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Mellow Seas posted:I know he probably thinks it's compassionate or whatever, but the way that Allie always draws unemployed people as frowning, colorless husks who can't take their eyes off the ground seems kind of dehumanizing to me. To be fair to Allie, he clearly intends it in a sympathetic way and he doesn't show them as anything but victims (of Obama  ), and let's be honest being unemployed can be really draining and depressing. His assessment of causes and possible solutions is all hosed up and he's a horrible jerk for using his talents for evil, but I can't get worked up about this myself, a polititoon about unemployment isn't really the place to try and show that the unemployed still have rich full lives and care about other stuff.
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Jan 21, 2014 19:26
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D.N. Nation posted:Semi-credit for that, sure, but he's still a hacky hack who hacks when it comes to the price of gas. EDIT: on second thought, not that funny.
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Jan 21, 2014 19:27
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Mellow Seas posted:I know he probably thinks it's compassionate or whatever, but the way that Allie always draws unemployed people as frowning, colorless husks who can't take their eyes off the ground seems kind of dehumanizing to me. To be fair, we do feel pretty  a lot of the time.
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Jan 21, 2014 19:30
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Allie draws the unemployed as sympathetic characters. His crocodile tears are at least better than "unemployed people are moochers who should be shot into the sun," which is what you get from, say, Michael Ramirez. e: Case in point... 
D.N. Nation fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 19:32
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Cross-posting from the comic strip thread. If Stephanie McMillan knew how to draw, her stuff would look like this.
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Jan 21, 2014 19:32
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Jan 21, 2014 19:34
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That Jeff Ross is the best caricature Ramirez has ever done. Yeah, I think what pisses me off most about the blue, downtrodden unemployed is that it's Allie who's drawing them. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 19:39
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e: sorry, repost.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:01
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Lysdexique posted:
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Jan 21, 2014 20:12
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D.N. Nation posted:Allie draws the unemployed as sympathetic characters. His crocodile tears are at least better than "unemployed people are moochers who should be shot into the sun," which is what you get from, say, Michael Ramirez. Times are hard, but we're all in this together AGC
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Jan 21, 2014 20:25
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I like how it's a hybrid car too, the very same ones driven by godless liberal sodomites!
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Jan 21, 2014 20:29
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D.N. Nation posted:Allie draws the unemployed as sympathetic characters. His crocodile tears are at least better than "unemployed people are moochers who should be shot into the sun," which is what you get from, say, Michael Ramirez. My favorite thing about Ramirez is how EVERYONE looks miserable in his cartoons. Like it is painful to be in them.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:39
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Ineptus Mechanicus posted:I like how it's a hybrid car too, the very same ones driven by godless liberal sodomites! What is the right's obsession with denigrating hybrid cars? Is it solely anti-progressive sentiment or is there an actual reason of merit to dislike cars with higher efficiency.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:42
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Lycus posted:I think I'd feel a sense of pride as a cartoonist if a governor contacted my boss and tried to get me fired. The amount of butthurt exacted from Perry over this cartoon was pretty amazing.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:43
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joeburz posted:What is the right's obsession with denigrating hybrid cars? Is it solely anti-progressive sentiment or is there an actual reason of merit to dislike cars with higher efficiency. Conservatives seem to hate anything to do with environmentalism. Like, if you had just marketed CFL lightbulbs as lightbulbs that plain last longer while also costing less energy, they might not have a problem with it. But as soon as it became associated with green/clean energy and other such progressive ideas, out come the anti-government coercion rants and "well, they're just not the same!" The same would seem to apply to hybrid cars. I mean, I'm not sure if it'd be possible to market a car purely on the merits of its mileage without name-dropping how much cleaner it is, but there you are.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:49
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joeburz posted:What is the right's obsession with denigrating hybrid cars? Is it solely anti-progressive sentiment or is there an actual reason of merit to dislike cars with higher efficiency. 
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Jan 21, 2014 20:50
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joeburz posted:What is the right's obsession with denigrating hybrid cars? Is it solely anti-progressive sentiment or is there an actual reason of merit to dislike cars with higher efficiency. Hybrids are more expensive and never really pay for themselves in gas savings. I don't know of any hard info on whether they reduce pollution as a net (considering the cost/byproducts of producing the batteries and electricity they use), but my hunch is that they're about equal, under our current infrastructure. There are only a few models available and those don't fit everyone's needs/desires. I would guess there is slightly less maintenance that owners can perform completely by themselves, meaning you need an expert if something breaks. However these reasons are totally irrelevant , since you answered your own question: it's just knee-jerk "not our team's idea" rejection. This is always the answer for politoons.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:51
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Abyssal Squid posted:Same here, except I'm certain that it's just an unintentional failure of composition. This is the guy who drew the heroes of his cartoons as grumpy one-toothed Hitlery troglodytes for ages. Never forget snaggletooth Hitler. On the theme of people looking miserable, lookit that Native American - even before the first Thanksgiving is over, he's regretting helping out the foreigner who's going to kill his people as soon as spring arrives. Also if those characters lived in Britain (Or Canada or any other Godless Socialist Hell-Hole™) they could get their cleft lips treated for free - even soon after birth. Oh, well, I guess they've got FREEDOM  that we don't have.
LashLightning fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 20:59
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Chard posted:Hybrids are more expensive and never really pay for themselves in gas savings. Um, what? Not to derail this into hybridchat but my old car I was lucky to crack 20 MPG for any given tank of gas but in my current car I regularly crack 50. My car might never fully pay for itself in terms of gas savings but you're lying if you think this doesn't significantly ease the burden of fuel costs for the consumer.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:00
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Speaking of Eric Allie he just posted this (huge)
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Jan 21, 2014 21:03
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quiggy stardust posted:Um, what? Not to derail this into hybridchat but my old car I was lucky to crack 20 MPG for any given tank of gas but in my current car I regularly crack 50. My car might never fully pay for itself in terms of gas savings but you're lying if you think this doesn't significantly ease the burden of fuel costs for the consumer. Savings vs the non-hybrid version of the same car. So everyone can find out if they would save money, here http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybridCompare.jsp
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Jan 21, 2014 21:03
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Saint Sputnik posted:Speaking of Eric Allie he just posted this (huge) That's atrocious, it could be a Branco.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:07
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Yeah I didn't clarify but basically what Stultus posted; for the same new car, the hybrid version will never really justify the added expense to the consumer unless you personally value driving a lower-emissions vehicle. And I'm still not sure that actually is the net result, since batteries are fuckin' nasty things to produce and dispose of, and the charge doesn't just appear out of thin air, it has to be generated (from coal) somewhere else.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:09
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joeburz posted:What is the right's obsession with denigrating hybrid cars? Is it solely anti-progressive sentiment or is there an actual reason of merit to dislike cars with higher efficiency. Most people who denigrate hybrid cars just do so because they disdain anything "green," as others have said. There's the capital expense, which is a legitimate complaint, but that's not what's motivating most people who say hybrid cars are just plain stupid. edit: WHat I mean is, I think the cost motivates a lot of normal people who don't outright hate hybrids to not buy them, but people who like to speak out that hybrids are dumb never mention the capital cost or the "is it really worth it" in my experience. At the very best, when pressed for "why" I've heard some say they don't perform as well. "I like my car to perform well and electric just doesn't have as much power" and all. Funny thing is, this is absolutely false - it has been shown by engineers/auto-makers, systematic car testers, and anecdotally by pro drivers that the hybrid's electric motor provides much better low-end torque than the equivalent gas car, because the electric motor is a lot more versatile on the power vs. RPM curve. In fact, in "electric car drag racing," with extra powerful electric motors, people find that if you just slam on the accelerator, it'll accelerate so hard it literally tears the axle apart. They have to design custom systems to ramp up the acceleration as fast as it can without breaking stuff. So I don't know where people got this idea - possibly because "electric car" used to mean "electric cart," and those are kind of weak. Possibly because some hybrids have automatic efficiency controls that restrict the power just a little bit to save a lot of gas - but many modern gasoline cars have the same technology. edit: also, about "where does the charge come from," most hybrids on the road today are not plug-in hybrids, so the charge has nothing to do with the electrical grid. The car's electrical system acts as a middle-man between the gas engine and everything else, and results in a huge boost to efficiency, cause the engine can run under more ideal conditions. In this case, gasoline is the one and only power source, so the efficiency is well-captured in the gas mileage rating. alnilam fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 21:10
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Chard posted:Yeah I didn't clarify but basically what Stultus posted; for the same new car, the hybrid version will never really justify the added expense to the consumer unless you personally value driving a lower-emissions vehicle. And I'm still not sure that actually is the net result, since batteries are fuckin' nasty things to produce and dispose of, and the charge doesn't just appear out of thin air, it has to be generated (from coal) somewhere else. The charge in a hybrid is generated from the engine itself and that power is included in the mileage  Also that link posted was interesting, thanks. Mine will pay itself off in about five years but I can see how it could be longer or more problematic for others.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:13
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Saint Sputnik posted:Speaking of Eric Allie he just posted this (huge) The hell is this even going on about? Or is it just PPDD, Bad Politician?
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Jan 21, 2014 21:13
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Monkey Fracas posted:The hell is this even going on about? Or is it just PPDD, Bad Politician? Spin: Wendy Davis is LYING ABOUT HER PAST! Reality: She said she was divorced and a single mother at 19, when her divorce didn't go through until she was 21. She was still separated from her ex when she was 19, though. Yes, it's an extreme non-story. Source.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:17
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Internet Webguy posted:Spin: Wendy Davis is LYING ABOUT HER PAST! I like how they feel like they have to character-assassinate (yes I can use that as a verb) the like only high-visibility liberal politician in Texas of all places. They really need to use underhanded tactics to keep that state under control, it's a verifiable political battleground!
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Jan 21, 2014 21:21
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I remember seeing an article a couple years back that claimed that a Hummer was more environmentally responsible than a hybrid over its lifetime once you factor in manufacturing and disposal byproducts, but I can't seem to find it. I remember being fairly convinced, too. However, with regard to the comment about power, what I love most about my beat-up, hand-me-down 2004 Prius is the continuous transmission. Every time I drive a regular automatic now the gear changes really bug me. I haven't really looked into what traditional cars are available with continuous automatic transmission but for me that's the main advantage besides the fuel efficiency.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:23
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Stultus Maximus posted:Savings vs the non-hybrid version of the same car. So everyone can find out if they would save money, here http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybridCompare.jsp The bigger it is, the better the savings, mind you. A 4WD Escalade pays for itself in 2.1 years.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:25
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Chard posted:Yeah I didn't clarify but basically what Stultus posted; for the same new car, the hybrid version will never really justify the added expense to the consumer unless you personally value driving a lower-emissions vehicle. And I'm still not sure that actually is the net result, since batteries are fuckin' nasty things to produce and dispose of, and the charge doesn't just appear out of thin air, it has to be generated (from coal) somewhere else. In addition to what quiggy already said, I used the calculator Stultus posted, checking the Fusion Hybrid, using local gas prices, and an approximation of our family's actual driving habits. Fuel savings paid off the price difference before the 60-month loan (using the numbers the calculator defaulted to) was even up. So your claim of "never really justify" is kind of shot. Your "batteries are nasty to produce" thing sounds like you might still believe in the Sudbury Dead Zone myth, too. SurgicalOntologist posted:I remember seeing an article a couple years back that claimed that a Hummer was more environmentally responsible than a hybrid over its lifetime once you factor in manufacturing and disposal byproducts, but I can't seem to find it. I remember being fairly convinced, too. Kugyou no Tenshi fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 21:27
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D.N. Nation posted:
There have been at least a few occasions where even oil company researchers have said "yeah there's basically nothing the government does that significantly affects gas prices." Why does nobody understand that oil is a global commodity and limiting domestic oil activity, at the worst, is slightly curtailing domestic oil profits and probably a few jobs. Also, refiners are making  by refining crude from cheaper midwestern WTI crude - no pipeline to get this crude on the global market yet - and selling it at global gas prices, which for some reason are pinned to the price of Brent (baltic sea) crude.Conclusion: anyone who talks about gas prices in a political context sucks and I hate them
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Jan 21, 2014 21:28
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:That would be the source of the Sudbury Dead Zone myth. It ignores the fact that most of the environmental damage from the nickel mine was done decades ago, that there are concerted efforts to reverse that impact, or anything even resembling a cursory glance at the recycling efforts that car manufacturers are undertaking both for environmental and cost-saving reasons. Well, I'm glad to hear it!
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Jan 21, 2014 21:32
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alnilam posted:At the very best, when pressed for "why" I've heard some say they don't perform as well. "I like my car to perform well and electric just doesn't have as much power" and all. Don't forget the piles of political cartoons claiming they would catch fire, because it happened in a worst-case controlled crash test in pre-production and was immediately addressed IIRC. And we all know regular cars never catch fire when they crash. Shadowed Bacon fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 21:33
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Internet Webguy posted:Spin: Wendy Davis is LYING ABOUT HER PAST! Charles Pierce with a harsher take. It's (mostly) a non-story, though to win in Texas, the Davis campaign really needed to avoid this sort of stuff. Also, Allie was a Bush/Iraq War fluffer to the end, so your concern about the truth is noted and dropkicked into the toilet, Eric.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:41
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It takes immensely more energy to make a car than to drive one, no matter the engine. The greenest car you can get is a used truck you buy off craigslist and drive at 20mph with a dozen people standing in the bed.KillerJunglist posted:My favorite thing about Ramirez is how EVERYONE looks miserable in his cartoons. Like it is painful to be in them. I dunno, the Obama-creature always seems pretty relaxed.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:42
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That's the beauty of Eric Allie. He sticks close enough to the truth that you cannot refute him with objective facts, only with differing interpretations of existing facts. He's an excellent propagandist and probably my favorite political cartoonist in terms of overall competence.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:48
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Monkey Fracas posted:I like how they feel like they have to character-assassinate (yes I can use that as a verb) the like only high-visibility liberal politician in Texas of all places. They really need to use underhanded tactics to keep that state under control, it's a verifiable political battleground! She has them legitimately scared. Battleground Texas has been booming here and the Republicans had no loving clue that would happen. She still won't win, but she has the potential to really rally the troops and there's nothing that terrifies Texas Republicans more than the idea of blacks, women, and Mexicans all realizing 'wait we don't have to just accept this crap' at once.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:51
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Randler posted:That's the beauty of Eric Allie. He sticks close enough to the truth that you cannot refute him with objective facts, only with differing interpretations of existing facts. He's an excellent propagandist and probably my favorite political cartoonist in terms of overall competence.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:53
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D.N. Nation posted:Allie draws the unemployed as sympathetic characters. His crocodile tears are at least better than "unemployed people are moochers who should be shot into the sun," which is what you get from, say, Michael Ramirez.
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