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Tempo 119 posted:Ok I'm not saying you're wrong about people walking in the way of attacks, it's pretty stupid, but if you're tanking behemoths at the start of 13-2: A) you're supposed to be avoiding the behemoths, and B) the game straight-up tells you before the first boss "tanking is completely inferior to dropping SEN/SEN/SEN when you see an attack coming, just fyi, and everyone spends at least 5 minutes telegraphing their moves now so you can't miss it". They're actually very doable at the start of the game if you have a Pulse Knight tanking it. And maybe any other SEN. You need a tank so you can actually kill them and switching to Sen x 3 is pretty hit and miss because it's not its big move that sucks, it's its regular sweeps which are pretty quick. It's touchy in place of just letting a Pulse Knight tank it for you and try and hope you're not in the way. You'll be able to burn it up to 200% stagger, at which point Noel should be able to finish it off easily in his Commando paradigm and finish it off in 1:30 for a 5 star kill on Normal. I was doing it a couple of days ago. The only difficulty in the fight is that automatic movement and thank god they let you move Lightning around and dodge in LR.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:38
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The White Dragon posted:Pfft, this was the exact opposite of my experience. The second you took a dualclass combination that the sperglord hivemind disapproved of, you were untouchable as a caste peasant in India even if you had a LS.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:38
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Endorph posted:Well, why would they take someone ineffective when they could take someone effective? Because they're not a horrible, fun-hating sperglord? Seriously, this is why MMOs suck. The player base has this lovely attitude and game mechanics promote it. As a member of SFD, this is the attitude we try to sqaush anytime it comes up.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:40
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SSNeoman posted:Because they're not a horrible, fun-hating sperglord? Seriously, this is why MMOs suck. The player base has this lovely attitude and game mechanics promote it. Both sides have their valid arguments. If something's going to take 4 hours and it's difficult content when level appropriate, it's not fair to waste people's time because you feel like being a WHM/THF. You might be having fun, but someone else might not be because someone's dragging everyone down. If it's easy and you're doing things to have a good time and so is everyone else, who gives a crap? It's not like you have to be on your A game or go home 24/7, but if you're going to be impacting on other people's enjoyment because you have to play some combination that is useless? That's poo poo. MMO's are team based games. You work in a team and succeed in a team or fail in a team. It's as much a failure of the player's if they somehow haven't grasped that as it is of the game for necessitating good teamwork.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:44
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The White Dragon posted:Pfft, this was the exact opposite of my experience. The second you took a dualclass combination that the sperglord hivemind disapproved of, you were untouchable as a caste peasant in India even if you had a LS. Endorph posted:Well, why would they take someone ineffective when they could take someone effective? This. There's an important distinction between "novel, against the grain, but weirdly effective" and "ineffective, and other people don't do it, generally because the game mechanics simply Don't Let It Work". Contrast bard blink-tanking (back when mazurka was crazy high threat generation) with trying to make a mage do effective melee damage or a melee be an effective (offensive) mage. The damage and hit rate formulas just didn't work out for the latter cases. But in the former case the bard blink-tank has both threat and survivability so hey, it's weird but it fulfills the requirements for tanking so people will be willing to give it a go. In general, in order for something to fly in an MMO, especially when grouping with strangers, you need to be able to objectively justify why you're doing it and that it actually works within the scope of the mechanics. (In other words, not a subjective "this is my $X/month and I'm being creative for my own fun".) If you can, then people will generally nod or shrug and give you the benefit of the doubt. If you can't, then maybe stick with cookie-cutter stuff until you've got enough grasp on mechanics to come up with an effective unusual combo. Now, when grouping with (understanding) friends, when doing trivial content, or when soloing, go with whatever wacky off-the-wall ideas you like, even if the mechanics are all like "dude, give it up". That's no different than playing a single-player game, and that's the situation when you don't have to look any further than your own fun, effectiveness be damned. But if you're doing something vaguely current/challenging? Other players, unless they know you, expect you to be playing relatively normally, not to be playing a hard-mode self-limiting challenge because either a. you're knowingly challenging yourself (... and them), or b. you're too ignorant to know/accept that that's what you're doing. This is not an unreasonable expectation on their part. You don't have to be the master theorycrafter sperglord, but you should at least have the basics down.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:59
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Vil posted:But if you're doing something vaguely current/challenging? Other players, unless they know you, expect you to be playing relatively normally, not to be playing a hard-mode self-limiting challenge because either a. you're knowingly challenging yourself (... and them), or b. you're too ignorant to know/accept that that's what you're doing. This is not an unreasonable expectation on their part. You don't have to be the master theorycrafter sperglord, but you should at least have the basics down.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:03
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Aurain posted:If something's going to take 4 hours and it's difficult content when level appropriate, it's not fair to waste people's time because you feel like being a WHM/THF. You might be having fun, but someone else might not be because someone's dragging everyone down. I hear this argument a lot. But usually this is far from the case, you realize that right? Nerds usually have some obsessive ideas and they stick to their guns regardless what other people think. "Your gs is too low!" "You don't have the right class!" "Oh you play dervish? lol" I mean you make it sound like people won't have a good time with you in the dungeon proper, but we both know that you won't even make it into the dungeon to "waste everyone's time". And before you ask, yes, I would run dungeons with people who have sub-standard builds. I literally did this yesterday. Because I want people to have fun, because I think it's fun and because I'm not a dumb exclusionary sperglord.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:08
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I understand the frustration, but that's kind of like showing up to an amateur softball game - something that's supposed to be just for fun - and calling them elitists for not letting you play because you brought a hockey stick instead of a bat.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:18
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Aurain posted:You didn't have to start grouping in XI until you got to the Valkurm Dunes generally and starting out fully allowed you to solo content. The design ethos with XI was a game that had challenge and encouraged you to play with other people. That's why it's an MMORPG and not an Open World JRPG. You ended up being in linkshells with people you got to know and the community made it unless you were crazily anti social which would beg the question as to why you would ever bother with any MMO. The fact that XI hasn't died an horrible death is pretty evidential of a genuinely good MMORPG and any other would love its success, except WoW, Everquest and any other that has made it ten years and still going. I can group with people and make friends in WoW or any other game, too. The difference, and why XI's design is inherently bad, is that I have the freedom to do things in a group OR do things on my own. And if I don't have time to get a full group together for a raid in WoW, I'm free to go out and do solo content and feel like I accomplished something. XI is only accommodating to one type of player and it's not anyone who thinks that being able to log in and accomplish something in half an hour on your own is not it. The final dungeon in FF3 is badly design for exactly the same reason: you have to do it in a huge chunk rather than on your own schedule E: ^^^^ the fact that XI has so many classes and so few combinations are viable, even ones that make sense like Thief/Red Mage, is another major design failing of the game. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 20:19
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SSNeoman posted:I hear this argument a lot. But usually this is far from the case, you realize that right? There's a difference between slightly under-levelled gear and outright incompatible class combinations that are a hindrance. I can't comment on MOBA type stuff, I don't like them. I wasn't going to ask that because I've run plenty of dungeons in my time with players who were incorrectly geared, using bad class combinations and out right not using the correct abilities but it doesn't mean that it's always fun. There's a fine line between fun and frustration, even when you're playing casually. Like, back when A Realm Reborn came out, I was healing Brayflox Longstop on my WHM (maxed level) for lowbies while grinding out some gear for aesthetics. I was doing it for fun and to help people out, but I came across players who refused to become a Paladin because they had fun roleplaying that and would only use their Gladiator class and were wearing poo poo gear. It made healing them impossible and they died to every hard hit because they had no HP or Defense. That wasn't fun for the two DPS classes who queue'd an hour to get in the dungeon. It wasn't fun for me. I don't understand your holier than thou attitude because you play for fun and are laid back and everyone else is a try hard exclusionary sperglord either. We all have fun in our own ways and if there's any responsibility in these kinds of games, it's a responsibility to try and make sure your idea of fun isn't impacting on that of others. If you want to use Warrior/Black Mage and only use Fire because you find that fun, that's great for you, but if you're doing it in a dungeon, other people aren't having fun because they're going to wipe. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 20:21
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Fister Roboto posted:I understand the frustration, but that's kind of like showing up to an amateur softball game - something that's supposed to be just for fun - and calling them elitists for not letting you play because you brought a hockey stick instead of a bat. You mean the hockey stick that's normally in the softball game? Because that's not really comparable. It's not like they're trying to create parties with hackers or something.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:22
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I think an additional issue is that unlike WoW or any other recent MMO, deaths actually cost you experience. This could lead to you losing a level. So when I or my friends were forming parties in FF11, we chose people who had the right job combinations because it made things less risky in general. Nothing was less fun in that game than scrounging together a party, going out to the zone, and then dying repeatedly and leaving further back than you even started. This might make me an exclusionary sperglord or whatever, but if I can only be on for a few hours that week, I'm not going to want to potentially make essentially negative progress by taking someone who thought DRK/WHM would be interesting. In games like FF14 or WoW where deaths are essentially meaningless, then it's really not that big of a deal to try more experimental things because at least you can at least make progress every time you get on.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:25
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I've always really enjoyed those runs where we wipe to the first boss because one dps is trying to play as a tank because he has a defensive passive and the other is decked out in caster gear, because I'm not a goony sperglord.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:25
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"I'm going to stand in front of the dragon and stab it in the mouth. It'd look loving sweet on my screen shot. Oh my god, Heals! Why'd you let me die?"
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Feb 6, 2014 20:29
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Phantasium posted:You mean the hockey stick that's normally in the softball game? Because that's not really comparable. It's not like they're trying to create parties with hackers or something. That's not my point. My point is that you're playing with something that doesn't work very well for the intended task, and because you're playing with other people, you drag down their enjoyment. You're free to swing around at softballs with your hockey stick on your own, or find people who enjoy that as well. But most people get enjoyment out of playing well, and it's not unreasonable for them to expect other players to contribute to that. It's not fair to call them tryhards or whatever for that.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:33
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Aurain posted:My favourite part of XIII/XIII-2's combat system is how when you're fighting an enemy you may want to use a Sentinel on to tank, for example, Behemoths really early on in 13-2, your squishies will automatically move next to the Sentinel and get splattered by its cleaving attacks, all but making it pointless. This is annoying as gently caress, and doesn't stop later in the game - proto-Behemoths are assholes. Tempo 119 posted:Ok I'm not saying you're wrong about people walking in the way of attacks, it's pretty stupid, but if you're tanking behemoths at the start of 13-2: A) you're supposed to be avoiding the behemoths, and B) the game straight-up tells you before the first boss "tanking is completely inferior to dropping SEN/SEN/SEN when you see an attack coming, just fyi, and everyone spends at least 5 minutes telegraphing their moves now so you can't miss it". Swapping to Turtle is flat out not practical in some cases, specifically many of the behemoth archetypes if you're not leveled for them. I've wiped twice in a row now to a proto-Behemoth in Academia 500AF and I've got Turtle set up as well as a collection of other SEN/X/Y paradigms. This is something I enjoyed a lot about the LR demo, as I had just finished getting wiped when I played it. The ability to move yourself felt pretty fresh compared to watching Noel derp his way into the path of a 20-foot sword for the 5th time.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:33
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Ya know, I'd probably invite the poorly-combo'd person to my party eventually. If there weren't people with more effective combos around. But it would be a pretty safe bet that either I or some other party member would start chatting to them about their ineffective choice of combo. Depending on the tactfulness of the player, this could range from rude and harsh criticism, to a calm explanation of game mechanics and suggestions for improvements. But either way, it's really likely that there'd be some sort of social effect to the tune of "you're underperforming, we're partying with you anyway because we're either generous or desperate, but we're telling you why you're underperforming and either overtly or covertly suggesting that you do something about that in the future". And besides that, XI in particular was - as already noted - not a very forgiving game encouraging of experimentation. You run into social issues like this in any multiplayer game, but you really run into them in games where screw-ups are painful.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:34
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Fister Roboto posted:You're free to swing around at softballs with your hockey stick on your own... Except in this case, where we're talking about a game that EDIT: Because I forgot they fixed it. Phantasium fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 20:40
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^ In its latter years, FFXI has been very solo friendly. Not so at launch. Also, you absolutely can go equipped with the wrong gear to fights on yourself in FFXI in any iteration of its existence. You'll just die because it's dumb. You'd likely die on most classes to a lot of monsters but especially if you're doing things badly. That's not the games fault. Vil posted:And besides that, XI in particular was - as already noted - not a very forgiving game encouraging of experimentation. You run into social issues like this in any multiplayer game, but you really run into them in games where screw-ups are painful. The best thing is that Ninja tanking wasn't exactly intended. It was discovered that the Utsusemi spells are actually really good at tanking and it became so popular that S-E would likely have faced some heavy protestation if it was "fixed". FFXI was definitely rather rigid in its ways and means, but that's probably one of the the best examples in all of MMO's of player experimentation becoming one of the go to things and eventually becoming a major mechanic the developers relied on players doing. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 20:42
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The problems with MMO's (or just maybe FF11, it's the only one I've ever tried) is that you can't play and enjoy the game the way you want. You have to play it exactly like a million nerds figured out it should be played five years ago, or else you'll just be standing outside a town whacking rabbits forever and ever.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:46
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Have they ever done any graphical upgrades to XI? I played it ages ago and got bored but sounds like it's pretty decent now. I'd just have a hard time getting engaged if the textures are still what they were in 2004 or so when I last gave it a shot.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:46
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Attitude Indicator posted:The problems with MMO's (or just maybe FF11, it's the only one I've ever tried) is that you can't play and enjoy the game the way you want. You have to play it exactly like a million nerds figured out it should be played five years ago, or else you'll just be standing outside a town whacking rabbits forever and ever. That and you usually pay extra for the privilege.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:48
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Have they ever done any graphical upgrades to XI? I played it ages ago and got bored but sounds like it's pretty decent now. I'd just have a hard time getting engaged if the textures are still what they were in 2004 or so when I last gave it a shot. They still release its expansions on PS2 in Japan, so no, no significant improvement. It did get a new UI though. It's still pretty clunky, but it's from the age of clunky games so it's probably never going to lose that, I'm afraid. Attitude Indicator posted:The problems with MMO's (or just maybe FF11, it's the only one I've ever tried) is that you can't play and enjoy the game the way you want. You have to play it exactly like a million nerds figured out it should be played five years ago, or else you'll just be standing outside a town whacking rabbits forever and ever. There aren't many MMO's that are sandbox style gameplay. They're really not everyone's cup of tea and I don't think most people realise that MMORPG games aren't what they thought they would be.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:49
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You'd think they'd put out a hi-res pack for PC or something... Oh well.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:50
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Aurain posted:The best thing is that Ninja tanking wasn't exactly intended. It was discovered that the Utsusemi spells are actually really good at tanking and it became so popular that S-E would likely have faced some heavy protestation if it was "fixed". FFXI was definitely rather rigid in its ways and means, but that's probably one of the the best examples in all of MMO's of player experimentation becoming one of the go to things and eventually becoming a major mechanic the developers relied on players doing. If I remember correctly, they did make it harder to tank by making you lose some enmity every time an enemy removes a shadow image from you. They didn't make it impossible, but a lot harder.
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Feb 6, 2014 20:51
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Attitude Indicator posted:The problems with MMO's (or just maybe FF11, it's the only one I've ever tried) is that you can't play and enjoy the game the way you want. You have to play it exactly like a million nerds figured out it should be played five years ago, or else you'll just be standing outside a town whacking rabbits forever and ever. The millions of nerds know it better, both from time and obsession, than Joe Newbie does. My question is what would give Joe Newbie the impression that he would know better than the millions of obsessive nerds? That's not say that Joe should be ostracized for experimenting, but it's highly unlikely that Joe's going to come up with anything new. If he wants to experiment to discover stuff for himself, cool. Sometimes that'll backfire on him if he picks a particularly ineffective combo and runs across someone with very little tact or restraint. If he'd rather skip the social shakiness and blend in, then he can, well, blend in and go with the established methods. It's not like he's in any way obligated to reinvent the wheel. And if he wants to try, he should do it with the awareness that he's reinventing the wheel while surrounded by a ton of people who already know how wheels work, and so he shouldn't be terribly surprised when he hears "dude, try the round design, winkwink" or "lol wtf are you doing with that POS triangular wheel you noob". I'm really not seeing the issue here, outside of Joe maybe having unrealistic expectations about jumping straight from ignorant to innovator without first catching up on common knowledge.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:05
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Vil posted:I'm really not seeing the issue here, outside of Joe maybe having unrealistic expectations about jumping straight from ignorant to innovator without first catching up on common knowledge.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:08
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Vil posted:The millions of nerds know it better, both from time and obsession, than Joe Newbie does. My question is what would give Joe Newbie the impression that he would know better than the millions of obsessive nerds? I'm sure this is all wonderful and correct but it still doesn't make it fun.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:11
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S-Alpha posted:In short, the game revolved around playing 'connect the dots' with enemy weakpoints. Enemies would have dozens of randomly-arranged weakpoints like their left/right upper arms, ears, eyes, points on their torso, etc. There were absolutely no hints on what order they should be attacked in, and each attack eats up one AP, which you usually need to stockpile to hit all the points. This only scratches the surface. The big gimmick in the game is that you had two characters who share one body. This includes their HP pool and all status effects. Including things like sleep. So if they get put to sleep or whatever... there's nothing you can do about it. Because there's nobody to heal it. except there are items to cure sleep that nobody can use. Fortunately the game has the biggest inverse difficulty curve I've ever seen. By the end of the game you have nearly infinite MP and tens of thousands of HP while enemies can only do maybe 200 HP of damage to you. So no threat of dying there just tedium. Also every attack animation takes for-loving-ever. Also one of the characters is utterly worthless because their gimmick is healing HP but you gain health back with a cure spell faster than they can ever regenerate. The game's world was almost completely empty of people for no clear reason. Just utterly barren. The graphics quite literally looked like PSP graphics. (It seems like it began life as a PSP game at some point?) There's tons of worthless gimmicks that never get used or get used once. The final dungeon in the game involves backtracking to every previous dungeon in the game to collect items, and those dungeons themselves makes FFXIII's look interesting. And the plot. Jesus, the plot. This game may be the sole reason I can look at FFXIII's plot and shrug because at least it isn't Last Rebellion. God, gently caress Last Rebellion. Now that is the Superman 64 of JRPGs.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:15
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I've always really enjoyed those runs where we wipe to the first boss because one dps is trying to play as a tank because he has a defensive passive and the other is decked out in caster gear, because I'm not a goony sperglord. This is SFD in a nutshell, so... Attitude Indicator posted:I'm sure this is all wonderful and correct but it still doesn't make it fun. Exactly. It's not fun and it's even more exacerbated when people are dicks to you. So not only do you have mechanics against you, you have nerds raging at you for not following some cookie cutter formula. We're talking MMO players here, so even basic civility flies out the window.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:15
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MMOs are not and never have been fun. They are addictive time sinks that string you along with the dopamine releases you may get from leveling up or completing a quest.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:15
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Vil posted:I'm really not seeing the issue here, outside of Joe maybe having unrealistic expectations about jumping straight from ignorant to innovator without first catching up on common knowledge. The issue is that that's boring as poo poo and not entertaining. Imagine playing any other game where you already knew how everything worked the first time around and could only realistically play in that one style or else the game would scorn you. What the gently caress is the point in having the variety, then? I mean, you could play FFXIII with bad paradigms and it would be boring and take forever but it's not like the game would reset the encounter and force you to play the "correct" way and insult you when it does it.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:17
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The White Dragon posted:My expectation was that I'd just get some folks to level with, but the community is so insular that apparently even leveling is frowned upon. First MMO I played and, short of private servers for like five people, it will almost certainly be the last. Might I suggest skipping the blanket judgment based on a non-representative sample, and instead trying one of the many other MMOs on the market that doesn't hold to 11's old standards of "you have to have a group for goddamned everything" in tandem with 11's long tenure, and only-dedicated/Stockholm-still-play insulated fanbase? Most of them also have the added benefit of not giving you quite as much freedom with job/class/ability combos, which also helps you avoid inadvertently pissing off the millions of nerds. Seriously though, try 14. In your free month you should easily be able to get up to max level and see the main story play out, mostly solo except for some dungeon grouping for which there's a hassle-free party-making system. Outside of the occasional run-in with an rear end in a top hat (which is unavoidable in any social circumstance, online or otherwise), so long as you're clear in each dungeon about "hey, I'm new, any mechanics I should be aware of", I highly highly doubt you'll get any grief. Unless you, like, play a mage and then try to contribute by smacking things with your book rather than casting any spells.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:18
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Epi Lepi posted:MMOs are not and never have been fun. They are addictive time sinks that string you along with the dopamine releases you may get from leveling up or completing a quest. This sounds like the words of someone who has never griefed or trolled people in an MMO. But yeah I actually agree with you. I'm not really familiar with FFXI but if it really is impossible to play solo then you should try and find some buds to play it with, which is something you should do when playing an MMO anyway. Barring that then I find it hard to believe that there aren't any casual guilds you can find your way into and if there really aren't then maybe you should just shelve the idea of playing it entirely and move on.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:19
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Actually, MMOs are pretty fun and have been for quite a while.Jibo posted:I'm not really familiar with FFXI but if it really is impossible to play solo then you should try and find some buds to play it with, which is something you should do when playing an MMO anyway. Barring that then I find it hard to believe that there aren't any casual guilds you can find your way into and if there really aren't then maybe you should just shelve the idea of playing it entirely and move on. It's solo friendly now and has been for 4 or 5 years. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 21:20
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ImpAtom posted:The big gimmick in the game is that you had two characters who share one body. This includes their HP pool and all status effects. Including things like sleep. So if they get put to sleep or whatever... there's nothing you can do about it. Because there's nobody to heal it. except there are items to cure sleep that nobody can use. This is one of the cool things about Pokemon, where you can use items, switch Pokemon, or run away even if your active Pokemon is unable to do anything. Needing a party member to perform actions like this is why you can easily get a game over in the first Final Fantasy even at high levels by encountering a group of zombies, since their attacks have a high chance of paralysing you and can whittle down your health without you ever getting the chance to act.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:24
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Phantasium posted:The issue is that that's boring as poo poo and not entertaining. Imagine playing any other game where you already knew how everything worked the first time around and could only realistically play in that one style or else the game would scorn you. What the gently caress is the point in having the variety, then? Your issue here is not so much with the game as it is with the fact that you will be playing with other people. Who will have opinions and expectations and will not be shy about voicing them. If you don't want "meet strangers' expectations" to be anything of a priority to you then no, you shouldn't play MMOs or anything else multiplayer with strangers. Stick to friends-only invitation-based multiplayer games where you can choose which other people you're interacting with, or single-player games. I realize that kinda comes across as a judgmental "if you can't hack it, don't do it", but I mean it at a surface level. Some people like the idea of informing themselves, getting up to "community standards", and being proud that they can pull their weight with their knowledge, well enough that even strangers are impressed. People like that, tend to enjoy MMOs more. Other people are like "gently caress that noise, I want to gently caress around and be an idiot if I want to, without having to hear about it or do any reading up about the game or anything". People like that, tend to enjoy MMOs less. Some MMOs are more forgiving of ignorance and have an easier learning curve, so they can serve as a sort of bridge for a player who might want to do stuff with strangers sometimes, but doesn't want to spend weeks poring over guides and spreadsheets to be sure they're fully informed. That doesn't make MMOs inherently good. Or bad. It just means that for some people they're enjoyable, and for some they're not, and for some only a more casual-gameplay MMO is enjoyable but a hardcore sperglord MMO is not. e: I still recommend trying 14, for anyone who's like "I kinda wanna check out MMOs but 11 was horrible".
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Feb 6, 2014 21:28
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Vil posted:. . . so long as you're clear in each dungeon about "hey, I'm new, any mechanics I should be aware of", I highly highly doubt you'll get any grief. No that's basically a vote-kickable offense to the majority of the playerbase because they are horrifying crybabies who, despite being wholly unable to do so themselves, want that Haukke Manor speedrun. If you think some "GTFO"-ing on part of people bitching about your subjob in 11 is bad, you would not believe the impotent rage bandied about when somebody has the sheer audacity to watch the story cutscenes in Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium. Also on the topic of 11 and the support Job rage, getting a subjob to 50 takes less than a week, and the only part you actually have to pay attention and get equipment for is Levels 1-30. Shaezerus fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 21:30
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Vil posted:Your issue here is not so much with the game as it is with the fact that you will be playing with other people. It's more like I don't like being told how to do something in a game the first time, I like to learn how something works. Someone telling me how to do something is generally boring and feels more like work than an actual achievement.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:33
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Shaezerus posted:No that's basically a vote-kickable offense to the majority of the playerbase because they are horrifying crybabies who, despite being wholly unable to do so themselves, want that Haukke Manor speedrun. If you think some GTFO-ing on part of people bitching about your subjob in 11 is bad, you would not believe the impotent rage bandied about when somebody has the sheer audacity to watch the story cutscenes in Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium. CM particularly has some laughably bad game design in regards to cutscenes. "Let's put a cutscene here while two Iron Giants spawn and mow down anyone who skips the cutscene!" Actually, CM and Praetorium are laughably bad as a whole. Phantasium posted:It's more like I don't like being told how to do something in a game the first time, I like to learn how something works. Someone telling me how to do something is generally boring and feels more like work than an actual achievement. I haven't come across many people who tell you what to do in a MMO. People usually don't say anything, or actually try to teach you how to play. It's not like "Don't stand in front of the dragon's mouth or you will die to its breath" is telling you what to do either. It's teaching you the tactics of the fight. They teach you tactics because in a team based game, one persons failure can mean failure for all when it could have been avoided, or one person actually listening to help offered could be victory for everyone. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 21:34
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