straight out of the "Find the Commie" handbook. I can't help but notice that all the naysayers have stopped posting entirely at this point.
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Dec 4, 2013 08:34
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Sudo Echo posted:I can't help but notice that all the naysayers have stopped posting entirely at this point. Might have simply lost interest, Occam's Razor and all that. At the same time, I was wondering if they'd ever confirm Wyden's dogwhistling It's all incidental, Jones didn't decide poo poo, blah blah blah all Stingray docs FOIA'd from the FBI are completely redacted.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:59
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Kid Gloves posted:Don't know if anyone still cares about this but Pando responded to Greenwald yesterday. quote:As for the “grassroots” anti-TSA movement which Tyner helped promote — well, you can read [link to story about TSA shooting] to see how that turned out.
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Dec 4, 2013 22:01
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I think that the complaints about airport security are largely the overwrought whining of white people inconvenienced for 10 minutes but you have to be bugfuck to think that popular anti-TSA sentiment is due to corporate propaganda
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Dec 4, 2013 23:03
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I attended a lecture by a couple of the lead attorneys on the TSA unionization campaign a couple months ago and I actually asked them about those allegations point-blank; they certainly didn't seem to consider it one of their major obstacles.
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Dec 4, 2013 23:09
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Tezzor posted:I think that the complaints about airport security are largely the overwrought whining of white people inconvenienced for 10 minutes but you have to be bugfuck to think that popular anti-TSA sentiment is due to corporate propaganda I remember hearing that a good chunk of it was because there were mutterings of unionizing which would explain why there was this sudden pressure against the TSA employees.
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Dec 4, 2013 23:09
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Tezzor posted:I think that the complaints about airport security are largely the overwrought whining of white people inconvenienced for 10 minutes but you have to be bugfuck to think that popular anti-TSA sentiment is due to corporate propaganda There is a difference between popular sentiment and it suddenly blowing up in the news in the space of two weeks, though.
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Dec 5, 2013 00:10
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Further assumptions turning out to be 100% correct... NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1fac_story.html And down the rabbit hole we go...
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Dec 5, 2013 16:32
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Good bit of long form journalism detailing Greenwald and Snowden. They only talk to people on the anti-survelliance side however, so I'll admit a lack of balance. Then again, besides John Schindler and Stewart Baker spouting distilled jingoism, I doubt anyone would of given Rolling Stone anything more than talking points: http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/snowden-and-greenwald-the-men-who-leaked-the-secrets-20131204
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Dec 5, 2013 17:03
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cr0y posted:Further assumptions turning out to be 100% correct... I used to work for a company that sold a thing(dont ask) to the army in australia. Anyway, the boss was asked to go on a training exercise as a civilian consultant up in the north west of australia where anti-terrorist troops would simulate some sort of scenario. Anyway as the thing started to unfold, ASIO (Or ASIS, I forget) turned up with a big surveilance truck to do their part and the boss got talking to them and part of it was tracking mobile phones. He asked if they could do it with any phone, so the guy went into his truck and 5 minutes later came back with a printout that listed his movements over the previous two days, to GPS like accuracy. This was in the 1990s. And not the NSA, but ASIO, likely a fraction of the tech the NSA would have. Trust me, they monitor the gently caress out of everyone.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:02
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I'm sure they do. Now lets try and figure out how to get them to stop.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:05
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Binton posted:This is making the rounds in the Canadian media today, seems like we're already halfway down the slippery slope and going full speed towards the bottom: One of the bits of poo poo hitting the fan here in australia at the moment is that the govt has been giving the US everyones medical records, phone records, bank details, the whole loving kit. Turns out one of the down sides of UHC is the govt ends up getting records of everything. Well it turns out a friend of mine recently contacted medicare for his medical files for an unrelated to this legal claim, and they had a record of *every* procedure he's had, since 1984. I guess so do the Americans. Theres no reason to believe the UK and Canada are not doing the same, as part of the "5 eyes surveilance network" Aaaaand it looks like the US is abusing those records too if this Toronto lady is an example that can be generalized from.
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Dec 5, 2013 20:14
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Aurubin posted:Good bit of long form journalism detailing Greenwald and Snowden. They only talk to people on the anti-survelliance side however, so I'll admit a lack of balance. Maybe they would only speak on background.
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Dec 5, 2013 21:11
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While I saw this in multiple venues, I think this Forbes article succinctly points out the dissonance between the intelligence agencies and those who are agitated by them: U.S. Spy Rocket Has Octopus-Themed 'Nothing Is Beyond Our Reach' Logo. Seriously. 
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Dec 7, 2013 01:12
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Reality is stranger than fiction. If someone had written a novel a decade ago with all that has been happening it would have been described as "too unrealistic". Smile!  Sancho posted:I'm sure they do. Now lets try and figure out how to get them to stop. The funny thing is that when you Americans have enough of it to finally act, they will just close shop and open it with a new name, and all will remain the same. Saoshyant fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 01:18
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The FBI likes to spy too http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/2013/12/06/352ba174-5397-11e3-9e2c-e1d01116fd98_story.html quote:The man who called himself “Mo” had dark hair, a foreign accent and — if the pictures he e-mailed to federal investigators could be believed — an Iranian military uniform. When he made a series of threats to detonate bombs at universities and airports across a wide swath of the United States last year, police had to scramble every time.
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Dec 7, 2013 23:06
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Yes but are we defining success as "you accomplish what you promise the American public" or as "your agency expands"?
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Dec 7, 2013 23:12
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In this case I am conveniently ignoring promises of elected politicians and thinking of things accomplished by the workers.
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Dec 7, 2013 23:29
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Anyone who continues to use an email account after using it to send bomb threats to the federal government isn't "adept at covering their tracks online". Assuming they got the proper warrants, the FBI didn't do anything wrong, since this spying was narrowly targeted to a person who actually committed a crime.
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Dec 7, 2013 23:43
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Konstantin posted:Anyone who continues to use an email account after using it to send bomb threats to the federal government isn't "adept at covering their tracks online". Assuming they got the proper warrants, the FBI didn't do anything wrong, since this spying was narrowly targeted to a person who actually committed a crime. Exactly what I was thinking. The people who wrote that article are trying to piggy back on the current outrage regarding dragnet surveillance in order to drive some clicks, but the idea that the FBI lawfully obtaining a warrant should rile us up because they're capable of accurately tracking someone is nonsense. I have no problem with the government being capable of and competent at tracking people, except when they do it under dubious legal circumstances. I'd actually be kind of pissed off if the government sucked at this type of thing in 2013.
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Dec 8, 2013 04:26
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This is a great piece from the New Yorker if anyone is interested in the political personalities surrounding this debacle: http://newyorker.com/reporting/2013/12/16/131216fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all I'll suffer the Tea Party in Congress if it means the one drat thing passed next year is a veto proof bill banning bulk collection. I repeat that I think it's doubly dangerous; being an ineffective investigative technique and a great tool for repression. Those teo things compound one another. "We missed the terrorists! Give us more money to build This Guardian piece about tech lobbying too, since this is hurting their bottom line: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/09/nsa-surveillance-tech-companies-demand-sweeping-changes-to-us-laws
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Dec 9, 2013 06:49
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...quote:Not limiting their activities to the earthly realm, American and British spies have infiltrated the fantasy worlds of World of Warcraft and Second Life, conducting surveillance and scooping up data in the online games played by millions of people across the globe, according to newly disclosed classified documents. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/world/spies-dragnet-reaches-a-playing-field-of-elves-and-trolls.html?pagewanted=1&hp
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Dec 9, 2013 15:07
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God drat it now I can't even log into WoW and express how much I want to blow America up?!* *Being a foreign national with a green card I should probably state for the record that I do not actually want to Blow America Up.
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Dec 9, 2013 15:11
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Well someone has found his dream job at NSA - to do nothing but play MMOs and still get paid handsomely for it.
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Dec 9, 2013 16:01
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AOL, Twitter, Facebook, Microsoft, Google and Yahoo released an open letter where they call for heavy reform of the global economic spying program: http://reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/ Nice sentiment, but we'll see if their words are backed up with actions, especially after most of these guys meekly acquiesced to government demands.
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Dec 9, 2013 16:32
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Tezzor posted:AOL, Twitter, Facebook, Microsoft, Google and Yahoo released an open letter where they call for heavy reform of the global economic spying program: http://reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/ I think even if they are disingenuous this statement still gives good cover to the people trying to pass anti surveillance legislation.
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Dec 9, 2013 17:18
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Tezzor posted:AOL, Twitter, Facebook, Microsoft, Google and Yahoo released an open letter where they call for heavy reform of the global economic spying program: http://reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/ What specifically would you classify as economic spying?
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Dec 9, 2013 17:37
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Pyromancer posted:Well someone has found his dream job at NSA - to do nothing but play MMOs and still get paid handsomely for it. On the flipside, imagine joining the NSA and being pumped at your new spy life. In your mind, all the chicks at the club are yours, even the tens. Then it turns out your assignment is WoW.
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Dec 9, 2013 17:45
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dex_sda posted:On the flipside, imagine joining the NSA and being pumped at your new spy life. In your mind, all the chicks at the club are yours, even the tens. Well that explain why employee morale is apparently suffering at the NSA.
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Dec 9, 2013 17:53
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Xandu posted:What specifically would you classify as economic spying? Petrobras is the most immediate example, or spying on Merkle, but these are just examples among many, the takeaway from all this is that the amount of deliberate collection and who it is targeted at is so vast that is impossible to honestly describe these programs in terms of counterrorism in either theory or in practice. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 18:19
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Xandu posted:... This reminds me of an anecdote from an episode of Law and Order, wherein veterans of 60's/70's anti-war movement police infiltration units remarked how later on they learned how their groups were often choked with undercover cops, at times making up the majority. Are they trying to connect the stereotype of video game players' anti-social behavior with susceptibility to jihadism? How does this work? "LFG for dungeon, must hate Israel."
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Dec 9, 2013 19:35
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Aurubin posted:Are they trying to connect the stereotype of video game players' anti-social behavior with susceptibility to jihadism? How does this work? "LFG for dungeon, must hate Israel." Oh dear, I probably have a file or two about me.
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Dec 9, 2013 19:44
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I'm rather upset that the NSA did not see fit to offer me tips on improving my DPS or perhaps carry me through a raid or two. I'm an American citizen, goddammit! I've got rights!
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Dec 9, 2013 20:57
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Next you're going to tell me that those 13 year olds screaming homophobic slurs on Call of Duty servers are undercover NSA operatives.
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Dec 9, 2013 21:08
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Has there been any identified miss uses of this surveillance against national groups e.g. Anti-capitalists, anti-establiment? (Not caught up yet... We'll at all, so sorry if this has been asked)
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