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Terper posted:Quality hierarchy of the Final Fantasy series: I agree with this, while adding a corollary that 12 & 13 have skippable cutscenes and so are therefore superior to previous installments.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:56
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Mustach posted:Yeah, it doesn't make sense why he didn't get a multi-hit attack like everybody else or at least a couple of blue magics like Quistis' that are at least situationally useful. He's useless for postgame. It's funny because Rikku invalidates 90% of the stuff Kimahri would even be situationally useful for. I guess Stone Breath is useful for the first Seymour fight if you don't want to burn a Petrify Grenade. He's still the best at blowing himself up at least!
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Dec 10, 2013 22:57
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gigglefeimer posted:The cutscenes in X are so cringe-worthy. I'd be embarrassed playing that game with other people in the room. Meh, the only really cringe-worthy one I remember...we all remember, is the infamous laughing scene. Even with the justification that it's meant to be awkward ingame (the other characters don't know what the gently caress to think), it's still pretty cringe-worthy. I liked the story to X, as far as JRPG plots go, I didn't think it was too bad. It's coherent, at the very least.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:59
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BioMe posted:Which (of their usual) pitfalls of characterization are present in VII though? Relying on developing a character by having them explain their backstory through expository dialogue, characters suddenly deciding they need to have development and then not reflecting on their experiences at all afterward, focusing in sharply on the main character at the expense of the rest of the cast... ZenMasterBullshit posted:Except they totally did pull it off? Like, as a narrative it works and once you hit the lifestream everything falls into place and suddenly everything makes sense, even the weird poo poo like why Tifa played along with him or why Cloud was so like this old Zack guy/attracted to Aeris. Just like it shouldn't take 30 hours for you to not have to run down a corridor in FF13, it shouldn't take 30 hours for you to stop being yanked around by the narrative of FF7. "Hahahaha every character is lying to you" is such a Shyamalyan-ish act 3 twist, and it's the kind of storytelling Square was loving in love with during the PSX era. Just like Chrono Cross' "turns out you were actually being manipulated by the bad guys into doing things for them!" isn't inherently a bad plot twist, but it became a bad twist when CC used it after you've finished 95% of the game. It's one of those "writing video games is different than writing other forms of fiction" things.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:59
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You know, I honestly will never understand the "I couldn't play this in a room with other people" thing. Not because it isn't true but because it applies to 99% of games I've played. There's no loving way I'd play God of War in a room with someone else who wasn't familiar with the kind of game it is, or Last of Us, or Bioshock Infinite or... basically anything beyond some Nintendo games, LEGO games, and maybe something like Uncharted. Embarrassing speeches about friendship make me feel less awkward than shoving a spinning blade into a guy's face and converting him into a wrecked mass of goo. One of the most awkward experiences I ever remember having is playing through Resident Evil 5 for a friend who needed to see the dialogue for something she was writing about.
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 22:59
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NikkolasKing posted:She is literally seeking to wipe an empire off the face of Ivalice and she has perfectly legit reasons for wanting that. And yet, she must abandon her justified thirst for revenge, and realize that her kingdom and her people deserve people through honor, not power. I didn't play much of XII, but something about justified thirst for revenge and wiping an empire out seems off.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:01
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-The best thing about Kimahri is that he comes witH Biran and Yenke. Say what you will about the voice-acting in this game, but those guys were amazing. "Hornless! Hornless!" Seriously though, I loved the atmosphere of that fight. These jerks have been making GBS threads on you pretty much the whole game and now you finally prove your power to them and shut them up once and for all. Then Seymour promptly kills them all while they're injured from your thrashing them... Oh well.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:04
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Pasteurized Milk posted:I didn't play much of XII, but something about justified thirst for revenge and wiping an empire out seems off. In Ashe's eyes it's sorta justified (lost her husband, her kingdom, etc), or rather, you can see why she tries to justify it, and the Occuria try to goad her into doing it. She comes to her senses of course, and doesn't go through with it.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:05
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Pesky Splinter posted:Meh, the only really cringe-worthy one I remember...we all remember, is the infamous laughing scene. Even with the justification that it's meant to be awkward ingame (the other characters don't know what the gently caress to think), it's still pretty cringe-worthy. Tidus acting like an annoying child in the beginning of the game, the melodramatic scenes at Home, that FMV of Rikku undressing, any scene involving Tidus and Jecht, it's all pretty terrible. edit: oh yeah the Biran and Yenke scenes. Those were just horrendous.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:08
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Defiance Industries posted:Just like it shouldn't take 30 hours for you to not have to run down a corridor in FF13, it shouldn't take 30 hours for you to stop being yanked around by the narrative of FF7. Mysteries kind of suck if they get resolved in ten seconds though? A huge chunk of FFVII's plot is centered around the mystery of what the gently caress happened to Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth in Nibelheim. Across discs 1 and 2 you get varying accounts, many of them conflicting, and it all builds up to the big reveal. The story is pretty straightforward from there. It's not even that everyone was lying to each other anyways, the issue was that nobody but Cloud knew the crucial last piece of the puzzle.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:11
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ImpAtom posted:One of the most awkward experiences I ever remember having is playing through Resident Evil 5 for a friend who needed to see the dialogue for something she was writing about.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:13
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gigglefeimer posted:Tidus acting like an annoying child in the beginning of the game, the melodramatic scenes at Home, that FMV of Rikku undressing, any scene involving Tidus and Jecht, it's all pretty terrible. *Didn't bother me. *JRPG - I'd be complaining if there wasn't any melodrama  *Yeah okay - I'll agree on that one - must've repressed that scene. *You really think the...three, four(?) scenes they share together were that terrible?
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Dec 10, 2013 23:13
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Pasteurized Milk posted:I didn't play much of XII, but something about justified thirst for revenge and wiping an empire out seems off. The Empire is responsible for taking away everything she held dear. For their own selfish reasons, they killed her husband, straight up murdered her father who was just there for peace talks, and all of this is just the tip of the iceberg as they invaded several kingdoms and committed multiple acts of genocide. Completely unjustified acts too in the case of Mt. Bur-omisace, a peaceful religious refuge. Ahse struggles with very understandable feelings of resentment over all this, turning down her bodyguard's attempt to sue for peace where she'd be allowed to resume the throne as a puppet ruler to Vayne. Her longing was for destruction of her enemies, rather than peace for her people. Until of course the climax of the game where she realizes that, no matttr if the Empire is completely obliterated, she's still lost everything. And if she continues down that path, she'll lose even more. She finally puts her people above herself in the end when She turns down unrivaled power in favor of restoring her kingdom to its former peaceful state instead of rebuilding it as a military superpower. She was easily one of the strongest and most admirable characters in the seies because I think the mark of a hero or heroine is not being free of temptation and weakness, but overcoming it. eDIT: What's wrong with the scene at Home? It's one of the best examples that Tidus' VA doesn't suck nearly as much as people claim. Plus this loving song. That track alone makes it one of the best and most memorable parts in the game. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 23:17
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Pesky Splinter posted:*Didn't bother me. Gratuitous crossfades and Tidus' terrible voice acting just made scenes so much worse, so even though the story was just as bad as other FF's, the presentation made it unbearable.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:19
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gigglefeimer posted:...so even though the story was just as bad as other FF's, the presentation made it unbearable. How's the story "bad" as such? You've mentioned Tidus et al, but what's bad about the actual story? Just the presentation? The pacing, characters, the actual narrative itself? Just curious, that's all. I mean, I can think of many things I didn't like about X, but to me it feels more...I dunno, better put together, more cohesive than something like XIII, and a lot tighter than XII. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 23:23
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Couldn't he have just used YouTube? Then again, a friend of a friend was in a frat and only played FF13 with his door locked, blinds closed, lights off, and volume one click above muted, so I can still sympathize. It wasn't an option at the time sadly. The dialogue wasn't even the issue. It was just the "... did you just shoot that woman in the knee and then break her neck?" "... maybe" sort of stuff.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:24
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Pesky Splinter posted:How's the story "bad" as such? You've mentioned Tidus et al, but what's bad about the actual story? Just the presentation? The pacing, characters, the actual narrative itself? Just curious, that's all. It's dad issues: the game, but because japan your dad is a giant space whale and you're some kind of ghost.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:30
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I know everyone and their mother loves to complain about how obvious the twist with Yuna is. "I saw it coming a million miles away! Talk about excessive foreshadowing!" Only of course I'm pretty sure we're supposed to know. It's Tidus who is the bonehead who never figured it out. The whole Tidus is a dream thing doesn't really go anywhere for his character. He never really reflects on how he's going to blip out of existence once everything is said and done. I mean, he freaks out when he first learns about it, but I would have liked if we could have had a scene of him contemplating his impending end. The fact a Calm lasts no time at all. Most people, myself included, took it for granted that Sin had just returned by the time of the game. That is to say Braska defeated it and it was gone for about a decade. The truth is that Sin was only gone for a few months. I could accept people sacrificing Summoners for a few years of peace but a few months? That's hard for me to swallow.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:31
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The translation is horrible, but the PS1 version of Final Fantasy V is finally playable on the Vita. Good for a portable fiesta experience.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:34
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Pesky Splinter posted:How's the story "bad" as such? You've mentioned Tidus et al, but what's bad about the actual story? Just the presentation? The pacing, characters, the actual narrative itself? Just curious, that's all. Better than XII and XIII isn't saying much. Yuna gets kidnapped so many times because her guardians are useless. I didn't care about Wakka's stupid blitzball match. Tidus and Yuna's pairing felt too forced. Everyone was like, hey, they just met and they're two beautiful young people, of course they'll get together! Wakka's a racist rear end in a top hat. Lulu does nothing of importance. Seymour is the stupidest villain ever. Tidus going on about "sin's toxins" was the most awkward thing every single time he uses it as an excuse. Getting transported to the desert made no sense.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:40
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Is there a mod out there that pretties up the translation for FFVII on PC? I remember hearing about one being put together some years ago, but I also remember them saying they were "staying true to the Japanese script" which seemed to mean putting honorifics at the end of each characters name. That's pretty lame.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:44
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gigglefeimer posted:Wakka's a racist rear end in a top hat. I'm not defending the game because I really don't care but it strikes me as silly when people use stuff like this or even lamer complaints (e- emo) as an effortless way to dismiss a character. Oh noo a realistic flaw that gels with the setting and provides opportunities for personal growth, what a drag
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Dec 10, 2013 23:46
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gigglefeimer posted:Tidus and Yuna's pairing felt too forced. Everyone was like, hey, they just met and they're two beautiful young people, of course they'll get together! I think you're confusing the Tidus/Yuna pairing with Squall/Rinoa. People in FFX are more, 'well, if he makes her happy, ah well.' Especially since Spira is a world where people marry young because of Sin. Tidus stops talking about Sin's toxin after what, Luca? Really, it's fine if you don't like FFX's plot, but most of these aren't representative of the plot as a whole.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:48
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Cloche posted:I'm not defending the game because I really don't care but it strikes me as silly when people use stuff like this or even lamer complaints (e- emo) as an effortless way to dismiss a character. I just didn't like him. He was cool in X-2 though.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:50
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Moldy Taxes posted:Is there a mod out there that pretties up the translation for FFVII on PC? I remember hearing about one being put together some years ago, but I also remember them saying they were "staying true to the Japanese script" which seemed to mean putting honorifics at the end of each characters name. That's pretty lame. People have been working on it but the one I saw is very much a "we must be literal at all times~" sort of thing.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:51
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ApplesandOranges posted:I think you're confusing the Tidus/Yuna pairing with Squall/Rinoa. People in FFX are more, 'well, if he makes her happy, ah well.' Especially since Spira is a world where people marry young because of Sin. The relationship between Tidus and Yuna is pretty key to the plot, and it was dumb how people talk about them being together before they even leave Besaid.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:52
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Defiance Industries posted:Relying on developing a character by having them explain their backstory through expository dialogue, characters suddenly deciding they need to have development and then not reflecting on their experiences at all afterward, focusing in sharply on the main character at the expense of the rest of the cast... Except it's not at all? Like it's actually really set up and kind of the loving point of Cloud's character and his connection to Sephiroth and the main narrative. Literally from Cloud's first interaction with Tifa and every time he's alone you get hints that things aren't at all what they seem. And not every character is lying to you. Only Cloud. Tifa's memory is faulty and was passed out for most of the event so she just doesn't say anything against Cloud and Sephiroth was wrong about everything from the start. Hell, he believes Jenovah was an ancient and his mom because some notes say that he was experimented on, which is kind of stupid on the face of it but he is so convinced he goes crazy. And it's only the backstory you're unsure of. Literally the rest of the game is pretty reliably told to you, since you're actually seeing happen as it happens. You're not being Yanked Around, they're setting up a plot point and writing towards it.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:54
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Moldy Taxes posted:Is there a mod out there that pretties up the translation for FFVII on PC? I remember hearing about one being put together some years ago, but I also remember them saying they were "staying true to the Japanese script" which seemed to mean putting honorifics at the end of each characters name. That's pretty lame. The only one I know is the one full of anal poo poo like changing "Elena" to "Irene" and half of the other names in the game to be as literal representations of Japanese phonetics as possible, yeah. I almost made an account on that forum just to troll him by arguing the glorious true intention of the Nipponese overlords was obviously "Claude", not "Cloud".
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Dec 10, 2013 23:54
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gigglefeimer posted:The relationship between Tidus and Yuna is pretty key to the plot, and it was dumb how people talk about them being together before they even leave Besaid. I'm very interested in where this happens since Yuna didn't even mention wanting Tidus as a guardian til Kilika and Wakka just told Tidus to stick with them til Luca because he thinks they'll find someone who knows him. Wakka and Lulu catch on pretty quickly that Yuna likes Tidus, but that's the extent of it really.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:56
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BioMe posted:The only one I know is the one full of anal poo poo like changing "Elena" to "Irene" and half of the other names in the game to be as literal representations of Japanese phonetics as possible, yeah. I almost made an account on that forum just to troll him by arguing the glorious true intention of the Nipponese overlords was obviously "Claude", not "Cloud". You should have gone for "Clod."
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Dec 11, 2013 00:01
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ImpAtom posted:You should have gone for "Clod." I think you mean "Dolce." And Tifa was supposed to be "Au fait", Barret "Beret", and Aeris "Abattoir". And now I'm out of French words and phrases.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:05
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gigglefeimer posted:Better than XII and XIII isn't saying much. Yuna gets kidnapped so many times because her guardians are useless. I didn't care about Wakka's stupid blitzball match. Tidus and Yuna's pairing felt too forced. Everyone was like, hey, they just met and they're two beautiful young people, of course they'll get together! Wakka's a racist rear end in a top hat. Lulu does nothing of importance. Seymour is the stupidest villain ever. Tidus going on about "sin's toxins" was the most awkward thing every single time he uses it as an excuse. Getting transported to the desert made no sense. I thought the thing about Yuna and Tidus getting together was more along the lines of "Don't get too close to her, rear end in a top hat - she ain't gonna be around for long" (or maybe that was just Lulu's thoughts?). And I didn't think it was as awful as Squall and Rinoa, so...  It has been a while since I've played the game, admittedly. The whole thing about Wakka being racist is that he changes to being less of a racist rear end in a top hat over the course of the game. That's not a bad thing. That's development. Shallow development, but development, nonetheless. Sin toxins never bothered me either; I forgot he even used it as an excuse til you brought it up. Things like the Blitzball tornament, and Yuna getting kidnapped. Whatever. A game's a game at the end of the day. Bitzball is simply there as a minigame for the player (gameplay wise), and narratively to provide Tidus with some sense of connection to this unfamiliar world. I say this loving hating Blitzball. And plot's not gonna be very exciting if we safely transport Yuna to Zanarkand without any distractions along the way. Seymour though, yeah. Pretty terrible villain; his design is awful, his motivations are pretty bland. As a secondary villain, he does his job - to provide boss battles and poo poo, but storywise...I don't go much on him. BioMe posted:I almost made an account on that forum just to troll him by arguing the glorious true intention of the Nipponese overlords was obviously "Claude", not "Cloud". Earthisu, Shidu, Balletu, and Bisento. That's the TRUE way the story was meant to be told - accept no substitutes baka gaijin. 
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Dec 11, 2013 00:06
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Personally, my problems where mostly with the characters that weren't Auron. Tidus was unlikeable, his narration was terrible and there were just so many moments where I wanted to strangle him from across the screen. And the other characters were all either terrible or boring. And the worldbuilding! It was so shoddy! I mean, the old Final Fantasies also has poo poo worldbuilding, but they didn't expect me to take their worlds seriously. FFX had a world that made no sense as a place people live in, a jumbled progression of set pieces cobbled together, but I'm somehow expected to take it seriously. And there's the horrible pacing of the game. The beginning is horrendously slow, and then you get on the pilgrimage which flows mostly well except for the loving Guado town where everything screeches to a halt for hours. You also get stuff like being teleported from the ice mountains to the desert for no reasons that are ever explained. The plot twist about Tidus is interesting, except as stated earlier it's completely wasted and the foreshadowing is completely botched. And don't even get me started on the terrible minigames! Lightning dodging! WHARGARBL!!! ...anyway, that's just my opinion and people are free to like this game. Rirse posted:The translation is horrible, but the PS1 version of Final Fantasy V is finally playable on the Vita. Good for a portable fiesta experience. I already have the old anthology version, the GBD port and the iOS port. I don,t need a fifth port of FFV... do I?
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Dec 11, 2013 00:07
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I liked Seymour. People say that the whole "kill everyone to save them" is bland and overused by this point but that's the same crowd that says killing god is something to expect from a JRPG. Neither of those things are really that common. I have played a lot less JRPGs than most but I have still beaten about a dozen or so and there are precisely two that deal with the villain looking to euthanize the universe. Well, okay, three, but one of them wasn't the main villain. (thinking of Grahf) There's also the fact that Seymour isn't just "mwahaha kill everyone!" His character fits in perfectly with the theme of the game which is precisely about a world ensnared by death. In a way, he is seeking to accomplish the exact same thing as the heroes. It's a trait that carries over to XII where Ashe and Vayne both want kind of the same thing but go about it in very different ways. Heh, now I think on it, I thought of Seymour back when I first played FFXII. You might remember that Vayne's first appearance is him making a grand speech about how great and noble he is and totally not a villain. Just like Seymour. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 00:23
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I've always wondered about the awkward transition from the ice land to the desert in FFX. It seemed that the scenario writer had to get the party to the desert to further the plot, but couldn't think of any plausible way or reason for them to get there.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:33
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I always thought it was pretty refreshing that Tidus and Yuna actually got along from the start and had actual conversations where they got to know each other. The romance felt a lot less forced than in any other FF, or any game I can think of right now. Of course there was the whole "Yuna is going to die and doesn't tell Tidus"-thing and but I don't believe that changes anything.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:35
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NikkolasKing posted:I liked Seymour. People say that the whole "kill everyone to save them" is bland and overused by this point but that's the same crowd that says killing god is something to expect from a JRPG. Neither of those things are really that common. I have played a lot less JRPGs than most but I have still beaten about a dozen or so and there are precisely two that deal with the villain looking to euthanize the universe. Well, okay, three, but one of them wasn't the main villain. (thinking of Grahf) There's also the fact that Seymour isn't just "mwahaha kill everyone!" His character fits in perfectly with the theme of the game which is precisely about a world ensnared by death. In a way, he is seeking to accomplish the exact same thing as the heroes. It's a trait that carries over to XII where Ashe and Vayne both want kind of the same thing but go about it in very different ways. Seymour is if anything, the most ardent faithful of the Death Cult that is Yu Yevon. His goal is to become the sacrifice and be the next Sin and destroy the world. It is, however, the ultimate escape though for a being who refuses to die. He has no reason to believe (I think he even says as much) that when he is the last living being on Spira that he will cease to be Sin rather he'll gain immortality and release the world from its endless punishment. If anything, I don't really think Seymour is some arbitrary "I want the world to end" villain because he is specifically an Unsent. He's too attached to living, being great, and being bizarro Tidus who is never able to accept that what he as a child suffered because of his parents was not done out of hate towards him. His master plan seems to be to escape all suffering inflicted by others and his very real fear of the farplane leads him to not want to pass on. He needs to be forever in stasis alone and thats what being Sin will provide.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:40
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Fight Club Sandwich posted:It's dad issues: the game, but because japan your dad is a giant space whale I seem to remember this being the case with the first Star Fox game as well, at least according to the Nintendo Power comics.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:43
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Help. I've contracted the "Random" rule on Triple Triad and I keep spreading it, and can't abolish it. I don't want the one part of the game that I enjoy ruined forever. 
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Dec 11, 2013 00:56
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Fight Club Sandwich posted:It's dad issues: the game, but because japan your dad is a giant space whale and you're some kind of ghost. Yes because how dare fantasy use magic to add allegory and extra dimensions to the plot.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:58
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