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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:xposting look at my lovely mini Can't really make out any detail or how good the actual painting is because of the dodgy photo, but the colours look great.
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Feb 4, 2014 23:47
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Yeah my phone wasn't focusing, I really need to make a lightbox/start using an actual camera. I'll post a better picture when I'm back home.
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Feb 4, 2014 23:49
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Phyresis posted:Nah, Codex: Space Marines do still do "lots of bikes supported by terminators" better than DA. DA are good for a few support pieces as an allied army to Imperial forces, particularly IG. I don't believe that Marines can quite mimic the combination of Ravenwing scout move plus deathwing assault allowing for the entire army to hit the opponent first turn with twin-linked on all bolters. White scars can match them in regards to bikes but no marine chapter can match the turn 1 hammer that Dark angels can throw around. Most armies are only seeing full engagement of the enemy models turn two.
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Feb 4, 2014 23:51
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Khan gives all his bikes Scout and who gives a poo poo about overpriced, fragile Terminators. Grav guns alone are just better than anything Ravenwing bring to the table.
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Feb 4, 2014 23:55
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JoshTheStampede posted:I have never understood people who are totally fine playing against any codex, unless your models are painted the wrong color and then they leave in a huff. I think his point was that the guy had an ultramarine army, spotted that his opponent had orks and then decided they were crimson fists to give his army preferred enemy: orks. which in my opinion, is pretty low. It's more a point against list tailoring than colours of spacemans.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:02
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Phyresis posted:Khan gives all his bikes Scout and who gives a poo poo about overpriced, fragile Terminators. Grav guns alone are just better than anything Ravenwing bring to the table. Grav guns are certainly better against marines but against literally anything else I'd rather have plasma. As for deathwing being fragile; they may not have storm shields but you don't need storm shields against most threats and those that you do, you should be able to cripple turn 1 when the entire army arrives at point blank range. And yes, I conceded that Khan allows space marine bikes to perform as well as ravenwing bikes and if you want to just run lots of bikes white scars are the army to run but if you want to run a list that uses bikes and terminators I still believe that Dark Angels are the more viable option. And paying 4 points a model for fearless, split fire, and guaranteed reserves seems like a good deal to me.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:02
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Cataphract posted:I think his point was that the guy had an ultramarine army, spotted that his opponent had orks and then decided they were crimson fists to give his army preferred enemy: orks. which in my opinion, is pretty low. Yeah, that is legit shady. I'm talking about people who get angry that your red marines are space wolves, when they would have had no problem playing against space wolves otherwise.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:03
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TheChirurgeon posted:So in a couple of weeks (President's Day Weekend), I'll be back down in MD for a game of Apocalypse. The game will be around 7-8k points with Shadow Daishi and I taking on ANAmal.net, Night Lords and Iron Warriors vs. Dark Angels. We're loosely planning to do a year-long narrative campaign type deal, with each game having some kind of impact on the next one. This scenario is going to own hard enough to make up for having to build all that loving terrain, I think. I'm already getting pumped.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:06
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Cataphract posted:I think his point was that the guy had an ultramarine army, spotted that his opponent had orks and then decided they were crimson fists to give his army preferred enemy: orks. which in my opinion, is pretty low. This is one of several reasons why army-specific abilities are dumb as poo poo and need to be retired, regardless of how fluffy they are.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:07
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I can see caring if someone had like, Blood Angels iconography/models and used them as Space Wolves, just because it'd be really confusing to me. I'm fine with army-wide USRs and stuff (and PE:O is actually from Kantor, not from being a Crimson Fist), it's just really annoying that C:SM has allowed a pretty high level of shitlord-dom with me trying to remember this loving neckbeard's obvious Imperial Fists are actually White Scars, and then next game his Imperial Fists are Ultramarines, and then they're actually Imperial Fists (with an Inquisitor detachment!).
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Feb 5, 2014 00:14
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drat, all this talk about 6th ed marines made me realize that Prism is on the imperium map. Would Rainbow Marines count-as-Emperor's Children work?
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Feb 5, 2014 00:16
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The infamous redhead with Tourette's whose tick is dancing that I've mentioned several times before here decided to run his unique Blood Raven IC the other day. The IC had a 2+ save, 6T, 5WS and 5BS. He also had some really weird special weapon that pretty much slaughtered my entire army singlehandedly. The reasoning behind this anecdote is to ask a simple question - what do you do when people insist that they use some really dodgy special rule/character that's clearly OP?
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Feb 5, 2014 00:18
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I'd allow it. Though honestly the complaints against the chapter tactics in codex space marine could easily be leveled against any of the variant lists. Just this last sunday I saw a guy using iyanden list and I had to do a bit of a double take because even though I play eldar some of the crap that they had at their disposal caught me off guard. Noctis Horrendae posted:The reasoning behind this anecdote is to ask a simple question - what do you do when people insist that they use some really dodgy special rule/character that's clearly OP? And if someone wanted to play me with that I'd politely decline.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:18
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ANAmal.net posted:This scenario is going to own hard enough to make up for having to build all that loving terrain, I think. I am loving pumped for this game. Probably won't have the warhound painted in time though.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:19
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Noctis Horrendae posted:The infamous redhead with Tourette's whose tick is dancing that I've mentioned several times before here decided to run his unique Blood Raven IC the other day. haha what? why would you allow someone to use some dumb mary sue in a game? LordAba posted:drat, all this talk about 6th ed marines made me realize that Prism is on the imperium map. How dare you accuse the Rainbow Warriors of heresy that was never proven
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Feb 5, 2014 00:21
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Are we talking about a mary sue special character as in something that's actually in a codex or forge world rule somewhere, like a counts-as Kaldor Draigo (or whatever), or something that the dude literally made up himself?
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Feb 5, 2014 00:23
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JerryLee posted:Are we talking about a mary sue special character as in something that's actually in a codex or forge world rule somewhere, like a counts-as Kaldor Draigo (or whatever), or something that the dude literally made up himself? I don't know anything about any Blood Raven ICs (if any exist) but it seems made up?
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Feb 5, 2014 00:27
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Speaking of lists, one of the dudes who posts in my Local Gaming Group sent us this today.quote:Holy poo poo. So apparently due to the new tau data slate sheet update. The fire support cadre counts as it's own formation.....which doesn't count towards FOC (force org chart for the newbies) ... Which means you can bring a riptide and 6 broadsides that don't count for anything... Ok lol and on top of that, if you have the new farsight book you can bring another HQ riptide along with the ability to bring reg suits as TROOP CHOICES. Haha so would anyone like to fight against a impossible army of 5 riptides, probably 12 broadsides and a tank or two... Up to 18 reg suits, along with farsights 7 body guards... And marker lights making all the above bullshit bs 5 or higher... Like what the crap could beat that list?! I guess this is taus revenge for all the bullshit the past 6 years lol Is this even A Thing? If so, what would be the best way to send mans to punch it into oblivion?
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Feb 5, 2014 00:35
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Space Communism Robots will always defeat you there is no escape. edit: glad I've been playing Tau since 2004, I was into them before they were overpowered. 
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Feb 5, 2014 00:36
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JoshTheStampede posted:Yeah, that is legit shady. I'm talking about people who get angry that your red marines are space wolves, when they would have had no problem playing against space wolves otherwise. To play devil's advocate. I can understand the issue because it demonstrates that the player has a WAAC attitude. They painted up a Blood Angels army when it was king of the hill but now they want it to count as this week's optimum build. If we're just playing a casual game, just play Blood Angels. TheChirurgeon posted:This is one of several reasons why army-specific abilities are dumb as poo poo and need to be retired, regardless of how fluffy they are. you're telling me... thunderfire cannons hurt my boys enough without having preferred enemy... Cataphract fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 00:36
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HerrMorden posted:Speaking of lists, one of the dudes who posts in my Local Gaming Group sent us this today. It's a thing insofar as yes that's probably like a 2000 point list
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Feb 5, 2014 00:37
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I don't know anything about any Blood Raven ICs (if any exist) but it seems made up? I never seem to be clear enough in my posts - sorry. Yeah, he made it up entirely on his own and came up with some bullshit special weapon. He kind of "hid" the rules for the character and downplayed how OP the IC was, so I went along with it.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:45
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I thought it was fairly clear but the only issue I had was wondering why on earth you would allow it.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:46
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Noctis Horrendae posted:The infamous redhead with Tourette's whose tick is dancing that I've mentioned several times before here decided to run his unique Blood Raven IC the other day. Was it Mephiston? It sounds like Mephiston He's a Blood Angels special character and a beast (WS7 BS5 S6 T6)but he costs 250 points and has a couple of glaring weaknesses ie. he cannot join units and he has no invulnerable save. If you see him on the table best to think of him as a monstrous creature and treat him the same way you'd treat a hive tyrant.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:46
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I thought it was fairly clear but the only issue I had was wondering why on earth you would allow it. Because, again, he downplayed the whole thing and made the character seem a lot less OP than it actually was. He sprung a lot of special rules he came up with on me randomly in order to win the game. Also, poster below Super Neat Toy, Blood Ravens, not Angels.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:48
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:It's a thing insofar as yes that's probably like a 2000 point list 1958 points for 18 troops suits with absolutely no weapons or any other wargear, 3 minimum cost riptides, farsight and the HQ riptide, the formation at minimum cost, and 3 minimum size/cost pathfinder squads (so 12 markerlights total). So, no tanks, not much shooting, you cannot take the big farsight bodyguard squad at all, and not nearly enough markerlights to make everything that does have guns be able to hit BS5.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:54
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Because, again, he downplayed the whole thing and made the character seem a lot less OP than it actually was. He sprung a lot of special rules he came up with on me randomly in order to win the game. Also, poster below Super Neat Toy, Blood Ravens, not Angels. sure, but the way you described him it sounded like he was using Mephiston.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:57
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Cataphract posted:sure, but the way you described him it sounded like he was using Mephiston. They're both giant red dudes in power armour with really annoying rules, so I understand the confusion.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:58
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My wife bought me a pretty sweet warhams cabinet for my birthday... It has demonstrated that I have far too many warhams. Not pictured in this cabinet is a painted Blood Angels army... about 1000-2000 points of unpainted stuff for each of the three armies in there, an unpainted 1500 point minotaurs army and the beginnings of a Nid army. Cataphract fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 01:02
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Cataphract posted:My wife bought me a pretty sweet warham's cabinet for my borthday... It has demonstrated that I have far too many warhams. Pretty neat, love the paint schemes (From what I can see, at least). Iffy on the bases on the bottom 'Crons..kinda contrasts too much. That cabinet is huge, I dare not ask how many figures you own total. 
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Feb 5, 2014 01:04
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Yeah if anyone ever asked me to let them play their super snowflake IC that they just pulled the statline and rules for out of their rear end, I'd tell them to shove off. It's cool if you have a special character with a story behind him or something, whatever, but build him or counts-as him according to whatever codex you're using, why the gently caress would you think you can just make stuff up?
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Feb 5, 2014 01:06
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JerryLee posted:Yeah if anyone ever asked me to let them play their super snowflake IC that they just pulled the statline and rules for out of their rear end, I'd tell them to shove off. It's cool if you have a special character with a story behind him or something, whatever, but build him or counts-as him according to whatever codex you're using, why the gently caress would you think you can just make stuff up? I'm fine with coming up with special rules and fluff so long as the rules SOMEWHAT balanced. If you come up with a fluffy special snowflake that can take down an entire 40 figure army on its own, that's cool and all, but at least have a ridiculous weakness that can be easily exploited.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:08
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Everyone's idea of what's an appropriate balancing weakness or points cost is going to be different though, which is why (at least in theory) GW has the job of doing it in an objective fashion. I'm sure the guy honestly thinks that whatever he did is the entirely appropriate representation of his mary sue concept. It just seems like past a certain point you might as well be freeform roleplaying using your little plastic dudes, which actually doesn't sound like the worst way ever to have fun as long as everyone is on board with it, but it's not the same game anymore. edit: One of my pet peeves is related to this concept, namely that the rules for building your own lord/librarian/whatever aren't nearly as robust as I'd like them to be. You should be able to make a really cool monster (figuratively speaking) who has WS 7 or whatever, by point buying that poo poo. I want to be able to buy the option to reroll my psyker powers or buy a lightning claw with a storm bolter strapped to it or whatever. In my ideal armchair game designer land, the special snowflakes from the actual lore would be presented as examples of characters that could be built using this robust customization system, rather than, well, special snowflakes. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 01:12
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JerryLee posted:Everyone's idea of what's an appropriate balancing weakness or points cost is going to be different though, which is why (at least in theory) GW has the job of doing it in an objective fashion. I'm sure the guy honestly thinks that whatever he did is the entirely appropriate representation of his mary sue concept. It just seems like past a certain point you might as well be freeform roleplaying using your little plastic dudes, which actually doesn't sound like the worst way ever to have fun as long as everyone is on board with it, but it's not the same game anymore. If your opponent gets to have Mary Sue roleplay fun, then I should get to as well. The thing is this guy is a hardcore rules Nazi and wouldn't allow you to do that, which makes it hilariously  .
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Feb 5, 2014 01:18
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Noctis Horrendae posted:If your opponent gets to have Mary Sue roleplay fun, then I should get to as well. The thing is this guy is a hardcore rules Nazi and wouldn't allow you to do that, which makes it hilariously If my Swarmlord ever dies he automatically returns to the game from ongoing reserves in the following turn because fluff  Also he auto-wins against Ultramarines.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:27
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JerryLee posted:Yeah if anyone ever asked me to let them play their super snowflake IC that they just pulled the statline and rules for out of their rear end, I'd tell them to shove off. It's cool if you have a special character with a story behind him or something, whatever, but build him or counts-as him according to whatever codex you're using, why the gently caress would you think you can just make stuff up? Last time I was in a game where we got to use custom special characters none of them worked right. I submitted a superheavy that was pretty much a Chaos Fellblade with some weapon swaps (a Soul Burner and a pair of Plasma Cannons on the mini-turrets instead of heavy bolters), and ended up killing absurd amounts of stuff because it turns out Fellblades are pretty drat powerful even when repointed to 750 points. My opponents brought Necrons. One had a giant Canoptek Titan thing made out of a War of the Worlds tripod, which looked cool but was way too flimsy for its 1000pt + cost (even with a pair of Eldar Holofields, Quantum Shielding and oldschool "no Lance, Melta or anything" Living Metal) and 4 Death Rays for secondary weapons). It died from one plasma cannon shot rolling about 8 6's in a row after its shields had been knocked out (this was old Apocalypse where a 6 on a damage roll for a superheavy caused cascading damage) My other opponent brought his custom Necron Lord, which was something of a disaster of "I forgot to give it [X]". It was an Overlord with pumped stats on a Command Barge with multiple Tachyon Arrows, but no actual melee weapon, invuln or Scarabs. This meant it proceeded to charge my superheavy and flail around at unmodified S6 AP- before getting run over. There was also a rule on its statline that everybody had tried to explain didn't work - the Barge could apparently join a unit of super Tomb Blades. It turns out the rules problems of a vehicle which is a chariot with a character in it joining a unit of jetbikes are numerous and impossible to resolve.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:30
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JerryLee posted:Everyone's idea of what's an appropriate balancing weakness or points cost is going to be different though, which is why (at least in theory) GW has the job of doing it in an objective fashion. I'm sure the guy honestly thinks that whatever he did is the entirely appropriate representation of his mary sue concept. It just seems like past a certain point you might as well be freeform roleplaying using your little plastic dudes, which actually doesn't sound like the worst way ever to have fun as long as everyone is on board with it, but it's not the same game anymore. I've got entirely the opposite opinion with regards to customizable units. I'd much rather have a smaller selection of effective upgrades that are easy to remember than a huge chart to piece together some Frankenstein's Monster. Part of what made 4th edition really boring for me was the huge list of upgrades everybody pored through when making their armies. Hell the last time I played with Bulbasaur we all stood around for over an hour for him to figure out all the options and poo poo for his legion list. And it's a lot easier to forget about your opponent having small upgrades like +1 WS in the middle of the game. Obviously this gets easier as we play more games but it's still really boring to get bogged down in list building/referencing. I'd much rather have higher impact upgrades that are fewer in number.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:56
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It would also invariably lead to min-maxed super builds as people figure out the best combination of upgrades to make unkillable 4E WHFB style super lords.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:59
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PeterWeller posted:It would also invariably lead to min-maxed super builds as people figure out the best combination of upgrades to make unkillable 4E WHFB style super lords. And honestly, does it really matter if there's 15 armory options when only two to three of them will ever get used? Because in practicality that's how late third edition 40k ended up.
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Feb 5, 2014 02:02
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Well, there are always* going to be issues with some HQ choices (or whatever) being the min-max option and others being relatively not as good. The options might as well be interesting. That's where I'm coming from. But I admit I've never played in the eras you refer to that apparently tried to do that.
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Feb 5, 2014 02:08
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