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GrizzlyCow
May 30, 2011
YouTube Center can do all of that except disable comments. You'll need another script/add-on/plug-in to do that. It's available as a Greasemonkey script or an add-on/extension for your preferred browser. If you need to disable the comment section, you can undoubtedly find an userscript or userstyle that can do that easy.

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Gerudo Rivera
Jan 22, 2005

GrizzlyCow posted:

YouTube Center can do all of that except disable comments. You'll need another script/add-on/plug-in to do that. It's available as a Greasemonkey script or an add-on/extension for your preferred browser. If you need to disable the comment section, you can undoubtedly find an userscript or userstyle that can do that easy.

Thanks. I'll ditch magicactions, should've known something was up.

Fangs404
Dec 20, 2004

I time bomb.
Do we know yet what that "something" is?

m2pt5
May 18, 2005

THAT GOD DAMN MOSQUITO JUST KEEPS COMING BACK

GrizzlyCow posted:

YouTube Center can do all of that except disable comments. You'll need another script/add-on/plug-in to do that. It's available as a Greasemonkey script or an add-on/extension for your preferred browser. If you need to disable the comment section, you can undoubtedly find an userscript or userstyle that can do that easy.

I use a combination of Youtube Center and Resize Youtube Player to Window Size. The latter script moves the search bar and title below the video, and stretches the embed to fill the browser window, at whatever size you have it.

Spindle
Feb 12, 2008

Baby, we're rich
The only thing I miss with Youtube Center vs Magic Actions is how the latter flipped the whole website to white-text-on-black.
It's also a little buggy if you aren't consistent in your options in different player versions.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar

This is great. Thank you.




m2pt5 posted:

I use a combination of Youtube Center and Resize Youtube Player to Window Size. The latter script moves the search bar and title below the video, and stretches the embed to fill the browser window, at whatever size you have it.

I use YouTube Big Player which lets me set just how large a window I want YouTube to play in. Well, if you open it up and edit the two lines under #player-ap to select the size you want

Also great is YouTube Auto Buffer & Auto HD which starts buffering the video without playing it. I hate autoplaying videos because it normally only happens when I have a tonne of tabs open and it's a video with really loud sound and it takes forever to find the culprit.

Now there's an extension I'd like to see - one that normalises sound levels across all YouTube videos.

m2pt5
May 18, 2005

THAT GOD DAMN MOSQUITO JUST KEEPS COMING BACK

Gorilla Salad posted:

Also great is YouTube Auto Buffer & Auto HD which starts buffering the video without playing it.

Youtube Center has that option as well.

GrizzlyCow
May 30, 2011

Gorilla Salad posted:

I use YouTube Big Player which lets me set just how large a window I want YouTube to play in. Well, if you open it up and edit the two lines under #player-ap to select the size you want

Youtube Center can also do that: YT Center Settings > Player > Player Size > Add player size

You can specify the dimensions of the player by pixels or percentage.

m2pt5 posted:

I use a combination of Youtube Center and Resize Youtube Player to Window Size. The latter script moves the search bar and title below the video, and stretches the embed to fill the browser window, at whatever size you have it.

Youtube Center has a new feature that can do something like that. "Fullscreen Top Player". Only difference is that you scroll into and out of Fullscreen Top Player, so the search bar and title just disappear when it is activated rather than move.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar
Cool. That means I can uninstall my other stuff and simplify Firefox a bit.

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.
Firefox 27 is now out. TLS 1.1 and 1.2 are now enabled by default, which makes Firefox the last major browser to do so.

m2pt5
May 18, 2005

THAT GOD DAMN MOSQUITO JUST KEEPS COMING BACK

Mr.Radar posted:

Firefox 27 is now out. TLS 1.1 and 1.2 are now enabled by default, which makes Firefox the last major browser to do so.

Before I updated, middle-clicking on the tab bar undid the last closed tab, now it opens a new tab. How do I fix it? (I have Tab Mix Plus set to do what I want, but something in Firefox is overriding it.)

Edit: I am not using "tabs on top", so double-clicking would not toggle maximized.

Edit: Apparently it's the extension that was broken, and the latest dev build fixes it.

m2pt5 fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Feb 5, 2014

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002

Im_Special posted:

So I'm not sure if this is a Firefox problem, an add-on, flash or Youtube problem but lately when I try and watch random videos (not all of them) they simply won't load until I refresh the page (sometimes a few refreshes are needed) and then they'll work magically. I'm on the latest Firefox, latest flash, all add-ons are up to date and I've tried with all add-ons disabled with the same results, is only started maybe a few weeks ago. Has anyone else been experiencing this?

Fake edit: Seems it's one of my GreaseMonkey scripts 'YouTube - Auto-Buffer & Auto-HD' hopefully it'll get fixed soon.
Same here. Can happen without extension or with (Magic Actions or YouTube Options), on several computers, in several browsers, on several networks (work and home). YouTube and/or flash also just seems to "go sour" as time goes by (I never restart or reboot unless something goes wonky), requiring a restart of Chrome, FF, or the entire computer.

All in all, gently caress flash or something. I wonder if HTML5 will take care of this - anyone have technical insight or experience with it?

Pilsner fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Feb 5, 2014

three
Aug 9, 2007

i fantasize about ndamukong suh licking my doodoo hole
What's the "best practice" for handling Firefox updates in an enterprise? We're using Firefox ESR right now with auto updates turned off and our packaging team is manually packaging every new ESR release. This seems in-optimal.

jink
May 8, 2002

Drop it like it's Hot.
Taco Defender

Pilsner posted:

Same here. Can happen without extension or with (Magic Actions or YouTube Options), on several computers, in several browsers, on several networks (work and home). YouTube and/or flash also just seems to "go sour" as time goes by (I never restart or reboot unless something goes wonky), requiring a restart of Chrome, FF, or the entire computer.

All in all, gently caress flash or something. I wonder if HTML5 will take care of this - anyone have technical insight or experience with it?

I had plenty of YouTube issues until I opted for the html5 player.

http://youtube.com/html5

Osx Firefox is lacking h.264 but Firefox on windows handles it all. Give it a try?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice
New and improved Firefox Sync is coming in Firefox 30.

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki
Are there any differences other than using an email account to sync instead of the old (weird) system?

I installed Nightly on my desktop and actually really like Australis, but I also really like having the tab bar on the bottom (of the actual window, not below the address bar) for my laptop because of the way I lay my windows out there. Tab Utilities tab bar on bottom now just moves the tabs below the address bar, is there anything that can move it to the bottom of the window or am I out of luck?

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001

New and improved "Australis" tab interface is coming in Firefox 29 or 30.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

It might be new, but people will always contend whether anything new is an improvement.

zachol
Feb 13, 2009

Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.
The Australis tabs look neat and as far as I can tell are an improvement on the current tabs interface.
The problem is I'm not using tabs on top in the first place and they're also taking away the addon bar at the bottom. Having a real hard time understanding their justification for that.

Avenging Dentist
Oct 1, 2005

oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh

zachol posted:

The Australis tabs look neat and as far as I can tell are an improvement on the current tabs interface.
The problem is I'm not using tabs on top in the first place and they're also taking away the addon bar at the bottom. Having a real hard time understanding their justification for that.

The maintenance burden for features only a tiny minority of people use is too great. It makes more sense to offload some of that complexity onto add-ons, since then Mozilla isn't on the hook for ensuring that every possible combination of configurations results in a working version of Firefox*. As I've mentioned before, I help out on Thunderbird sometimes and just getting the menu bar to sit above or below the tab bar (depending on OS) was a huge amount of work. Letting users customize where the tab bar went would have been a nightmare. I imagine the story is similar for Firefox, although I'm not familiar with much of Firefox's codebase.

That said, I've found that I actually use fewer add-ons now than before, but I always try to give myself a few weeks to adjust to any changes (running Nightly on one of my computers also helps keep me prepared for big changes, since I've probably seen them for 12-18 weeks by the time they arrive on my desktop). I've been pretty happy with most of the recent changes in Firefox for the most part.

* Ok, they are, but the number of possible configurations is reduced.

zachol
Feb 13, 2009

Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.
I've accepted that I'm obviously in the minority regarding tabs on top and that makes a lot of sense regarding tightening the interface and having less code to maintain. Simplifying and cementing that part of the design makes sense, yeah.
I think I'm just more irritated that the same logic is being applied to the addon bar (status bar? whatever it's called), since that seems like it would be a much more integral part of the browser. It isn't something that needs to be moved or altered itself, so you don't need to account for users changing it (besides the addon buttons themselves, obviously). I don't like having such basic parts dependent on a specific, individual addon, where it could easily break or stop being maintained, and where other addons now can't depend on that functionality being present.

Aleph Null
Jun 10, 2008

You look very stressed
Tortured By Flan
The RequestPolicy add-in doesn't work that well with versions of Firefox since about 25 (I think). RequestPolicy restricts what websites the current website can call.
So you can prevent sites from calling googleanalytics.com or whatever.
The problems happens with things like Amazon AWS and Cloudfront URLs that have more than two, uh, dots. Like if you had
first.second.somesite.com and
third.fourth.somesite.com
then you can no longer make an exception for all of somesite.com but you have to make one for each.

I realized the only thing I cared about is calling advertisers or trackers. Is there a simple add-on that covers just that? Just something to block contacting 3rd party advertisers or tracking sites.

Thanks.

Avenging Dentist
Oct 1, 2005

oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh
I believe the add-on bar is being removed because very few people actually used it. Technically speaking, I don't think it would have been particularly difficult to keep around, except that it would have made the new customization UI somewhat more complex. That said, I never used the add-on bar, and frankly have a hard time imagining any case where I'd want to.

I do use the bookmarks toolbar for some dumb reason, though.

Aleph Null posted:

I realized the only thing I cared about is calling advertisers or trackers. Is there a simple add-on that covers just that?

I assume by "calling", you mean a page requesting a URL that's on a different domain. In which case, I just use the "EasyPrivacy" list for AdBlock Plus and try not to worry about it too much. It's pitifully easy to track people even if they block requests like that and even if they block cookies, localStorage, etc, so I just put forth the minimum of effort and call it a day.

Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Feb 7, 2014

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

Avenging Dentist posted:

The maintenance burden for features only a tiny minority of people use is too great. It makes more sense to offload some of that complexity onto add-ons, since then Mozilla isn't on the hook for ensuring that every possible combination of configurations results in a working version of Firefox*.

They don't get to claim that when they turned a feature everyone was perfectly happy with (status bar) into something completely different that was turned off by default in a contentious update.

Avenging Dentist
Oct 1, 2005

oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh

~Coxy posted:

They don't get to claim that when they turned a feature everyone was perfectly happy with (status bar) into something completely different that was turned off by default in a contentious update.

I'm going to assume you're not actually familiar with Firefox's code*. The add-on bar was pretty trivial to add around Firefox 4 days, due to how toolbar customization worked. I think they had to add support for "external" toolbars, but that's about it, and isn't particularly complex. However, Australis pretty much completely rewrites the UI for toolbar customization, meaning that the cost of keeping it around went up (since the new customization UI would then have to account for multiple, possibly-external toolbars). Since I don't think the add-on bar was very commonly used, I can see why the Firefox devs dropped it.

If your complaint is that the status bar was good and Mozilla just wants to get rid of good things, that's not really accurate either. The new way has some notable benefits, like wasting less space when you're not loading a page or hovering over a link, and still appears in cases where you probably wouldn't see a status bar (e.g. when a page requests full-screen mode for watching a video).

I mean, if you really just want a conservative UI while still getting security updates and new web technologies, that's what SeaMonkey is for.

* I'm not super-familiar with Firefox-specific stuff, but I know my way around common Gecko code that Thunderbird uses.

zachol
Feb 13, 2009

Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.

Avenging Dentist posted:

The new way has some notable benefits, like wasting less space when you're not loading a page or hovering over a link

See, it's rationalizations like this that irritate me. "It's a drain on coding" makes some sense, although I still think it's an important enough part of the UI to deserve that attention.
But "wasting less space" is a really dumb reason. I could just as easily say it's a negative feature, because now there's this extremely distracting popup at the edge of your vision constantly appearing and disappearing. Parts of the UI should only be coming up or going away when they're significant changes in status that deserve your attention, not as a thing that will appear and disappear with essentially every new page and link mouseover. It's super incredibly distracting and bad design. I'd rather it not be there at all, if I can't have it as a persistent bar.
Also if it's still going to be there as a status and mouseover notifier, then I don't understand how it's so much harder to account for in terms of design coding than a full persistent addon bar. Obviously some, sure, but the majority of design considerations made for a status bar thing seem like they'd apply just as easily to a persistent one.

e: Sorry, I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just irritated by the explanations the FF devs have sometimes made for design changes, and how people sometimes say "this is 100% an improvement" and "you just don't like change" and so on when there are pretty legitimate complaints I can have about them.

zachol fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Feb 7, 2014

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD
Seems like this dreadful progression of super-minimalistic UIs was designed for a growing audience of users with minuscule resolutions on their netbook screens which don't really exist anymore. So let's have our status bar and menus back.

Avenging Dentist
Oct 1, 2005

oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh

zachol posted:

e: Sorry, I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just irritated by the explanations the FF devs have sometimes made for design changes, and how people sometimes say "this is 100% an improvement" and "you just don't like change" and so on when there are pretty legitimate complaints I can have about them.

It's not that your complaints aren't legitimate, but that they're colored by your particular workflow. Not everyone has the same workflow (this is even more true with Thunderbird than Firefox, where people frankly have insane email workflows), and unfortunately you can't account for everyone's workflow while still writing maintainable software. Please kill me before I say workflow again, christ. I personally don't find the URL popups any more distracting than the status bar text changing, but that's me. Maybe it'd be worse if I looked at a lot of pages with black backgrounds? The added space I get is useful however, since it means I don't have to scroll as much. And, as I said, the new way works well for other situations, like full-screen pages.

While occasionally things seem to happen unilaterally with software, most places (Mozilla included) do perform user studies to figure out what the best solution is. A good example is the notification under the URL bar for blocked plugins. Lots of people hate it (including some in this thread, and myself) because it's too in-your-face, but user studies found that anything less confused the vast majority of users. I can't remember if there was a specific study on the status bar around the time of Firefox 4, but I do know that most of the changes to menu layout were informed by heatmaps of what items people were using.

EDIT: Here's a blog post explaining some of the logic behind the status bar changes in Firefox 4: http://jboriss.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/removing-firefoxs-status-bar-and-rehousing-add-on-icons-part-1-of-2/

EDITx2: Really, the things that I'd consider using the add-ons bar for are better served by the Australis menu button anyway (e.g. accessing AdBlock settings). I guess it messes things up if you really like having a weather or stock ticker add-on in the add-on bar, but I never really understood those.

~Coxy posted:

Seems like this dreadful progression of super-minimalistic UIs was designed for a growing audience of users with minuscule resolutions on their netbook screens which don't really exist anymore. So let's have our status bar and menus back.

I'd say it would be more accurate to describe the trend towards minimalism as a recognition of the fact that web browsers are effectively just virtual machines that let you access your "applications", which are conveniently served up via HTTP. The natural goal therefore is to get the web content to be as close to 100% of the window as possible. (I am not convinced this is actually a good thing.)

Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Feb 7, 2014

zachol
Feb 13, 2009

Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.

Sure, I can accept that. For example, I am super ridiculously picky about the way tabs open and close and when they get focus and so on, so pretty much the first addon I always install is Tab Mix Plus, but expecting the devs to have all those options available in stock Firefox would be stupid. That's fine as an addon.
I think the thing that frustrates me about the addon bar is that, right now, addons are made with the assumption that users are probably going to stick some of the addon buttons in that bar. I have like five different things sitting there right now that aren't nearly worthwhile enough to stick in the main area at the top but still convey useful visual information that changes with the pages I visit. It's nice to have convenient and quick access to them, and there's a sort of incentive or sense of it being worthwhile for addon developers to include this functionality, to spend the time having those icons. Eliminating the addon bar drastically thins the pool of people who are going to have a use for them. It means that developers are much less likely to think about what will happen and how their addon will work when someone sticks the addon button onto what's now its own niche addon.
Stuff like the tab functionality is basically its own set of considerations, but an addon bar is something that numerous other addons link into. Relegating it to an addon introduces much more potential for failure and a disincentive for new addons to rely on or even account for that area. It's much more of a core part of the browser, instead of a relatively niche detail in terms of functionality.

Addon addon addon addon. Ugh.

Applebees
Jul 23, 2013

yospos

Aleph Null posted:

I realized the only thing I cared about is calling advertisers or trackers. Is there a simple add-on that covers just that? Just something to block contacting 3rd party advertisers or tracking sites.

I use DoNotTrackMe as well as the the EasyPrivacy filter for Adblock Plus. Disconnect is similar, but I found it didn't cover as much. I learned about them at https://fixtracking.com.

Aleph Null
Jun 10, 2008

You look very stressed
Tortured By Flan

Applebees posted:

I use DoNotTrackMe as well as the the EasyPrivacy filter for Adblock Plus. Disconnect is similar, but I found it didn't cover as much. I learned about them at https://fixtracking.com.

I added in the EasyPrivacy filter plus re-installed Ghostery which I quit using when I first started using RequestPolicy.

Thanks. I didn't know there was an EasyPrivacy filter for Adblock Plus.

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

zachol posted:

it's a negative feature, because now there's this extremely distracting popup at the edge of your vision constantly appearing and disappearing. Parts of the UI should only be coming up or going away when they're significant changes in status that deserve your attention, not as a thing that will appear and disappear with essentially every new page and link mouseover. It's super incredibly distracting and bad design.
I agree. Its someones idea of shoving their aesthetic on everyone and creating excuses for it.

Pretty much the same reason for every unneeded UI rearrangement.

Knormal
Nov 11, 2001

So is it even going to be possible for an add-on to add the status bar back in Australis? What what you guys are saying it sounds like the new interface doesn't support creating additional bars.

three posted:

What's the "best practice" for handling Firefox updates in an enterprise? We're using Firefox ESR right now with auto updates turned off and our packaging team is manually packaging every new ESR release. This seems in-optimal.
That's how we do it at my place, other than turning automatic updates on and trusting users not to turn it off I'm not sure how else you'd do it. It's pretty easy to deploy, just a batch file to run the installer in silent mode pushed out through SCCM.

The Merkinman
Apr 22, 2007

I sell only quality merkins. What is a merkin you ask? Why, it's a wig for your genitals!

FRINGE posted:

I agree. Its someones idea of shoving their aesthetic on everyone and creating excuses for it.

Pretty much the same reason for every unneeded UI rearrangement.

By shoving you mean, "down your throat" because your way is the one true way to use a browser, right?

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.

Knormal posted:

So is it even going to be possible for an add-on to add the status bar back in Australis? What what you guys are saying it sounds like the new interface doesn't support creating additional bars.

It's already possible.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

The Merkinman posted:

By shoving you mean, "down your throat" because your way is the one true way to use a browser, right?
The non-popup bar that has been used for a very long time was just too hard to keep on with so now its removed so that we have dynamic popups that require a lot of user/pointer tracking and dynamic generation because that is "easier".

So yes. This was someone shoving their aesthetics on the users.

Your comment is actually exactly what is being done to the established users, you just got it backwards.

And its not working out too well.

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Feb 7, 2014

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

The Merkinman posted:

By shoving you mean, "down your throat" because your way is the one true way to use a browser, right?

Actually, if a user is happy and something changes they don't like, then essentially yes, their way is the one true way they want to use their browser.

There's nothing at all wrong with that, either, contrary to what many "change is great" people think.

That said, people question the wrong things at times. The awful staggered QWERTY keyboard has been unquestioned by most.

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Feb 7, 2014

The Merkinman
Apr 22, 2007

I sell only quality merkins. What is a merkin you ask? Why, it's a wig for your genitals!

FRINGE posted:

The non-popup bar that has been used for a very long time was just too hard to keep on with so now its removed so that we have dynamic popups that require a lot of user/pointer tracking and dynamic generation because that is "easier".

So yes. This was someone shoving their aesthetics on the users.

Your comment is actually exactly what is being done to the established users, you just got it backwards.

And its not working out too well.


First off, you're asuming people are leaving Firefox due to UI change. Maybe they feel Chrome is faster, or prefer Webkit Blink, maybe something else.
Second, even if you assume UI is why they are leaving, they are leaving for Chrome. Therefore the solution would be to make the UI more like Chrome...

HalloKitty posted:

Actually, if a user is happy and something changes they don't like, then essentially yes, their way is the one true way they want to use their browser.

There's nothing at all wrong with that, either, contrary to what many "change is great" people think.

That said, people question the wrong things at times. The awful staggered QWERTY keyboard has been unquestioned by most.
Completely satisfying a user is fine, completely satisfying all users is impossible.

I'm fine with people having different opinions, just not acting like their opinion is fact. I also don't like when a UI change is coming (Firefox, Windows, Ubuntu, etc) people only ask how it can be reset not how it can be improved.

GrizzlyCow
May 30, 2011

The Merkinman posted:

Second, even if you assume UI is why they are leaving, they are leaving for Chrome. Therefore the solution would be to make the UI more like Chrome...

Of course, if people are leaving because of the UI, it could be because of the changes to make Firefox look more like Chrome. I will say the only thing keeping me from leaving Firefox right now are a couple of add-ons and nothing else. Firefox is so close to Chrome aesthetically I figure that I might as well get the real deal instead of a second-tier knock off.


The Merkinman posted:

I'm fine with people having different opinions, just not acting like their opinion is fact. I also don't like when a UI change is coming (Firefox, Windows, Ubuntu, etc) people only ask how it can be reset not how it can be improved.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't get your point. It is not alright for people to be disappointed with changes in an UI? That's how you coming off to me. Like someone getting an attitude about some other internet people's legitimate grievances. I don't know how airing those grievances is bad. Because I am an idiot, you going to have to explain to me who was stating their opinions as fact. Other than the fact that they have an opinion (contrary to yours). On that point, why do people have to want to "improve" an UI change rather than revert to one that worked for them? Why is this a bad opinion?

I have questions, Merkinman.

I don't even know where your attitude is coming from. I'm like one of the five people on this planet that use the Metro UI unaltered and actually enjoy it, but I don't act like people who don't like the Metro UI are big babies. I recognize that Microsoft should've dealt with the change better. You can't issue a big change in an UI without people responding to it. Especially if the UI changes are not, in fact, better. You got to have a drat good reason to change things or, worse, cut things, or, people will get upset. If Mozilla or Microsoft think what may be a tiny minority of their userbase is not worth appealing to, that's alright. Don't know why the members of that userbase should be anything be quiet with their disappointment. There's always the off-chance that Mozilla will recognize the importance of that feature or previous UI and bring it back.

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Avenging Dentist
Oct 1, 2005

oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh

GrizzlyCow posted:

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't get your point. It is not alright for people to be disappointed with changes in an UI?

Just complaining about UI changes is pretty much entirely pointless. I'm not sure any serious developers actually pay attention to user complaints, unless they're particularly well-expressed and provide potential solutions (or if the developer already agrees with the complaint and just didn't have time to fix it yet). If you really want to make UIs that most people like, it's better to do stuff like A/B testing and user studies, since you can be quite a bit more scientific with them instead of making a change reactively just because of a vocal minority.

Mozilla software is also open source, so anyone can get involved and improve the software, even if that just means running Nightly once in a while and posting bug reports. Plenty of people working on Mozilla projects do so on a volunteer basis because they want to make the software they use every day better (e.g. me with Thunderbird). Complaining doesn't really help though; it's just catharsis. A lot of the complaints I see really boil down to "I was used to the old way", which is valid for that user, but doesn't do anything to help all the people who may have been confused by the old way.

Using Nightly on occasion helps you to get a feel for the changes being made before you have to deal with them on your "main" browser. Sometimes the issue really is just that you need some time to adjust; I used to be the type that would install "old-school" theme restorers until I realized that the time I spent trying to fix my browser would be better spent trying out the new UI. A lot of the changes I see in software updates are improvements once I get used to them (at least to how I use the software), so I've tried to keep an open mind about changes. If I've given the update a fair chance and I still can't adapt, then I'll try to compose my thoughts and file a bug.

And, as mentioned, if you like your browser UI to remain unchanged for long periods of time, you can use SeaMonkey, which still looks like the Mozilla Suite for the most part.

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