|
Aurain posted:Just basically try to get Imperil on the enemies. You'll stagger them in no time with that on and from there it's nothing.
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 00:49 |
|
|
You'll stagger in no time with a Saboteur period. On top of debuffs being amazingly good, Saboteurs also boost the stagger gauge like a Ravager whilst simultaneously keeping it steady like a Commando. Saboteurs are amazing and nerfing them was one of the very, very few things I think XIII-2 did worse than the original.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:49
|
|
|
I guess you get it later then. It's a good spell and rules.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:49
|
|
|
Imperil is Crystarium level 5, I just got level 4 by beating a boss with Lightning/Hope. So no, Saboteur/Synergist is not amazing right now and it was completely loving awful in the section before Lightning/Hope. I guess getting Poison for Vanilla will help, but I'm not looking forward to this part nonetheless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 09:54
|
|
|
I'm getting excited for a Final Fantasy game for the first time in god alone knows how long and all this new info is just making it worse. What the gently caress is wrong with me? I absolutely would buy the gently caress out of a Gurren Lagann/Getter Robo RPG with the budget of your average FF game though, and it makes me infinitely sad that this has never been a thing that has happened. AllisonByProxy posted:Here's Lara Croft Lightning for those that missed the video: I genuinely like the outfit and the mini riot shield (minus the logo) but I cannot get over the dirt on her face. It just looks silly as hell.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 10:23
|
|
|
Kaboom Dragoon posted:I'm getting excited for a Final Fantasy game for the first time in god alone knows how long and all this new info is just making it worse. What the gently caress is wrong with me? I can't get over the really awkward facial expression on Lighting in the first picture. It must be super-distorted or something because it kinda reminds me of  .
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 11:35
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:Saboteurs also boost the stagger gauge like a Ravager whilst simultaneously keeping it steady like a Commando. This right here is the most important thing to know for the Sazh/Vanille parts. If you spend all your time in a RAV/RAV paradigm and just assume you can't stagger anything during these parts you will have an absolutely miserable time, since those areas introduce at least two enemy types (robots and scalebeasts) that take next to no damage until staggered. Oh god now I'm getting flashbacks to that part of wateyad's LP where he'd take a whole 30 minute video to kill one scalebeast 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 12:12
|
|
|
Suaimhneas posted:This right here is the most important thing to know for the Sazh/Vanille parts. If you spend all your time in a RAV/RAV paradigm and just assume you can't stagger anything during these parts you will have an absolutely miserable time, since those areas introduce at least two enemy types (robots and scalebeasts) that take next to no damage until staggered.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 13:00
|
|
|
Stagger growth isn't linked to damage. Certain role's attacks do high or low stagger growth. Commando doesn't increase stagger much but hits very hard when the % is high but also makes the rate decrease slowly. Ravager does middling damage but good stagger. Saboteur makes the rate decrease slowly and grow quickly but no direct damage. Spamming debuffs as a SAB because it builds the stagger gauge. Spam them until they're applied and keep Sazh as a Commando. Once you have all the debuffs you have on the enemy, switch her over to Ravager but keep Sazh as Commando.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 13:05
|
|
|
Gologle posted:Shut up. Jut shut the gently caress up. Every single time since you started your LP of Lunar 2 I've managed to forget Dragon Song ever existed until you keep bringing it back up. Please man, come on. Do you time these things or something? Do you get out of bed at a preconceived time and say: "WELP, I'm gonna go remind the world that Dragon Song was a thing!" loving walking draining your health. loving boring rear end plot and boring rear end characters. Why does the goddess, who has always had blue hair, appear as a pink haired girl? There are tons of stuff that I'd managed to bury about this dreadful entry into one of my most loved video game series, that you just keep tearing the scars open on. I remember asking the guy at Gamestop "Why is this game more expensive than other DS games" and he went off on a rant about how Lunar was the greatest series of all time and they finally had a new entry and the fucker actually sold me on the game. The Machine posted:I'm going to order Dragon Song off Amazon right now, thanks for this post. I would send it to you for the cost of shipping if I didn't live really far from everything
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 13:10
|
|
|
Oh god... Dragon Song. I had never played a Lunar game I went "Hey I got a DS, Pokemon still isn't out, I like RPGs, I've heard good things about the Lunar series. I'll give it a shot." I will never. EVER. Get that part of my life back... I finished it and it's just sitting there looking at me... forever... EDIT: That's actually why I was so kind to FF3DS, which is a horribly remade game as I've played and ENJOYED FF3NES. Because before that I had played Dragon Song and the idea of an RPG I had enjoyed, that wasn't pokemon on my DS? hell yes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 13:12
|
|
|
I thought Sazh didn't even have commando yet at that point, which is why people have such trouble staggering things in that section if they don't figure out the saboteur thing? Also a thing to watch out for is you can only spam saboteur spells if you're controlling them. The AI won't reapply debuffs that are already on the target, so AI-Vanille will only cast until the target's fully debuffed and then stand there doing nothing. RAV/SAB will stagger things in no time, but if you start in SYN/SAB and stay in it too long then you might lose the stagger-bar-stabilising effect and be unable to get it back.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 13:17
|
|
|
Does the game ever even say SAB both slows and raises the stagger bar? I've seen so many people not know that until they read about it on the internet, myself included. SAB is the Gau of FF13.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 14:10
|
|
|
No, but it's not hard to figure out if you pay enough attention to think "huh, the bar's dropping slowly even though I don't have a commando, I wonder why that is" If I was feeling charitable I might even think that this is why the game puts you in an extended section with no commando and a small number of possible role combinations due to only having two party members, so you can figure that out more easily. But I'm not sure S-E even knows that you can teach game mechanics that way, so maybe not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 14:20
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:Does the game ever even say SAB both slows and raises the stagger bar? I've seen so many people not know that until they read about it on the internet, myself included. There's a weapon Sazh can get that slows the stagger bar, so you can use 3 Ravagers at once without any penalty. Him getting Haste early too made him an awesome character to use.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 14:50
|
|
|
That loving Sned posted:There's a weapon Sazh can get that slows the stagger bar, so you can use 3 Ravagers at once without any penalty. Him getting Haste early too made him an awesome character to use.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 15:08
|
|
|
My favourite part of XIII/XIII-2's combat system is how when you're fighting an enemy you may want to use a Sentinel on to tank, for example, Behemoths really early on in 13-2, your squishies will automatically move next to the Sentinel and get splattered by its cleaving attacks, all but making it pointless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 16:05
|
|
|
Suaimhneas posted:No, but it's not hard to figure out if you pay enough attention to think "huh, the bar's dropping slowly even though I don't have a commando, I wonder why that is" I feel this is exactly what this section is supposed to be, and in some iteration of the game every mechanic was taught like this through you know, design. It just comes across as strange when every other aspect of the fighting is detailed in meticulous tutorial popups. I did like that section though, and once I got to the point where I could pick anybody I stuck with Sazh and Vanille for the entire game
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 16:11
|
|
|
The Sazh / Vanille part is counter-intuitive. Normally these two would be awesome because SAB attacks do add a bunch of stagger time, but due to the way the AI handles SAB and doesn't spam you have to play a bit differently: 1) Start off with Sazh SYN / Vanille RAV. Buff Faith on Vanille, then yourself. Once the buffs are up, 2) Shift to RAV / SAB. And wait. Do not attack anything yourself. Select the target you want to die, but do not attack it. Vanille will start to cast Deshell on it. As soon as a Deshell sticks, attack with your chain, then, 3) Shift to a RAV / RAV and blow that sucker up. With Faith and Deshell damage amps and the stagger time from the landed SAB spell, you will either stagger it or kill it outright. 4) Go back to step 2 and repeat from there. It is important NOT to start off with Vanille as a SAB or sit and wait for her to debuff everyone. If you do that, she won't cast any SAB spells, waiting for Deshell to fall off. You need that spell to effectively stagger enemies. Basically, buff up and assist Vanille for that section. That loving Sned posted:There's a weapon Sazh can get that slows the stagger bar, so you can use 3 Ravagers at once without any penalty. Him getting Haste early too made him an awesome character to use.  . Sazh is awesome though, Vanille / Sazh core runs me most of the game.derra fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 16:21
|
|
|
Great Lakes Log posted:I feel this is exactly what this section is supposed to be, and in some iteration of the game every mechanic was taught like this through you know, design. I guess it's possible, with the game's fractured development, that there was one guy off by himself designing this one area with that kind of design philosophy, not realising until three years had passed that everyone else was just throwing windows of text everywhere. Like the other guy who did the "Hope drives a mech" minigame in the mistaken belief that there would be a lot of minigames in a Final Fantasy, or the one who spent months modelling a single rock because nobody ever gave him a new task to work on It that was the intention, it might have worked better if those enemies were completely invulnerable until staggered, so people couldn't just keep plinking away until they fell over and then complain that it took so long.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
Suaimhneas posted:"Hope drives a mech" minigame I don't even remember this. e: I'm sure it's not as fun as it sounds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
Suaimhneas posted:I guess it's possible, with the game's fractured development, that there was one guy off by himself designing this one area with that kind of design philosophy, not realising until three years had passed that everyone else was just throwing windows of text everywhere. Like the other guy who did the "Hope drives a mech" minigame in the mistaken belief that there would be a lot of minigames in a Final Fantasy, or the one who spent months modelling a single rock because nobody ever gave him a new task to work on That's horribly sad
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Ohh is that what that did? Huh. I hated the upgrade system in FF13. I can't remember if you need to upgrade a weapon to get that ability, but I had it even though I didn't bother with upgrading for most of the game since you just find more powerful weapons anyway. Aurain posted:My favourite part of XIII/XIII-2's combat system is how when you're fighting an enemy you may want to use a Sentinel on to tank, for example, Behemoths really early on in 13-2, your squishies will automatically move next to the Sentinel and get splattered by its cleaving attacks, all but making it pointless. I didn't use Sentinels either, mostly because my party was Lightning, Sazh, and Vanille and none of them even had that role by default. Buffs tended to do the job for the regular game, but I never did any optional or post-game content. derra posted:Not using a Sab is penalty enough Yeah, but you don't need Saboteur out all the time, especially when you've already given the enemies all the defuffs they can handle. E: I know everyone hates XIII, but I wouldn't have beaten it if I didn't find the battle system enjoyable. One of my big problems with XIII-2 was that it both made battles pathetically easy, so all the strategies we're discussing were completely unnecessary, and also making you do a bunch of tedious JRPG poo poo and claiming that the game is non-linear. That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
ilifinicus posted:Vanille did not have attack spells, only debuff spells, while I was using her as a Saboteur. I don't know how you are keeping the stagger gauge up when she isn't providing damage output while in that role, because I can't keep it going without using Sazh as a Commando and doing gently caress all damage while doing it. All debuff spells raise stagger and slow it like Commando attacks do. Putting out a Rav/Sab combo for those sections basically will instant stagger things whiles a Syn/Sab set up will let you actually survive attacks. Seriously, use Saboteurs. Like, they're simply the loving best thing in the game re:Staggering/Making fights easy and fast.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:17
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:All debuff spells raise stagger and slow it like Commando attacks do. Putting out a Rav/Sab combo for those sections basically will instant stagger things whiles a Syn/Sab set up will let you actually survive attacks. I wanted to use a Snow/Fang/Sazh party but that meant no natural Medics. I mean I guess Snow/Fang/Hope would work once Hope gets Haste but it means having to use Hope.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
I used Hope as my Saboteur, because he goes straight to the -ga spells without wasting time on the weaker spells. For all that people complained about Hope being whiny, I saw him as a small angry killing machine, and his stats backed that up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:25
|
|
|
-Ga Sab spells are bad though. -Ga spells in general have tradeoffs and aren't straight upgrades to their base spells, and the 3 ATB cost of Sab spells in particular really sting, keeping them from affecting the stagger gauge much. Despite his possessing -ga spells, I consider Hope the worst Sab by a mile. Vanille, Snow, Fang and Light all have very solid Sab kits that can shine in different situations.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
That loving Sned posted:I didn't use Sentinels either, mostly because my party was Lightning, Sazh, and Vanille and none of them even had that role by default. Buffs tended to do the job for the regular game, but I never did any optional or post-game content. They did it all the time when you were fighting the Long Gui/Adamantoise on Gran Pulse in FFXII too. Those fights aren't hard by any means, but they're annoying because your characters are really dumb and decide to stand under their feet as opposed to staying safe and making fighting them not a chore. Of course, you can just spam Death at them, but that's kind of dull.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:34
|
|
|
Aurain posted:I don't even remember this. Lightning and Hope's path is blocked by barricades, but there's a broken mech walker thing lying by the road. Hope uses his never before mentioned mechanical skills to get it working and you spend a few minutes stomping along, crushing fences and soldiers underfoot, before it breaks again and is left behind. Hope never does anything else involving technology for the rest of the game
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:50
|
|
|
Aurain posted:I don't think I can resist screaming God is dead while wearing a fedora as an anime. It's like my life has been leading up to this point No, it was terrible and community be damned. The removal of forced grouping is what made WoW th success it was starting out and for good reason. People shouldn't have to start out by standing around in town spamming LFG for an hour before they can do anything. I want to be able to log in and feel like I accomplished something despite not devoting three hours to the game. For a game like XI you have to budget 2-3 hours to play the game that you have to pay money for every month.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
Suaimhneas posted:It that was the intention, it might have worked better if those enemies were completely invulnerable until staggered, so people couldn't just keep plinking away until they fell over and then complain that it took so long. Well, that would certainly fix the issue of complaining that fights took too long if you didn't know what you were doing. Instead, there'd be people complaining that they couldn't hurt certain enemies. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 18:14
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:No, it was terrible and community be damned. The removal of forced grouping is what made WoW th success it was starting out and for good reason. People shouldn't have to start out by standing around in town spamming LFG for an hour before they can do anything. I want to be able to log in and feel like I accomplished something despite not devoting three hours to the game. For a game like XI you have to budget 2-3 hours to play the game that you have to pay money for every month. You didn't have to start grouping in XI until you got to the Valkurm Dunes generally and starting out fully allowed you to solo content. The design ethos with XI was a game that had challenge and encouraged you to play with other people. That's why it's an MMORPG and not an Open World JRPG. You ended up being in linkshells with people you got to know and the community made it unless you were crazily anti social which would beg the question as to why you would ever bother with any MMO. The fact that XI hasn't died an horrible death is pretty evidential of a genuinely good MMORPG and any other would love its success, except WoW, Everquest and any other that has made it ten years and still going.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Neptunia has more sequels than FFXIII. Just putting that one out there. It's really, really, really bad. Ha! You weren't kidding: quote:NIS America's president, Haru Akenaga, stated that the game was "not the kind of title we should release in the United States because of its quality", and that he felt "really sorry for our customers because we released that title" How bad was it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:Ha! You weren't kidding: In short, the game revolved around playing 'connect the dots' with enemy weakpoints. Enemies would have dozens of randomly-arranged weakpoints like their left/right upper arms, ears, eyes, points on their torso, etc. There were absolutely no hints on what order they should be attacked in, and each attack eats up one AP, which you usually need to stockpile to hit all the points. So, what the game wanted you to do was you hit the right weakpoint with the right attack (like the seventh weakpoint with your seventh attack), and hopefully chain weakpoints so you could get extra damage/AP/whatnot. And if that isn't enough of a dumb slog, after grinding down the dozens of turns worth of HP enemies have, there's another whole system for finishing off enemies that's just as dumb as grinding them down - you can't just kill them. It's stupid, boring, awful, and absolutely irredeemable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
Aurain posted:My favourite part of XIII/XIII-2's combat system is how when you're fighting an enemy you may want to use a Sentinel on to tank, for example, Behemoths really early on in 13-2, your squishies will automatically move next to the Sentinel and get splattered by its cleaving attacks, all but making it pointless. This. This so loving hard. Hmm yes let's have conical / aoe attacks but not let the player manually adjust their positioning. Certain enemies could be braindead easy or painful depending on where your party members decided to stand.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 18:38
|
|
|
S-Alpha posted:It's stupid, boring, awful, and absolutely irredeemable. Christ almighty. Makes me glad I missed out on it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
Great Lakes Log posted:That's horribly sad No. It's amazingly hilarious. Imagine what this guy was thinking during those weeks, imagine when his SO or friends asked him how work was going, imagine what happened when someone found out. Just imagine this dude sitting there for weeks in a dingy office, in a void of missinformation, Brazil style, modeling a loving video game rock. You could make a screenplay out of that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
Aurain posted:My favourite part of XIII/XIII-2's combat system is how when you're fighting an enemy you may want to use a Sentinel on to tank, for example, Behemoths really early on in 13-2, your squishies will automatically move next to the Sentinel and get splattered by its cleaving attacks, all but making it pointless. Sentinels kinda suck but it's really easy to have snow be a commando, rush in to attack, then switch him to sentinel while he's away from your other two. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:This. This so loving hard. Hmm yes let's have conical / aoe attacks but not let the player manually adjust their positioning. Certain enemies could be braindead easy or painful depending on where your party members decided to stand. Just target the one in the middle.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
Aurain posted:The forced grouping in XI wasn't bad, and it helped forge a strong community. I'm still acquainted with people from all parts of the world from friendships built in XI. Well, excuse me for thinking it would be cool, effectiveness be damned, to play a Red Mage/Thief. gently caress MMOs, basically. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 00:49 |
|
|
Aurain posted:My favourite part of XIII/XIII-2's combat system is how when you're fighting an enemy you may want to use a Sentinel on to tank, for example, Behemoths really early on in 13-2, your squishies will automatically move next to the Sentinel and get splattered by its cleaving attacks, all but making it pointless. Ok I'm not saying you're wrong about people walking in the way of attacks, it's pretty stupid, but if you're tanking behemoths at the start of 13-2: A) you're supposed to be avoiding the behemoths, and B) the game straight-up tells you before the first boss "tanking is completely inferior to dropping SEN/SEN/SEN when you see an attack coming, just fyi, and everyone spends at least 5 minutes telegraphing their moves now so you can't miss it".
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 19:28
|
|
