|
I'm gonna throw my opinion in and jump on the love train for Link Between Worlds. I played the first DS game and I enjoyed it, but not enough to get Spirit Tracks. I liked the GBA game and think it was worth playing (Minish Cap) but I don't know if I would go back and recommend it right now. Love Link's Awakening but I haven't played it in ages, since the GBC version. Never played the GBC Oracle games. I really, really liked LBW. It's the best handheld Zelda that has ever been put out I think. I personally have always preferred the 2D games to the 3D ones but I know not everyone feels the same way.
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 13:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 14:36 |
|
|
Craptacular! posted:FF7 and Ocarina were put on a pedestal is that they were first RPGs  RPGs? Zelda games are not loving RPGs. They have less RPG elements than most modern shooters. Zelda is basically the definition of the Action-Adventure genre. Why do a lot of people think this nowadays? Where has this plague spread from? Sorry, I get really mad about video games when people call Zelda RPGs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 13:23
|
|
|
An RPG does not have to be turn based or have experience points. Zelda has you managing an inventory system, diving into a dungeon to fight a boss at the end, and doing a lot more RPG-ish stuff than many other games at the time. Also, keep in mind that in the 90s, "RPG" became almost a catch all for any game with coherent plot and characters, or just going into a cave and slaying a dragon. The PC had the complex Wizardry/Ultima stuff, and the Sierra games, etc; but Zelda qualified in an age where many video games didn't give you a storyline about why you needed to blast asteroids because you just did and had fun. Zelda today looks more like a "hack and slash" game somewhat, I mean Darksiders is definitely an action game yet people compare it to Zelda a lot, but in the context of 90s gaming Zelda was definitely an "RPG", even if stretched the meaning of the term. Yes, today's shooters have elements of the 90s definition of RPGs due to every shooter's attempt to mimic Hollywood and give you some plot from a Bourne movie with cut-out Michael Bay characters. That's partially because the RPG boom of the mid-90s caused the public to want some kind of melodramatic reason to be doing what they're doing. That means that Id Software Throwaway Plots like "you are a marine battling evil monsters from the alien world Quake, so go shoot poo poo" wouldn't hold up anymore. You missed the point regardless. FF7 and Zelda64 got the attention of an audience who hadn't tried those games before and discovered, to their surprise, that they like them. And they became so popular that they have become this unattainable goal for the following games and it's imitators to try and put that lightning back in the bottle. The industry really has since seen such a genre boom once, with shooters after the first Modern Warfare. And just like how we're all sick of Zeldas trying to imitate Ocarina, shooter fans are tired of Call Of Duty campaigns that haven't progressed in five years because they're all trying to recreate the drama of the nuke scene and the airport sequence. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Feb 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 14:01
|
|
|
I desperately want a Zelda game with the non linearity, lack of forced minigames, and controls of Link Between worlds, but the more complex dungeon design of the Oracles series (with a little less backtracking than those dungeons). With an overworld somewhat in the middle in terms of navigability.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 14:47
|
|
|
ALBW is probably one of, if not the (YES I SAID IT) best Zelda - definitely the best one on handheld, and that's quite something, since with the exception of gimmicky DS nonsense all handheld Zeldas are incredible. (Seriously, the non-gimmick parts of the DS Zeldas are great!) That said, it's similar to Dark Souls in one aspect: it's as if the developers have found an incredible game concept that just WORKS and is incredibly fun, but it's not perfected yet. That's why I think the best next step would be to make ALBW 2.0, maybe even a direct successor, just to build on all the progress made with the formula. Some possible improvements: - An original world map (the ALTTP map was by no means bad, but it did have unnecessary empty spaces that were nonsensical even back in ALTTP). - Less renting shenanigans: the true revolution was making all gadgets available at the start, not renting them. In fact, it's downright a hassle to keep renting stuff if you die. I expect an overhaul of this element, while keeping the idea of making all gadgets available early to those willing to get them, while usually forcing players to choose which to take with them. - Dungeons using more than one gadget. It was nice having dungeons focused on one gadget throughout; would be even nicer to combine multiple ones to have even more refined puzzles. Not even the final dungeon required many different items, which seems like a missed opportunity... - MUCH BETTER DESIGN. ALBW is lightning-fast and very smooth, but drat is it ugly! Many designs are more or less copies from ALTTP, and they looked like rear end back then, too. Very noticable with enemies like the floating electric jellyfish (especially the bigger miniboss version, which looks hilariously low-effort), the weird pig soldiers, strange and ugly enemies like blob-with-tentacles and whatnot. Also, bosses - while fun fights - generally look like rear end, too. So many are just... eyes, or uninspired copies from ALTTP, design-wise. Too many dang eyes. (Admittedly, some - like the Masked King (?) - look incredible in the 3DS version.) - More inspired use of the hookshot. The great thing about the ALTTP hookshot was that it basically attached to EVERYTHING, making it much more versatile and interesting to use. Ever since then, hookshots have been progressively nerfed in every Zelda, to the point that you can only use them on marked spots. LAME! That is the very OPPOSITE of what a hookshot should do! It should open up new ways of movement like crazy! So drop the target / only-attach-to-wood nonsense, and make me Spiderman. DO IT. - This is related to the unnecessary worship of ALTTP, but I'll make it a separate point: MORE VARIED DUNGEONS, PLEASE. We have the usual themes of water, forest, lava, ice... imitated from ALTTP. Why aren't we getting ANY variations? Where's my lightning god machine temple? Where is my tornado destroying a town, frozen in time? Where is the inside of a giant ghost whale? (You made Jabu-Jabu, Nintendo, why don't you try to top that?!) There is no reason anymore to build on nostalgia - the formula is, finally, more than strong enough to carry pretty much any design. This game, if anything, has proven that. Most of these points are concerned with visual design, which should speak to the quality of the game. I really, really hope we get a ALBW 2.0, with lots of unexpected new elements!
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 15:08
|
|
|
Ursine Asylum posted:I've not done this yet, but this sounds like the epitome of the "it's not difficult, it's just an rear end in a top hat" school of game design, aka "Sierra". You can just press Up + B + Select or something on the second controller to save and quit. Soulcleaver posted:The Zelda series has been stagnant for quite some time now (I know a lot of you like Twilight Princess/Skyward Sword/the DS ones, but please reconsider your insanity). But why would Nintendo want to mix things up when almost everything they release with the Zelda brand name sells 50 million copies and gets near-perfect ratings everywhere? The Mario Galaxy series showed that they can do something new and interesting with an old franchise and still succeed commercially. The pressure to keep rehashing Ocarina of Time must be too strong, though. Like Metroid, Zelda isn't as popular in Japan as it is in the West, and Nintendo doesn't like that for some reason. You'd think it would be a good idea to allow different regions to have games tailored to their interests rather than focusing only on what Japan likes, but Nintendo thinks securing Monster Hunter as an exclusive and making a Dynasty Warriors Zelda game are better ideas. Sure, Monster Hunter stamped out any chance of the Vita becoming popular in Japan, but it's a completely niche game in the rest of the world. I bet people who bought a Wii U for MH3 Ultimate are pissed off that the next game isn't coming out for it, but they account for so few console sales it doesn't even matter. Twilight Princess is the exception since it was designed with Western audiences in mind, especially after the reaction to The Wind Waker. However, it's just a game designed to please fans, with very little new or interesting to call its own. It's just a tour through a prettier version of Hyrule from Ocarina of Time, with an attempt at a dark story that fails in every way that Majora's Mask succeeded.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 15:10
|
|
|
I just want a Zelda game where Link is a ridiculously badass swordsman and the Master Sword can cut through drat near anything. Give me crazy QTEs in a boss fight so Link gets to run up a gigantic monster and stab it while dodging a storm of fireballs. Basically, I want PlatinumGames to do a Legend of Zelda. They make really fun games, and Zelda is utterly plodding in comparison. It's currently a perfect match for Dynasty Warriors! 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 15:12
|
|
|
Torquemadras posted:- Less renting shenanigans: the true revolution was making all gadgets available at the start, not renting them. In fact, it's downright a hassle to keep renting stuff if you die. I expect an overhaul of this element, while keeping the idea of making all gadgets available early to those willing to get them, while usually forcing players to choose which to take with them. I thought this was great, if only so that you actually had a use for rupees. I thought that the absolute best achievement of this game was that it had an actual use for rupees throughout the entirety of the game. It works, in part, because of how much buying them cost. And you basically need the renting element to see which one you want/need.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 15:15
|
|
|
That loving Sned posted:There's also King's Field, which was a first-person dungeon crawler by From Software that launched with the PS1 in Japan. In the sequel (our King's Field I) the world is seamless and interconnected, and you can die right at the beginning by getting too close to that menacing-looking octopus, or even just walking off the ledge... I'm so happy to hear someone bring up one of my favorite game franchises. Kings Field were the hardcore, first-person, hack and slash dungeon crawlers of the 32-bit era. They are really hard, really immersive and totally open. If you're one of the ones who likes the original Zelda for being a "... annnnd, go!" no direction go wherever you want dangerous adventure, give the Kings Field series a try. I wish there were more like them these days. I've heard Dark Souls/Demon Souls are spiritual successors, but I have yet to try them. I played the other From software game about magic rings (what was it called again?), and while it was fun and very similar, it was a one-off. Does anyone who's played Kings Field have any recommendations for similar titles that I might enjoy? (Sorry for the derail)
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 20:28
|
|
|
NeilPerry posted:I thought this was great, if only so that you actually had a use for rupees. I thought that the absolute best achievement of this game was that it had an actual use for rupees throughout the entirety of the game. It works, in part, because of how much buying them cost. And you basically need the renting element to see which one you want/need. True - it's great that you finally have a use for rupees. But in a way, you're only spending money to stop the system from being annoying, which is not a good thing. I almost never died, so it wasn't really an issue for me, but having to re-rent stuff just isn't fun. I believe it would be a better idea to have every gadget available at the start, but only a limited number of slots, which steadily increases with every dungeon / can be found in the overworld or whatever. That way, you still have to pick and choose the ideal setup for dungeons, and all items are available from the start, but you don't have the unnecessary renting silliness... Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Basically, I want PlatinumGames to do a Legend of Zelda. Oh yes. It would be a fast-paced, incredibly silly Zelda with fun dungeons, great fights, incredible bosses and a rockin' soundtrack. Fans would proclaim it the greatest Zelda ever and I would weep tears of joy. But being a Platinum game, it'll sell about 100 copies
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
I'm only just now starting LBW (just got the Master Sword and entered Lorule last night), but holy poo poo do I love it. Early opinion and all, but I already consider it the best Zelda game I've played in at least a decade (wait, when did Wind Waker come out...yeah, okay, decade still works). The idea that this game came out after Skyward Sword amazes me, because it makes me wonder if Nintendo finally figured out what has been wrong this whole time. You know, unless LBW suddenly becomes a collection quest game like Skyward Sword now that I'm in Lorule. Which would be very disappointing. But given the opinions I'm reading on here, I doubt that happens. So drat stoked to be playing a fun Zelda game again!
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
Blasphemeral posted:I played the other From software game about magic rings (what was it called again?), and while it was fun and very similar, it was a one-off. Does anyone who's played Kings Field have any recommendations for similar titles that I might enjoy? The first one is called Eternal Ring for PS2, indeed similar. They also made two games called Shadow Tower (PS1) and Shadow Tower Abyss (PS2). The latter I consider the best refinement of those King's Field games and the leadup to the Souls games of the next generation, didn't come out in the US but there's a full working PS2 fan translation. They also did a weird space-horror series called Echo Night which had similar first-person controls. I'm excited to see more about Zelda U at E3 this year. I wonder if E3 2015 will have a 3DS announcement for a new game - I could see that, although if they do a MM 3DS remake I would hope for something sooner. e: and I keep forgetting about Hyrule Warriors, but it's hard to tell if that would even impact N's normal release cycles
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:I'm only just now starting LBW (just got the Master Sword and entered Lorule last night), but holy poo poo do I love it. Early opinion and all, but I already consider it the best Zelda game I've played in at least a decade (wait, when did Wind Waker come out...yeah, okay, decade still works). The idea that this game came out after Skyward Sword amazes me, because it makes me wonder if Nintendo finally figured out what has been wrong this whole time. There is a collection quest, but like everything else in ALBW, it's greatly innovated. They give you a map that shows how many if the items you've gotten already and, by region, how many of the item are left in each area. There's periodic rewards along the way, and best of all, it's entirely optional. Electromax posted:advice Hey, thanks, guy. I'll look into those.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 20:50
|
|
|
Blasphemeral posted:There is a collection quest, but like everything else in ALBW, it's greatly innovated. They give you a map that shows how many if the items you've gotten already and, by region, how many of the item are left in each area. There's periodic rewards along the way, and best of all, it's entirely optional. Oh, yeah, I started that already. Optional being a very key word. I can do it when I want, if I want. Unlike Skyward Sword, which just kept throwing required collection quests in your face. "Before entering this temple, find these 3..." "...find these 5..." "...find these 7..." "...find these 11..." "...find these 13..." And so on. Each one not only made me say, "Another?!" followed by, "Wait, I need to find even more this time?! But why?!" It was just the worst, and I have no idea why they thought that would be a fun part of the game. But if that optional collection quest is all ALBW has, then I'm happy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I just want a Zelda game where Link is a ridiculously badass swordsman and the Master Sword can cut through drat near anything. You're in luck  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOq4IiuRMWk I really hope this is a good play. It doesn't even need a story. Link is given a sword and told to stab stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
Torquemadras posted:- MUCH BETTER DESIGN. ALBW is lightning-fast and very smooth, but drat is it ugly! Many designs are more or less copies from ALTTP, and they looked like rear end back then, too. How an someone be so wrong? What's it like haven't a horrible opinion?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 01:23
|
|
|
LBW looks ugly in screenshots but amazing in motion. It's kind of weird that way, but when you're playing it it's clear how the simple style and the 60 FPS framerate contribute to a 3D look that really pops wonderfully.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
I'm doing my first playthrough of ALBW right now and I'm pretty far in- halfway through Lorule Castle. ALBW isn't a bad game by any means but IMO it's far from a masterpiece. This is mostly because of the choice to borrow so much from LttP. Outside of looking for Maiamais, exploring the overworlds is boring... because almost everything is laid out just like LttP. The art design is butt-ugly and dull... because they used designs straight out of LttP, which look much better as sprites than as 3D models. The adventuring items are boring... because they're almost all handed to you right out of the gate and because they're the same ones that were in LttP (minus the tornado and sand rods, neither of which are terribly interesting). Rehashing old games isn't a bad thing at all- look at Metroid Zero Mission or Yoshi's Island DS. ALBW just lacks charm in much the same way as the New Super Mario Bros games. Coincidentally, I'm also playing through Skyward Sword for the first time right now. I'm really having fun with this game and I'm not seeing why it gets poo poo on so much in this thread. The art style is charming. Exploring is fun because Link is so mobile and there are bugs to catch and all kinds of loot everywhere. There are a bunch of fun Wind Waker-y characters- most notably Ghirahim and Groose, but also random people around Skyloft. I'm not very far in, though- just in front of the second dungeon after assembling the key. Maybe it gets awful later. I'd also pick Twilight Princess over Ocarina anyday and my vote for best Zelda game is hands-down Four Swords Adventures. Ask me more about my minority opinions on Zelda games
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 01:51
|
|
|
Soylent Heliotrope posted:Coincidentally, I'm also playing through Skyward Sword for the first time right now. I'm really having fun with this game and I'm not seeing why it gets poo poo on so much in this thread. The art style is charming. Exploring is fun because Link is so mobile and there are bugs to catch and all kinds of loot everywhere. There are a bunch of fun Wind Waker-y characters- most notably Ghirahim and Groose, but also random people around Skyloft. I'm not very far in, though- just in front of the second dungeon after assembling the key. Maybe it gets awful later. It gets poo poo on mainly for two reasons- some people have a lot of trouble with the motion controls, and Fi never shuts up, especially about collectibles and solutions to puzzles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 01:54
|
|
|
Soylent Heliotrope posted:I'm doing my first playthrough of ALBW right now and I'm pretty far in- halfway through Lorule Castle. ALBW isn't a bad game by any means but IMO it's far from a masterpiece. This is mostly because of the choice to borrow so much from LttP. Outside of looking for Maiamais, exploring the overworlds is boring... because almost everything is laid out just like LttP. The art design is butt-ugly and dull... because they used designs straight out of LttP, which look much better as sprites than as 3D models. The adventuring items are boring... because they're almost all handed to you right out of the gate and because they're the same ones that were in LttP (minus the tornado and sand rods, neither of which are terribly interesting). Rehashing old games isn't a bad thing at all- look at Metroid Zero Mission or Yoshi's Island DS. ALBW just lacks charm in much the same way as the New Super Mario Bros games. I agree with your sentiments on ALBW and Twilight Princess to an extent. I don't understand the amount of love for ALBW at all, it's a solid Zelda game but the world it takes place in isn't that great, which to me is a big deal in a game where people claim the exploration was top knotch. And I think Twilight Princess had it's flaws but I enjoyed it a whole lot more than The Wind Waker, which is now one of the games everyone thinks is the bees knees. Twilight Princess may have had too many rupees used for rewards, but TWW and ALBW are no different on that score in my opinion, they just have bigger wallets.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
Although I enjoy it as a game, I don't think A Link to the Past was particularly pretty. Their spritework improved tremendously by the end of the SNES, with beautiful games like Yoshi's Island, and that continued onto the GBA with Mother 3, but early SNES games like Super Mario World had problems with colour palettes (Mario is magenta and cyan for some reason), and enemies lacked the animation and personality Yoshi's Island brought to them. Some of it comes down to cartridge sizes being smaller, and not being able to fit in as many sprites, but Super Mario World is just a less appealing game to me compared to Super Mario Bros. 3, despite its greater limitations. A Link to the Past in particular suffered from dungeon tilesets being reused, making dungeons feel a lot less distinct than in the later 3D games. Characters always seemed to have this blank expression on their face, and the perspective made them look really portly. The games I'm comparing it to include Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, and Dragon Quest III, with the latter one being one of the best looking (and sounding) RPGs on the system, although the characters themselves are far less expressive than in Square's games. Here are some shots from Dragon Quest III:       And A Link to the Past:     
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 02:29
|
|
|
I don't disagree with your general point, but I think the difference in artwork between DQ3 and ALTTP is (at least partially) a stylistic choice. I look at the tiles in the DQ3 shots and they're almost too detailed, if that makes any kind of sense. It's a very densely packed artwork style, I guess. ALTTP's style is very clean and crisp.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 02:41
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:I don't disagree with your general point, but I think the difference in artwork between DQ3 and ALTTP is (at least partially) a stylistic choice. I look at the tiles in the DQ3 shots and they're almost too detailed, if that makes any kind of sense. It's a very densely packed artwork style, I guess. ALTTP's style is very clean and crisp. It might just be because they're at the original resolution, so they're a lot sharper than how they'd look on a TV. I understand how trying to show every tuft of grass with sprites can make it look busy, but it's good that the level of detail is consistent throughout the image, rather than having large areas of a single solid colour for grass or water. Something I forgot to mention, and unfortunately doesn't have a gallery of screenshots on the site I linked, is The Minish Cap for the GBA. I think it's a great adaptation of the Wind Waker art style into a top-down game, and it fixes one of my main problems with ALTTP by having very well animated and expressive character sprites. E: Here we go:   
That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Feb 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 02:47
|
|
|
Spectacle Rock posted:You're in luck Totally different! I love Musou games, so Zelda Musou looks sweet as well. But I mean something frantic and ssstylish, like Vanquish or Revengeance.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 03:21
|
|
|
Soylent Heliotrope posted:my vote for best Zelda game is hands-down Four Swords Adventures. I agree with this statement. Four Swords Adventures with four players is easily the most fun Zelda game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 03:33
|
|
|
I'd really love another Four Swords, or even an FSA port with a more practical multiplayer setup.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 03:35
|
|
|
Like online co-op or something? Has anyone ever made an online co-op game before? I only own Nintendo consoles so I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
So I'm a few months late as I don't often post but I'd like to add that I really liked ALBW. It's not the next big thing for Zelda and doesn't exactly reinvent the wheel but it took what worked well in the original games and have modernized and streamlined in a really good way. At first I thought it was a bit short like the dungeons were over too quickly but I'm putting that down to being way too familiar with Zelda in general. Particularly to compare it to the 3D games all of which have a lot of plot-progress gates, it slows down the pace a fair amount which TP and SS are very guilty of. Whereas being able to just pick up the game, rent a whole bunch of items and clear dungeons. I'm probably also a bit weird as I've played every game but don't outright dislike any of them, except for the obvious CDi games. I think the only way in which the writing of the games has gotten worse over time is that it's too plot focused, which gets very repetitive to anyone whose actually played a Zelda game before. Probably the best parts of MM and OoT were the attention to detail when it came to world building. Not that they ever felt like real places but I was at least always curious about them, which probably made plot gating a little less annoying when there were cool places to visit populated by interesting characters. Despite all it's flaws SS felt like they were at least trying to create a detailed world, even if it was way too constrained and handholdy, I can't remember a single character name from TP but I'll likely never forget Groose. Now, I'm not holding Zelda up as some kind of paragon of storytelling, it really isn't. However I'm not sure I could play a new Zelda game if they didn't even bother to try and just pushed out a completely non-linear dungeon fest. There's plenty of other games that do it better than Zelda ever has. ALBW was a breath of fresh air because it got rid of everything that got in the way of simply playing the game, whilst still feeling like an interesting overworld. Obviously all lifted from LttP but it could have been done a lot worse than it was. Going forward with the series they need to stay on the same track with general game design but focus on crafting a detailed world again. They can reuse the same drat plot as I always expect Ganon even when there is no Ganon, it's already at that point, so the least they can do is make the world he's trying to take over more seem like it's worth it. Anyway this could go on a while so I'm cutting it short here. All-in-all ALBW is a good return to form but something really needs to be done to make new Zelda games feel NEW again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 04:26
|
|
|
greatn posted:Like online co-op or something? Has anyone ever made an online co-op game before? I only own Nintendo consoles so I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 07:53
|
|
|
I don't really understand most of the hate piled on Twilight Princess, but it might be a "loving a Link Betweeen Worlds when you haven't played A Link to the Past" type situation—I missed out on the N64 Zeldas, and when I finally tried to go back and play them, it was after I'd played Wind Waker, and they just seemed too unbearably clunky to deal with. Twilight Princess has a really slow beginning that leads up to a monkey butt-centric first dungeon, but the minor annoyances are balanced out by it feeling epic in a way other Zeldas don't. I love everything about the Twilight Realm—the dissonant music, the unearthly enemy design, the heavy use of bloom to create a garish hellscape right around the time bloom was becoming an obnoxious cliche in games. I never got to finish the game the first time around (played it on a housemate's Wii, and I neglected to get my save file from him), but replaying it now nearly eight years later I'm still finding myself wowed. AnarkiJ posted:Anyway this could go on a while so I'm cutting it short here. All-in-all ALBW is a good return to form but something really needs to be done to make new Zelda games feel NEW again. ALBW just made me angry. It's not the worst Zelda I've played (which is probably Adventure or Link, as much as I like to defend it, or Oracle of Ages), but it's the first Zelda I wish I hadn't even bothered playing. They should have just built on the core gameplay of A Link to the Past to create a truly new Zelda instead of the half-baked mess A Link Between Worlds was. Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Feb 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 08:02
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Oh, yeah, I started that already. Optional being a very key word. I can do it when I want, if I want. Unlike Skyward Sword, which just kept throwing required collection quests in your face. In the middle of adventuring, I don't want everything to stop dead and look under every rock for poo poo. I want to keep going and discovering. Hiding things that will help me is awesome. Heart containers behind bombable walls you can't discover without bombing tons of walls is awesome. Stopping me from continuing and forcing me to collect baubles is decidedly not awesome. MaiMais seemed like a happy medium between a thing I loved and a thing I hate, but that still leaves me half-hating something. I was expecting to be borked by this kind of poo poo, though, so I found them to be far better than what I thought would happen. By the end, I was disappointed at how easy they were to find. I only had to use a guide to find one, and it was because it never occurred to me that it would be within a mini-game's restricted area.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 08:46
|
|
|
Sire Oblivion posted:How an someone be so wrong? What's it like haven't a horrible opinion? I wouldn't know, speak for yourself  No, seriously - like many others have posted, ALBW just isn't a very good-looking game. HOWEVER, it run VERY smoothly, it has very simple and clear designs, and it works well with the fast pace. In short, it's not great to look at, but it works in motion. This is one of the first Zeldas that actually went that route: most Zeldas are visually very appealing, but rather slow and clunky. TWW, for instance, could make a loving painting out of every screenshot, but it doesn't deal well with high speed battles and tends to overload the screen. Now this is great and all - only, obviously, I'd like some awesome graphics too, not just ultra-smooth transformed sprites from an ugly-rear end old game. Take the Minish Cap screenshots, for example. OoT was a rather ugly game (OH YES, don't even deny it!), and MM was only saved by how weird it was; TWW was the first genuinely beautiful Zelda, and Minish Cap perfectly captured that style and adapted it for 2D (just look at the sky manta rays and tell me it's not the most goddamn beautiful 2D Zelda out there). I want something stylish like that! Better yet: give me ALBW, but with TWW style. The DS games made the TWW style look horrible, true, but maybe it'll be different with smoother models and 3DS hardware. I'd like to see that. Rollersnake posted:I don't really understand most of the hate piled on Twilight Princess, but it might be a "loving a Link Betweeen Worlds when you haven't played A Link to the Past" type situation—I missed out on the N64 Zeldas, and when I finally tried to go back and play them, it was after I'd played Wind Waker, and they just seemed too unbearably clunky to deal with. I don't think that's the case. In fact, having played ALTTP made me dislike parts of ALBW even more, simply because I recognized how lazily recycled they were! I maintain that blatantly appealing to nostalgia the way Nintendo is doing it in ALBW only hurt the game, in the end, and that more originality is the way to go. Again, it's amazing that ALBW is still as great as it is, DESPITE this serious flaw. Might be because it's more aesthetics flaw than actual mechanics problem. As for Twilight Princess: it's plain and simply an unfinished game, that's my main reason for disliking it. Ganon is tacked on, the overworld is desolate, empty & boring, after the incredibly charming NPCs of TWW you barely get any interaction, the character designs are horrendously ugly, elements like horse riding are aped from OoT and never really utilized beyond that one bridge duell, and the Zelda formula - while perfectly executed - shows that it is in desperate need of a renewal. There is not a single element in the game unusual for a Zelda - it's all tried and true stuff we've seen before. Doesn't change that some of the dungeons are a nigh-perfect execution of the formula (Snowpeak Ruins, probably the best 3D dungeon of the entire series! YES!), though. In short: the game lacks charm. It looks and plays utterly forgettable, because it is a) unfinished & empty, b) ugly, c) unwilling to change. I didn't even mind the dark world parts, since it actually looked interesting and I liked to explore to find bugs; also, I liked to think that this was a preview of a vivid overworld to come. Not only did that overworld never appear - it remained as dead as ever -, it also culminated in the WORST dungeon of all 3D Zeldas, the Twilight Temple. The entire game seems like a complete mess, made by developers cluelessly throwing classic Zelda elements at the wall, never really understanding what they're doing. It is obvious the dungeons were designed completely separately from the rest of the game, for instance. Also explains why they're the best part (with the exception of nearly all bosses, which are insultingly easy and ugly even for Zelda standards). I'd love to see the ALBW formula in a 3D Zelda some day - ideally, coupled with TWW aesthetics. Just imagine how awesome the exploration could be in a fully realized 3D world! You could get a taste of the freedom TWW offered, only much less tedious this time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 09:53
|
|
|
Can you even make a 3D Zelda with a lot of exploration and open-ended gameplay? The closest thing we have is Majora's Mask, and that just resued assets from OoT. Hearing about all the stuff cut out of Wind Waker just makes me think that making a 3D Zelda is such a time-consuming task that it's a challenge to get the bare essentials down unless you're just reusing everything, and that the quality of LBW was largely due to the fact that it was the first 2D Zelda made primarily by the Zelda team since Link's Awakening. In retrospect, it kind of sucks that the Zelda team has been so reactionary to criticism from what's probably a vocal minority. People wanted more OoT after Wind Waker, so we got a new OoT, and Nintendo scrapped all the work that went into Wind Waker's unique mechanics and items instead of refining them like we got with Majora's Mask.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 10:11
|
|
|
Last Celebration posted:Can you even make a 3D Zelda with a lot of exploration and open-ended gameplay? The closest thing we have is Majora's Mask, and that just resued assets from OoT. Hearing about all the stuff cut out of Wind Waker just makes me think that making a 3D Zelda is such a time-consuming task that it's a challenge to get the bare essentials down unless you're just reusing everything, and that the quality of LBW was largely due to the fact that it was the first 2D Zelda made primarily by the Zelda team since Link's Awakening. Seriously? If a company can produce a game like Demon's Souls, without the giant budget of a 3D Zelda, and it's so well-designed that it becomes a huge hit even though it still has some glaring flaws - then Nintendo can produce a proper loving 3D ALBW. I don't care if they have to simplify the graphics or whatever. If it plays even remotely the same, the quality of the game will speak for itself. Last Celebration posted:In retrospect, it kind of sucks that the Zelda team has been so reactionary to criticism from what's probably a vocal minority. People wanted more OoT after Wind Waker, so we got a new OoT, and Nintendo scrapped all the work that went into Wind Waker's unique mechanics and items instead of refining them like we got with Majora's Mask. Turns out especially vocal Zelda fans are loving morons who wouldn't recognize quality if it pierced their eyeballs. And, unsurprisingly, Nintendo's management seems to be full of morons, too. It's a miracle that company, who blundered its way to weird Zelda / marketing vehicle hybrids like TP or Skyward Sword, actually managed to put out ALBW. It's so much unlike anything Nintendo produced before (even though it still has that pathetic worhsip of older Zeldas), it's stunning. Maybe the developers finally recognized that the Zelda series, even back in its glory days, was never perfect and should be further refined rather than imitated.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 10:40
|
|
|
LividLiquid posted:Heart containers behind bombable walls you can't discover without bombing tons of walls is awesome. I will literally never, ever understand this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 10:46
|
|
|
Soylent Heliotrope posted:Coincidentally, I'm also playing through Skyward Sword for the first time right now. I'm really having fun with this game and I'm not seeing why it gets poo poo on so much in this thread. The art style is charming. Exploring is fun because Link is so mobile and there are bugs to catch and all kinds of loot everywhere. There are a bunch of fun Wind Waker-y characters- most notably Ghirahim and Groose, but also random people around Skyloft. I'm not very far in, though- just in front of the second dungeon after assembling the key. Maybe it gets awful later. Even the biggest haters cut it slack for the NPCs and the style, AFAIR (the Mogma are one of my favourite game races ever), it just has some really ghastly game path design choices.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 11:09
|
|
|
Runcible Cat posted:You haven't got to the never-ending fetch-quests back-and-forthing yet, and Fi probably hasn't got as tedious as she will. Come back somewhere around the third flame and let us know whether you're still so enthusiastic.... Reading this, I'm starting to suspect part of the issue is when Nintendo makes it so that you must solve a puzzle first in order to continue the journey, rather than have the puzzle be part of the journey. Contrast the first several islands of Wind Waker against the later ones. When you turn up at Dragonroost, once you find out what's wrong, you can head straight towards the dungeon, with one obstacle that getting through is the pre-dungeon puzzle, so it still feels like you're making progress and aren't slowing down so much. Contrast arriving at one of the sage islands, and realising you need an item for that. Then you find where said item is, but in order to reach them, you need special elemental arrows. And to get them, you need to get a new tune for the windwaker. Or, of course, everything you have to do for the triforce pieces, including the pirate ship debacle.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 11:49
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:I think the difference in artwork between DQ3 and ALTTP is (at least partially) a stylistic choice. I agree and personally think the more minimal, less detailed tileset of ALTTP looks much better. But I'm also the type that loves the visual style of Wind Waker, so yeah... I just beat ALBW. I actually had fun collecting all the baby octopus things. I'm really glad there were markers in each region though, that would have been significantly less fun to do otherwise. Also, I finished missing two hearts and one item, I'm not sure if I should look up what I missed or leave it for another play-through in the future.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 11:51
|
|
|
Xik posted:I agree and personally think the more minimal, less detailed tileset of ALTTP looks much better. But I'm also the type that loves the visual style of Wind Waker, so yeah... The item might've been one of the consumables that aren't important.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 11:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 14:36 |
|
|
Heavy Lobster posted:I will literally never, ever understand this. To be fair to Link Between World, its bombable non-crack walls usually have a pretty obvious tell, like rocks or shrubs outside the wall.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2014 12:06
|
|