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Kaiju Cage Match posted:This thread is a lot more enjoyable if you put SMG on ignore. Or only read his posts, it's one or the other
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Jan 21, 2014 23:12
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CelticPredator posted:I think it's because you're going after a goofy campy monster movie instead of something with actual substance. I love this movie dearly, but it is what it is, and not much more. What is the actual substance? It sounds like phlogiston. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 23:15
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It's the stuff you find in between your toes!
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Jan 21, 2014 23:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's weird that I mostly/only get this reaction from the Pacific Rim thread. I do not receive similar complaints about Her or Star Wars, despite using exactly the same approach in those threads. Probably because the Star Wars thread is filled with people who use the EU to justify the prequels and think that George Lucas did everything right on the prequels. This makes it, quite probably, one of the worst threads in CDs history. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 23:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What is the actual substance? Black goo.
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Jan 21, 2014 23:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:^^^ Kaiju Cage Match posted:This thread is a lot more enjoyable if you put SMG on ignore.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:06
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Clearly it is quintessence.quote:It's weird that I mostly/only get this reaction from the Pacific Rim thread. I seem to recall similar results after Battle: LA, Skyline, Prometheus, and that one time you did it without actually watching the movie. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 00:52
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RBA Starblade posted:I seem to recall similar results after Battle: LA, Skyline, and Prometheus, among others. Though I don't think you implied anyone was a fascist in those. I didn't imply anyone was fascist in this thread either. (Well, besides Jefferoo.) I said the character in the film were fascist, which is accurate. If forums poster goku420 is a fascist, or admires fascism... who cares?
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Jan 22, 2014 01:00
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Milky Moor posted:Probably because the Star Wars thread is filled with people who use the EU to justify the prequels and think that George Lucas did everything right on the prequels. This makes it, quite probably, one of the worst threads in CDs history. I think the EU is more the butt of a joke, they are expressly not canon compared to films such as THX 1138 and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, which are. And threads go through phases which are interesting or boring, such as the abominable fan art and mundane doll posting in this thread. Danger fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 01:21
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It's a question of sacred cows, I think. Except nobody cares what you say about or do to Star Wars, it's already been slaughtered. At least it's not as bad as the Tron thread.
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Jan 22, 2014 01:28
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Milky Moor posted:Probably because the Star Wars thread is filled with people who use the EU to justify the prequels and think that George Lucas did everything right on the prequels. This makes it, quite probably, one of the worst threads in CDs history. I have not heard one positive word about any of the EU in the Star Wars thread except from spergs who hate the prequels.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's weird that I mostly/only get this reaction from the Pacific Rim thread. I do not receive similar complaints about Her or Star Wars, despite using exactly the same approach in those threads. Well that's the thing. When you spend this much time and energy trying to convince people that this thing they like is bad and wrong, even if you've got a valid argument, it gets tiresome after six months.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:18
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computer parts posted:I have not heard one positive word about any of the EU in the Star Wars thread except from spergs who hate the prequels. ...But doesn't everyone hate the prequels?
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Jan 22, 2014 02:30
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Doublehex posted:...But doesn't everyone hate the prequels? Not if you understand that what they were going for is essentially a deconstruction of the Star Wars mythos. Or to be short: "The Jedi are morons in the OT, come see them when they were morons and in power".
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Jan 22, 2014 02:33
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So you like the prequels? Even if you just judge it on the acting it's such a slog to get through.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:58
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"In those other threads I didn't act like a condescending douchebag, and they tolerated me. Yet in this thread I did act like a douchebag and they didn't tolerate me! What gives??"  tl;dr: 
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Jan 22, 2014 03:23
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People really enjoy their fascist mechs and do not like being called out on it.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:41
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Mu Zeta posted:So you like the prequels? Even if you just judge it on the acting it's such a slog to get through. I suggest reading the thread. If you want a definitive example however, a major complaint that a lot of people have is that Anakin acted like a creeper for most of the last two prequels. This is not a mistake.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:09
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Clearly a slow descent to the Dark Side should make someone friendly and psychologically stable.
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Jan 22, 2014 05:25
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Maxwell Lord posted:Well that's the thing. When you spend this much time and energy trying to convince people that this thing they like is bad and wrong, even if you've got a valid argument, it gets tiresome after six months. What if the thing you like is Christ, the arguments against are not valid at all, and the period of time is way more than a few months? I kid, but you're kinda assuming that people actually like this movie. I'd say that they don't. The most common response to the criticism is that 'it's just a stupid movie, undeserving of attention.' There's a lack of respect and confidence there, and it's not coming from me. This is related to the steadfast refusal to celebrate the film. With the notable exception of Jefferoo, who took the fascism and went wild, few take the film seriously. Statements like "it knows what it is," if you think about them for even a second, are totally nonsensical. If the film could know what it was, it would know that it's loaded with psychological imagery - including multiple scenes set inside people's minds. Even on a most rudimentary level, the film is about a war. I'm not the one who brought this up. Rosie the Riveter shows up. US President Barack Obama shows up. C'mon now.
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Jan 22, 2014 09:53
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computer parts posted:Not if you understand that what they were going for is essentially a deconstruction of the Star Wars mythos. Im pretty sure you can still hate them even if thats what you think they were about.
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Jan 22, 2014 10:02
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quote:I didn't imply anyone was fascist in this thread either. (Well, besides Jefferoo.) Sorry, maybe it was one of the other posters then. I'm pretty sure someone did but honestly I'm not going to go look and check. quote:I kid, but you're kinda assuming that people actually like this movie. I'd say that they don't. What other movies did we not like but fooled ourselves into thinking we liked? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 15:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What if the thing you like is Christ, the arguments against are not valid at all, and the period of time is way more than a few months? Have you ever heard the phrase "If you haven't got anything nice to say then don't say anything at all"? If you take this phrase into your heart you'll save yourself a lot of time and your keyboard a lot of wear and tear.
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Jan 22, 2014 15:37
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Just to reiterate, Pacific Rim has 4 stars in The Film Dump review thread. This thread has 3. I think people know exactly what they like and they don't like.
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Jan 22, 2014 15:47
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Barry White posted:Have you ever heard the phrase "If you haven't got anything nice to say then don't say anything at all"? If you take this phrase into your heart you'll save yourself a lot of time and your keyboard a lot of wear and tear. This is dumb. Criticism rules, otherwise, we'd just have a big robot-themed Mass Effect thread in here and no one wants that.
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Jan 22, 2014 16:57
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Yeah, but this isn't criticism. This is "I do the same dumb poo poo in every thread, aren't I clever, tee hee."
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Jan 22, 2014 17:40
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In what way is reading a film's visual imagery in context with itself, the body of work it quotes, and it's social and political implications with clear citations to well known and prodigiously published contemporary cultural critics and philosophers not 'criticism'. What, then, is 'criticism'? I'm assuming it's something about toy sales?
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Jan 22, 2014 18:11
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I kid, but you're kinda assuming that people actually like this movie. I'd say that they don't. The most common response to the criticism is that 'it's just a stupid movie, undeserving of attention.' There's a lack of respect and confidence there, and it's not coming from me. quote:Statements like "it knows what it is," if you think about them for even a second, are totally nonsensical. If the film could know what it was, it would know that it's loaded with psychological imagery - including multiple scenes set inside people's minds. Even on a most rudimentary level, the film is about a war. I'm not the one who brought this up. Rosie the Riveter shows up. US President Barack Obama shows up. C'mon now. I would say that it's actually an interesting problem with your optics, really. You are so used to a certain language of film that a film that ignores it is incomprehensible and alien to you. It's like you yourself on one of the previous pages mentioned: SuperMechagodzilla posted:If you like fascism and the vague idea of giant robots, but have no respect for giant monster cinema whatsoever, you should go see this movie. Now the question becomes: how do you call a person who wants to destroy the people's liking of a movie for not conforming to conventions? Can you call them a fascist?
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Jan 22, 2014 18:41
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I'm certain I could whip up a 12 page essay on how Home Alone was an allegory for tribal warfare in Bossangoa, but it wouldn't make me any less of an idiot.
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Jan 22, 2014 18:41
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DeathChicken posted:I'm certain I could whip up a 12 page essay on how Home Alone was an allegory for tribal warfare in Bossangoa, but it wouldn't make me any less of an idiot. You're an idiot. e: Seriously, this has been bought up in nearly every thread in CineD, SMG and others have actually stopped to give coherent explanations of what critical analysis is and why it is important several times, defaulting to this grumpy old man reaction to critical reading at this point in this forum's life is really loving lazy (and stupid). No Dignity fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 18:46
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Stunning rebuttal. Have any others?
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Jan 22, 2014 18:48
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Please see above.
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Jan 22, 2014 18:52
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The sword does seem like it's coded as super phallic, the movie's written and directed by men, the woman who should be the protagonist is sidelined and denied her obvious narrative primacy in favor of a dull default cipher, the movie as a whole elides and minimizes women. There's stuff to talk about here even if you find fascism-chat revolting. I thought one of the rules of CD was that we were supposed to be down with criticism and textual analysis. Maybe I'm just a square 
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Jan 22, 2014 18:54
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DeathChicken posted:I'm certain I could whip up a 12 page essay on how Home Alone was an allegory for tribal warfare in Bossangoa, but it wouldn't make me any less of an idiot. Home Alone is pretty straightforwardly about growing up, and you could still write a 12 page essay proving this (citing examples like the shaving scene and him overcoming his fear of the basement) and people ITT would say "nope it's just about a kid beating up dumb robbers, nice try nerd". Sci-fi by its very nature is even more about metaphor, allegory and symbolism, but I guess none of the stuff in the movie means anything and is just cool stuff. Like the fact that the Kaiju literally are born into our world from a birth canal and then Our Heroes jump down into it to save the world, none of that imagery or whatever probably means anything. Until you realize that the filmmakers had to have it be SOMETHING and they made the choice of what it was and they are experienced in this stuff so it maybe does mean something??? Like the Kaiju could have landed from off planet in egg-meteors, or have been grown by an evil scientist, or be mutated whales from too much pollution, or have been sent from the future by Evil Biff, or a billion other things. The problem with this whole "reading too much into it/making stuff up" argument is that, if it was it could easily be refuted. I could easily refute any post about Home Alone being about tribal warfare in Bossangoa and I could do so with actual arguments and not just by saying "that's dumb" over and over until the problem hopefully went away. I would be interested to see you take one single point from any of SMG's posts and prove it false with words and thought. DeathChicken posted:Stunning rebuttal. Have any others? Seriously, post something more than pithy one-liners.
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Jan 22, 2014 19:01
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Barry White posted:Have you ever heard the phrase "If you haven't got anything nice to say then don't say anything at all"? If you take this phrase into your heart you'll save yourself a lot of time and your keyboard a lot of wear and tear. I actually open up avenues for authentic praise. For example, a reader might find that the film is conducive to being read as a Starship Troopers satire. I've placed the film in context with many similar films (Man Of Steel, Aliens, etc.), which can help identify its strengths. I think folks are mixing up analysis with evaluation. I don't make that many value judgements; it's more just description. If I say that kaiju blue is the same Lacanian imagery as the black goo in Prometheus... what is cruel about that? If I say that Ras Al Ghul is a fascist character in Batman Begins, nobody bats an eye - because that's not a value judgement. I've dissed those who stan for illiteracy, but rightfully so. The only recourse, then, is to attack me for my imagined inner feelings. So the thread does mirror the film in that it can only sustain itself by rallying against an external intruder in the hopes of purifying the discussion - when the actual illness is, of course, capitalism. Killing me won't bring back your precious honey. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 19:16
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A Steampunk Gent posted:e: Seriously, this has been bought up in nearly every thread in CineD, SMG and others have actually stopped to give coherent explanations of what critical analysis is and why it is important several times, defaulting to this grumpy old man reaction to critical reading at this point in this forum's life is really loving lazy (and stupid). All I'm saying is that it could be a very good idea to broaden the scope of perception - to examine the statements, but without limiting ourselves to a particular convention. When the fascist-chat started, it started by quoting a definition of fascism according to the Fascist Manifesto; a definition that a person would not have been familiar with unless they specifically learned about the art of that period of history. A definition that isn't really a part of the current gestalt. Guy A. Person posted:Sci-fi by its very nature is even more about metaphor, allegory and symbolism, but I guess none of the stuff in the movie means anything and is just cool stuff. Like the fact that the Kaiju literally are born into our world from a birth canal and then Our Heroes jump down into it to save the world, none of that imagery or whatever probably means anything. How about this explanation: 'Wormholes' are part of the gestalt. The term was coined in 1957. They were first shown on-screen in - what, in the original Star Trek? In short, today most everyone feels they know what a wormhole is, to the extent that when Thor movies wanted their nerdish characters to sound nerdy, they actually called them the 'Einstein-Rosen bridges'. There is also a certain way that 'wormholes' are visualised. There is a rich tradition of the way in which they are visualised. The artists could have drawn on that shorthand, knowing that the audience will be aware what is being visualised, that no one would be confused: "what is it what they are showing?" Why limit yourself to the 'birth canal' explanation?
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Jan 22, 2014 20:09
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There's no limitation because it is both wormhole and birth imagery.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:15
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Pacific Rim is obviously not about nothing. I only think that "fascist" is an inaccurate description of the answer to its moral riddle. This film has got Nietzsche all over it. The tagline is a huge giveaway. Raleigh is happiest when he is exercising his will to power - piloting a jaeger - and the big dramatic speech is an indictment of nihilism, an assertion that the PPDC believe in something and that the world should exist. Pentecost himself has something of the Übermensch about him, being the only pilot capable of operating a jaeger independently of anybody else, disregarding the morality of the masses (consorting with profiteer gangsters like Chau) and needing no justification. That earth is becoming more like the kaiju world is not at all inconsistent with Nietzsche's conception of eternal recurrence and his idea of amor fati, love of fate: if your actions define you, then the resolute decision to continue existing implies continuing to repeat the past. If the question is "To be or not to be," then a huge number of philosophical, political, and religious traditions that Nietzsche despised glorify the decision "not to be" and resent those who instead choose "to be." The fascists were very selective in their reading of Nietzsche, but then, so was everybody else. Most damningly, the fascists appealed to populism in a way Nietzsche never did. Some fascist thinkers remarked that there's no way Nietzsche's writings were fascist, because he clearly favored a much older, less populist form of aristocracy. I think Hodgepodge, in this thread, was on the right track with the reason he Hodgepodge posted:didn't read the PPDC as fascists
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Jan 23, 2014 00:59
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Yoshifan823 posted:This is dumb. Criticism rules, otherwise, we'd just have a big robot-themed Mass Effect thread in here and no one wants that. Umm are you saying that having a bunch of skoolmunkee comics about Kaiju and Jaegers wouldn't be awesome? Because that would totally be awesome.
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Jan 23, 2014 01:35
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Pacific Effect 3 endings: -Destroy the Kaiju -Become the Kaiju to control them -Merge Kaiju with people (All Jaegers get destroyed because reasons regardless of choice) And there'd be an assassin who is hyped up as a murder machine but he likes to eat cereal or something.
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Jan 23, 2014 01:42
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