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Lotish posted:Worst thing to me is how he gets the new weapon. Oh, the demon is dead, now you have Hulk fists! No kind of explanation, no kind of fanfare, and the weapon has nothing to do with the demon he killed in any way. At least in the other DMCs if the weapons weren't a direct evolution of the boss you killed (like Beowulf's gauntlets being based on how he fought or the three-headed ice-chucks from Cerberus the three headed ice dog) they had some kind of aesthetic similarity (Gilgamesh is scaly like Echidna; Lucifer makes swords and Berial used a sword). How does this boss tie into Hulk hands in any way? Do they give Dante a vomit attack? Getting Alastor might be the best cutscene in the series.
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Dec 17, 2013 21:02
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It just feels like a complete afterthought, like it was stuck in for contractual obligations or something. Capcom: "And when he beats a boss, he gets a new weapon." NT: "Yeah, we can do that." :Boss fight programming finished: NT: "Oh gently caress we forgot to put the weapon in! Just, uh, make his hands and coat merge into giant fists and we'll whip something together!"
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Dec 17, 2013 21:07
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I can't remember if it's ever clarified ingame, but the weapons he gets in 4 are ones that the Order have been collecting over time - Dante doesn't get them from the bosses, as such (like he does in 3), but they're the things powering the hellgate, which let the demons through. I've heard an unverifiable rumour that they were meant to be bosses at one point, but never got developed or whatever. Rumours. v  vThe lack of Dante doing anything with them is just, I dunno...it feels so lifeless. Visually Eryx is pretty unappealling too. Hell, compare Ifrit from DMC1:  to Eryx from DmC:  Why are they so bland? Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 21:13
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Yeah, the new weapon is also disappointing - not thematically related to the Boss and no silly cutscene with Dante using it. I do wonder how the weapon change system in this game works, though.
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Dec 17, 2013 21:14
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Pesky Splinter posted:I can't remember if it's ever clarified ingame, but the weapons he gets in 4 are ones that the Order have been collecting over time - Dante doesn't get them from the bosses, as such (like he does in 3), but they're the things powering the hellgate, which let the demons through. That does make more sense, since he gets them after breaking the gates. I just thought the gates and the bosses were tied together. Makes explaining Pandora easier; otherwise I have to go with the rear end-pull that a giant frog that uses invisibility and literal angler-fish booby-traps is representative of a magic suitcase because they both hide their secret powers in an unassuming, harmless form.
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Dec 17, 2013 21:19
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Lotish posted:That does make more sense, since he gets them after breaking the gates. I just thought the gates and the bosses were tied together. Makes explaining Pandora easier; otherwise I have to go with the rear end-pull that a giant frog that uses invisibility and literal angler-fish booby-traps is representative of a magic suitcase because they both hide their secret powers in an unassuming, harmless form. Of course, getting the guns in the first game could be pretty unexciting. They were usually just lying around the level. Then again, most of them were just ordinary guns so it made some sense. Like finding the grenade launcher on the body of a dead soldier. The giant vomit-bug demon giving you power fists? Less so.
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Dec 17, 2013 23:09
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For me, the worst part isn't even the lazy weapon design or how lame it is when you acquire them, its that the axe is literally the best weapon in the game. And you start with it. And later on you get an angel weapon that is objectively the best too. In previous games, some weapons were slightly better than others but they were all useful, had their own niches and were fun to use. Here there is no real reason to use anything besides the axe and an angel weapon for the immunity.
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Dec 17, 2013 23:24
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Pesky Splinter posted:
I don't understand the hate towards bankers, but a substitute Ben Bernanke would have made a more logical cover for Mundus to take. He threatened to crash the stock market if the government tried to do its job and audit the Fed. Christ is King! Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Dec 18, 2013 |
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Dec 18, 2013 08:17
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Eryx is probably the fugliest weapon in the game, but on the other hand it's tied with Rebellion as one of the best balanced weapons for Dante. I'll write up some movelist stuff once Bumfluff gets around to using it.
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Dec 18, 2013 08:26
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Been catching up with this lately. This Devil May Cry just seems...mean-spirited, really. Intent on grossing you out and going for shock in the most juvenile way. I've only played through 4 and watched some of 3, but 'mean-spirited' seems like the farthest possible description from those games. Old Dante was always there to have a loving blast - New Dante just feels like he wants everyone to think that he has the biggest dick in the room.
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Dec 18, 2013 09:13
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Lotish posted:Worst thing to me is how he gets the new weapon. Oh, the demon is dead, now you have Hulk fists! No kind of explanation, no kind of fanfare, and the weapon has nothing to do with the demon he killed in any way. At least in the other DMCs if the weapons weren't a direct evolution of the boss you killed (like Beowulf's gauntlets being based on how he fought or the three-headed ice-chucks from Cerberus the three headed ice dog) they had some kind of aesthetic similarity (Gilgamesh is scaly like Echidna; Lucifer makes swords and Berial used a sword). How does this boss tie into Hulk hands in any way? Do they give Dante a vomit attack? The best thing, in DMC3 and 4 especially, was when you get a new weapon you also get Dante messing around with the weapon or playing around with it in some degree and it's almost always hilarious. Dante in DmC goes "Oh cool, hulk hands." and that's that.
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Dec 18, 2013 09:15
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Spiritus Nox posted:Been catching up with this lately. You haven't seen anything yet.
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Dec 18, 2013 09:58
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What's always bothered me the most about THAT cutscene before the slurm queen was "MY NAME, by the way, IS DANTE" I'm fully aware of how  this is.
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Dec 18, 2013 10:03
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That cutscene was wretched, but I wanted to touch on the complaints about the game being too convenient/forgiving. It's true that games nowadays are usually designed to be streamlined experiences from cutscene to cutscene, but that has never been the case with Devil May Cry. This series has always been about technical, fast-paced combat against dangerous enemies. Ranking systems were always actually challenging. I can't even believe the extent to which this is not the case! They could have given the game Mario 3's story but kept the original DMC combat and it would have been less of a departure.
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Dec 18, 2013 11:02
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Spiritus Nox posted:New Dante just feels like he wants everyone to think that he has the biggest dick in the room. Spoilers: He doesn't.
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Dec 18, 2013 12:10
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GilliamYaeger posted:Spoilers: He doesn't. Okay now I'm really looking forward to the part of the game that confirms that. How childish can they possibly get I wonder.
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Dec 18, 2013 12:23
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Personally I thought that it was one of the better written scenes in the game
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Dec 18, 2013 13:15
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darealkooky posted:Personally I thought that it was one of the better written scenes in the game A bar so high you could stub your toe on it.
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Dec 18, 2013 13:55
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George posted:That cutscene was wretched, but I wanted to touch on the complaints about the game being too convenient/forgiving. It's true that games nowadays are usually designed to be streamlined experiences from cutscene to cutscene, but that has never been the case with Devil May Cry. This series has always been about technical, fast-paced combat against dangerous enemies. Ranking systems were always actually challenging. I can't even believe the extent to which this is not the case! They could have given the game Mario 3's story but kept the original DMC combat and it would have been less of a departure. You know what's really sad? Castlevania Lords of Shadows got an even worse reception than DmC, when it's everything DmC isn't. Lords of Shadow has downright insane enemy variety - they literally have an entirely new set of enemies every couple of levels. They have the same platforming sequences, but executed just slightly better. And unlike DmC, Lords of Shadow is hard as balls, and really rewards perfect play. And seriously, the amount of enemy variety in that game puts almost any other game in the same genre to shame. If both games hadn't been named after a beloved franchise, Lords of Shadow would have been hailed as an almost perfectly executed game, with terrible voice acting (in most places), while DmC would have been called an above average brawler with great art direction. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Dec 18, 2013 |
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Dec 18, 2013 14:33
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DatonKallandor posted:You know what's really sad? Castlevania Lords of Shadows got even worse reviews than DmC, when it's everything DmC isn't. Lords of Shadow has downright insane enemy variety - they literally have an entirely new set of enemies every couple of levels. They have the same platforming sequences, but executed just slightly better. And unlike DmC, Lords of Shadow is hard as balls, and really rewards perfect play. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, there's plenty not to like in both games, their ostensibly being a part of a franchise non-withstanding.
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Dec 18, 2013 14:36
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DatonKallandor posted:You know what's really sad? Castlevania Lords of Shadows got an even worse reception than DmC, when it's everything DmC isn't. Lords of Shadow has downright insane enemy variety - they literally have an entirely new set of enemies every couple of levels. They have the same platforming sequences, but executed just slightly better. And unlike DmC, Lords of Shadow is hard as balls, and really rewards perfect play. Lords of Shadow was only difficult because the enemies were all unflinching meat walls until you got one of the broke-rear end super abilities, and the enemies consisted of the exact same three types (with the same attacks, no less!) with a bunch of different skins. It was a bad lovely title with very pretty graphics, so the only real difference between it and DmC is that Lords of Shadow has Patrick Stewart saying the phrase "long and hard" with a straight face.
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Dec 18, 2013 15:14
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Man, there sure are a lot of riffs on that succubus cutscene. I guess I'll add in my personal favorite: Donté, el exterminador de demonios I'm really having a hard time taking anything in this game seriously.
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Dec 18, 2013 16:21
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Seer235 posted:Man, there sure are a lot of riffs on that succubus cutscene. I guess I'll add in my personal favorite: I can neither imagine how much work it would take to have an option to play the entire game like this, nor how much I would love for that to be a thing.
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Dec 18, 2013 17:58
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Seer235 posted:Man, there sure are a lot of riffs on that succubus cutscene. I guess I'll add in my personal favorite: 
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Dec 18, 2013 18:03
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Nihilarian posted:Why aren't we playing this version again? There was not enough time. Not enough mariachis. There's another one for the final boss and it's even better.
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Dec 18, 2013 18:29
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darealkooky posted:What's always bothered me the most about THAT cutscene before the slurm queen was "MY NAME, by the way, IS DANTE" Here, have old Dante and Nero be dorks about it instead.  Original here. Strange Quark fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 18, 2013 |
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Dec 18, 2013 18:46
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Oxxidation posted:There was not enough time. Not enough mariachis. Better? More like best. It's so good, I almost considered buying this game. That's high praise. You really need to do that fight with the mod, even if only as a bonus.
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Dec 18, 2013 18:49
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It's probably worth mentioning that due to the holidays there wont be an update for a while. Sorry!
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Dec 18, 2013 19:01
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Seer235 posted:Man, there sure are a lot of riffs on that succubus cutscene. I guess I'll add in my personal favorite: So much classier than the actual update.
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Dec 18, 2013 19:02
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As much as this game got wrong, there were a lot of things it did right. The best thing about it were the generous tip and help screens that actually bother to explain the game mechanics and gave examples on how to effectively use them. Previous DMC games have very obscure mechanics that had to be discovered on accident. Hell in the first game you didn't even have a combo list and would never know about the useful pause combos unless you happen to use one by accident. DMC3 was really bad about this, with things like enemy step and DT explosions.
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Dec 18, 2013 19:45
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Spiritus Nox posted:So much classier than the actual update. I know, right? I'm not fluent in Spanish, but it feels much more lighthearted and arguably better acted than the original.
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Dec 18, 2013 19:46
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Lotish posted:I know, right? I'm not fluent in Spanish, but it feels much more lighthearted and arguably better acted than the original. It is, however, still hurt by the way it reminds me that Old Dante was much more likely than this one to burst into flamenco dancing at any given point.
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Dec 18, 2013 19:58
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notZaar posted:As much as this game got wrong, there were a lot of things it did right. The best thing about it were the generous tip and help screens that actually bother to explain the game mechanics and gave examples on how to effectively use them. Previous DMC games have very obscure mechanics that had to be discovered on accident. Hell in the first game you didn't even have a combo list and would never know about the useful pause combos unless you happen to use one by accident. DMC3 was really bad about this, with things like enemy step and DT explosions. Yeah it bears repeating that when it comes to the genre it's in DmC isn't bad in terms gameplay - it's just not great. Someone who's played DmC will absolutely learn how combat in these games works, and that person will learn enough to notice when a game in the same genre is better or worse than DmC. It would be a great introductory Action-Slashy Game if it wasn't for the vile story.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:37
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Lotish posted:I know, right? I'm not fluent in Spanish, but it feels much more lighthearted and arguably better acted than the original. It was a bit jarring though hearing the Spanish dialogue and then the Succubus starts screaming with the English voice. That just seems really sloppy to me. Why would you leave something like that in? Also I'm not sure that the French and I think Italian versions were aware that Succubus was supposed to be female.
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Dec 19, 2013 03:03
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notZaar posted:As much as this game got wrong, there were a lot of things it did right. The best thing about it were the generous tip and help screens that actually bother to explain the game mechanics and gave examples on how to effectively use them. Previous DMC games have very obscure mechanics that had to be discovered on accident. Hell in the first game you didn't even have a combo list and would never know about the useful pause combos unless you happen to use one by accident. DMC3 was really bad about this, with things like enemy step and DT explosions. Honestly, I agree with this. I'd love for the next DMC game (if its ever made) to include something along these lines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRH1FVkwTNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFNnz29VFk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YALYaSVjyBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOIc5m6PwNY Just several really in-depth playable tutorials that get you up to speed with advanced playing techniques, because if there's any game that really needs a tutorial its DMC.
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Dec 19, 2013 07:12
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I don't know. Jump cancelling has always felt like cheating in both DMC 3 and 4 because of how it utterly trivializes all enemies that can't hone in on you while you're in the air. Dodging and situational awareness? gently caress that, lets just hover in mid air indefinitely and spam out the same combo over and over again.  It's a lot better in 4 than 3 though as those videos clearly demonstrate. In 3 it's just asinine you can just do just the one move and keep canceling it. Where I'm going with this is that you really don't need jump canceling and other advanced techniques for the lower difficulties. They're really useful for score runs and higher difficulties but not knowing about them is hardly going to hinder you from enjoying or beating the game. Now Nero's gun and motor-blade on the other hand. There's something that needed a real tutorial. 
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Dec 19, 2013 09:12
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If you haven't clicked this link you are missing out.
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Dec 19, 2013 09:28
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notZaar posted:As much as this game got wrong, there were a lot of things it did right. The best thing about it were the generous tip and help screens that actually bother to explain the game mechanics and gave examples on how to effectively use them. Previous DMC games have very obscure mechanics that had to be discovered on accident. Hell in the first game you didn't even have a combo list and would never know about the useful pause combos unless you happen to use one by accident. DMC3 was really bad about this, with things like enemy step and DT explosions. DMC3 actually had a pretty thorough in-game tutorial system. The problem was it was clunky and slow to use, and also a lot of the high technology in that game (like killer bee canceling) came from exploits.
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Dec 19, 2013 09:50
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I wouldn't say JC feels like cheating; if anything, if you're at the level where you can lock a dude down in an air combo indefinitely, the game probably isn't a challenge to you anymore in terms of not getting hit. At that point, you're probably looking to achieve something else entirely with your combos, so it's all subjective. I'm confident in saying, though, that part of why JC is very powerful in DMC3 & 4 is that you usually end up inadvertently messing with the enemy AI since the camera is focused on you and your target while in the air. If they're off camera, most enemies won't attack at all. It doesn't help that not all enemies in 3 can attack above them; for example, Seven Sin waves without Abysses or higher difficulty Lusts have no anti-air whatsoever. Giving every (?) enemy in 4 an anti-air move did a lot in making sure Dante's Style-switching and Nero's affinity for floating aren't brain-dead strengths. And yeah, Nero's ACT system totally could've used a tutorial. I didn't even know about revving on strikes after I beat the game once!
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Dec 19, 2013 14:19
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All I know is that Nero's dumb gun needed an auto-charge so I didn't have to hold down the trigger while I was doing other stuff, that was annoying. Maybe make it an upgrade or something, I dunno. It was more annoying than adding any genuine difficulty to the gameplay.
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Dec 19, 2013 19:24
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