|
Danger posted:What does an actual fascist undercurrent look like? Perhaps a flowing river of swastikas?
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 00:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
Haha holy poo poo there is a Canadian Jaeger and it's name is Hoser loving Mountie?! How have I not seen this until now?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:16
|
|
|
Nobody tell him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
Too late 
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:30
|
|
|
Grey Fox V2 posted:Too late It'll always be real in our hearts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:39
|
|
|
Grey Fox V2 posted:Haha holy poo poo there is a Canadian Jaeger and it's name is Hoser loving Mountie?! How have I not seen this until now? And it's powered by maple syrup and poutine, eh. Ninja edit: Now I'm craving poutine even though I live in Miami. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 01:41
|
|
|
Danger posted:What does an actual fascist undercurrent look like? Like the opposite of red tide, of course 
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 03:13
|
|
|
Danger posted:What does an actual fascist undercurrent look like? Millions of dead dissidents and undesirables?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 03:14
|
|
|
Grey Fox V2 posted:Too late Ours is actually called Chrome Brutus, which is pretty decent, all things considered.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 03:45
|
|
|
I thought there was Brawler Yukon too?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 03:52
|
|
|
There was actually a Canadian Jaeger?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 03:58
|
|
Grey Fox V2 posted:There was actually a Canadian Jaeger? The first Jaeger to kill a Kaiju, even  
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 04:03
|
|
|
I'm guessing this was some extended universe/in a novelization stuff?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Clipperton posted:The first Jaeger to kill a Kaiju, even Sorry mate, but Brawler Yukon was ONE-HUNNERD PERCENT AMURRICAN  As for the actual Canadian Jaeger, there unfortunately isn't anymore info on Chrome Brutus except that its pilots were Inuit cousins named Ilisapie Flint and Zeke Amarok. Grey Fox V2 posted:I'm guessing this was some extended universe/in a novelization stuff? Yep, though the stuff I just mentioned specifically came from Travis Beacham's Tumblr.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 04:23
|
|
|
Clipperton posted:The first Jaeger to kill a Kaiju, even Named after a Canadian territory, deployed in Vancouver, 100 American. I remember reading about a planned Tacit Ronin based graphic novel. I hope that we get more comics that show off the other Jaegers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 05:29
|
|
|
After reading Beacham's Tweet about the annihilation of all Jaegers I have to wonder what the hell Del Toro will do if a Pacific Rim sequel is ever made.Doctor Bishop posted:Yep, though the stuff I just mentioned specifically came from Travis Beacham's Tumblr. http://pacificrim.wikia.com/wiki/Chrome_Brutus
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 06:35
|
|
|
Grey Fox V2 posted:Haha holy poo poo there is a Canadian Jaeger and it's name is Hoser loving Mountie?! How have I not seen this until now? Well now I want a sequel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2014 09:13
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
What if they're both? You know, after millions of people died...
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2014 09:40
|
|
|
Wizchine posted:What if they're both? You know, after millions of people died... By focussing on merely exterminating/containing the 'inhuman' invaders, the protagonists ensure that nothing is actually solved on Earth. The (very superficial) unity against the kaiju was only a temporary truce. With the kaiju gone, new crises will inevitably emerge - if they haven't already. More Jaegers will be built, and they will be turned against the still-impoverished population, those countries that don't have Jagers.... Recall the key point that Kaiju World is Earth, the rift being a looking-glass that shows Earth's future. The end of the film involves merely breaking this mirror to prevent any self-reflection. It's not a good ending.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2014 10:32
|
|
|
I think stopping the extermination of humanity counts as solving a problem.quote:Recall the key point that Kaiju World is Earth, the rift being a looking-glass that shows Earth's future. If you hold "The other world is our future" as true doesn't that also include the end result of humanity after Pacific Rim being a united collective hive-mind, regardless of the crises that occur in the interim? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jan 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2014 16:30
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
I think that you're saying this allegorically, but it's also possible literally. After all, there was that terrible show Terra Nova which was literally about humans in the future going into the past to consume more resources. The next movie is supposed to feature Jaeger/Kaiju hybrids. If the humans start making biological Kaiju and earth continues to be polluted by the kaiju, humans may have to biologically alter themselves to continue to survive. Not all humans will want to do this, so there will be civil war. The biologically altered side with the stronger kaiju that uses drift technology to create a hive mind will win by pure efficiency. Now we have a Terminator/Skynet paradox except that rather than creating our enemy because it is our nature, we have become our own enemy because it is our nature. I'm don't actually think this is the origin of the Kaiju and their master race. You can call it a completely stupid theory if you want, but each element of it already exists in other media of our culture, which means those ideas are present in our society. Art imitates life imitates art etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2014 18:56
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I think stopping the extermination of humanity counts as solving a problem. I never said fascism doesn't work - trains running on time, and all that. The central point of Heinlein's Starship Troopers, after all, is that fascism simply works adequately. In a proper film, however, characters would be fighting to prevent the future. Kaiju World is the same as Skynet, Krypton, and - more to the point - the advanced prehistoric civilizations in Gamera: Guardian of the Universe and Godzilla. Both Godzilla and Gamera are fighting to prevent the apocalypse from happening 'again': prevent history from repeating itself. You'll note that, in all these stories, the monster rises to become the hero. It's because these are all variations on the Christ myth. Pacific Rim is no different, except that it sides against Christ. The gag with the baby Kaiju is as if, upon landing, Kal-El had a probe rammed into his baby skull.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:I never said fascism doesn't work - trains running on time, and all that It's important to remember that the trains didn't actually run on time; the popular image of "trains running on time" is down to something that fascists were generally actually good at - propaganda. vvv It's an Italian fascist thing, not a Nazi thing MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2014 21:23
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:It's important to remember that the trains didn't actually run on time; the popular image of "trains running on time" is down to something that fascists were generally actually good at - propaganda. Yeah, I also hear the destinations were pretty lovely too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:By focussing on merely exterminating/containing the 'inhuman' invaders, the protagonists ensure that nothing is actually solved on Earth. The (very superficial) unity against the kaiju was only a temporary truce. With the kaiju gone, new crises will inevitably emerge - if they haven't already. More Jaegers will be built, and they will be turned against the still-impoverished population, those countries that don't have Jagers....
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 05:55
|
|
|
What we really need is 250 more pages of toys to get this back on track.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 14:03
|
|
|
What we really really need is 250 pages of baller art. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 14:43
|
|
|
quote:You'll note that, in all these stories, the monster rises to become the hero. It's because these are all variations on the Christ myth. Pacific Rim is no different, except that it sides against Christ. The gag with the baby Kaiju is as if, upon landing, Kal-El had a probe rammed into his baby skull. I've never watched Gamera and have only seen Godzilla 2000 and US Godzilla, but I thought the second was an allegory about nukes, not that Godzilla was Christ. Danger posted:What we really need is 250 more pages of toys to get this back on track. Did we ever call the toys fascist? We could do that next.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 15:29
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I've never watched Gamera and have only seen Godzilla 2000 and US Godzilla, but I thought the second was an allegory about nukes, not that Godzilla was Christ. Every Honda-directed Godzilla film is better than Pacific Rim, so watch them already. Godzilla slowly transitions from being an apocalyptic menace to being a follower of Christ. Like he literally teams up with Christ, aka Mothra, to fight the Dragon of Revelation. Gamera: Guardian of the Universe is also probably the best kaiju film ever made.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
Are there other movies (non anime) with elbow rockets?
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:Are there other movies (non anime) with elbow rockets? Iron man? Not quite an elbow rocket though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Wait, what's the evidence that Kaiju World is Earth? I don't remember anything in the movie implying that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
Artless Meat posted:Iron man? Not quite an elbow rocket though. Forearm rocket, really.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
Crows Turn Off posted:Wait, what's the evidence that Kaiju World is Earth? I don't remember anything in the movie implying that. I rad the fact that the portal is located in a deep crevasse which lead yet deeper into the Earth as "return to the womb" symbolism. Granted, I also saw the fact that they had to commune with the kaiju to learn that you needed kaiju DNA to open the portal as symbolizing the need to embrace your enemy (kind of the theme of the movie) in order to purge the sacred heart of the planet from neoliberal contamination for the good of humanity and the kaiju. So I sort of got something different from the movie than did SMG.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
Danger posted:What we really need is 250 more pages of toys to get this back on track. Look how loving cool this is. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2014 00:19
|
|
|
Crows Turn Off posted:Wait, what's the evidence that Kaiju World is Earth? I don't remember anything in the movie implying that. No literal evidence at all. There's a little anxiety about global warming and pollution transforming the world into exactly what the Kaiju masters want, though, which thematically links future Earth (ruined by humanity) with Kaiju world (ruined, presumably, by Kaiju masters). SMG draws on this (and maybe a few other hints I haven't thought of) to draw a single unified theme from it all, which he disagrees with, and therefore calls it a bad movie. I have the opposite problem; Pacific Rim is super-muddled and has a lot of little thematic hints that all clash with each other. The imagery of the wall-builders and the role/design of the Jaeger pilots themselves suggests a kind of "working class hero" aesthetic, like Earth's best hope is this unwanted detritus class of laborers and robot jockeys abandoned by politicians and the rich. But it never goes anywhere with this, and at the same time, the fact that Jaeger pilots were formerly celebrities and hero-soldiers beloved by the media kind of goes the opposite direction. Similarly, there are a few scenes to suggest the Kaiju are somehow victimized, pathetic -- the birthing scene that SMG keeps coming back to, Newt sharing their experience as pain and suffering and then being tracked down by one of the older Kaiju for reasons that seemed more inquisitive than violent -- but then their ultimate role in the plot really is just to be a violent, existential threat to humanity. I wouldn't describe it as a fascist film at all. I'd describe it as a film which lacks conviction and hopes that imagery alone will carry it. I think Del Toro shot himself in the foot by "trying to recapture his feelings towards <Mazinger, etc>" as a child, because adults almost inevitably underestimate how much children pick up on and think that childlike appreciation means a shallow appreciation. Ironically, his movies about children are much more on point than his movie "for" children. (Loosely speaking.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2014 00:24
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:I have the opposite problem; Pacific Rim is super-muddled and has a lot of little thematic hints that all clash with each other. I get what you're saying, but I don't get a sense of dissonance out of this the way you do. It would seem that the ruling class was never particularly interested in whether or not the Jaeger program or the perimeter walls were efficacious for their Edit: "ostensible" not "intended" Arrowsmith fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jan 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2014 02:08
|
|
|
That's fair. That particular issue might be more a case of my expectations and hopes vs. the film rather than the film vs. itself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2014 02:13
|
|
|
Crows Turn Off posted:Wait, what's the evidence that Kaiju World is Earth? I don't remember anything in the movie implying that. It's metaphorically Future Earth, in the same way that Krypton is. What the films I've listed share is a blurring of the lines between past and future. Krypton was a futuristic planet that blew up decades ago, and the Terminator films use time-travel fuckery to make the past and future literally the same. Consequently, characters like Kyle Reese are doomsday prophets, receiving messages (memories) from a future that 'already happened'. Another thing these films have in common is imagery of terraformation. You can note how the battle in Aliens centers around the Atmospheric Processor, while the aliens modify their own environment. Terraformation is linked to pragmatist philosophers like G.H. Mead, who wrote about how species can/should reshape the world in accordance with their 'determining power'. Since animals are less complex/organized, their determining power - and, consequently, their values - are totally different. "I do not know what it is like to be God, nor do I know what it is like to be a bat. The concept of intrinsic/inherent value is thus either meaningless, or else it reduces to the value of something that enters into ecological relations that do not immediately affect any human agent. All that is, however, does eventually, mediately, affect some human agent. Its value can thus be cognized by humans, and its moral considerability can be acknowledged and respected. The lesson here, that we are connected at all points to our environments, and they to us, is the Alpha and the Omega of pragmatic thought about the environment." -Kelly Parker What you see in films like Starship Troopers and Pacific Rim is where this logic breaks down - where the bugs are seen as only part of OUR environment, and therefore we must exert power over them. And, of course, the bugs have their own conflicting values....
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2014 03:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
Haha, this thread is still going? SMG, this movie must have made quite an impression on you for you to want to criticise it so much! Anyway, here is something: Pacific Rim as 80s video game with 8-bit music.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2014 10:32
|
|