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quote:Difficulty Level: 5/10 But really, playable Eggman might actually make this game somewhat worthwhile.
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Jan 1, 2014 04:17
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Hoisted by my own petard! Sooner or later, I'll nitpick grammar in an update without loving up grammar myself.
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Jan 1, 2014 04:36
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So, I take it that I'm the only one that noticed that Cream's profile said that she was a member of "Team Amy" instead of the accurate name of "Team Rose"? I feel kinda awkward about that now. TwoPair posted:
On the other hand, this is the perfect line to save for last. 
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Jan 1, 2014 06:58
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: My face itches.
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:On the other hand, this is the perfect line to save for last. Creme and Big especially tend to have the best lines in these segments.
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Jan 1, 2014 07:03
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You can tell this is software that had just reached the end of beta testing. Sega probably told them out of nowhere they had a month or two to deliver something playable or they're canning the project. They focused on making sure it didn't crash and making sure it was completable, then just assembled the non-essential assets out of rough drafts and chewing gum because that's all they had time to do. It's certainly not a new story to anyone familiar with how game development works, but it's pretty sad to see from two companies who should have their poo poo together.
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Jan 1, 2014 08:21
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:It's certainly not a new story to anyone familiar with how game development works, but it's pretty sad to see from two companies who should have their poo poo together. Yeah, when I first heard about it back in 2006 I was overjoyed because "Hey, I like Neverwinter Nights, and I like sonic, there is no way this could possibly fail!" But I'm sure Sega was used to DIMPS' turnaround times on GBA and DS Games, and Dark Brotherhood was Bioware's first handheld title. The fact that they ran into problems with the sound design late in the game and probably got some pressure from Sega to get it out on time and budget just make the bad parts stand out more.
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Jan 1, 2014 08:53
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:So, I take it that I'm the only one that noticed that Cream's profile said that she was a member of "Team Amy" instead of the accurate name of "Team Rose"? I noticed, but I gave it a pass for being close enough.
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Jan 1, 2014 09:06
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Kurieg posted:Yeah, when I first heard about it back in 2006 I was overjoyed because "Hey, I like Neverwinter Nights, and I like sonic, there is no way this could possibly fail!" Yeah, whatever happened with the sound design was definitely a stumbling block. I don't know if the rumors are true, or if they didn't know how to optimize for the DS and they didn't have the time to find out. I can't say I know the details, so maybe Bioware was being too ambitious with the project and Sega told them to wrap it up. At the same time, you'd think it'd be smart to give them the time to put some drat polish on the thing. This is exactly the sort of stuff people hated about '06, and they thought this was ready to ship. I mean, I could go on for days about Sega making dumbass decisions but at this point it's really no secret.
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Jan 1, 2014 09:38
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I'm sorry but even if you "Polished" this, the game is still a turd. The combat is unfun, the quests are boring, the game is slow and poorly controlled, and the story... well being better than your source material doesn't make it good. The characters are all somehow out of character despite this being Sonic, and the characters being the easiest thing in the world to grasp, The only person in character is Big the Cat because "Chill as gently caress Cat" is really impossible to screw up. They really are trying to push everyone into the typical bioware party mold and this is never more apparent until someone joins later. Ontop of the combat just being bad, it gets really tedious and painful by the end. You could polish this all you want but it doesn't change that the core systems behind it are poor.
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Jan 1, 2014 09:49
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Onmi posted:I'm sorry but even if you "Polished" this, the game is still a turd. The combat is unfun, the quests are boring, the game is slow and poorly controlled, and the story... well being better than your source material doesn't make it good. The underlying system is certainly flawed, but a lot of people will overlook mediocre mechanics if you've got everything else in place. I don't really think this game was ever going to be great (Bioware was a very odd choice), but I've seen plenty of people in this thread that don't think the gameplay was all that bad. Another couple months on their deadline and the game probably would have looked and sounded far better. I can see why Sega might have thought cutting their losses would be the better option, hoping this game would just fly under the radar, but people were sure to make a big deal out of it after '06 and it's not like the franchise was in good shape even before that.
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Jan 1, 2014 10:17
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Onmi posted:I'm sorry but even if you "Polished" this, the game is still a turd. The combat is unfun, the quests are boring, the game is slow and poorly controlled, and the story... well being better than your source material doesn't make it good. Actually Big the Cat is one of the things pretty much everyone agrees Bioware improved, by making him entirely out of character. He's still a moron, but now he's funny about it.
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Jan 1, 2014 10:57
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Dr. Buttass posted:Actually Big the Cat is one of the things pretty much everyone agrees Bioware improved, by making him entirely out of character. He's still a moron, but now he's funny about it. You literally just contradicted yourself. "Funny Moron" is not completely out of character for "Moron". It's the exact same character, because Big the Cats single definition is "I don't give a gently caress about anything but my frog" That is the one trait that defines Big, he will go through hell and high water for his loving frog and he cares jack poo poo about everything else. Also, I said Big the Cat was the one character actually IN character. They've all devolved into whatever groups Bioware can push them into, except for Big, who's DTGAF is pretty much impossible to screw up. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:The underlying system is certainly flawed, but a lot of people will overlook mediocre mechanics if you've got everything else in place. I don't really think this game was ever going to be great (Bioware was a very odd choice), but I've seen plenty of people in this thread that don't think the gameplay was all that bad. Another couple months on their deadline and the game probably would have looked and sounded far better. I want you to try playing a rhythm game in a train or a long car ride. These are not games you play when the slightest bump will gently caress you up, and in a game who's combat is entirely designed around it the game is just impossible. Given another year that wasn't going to change. The plot's basis is one of the most retarded things to hit the Sonic franchise, It is literally the production of a creepy rear end crazy man, and I refuse to say anything more until everything is said and done with the reveals. Time wasn't going to change this. The control scheme is a pain in the rear end, so unless Bioware at some point would go "The D-Pad! That's still a thing" that wasn't going to change with Time. The only thing that could have potetnially gotten better were Art assets and music assets. If you can forgive a game for looking and sounding pretty when everything else is the shits... good for you I guess. I can't. The core concepts are flaws, and time can not cure that. You might have gotten a merely mediocre game instead of "horrible" but it was never going to be good.
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Jan 1, 2014 12:33
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Onmi posted:You might have gotten a merely mediocre game instead of "horrible" but it was never going to be good. Well yeah, this is what I've been saying. I don't hate this game quite as much as you seem to, but it certainly sucks. I think you're also underestimating how much a quick rewrite could help, if nothing else, the characters sound like themselves (though honestly most of these characters have such one-note personalities to begin with I can't even care). They could definitely add some things to explain the mechanics better in a short amount of time. Keep in mind the hypothetical goal here isn't to out-do Mass Effect, or even those Mario and Luigi games, but to simply make a game that makes fans say "Okay, I guess that last Sonic game was a weird fluke". That way, Sonic games don't give the impression of hot garbage. This simple goal was hosed up royally and I can't imagine Bioware wanted to release it that way.
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Jan 1, 2014 12:57
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I can't imagine Bioware wanted to release it that way. Why not? the last couple of games they've released have all been hot garbage, and they spend the credit sequence of this game jerking themselves off. I think they were just glad to be out of the contract.
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Jan 1, 2014 13:49
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Lord_Ventnor posted:Gotta use both Eggman and Cream next chapter. No exceptions.
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Jan 1, 2014 13:50
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TwoPair posted:
 
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Jan 1, 2014 16:30
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: It just looks bad, I tell you. I was young when I made those old robots! Young and full of beans!
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately thought of Mean Bean Machine when Robotnik delivered that line. The Google Earth bit was a nice touch as well.
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Jan 1, 2014 18:01
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How did I miss that reference? I'll admit that was pretty funny.
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Jan 1, 2014 18:11
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I really like the writing in this game, at least as much as we've seen so far. Out-of-character or not, a lot of it is fun to read. Much more so than the standard Sonic fare, certainly.
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Jan 1, 2014 18:47
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Darn I was hoping you would record the part where they run into Shadow. He makes a freaking turkey noise for some reason!
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Jan 1, 2014 18:57
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Calling it now: If we have playable Eggman, he's going to need Tails for at least one of his moves (because that's blindingly obvious). I know next to nothing about the Sonic franchise in general, so all this in/out-of-character talk is beyond me.
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Jan 1, 2014 23:41
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Onmi posted:You literally just contradicted yourself. "Funny Moron" is not completely out of character for "Moron". It's the exact same character, because Big the Cats single definition is "I don't give a gently caress about anything but my frog" That is the one trait that defines Big, he will go through hell and high water for his loving frog and he cares jack poo poo about everything else. Yeah but he wasn't funny before. Being funny is new. And out of character. Yapping Eevee posted:Calling it now: If we have playable Eggman, he's going to need Tails for at least one of his moves (because that's blindingly obvious). Yeah he does. That's not even a spoiler. It's that blindingly obvious because it happens. quote:I know next to nothing about the Sonic franchise in general, so all this in/out-of-character talk is beyond me. They're not exactly "in-character", but it's not really entirely Bioware's fault. They had a DIMPS-level time frame to make the game, they weren't very familiar with the characters, and the franchise isn't exactly known for grade-A writing to begin with (remember the discussion earlier in the thread about Rouge?). I think given more time, and access to whoever it was that would later do the writing for Colors and Generations, this game could have actually had really good writing if nothing else. Onmi seems to have some kind of beef with Bioware set apart from anything related to this game, so I'd take his opinion with a grain of salt. Dr. Buttass fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 1, 2014 23:50
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Dr. Buttass posted:Yeah but he wasn't funny before. Being funny is new. And out of character. No. Tenebrais posted:I really like the writing in this game, at least as much as we've seen so far. Out-of-character or not, a lot of it is fun to read. Much more so than the standard Sonic fare, certainly.  If you like this games writing, then you would love the comics as they are written by Ian Flynn. Onmi fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 00:10
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Dr. Buttass posted:They had a DIMPS-level time frame to make the game I'm sorry, but "DIMPS"?
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Jan 2, 2014 01:08
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DIMPS is the developer that made the portable sonic games from Sonic Advance up to Generations (not sure if they did the latest one). The Advance games were pretty good, but from what I gather they went down-hill with Unleashed and their version of Generations was terrible.
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Jan 2, 2014 01:17
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berryjon posted:I'm sorry, but "DIMPS"? They're basically code-monkeys like TOSE that make games for bigger companies. They have their own designers and artists but the companies dictate and come up with the backbone of the game. Every portable title since Sonic Advance (or Sonic Pocket Adventure if you've heard of it) has been made by them, with the exceptions of Sonic Battle (made entirely by Sega) and (made by Jupiter I believe, who worked with Nintendo on Pokemon Pinball and Square Enix on The World Ends with You). DIMPS also made Sonic 4 and helped out with the Wii versions of Sonic Unleashed. They're basically as good at what they do as the instructions they're given, and Sega tends to let them take care of level design and game physics themselves. On the other hand, Capcom worked much closer with them on Street Fighter IV and that resulted in a much tighter product. ElPottoGrande posted:Oi. Actually, the script I was shown didn't cover any of the side missions, so going in all I knew was that Sonic had to face some "trials." Playing it for myself, once I got to the "Trial of Love" (or whatever it was called) I honestly stopped for a moment, confused. Was this a trick? Was it a joke? No... they honestly gave the player this choice. I... words fail me. If it's an earlier draft I'd be interested to hear about any changes. That trainwreck's development always fascinated me.
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Jan 2, 2014 01:25
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:This post's from a while back, but did you guys receive the same excel file that got leaked a month or so before the game came out? The one with the English and Japanese script and character bios with the prototype Silver art? I remember the bios had some weird stuff in them, like Mephiles being sealed in Shadow while he was sealed away and being responsible for his "murderous" behavior. And something about Blaze that was creepy but I forget what. There's a fascinating* bit of cut content trivia relating to some of the NPCs, but it's directly tied to the shocking reveal in the next chapter (I think) so I'll be mum until then. As for SEGA working with BioWare - I can't even pretend to know what that working relationship was like. But it recently came to light that the two writers for the recent run of games (Colors, Generations, Lost World) wrote it with no series bible. All of their understanding of the Sonic universe came from them looking at stuff online. I don't know if that reflects back to how this game was developed, but it does make you wonder. (*"fascinating" to someone who makes a living off of/spends an unhealthy amount of time dealing with hedgehog trivia)
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Jan 2, 2014 04:56
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Yapping Eevee posted:Calling it now: If we have playable Eggman, he's going to need Tails for at least one of his moves (because that's blindingly obvious). Yes actually! I really should've tacked this on to the end of the update, but here's the codex info/moves about Eggman:  
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Jan 2, 2014 06:38
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TwoPair actually brought up another one of this game's sins: Eggman is the only non-permanent party member in the game. There are two reasons for this: the plot justification and the actual reason. I'll go into these more when we get to them.
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Jan 2, 2014 07:17
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Onmi posted:No. Uhh, why did you give Off Panel as an example? Those are purposely taking the piss out of the comic.
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Jan 2, 2014 07:25
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Cheez posted:Uhh, why did you give Off Panel as an example? Those are purposely taking the piss out of the comic. because I had it pre-sliced, and really didn't want to go through the effort of scanning the new issues involving big the cat beating up Silver Sonic. I had a few other things but I posted them earlier in the thread.
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Jan 2, 2014 07:28
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Why is Cream wielding a knife?  Non-violent type my rear end.With that face, how could Sonic NOT trust him?
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Jan 2, 2014 07:57
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With Eggman introducing a instakill move vs. robots, does it mean, you won't see any of those for a few chapters?
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Jan 2, 2014 08:07
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If I recall correctly there aren't any robots for a bit but then there's a dungeon-y type area filled with them where that move is a godsend. Of course, it's been four or five years since I last played this game.
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Jan 2, 2014 08:25
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majormonotone posted:If I recall correctly there aren't any robots for a bit but then there's a dungeon-y type area filled with them where that move is a godsend. I remember it being basically useless, because Bombardment is amazing, and after every one else has their turn, Eggman doing that clears the field?
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Jan 2, 2014 10:18
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ElPottoGrande posted:I don't recall, honestly. And I'd hesitate to confirm anything because everything pre-Generations was notorious for leaks, and I don't want anything pointing to me. Mainly what it makes me wonder is, what the hell happened? I haven't had a chance to play Lost World yet but I'm told it fell into the same "candy-colored animals having deep grimdark serious problems" trap that made '06 such an unbearable piece of poo poo. Those guys were doing a great job with Colors and Generations (especially for not having a series bible. Or maybe because of it), who looked at the work they did on those games and the fan response and went, "Not good enough! F minus minus! Try again when you can make the HR director hate himself"?
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Jan 2, 2014 11:41
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Dr. Buttass posted:Mainly what it makes me wonder is, what the hell happened? I haven't had a chance to play Lost World yet but I'm told it fell into the same "candy-colored animals having deep grimdark serious problems" trap that made '06 such an unbearable piece of poo poo. Those guys were doing a great job with Colors and Generations (especially for not having a series bible. Or maybe because of it), who looked at the work they did on those games and the fan response and went, "Not good enough! F minus minus! Try again when you can make the HR director hate himself"? Lost World is nothing like 2006. It's more like Sonic Colors but with a couple moments where they try to be more serious. And when I say moments, I mean moments. It's still saturday morning cartoon fare, nothing more.
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Jan 2, 2014 11:47
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Dr. Buttass posted:I haven't had a chance to play Lost World yet but I'm told it fell into the same "candy-colored animals having deep grimdark serious problems" trap that made '06 such an unbearable piece of poo poo. No. Not at all. How could you ever look at Lost World and think it's anything like 06? you would have to have a problem with their being a plot at all to be pissed off at Lost Worlds plot. Sonic should be drat well allowed to have pixar-tier romps of adventure, and if people seriously can't stomach a plot like that in a Sonic game they really have problems. That's what Lost Worlds, Colours and hell, Unleashed, All have in common.
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Jan 2, 2014 11:50
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Onmi posted:No. Not at all. How could you ever look at Lost World and think it's anything like 06? you would have to have a problem with their being a plot at all to be pissed off at Lost Worlds plot. You are just a tiny ball of unrestrained, self-important rage, aren't you?
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Jan 2, 2014 12:57
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Dr. Buttass posted:You are just a tiny ball of unrestrained, self-important rage, aren't you? Tiny?
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Jan 2, 2014 13:01
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