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So that's great and all, but let's keep our crack detective skills in the realm of actual evidence, please.
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Feb 11, 2014 02:13
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orenronen posted:You're slacking in your job, people. I shouldn't learn from a heart-broken tumblr post that I made a mistake in the last post and had Nagito call Hinata '-san' instead of '-kun'. I thought you didn't want to be told about any typos since....some update in DR1 though?
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Feb 11, 2014 02:19
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Volt Catfish posted:I thought you didn't want to be told about any typos since....some update in DR1 though? He still wants typos pointed out, but via PM instead of posted in the thread.
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Feb 11, 2014 02:22
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alcharagia posted:So that's great and all, but let's keep our crack detective skills in the realm of actual evidence, please. Yeah I mean that's an interesting analysis but it's less evidence and more coincidence. I highly doubt the team put together the entire storyline and then said 'let us arrange the students so it's predictable.'
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Feb 11, 2014 03:00
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I just want Nidai to survive, is that too much to ask?
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Feb 11, 2014 05:44
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So if the culprit really did do the "video filmed in the hospital" trick... Wasn't it tricky to make the two communicators in the first place? It would immediately implicate Souda -- the remains of the smashed communicator are in the music club when Hinata first goes in. Only Souda could have orchestrated that, and hidden a third camera someplace inside the hospital room to communicate with the other. It would explain the bag over the victim's head, as well as the reason the communicator in the music room was destroyed -- it can only communicate with one other device. But Occam's Razor: I'm still puzzled as to why it would be so complex. What is the killer trying to misdirect from? Why bother having the setup in the hospital when A) it could be discovered, and B) whoever the killer was needed to be in the club just after Hinata left, so why not just film the drat thing in the music hall? What I haven't seen mentioned is the mirror found in the back of the music hall. The blood on the stepladder wasn't visible in the recording because it wasn't the left side that was being shown -- it was the right side. The mirror would allow the killer, for whatever crazy reason, to flip left and right in what Hinata saw. I still cannot figure out how Mikan and Kuzuryuu aren't alibis for each other. Weren't they looking for Ibuki at the time when the ringleader was uncovering Saionji? And Kuzuryuu saw Mikan leaving the hospital. Mikan would've had to reveal Saionji, then run back to the hospital to beat Kuzuryuu there, which seems really unlikely. I feel like I'm missing something.
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Feb 11, 2014 08:14
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iw posted:So if the culprit really did do the "video filmed in the hospital" trick... Wasn't it tricky to make the two communicators in the first place? It would immediately implicate Souda -- the remains of the smashed communicator are in the music club when Hinata first goes in. Only Souda could have orchestrated that, and hidden a third camera someplace inside the hospital room to communicate with the other. It would explain the bag over the victim's head, as well as the reason the communicator in the music room was destroyed -- it can only communicate with one other device. Nah it's a pretty good alibi and it was the reason I don't suspect her. I expect the testimony to be used to nail someone else. Also for unknown reasons I am suddenly really sad about Saionji and Ibuki's deaths. More so Ibuki who along with me really liking her the fact that she was strangled to death is just horrible. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 08:38
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iw posted:I still cannot figure out how Mikan and Kuzuryuu aren't alibis for each other. Weren't they looking for Ibuki at the time when the ringleader was uncovering Saionji? And Kuzuryuu saw Mikan leaving the hospital. Mikan would've had to reveal Saionji, then run back to the hospital to beat Kuzuryuu there, which seems really unlikely. I feel like I'm missing something. They were not looking together. They split up. They specifically came from opposite directions.
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Feb 11, 2014 08:48
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ImpAtom posted:They were not looking together. They split up. They specifically came from opposite directions. But they started together at the hospital.
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Feb 11, 2014 09:23
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I’ve been flipping back and forth between the communicator screenshot of the hanging and pictures of the stage in the music club as it is now. I think the textures/model for the floor and the curtain are the same, but that could just be re‐use of assets by the developers.   Whatever is going on, I don’t think it’s mirror trickery. If a mirror were involved the flooring and curtains wouldn’t match. Yeah, it’s a minor detail, but the fake pillar showed up so I expect mirroring would as well. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 09:25
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I want to talk more about that bag. Why is it there? If the culprit really did manage to convince/order Ibuki to hang herself, then what's the purpose of the Monomi bag? If the culprit had been capable of convincing her to off herself, then just having her do that on video, sans bag, would be far more effective at diverting attention from the true culprit. Regardless of whether the footage is live or staged (I think staged, especially now that we know both stepladders are missing), there must be a reason for the bag. So far, Ibuki hasn't shown any tendency to just randomly wear bags on her head, so the culprit probably arranged it for some purpose - most likely they needed to obscure the face of the person in the footage. The most likely reason has already been stated... it's probably not Ibuki in the footage at all. It could be the culprit or an associate. The footage cutting off early supports this hypothesis. If the culprit really was recording Ibuki hanging herself, they could've simply let the camera record the deed and eliminate all doubt as to the cause of death. But the culprit wanted people to think the person in the footage is Ibuki, yet they clearly couldn't arrange for her to actually hang herself. Two possibilities: Either Ibuki simply wasn't receptive to orders that were obviously suicidal, or she was already dead/unconscious by the time the footage was recorded. We don't really have any reason to suspect the latter at the moment, so let's just assume the former. But it is possible the culprit was able to order Ibuki to manage the recording. They could've ordered Ibuki to give her hospital gown to the culprit, operate the camera while the culprit staged the hanging, and blow out the candle at the predetermined time. From there on it's just a matter of actually killing her, possibly by ordering her to put her neck in the noose (a non-suicidal order by itself), then raising the lighting rig. There are unsolved matters, though, and a lot of them come back to the order of deaths and methods of killing. The blood on the ladder and on Ibuki's slippers. We can only assume the blood belongs to Saionji, as no one else has bled copious amounts lately, which means Ibuki was alive when Saionji died. (Alternately, someone else was wearing the slippers at the time, but then the culprit would probably not have made Ibuki wear them, especially not post-mortem.) And then there's the case of the mis-tied obi... Crazy hypothesis time: Saionji catches wind of Ibuki's suggestive state and plans to kill her by making it appear as if she'd committed suicide. She sneaks out of her room, switches her robe for Ibuki's gown, and they record the footage. At this point they are interrupted by the true culprit, who cuts Saionji's throat and appropriates the plan. They move Saionji's corpse to the Titty Typhoon and hide it in the fake pillar, then the culprit kills Ibuki via the lighting rig, obscuring the true order of the killings. It explains why the obi is backwards (Saionji had recently been wearing something else - the hospital gown) and why the person in the footage appears to be so short, but there are still too many loose ends. Why was there a need to obscure the order of the deaths in the first place? When did this happen? Why is there a patch of badly wiped-up blood on the stage, and why is there blood on the stepladder, if Saionji died elsewhere? How did Saionji know about Ibuki's suggestibility, and how did she sneak out? Ibuki's foreshadowed ability to pick locks is another concern, and cause for alternate speculation. What if the culprit used her as a means to get to Saionji? If the culprit knew about Ibuki's lockbreaking shenanigans, he or she could've ordered her to fetch Saionji, kill her, then stage the hanging to clear up any loose ends. But the blood means Saionji's murder would have to have happened on the stage, and I doubt Saionji would go quietly with Ibuki, given her paranoia regarding despair syndrome. If the culprit was capable of subduing Saionji, there would have been no reason to leave such a messy trail. He or she could've just slit her throat somewhere convenient and moved the body postmortem. Rather, the badly wiped blood implies Saionji died suddenly and impulsively.
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Feb 11, 2014 10:27
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iw posted:But Occam's Razor: I'm still puzzled as to why it would be so complex. What is the killer trying to misdirect from? Why bother having the setup in the hospital when A) it could be discovered, and B) whoever the killer was needed to be in the club just after Hinata left, so why not just film the drat thing in the music hall? Why even bother filming in the first place? The killer would not have gone to such an extent if they did not think they weren't going to get some concrete benefit out of the misdirect. Our attention is being focussed on the Dance Hall and the hanging; what are we missing/being led away from seeing? This case is coming down to timing - order of death, time of death, locations and movements of people - it's all been messed with and is murky. So far, we know that the killer wants us to think that they killed both Mioda and Saionji this morning and that they were present in the dance hall the whole time from the video until the discovery of the bodies - how much time has our killer actually spent in the dance hall this morning and what were they up to when they weren't there? Saionji's role in this case is a mystery to me; first she shuts herself away from Despair Fever (and everyone else, losing any chance of an alibi), but then decides to go to the hospital and lure Mioda away? Even if she was lying about the aversion to Despair Fever, picking Mioda seems risky, especially with Mikan on duty essentially 24/7 to hear unusual voices and movement. Why not kill one of the other students at the motel? Heck, Hinata and Kuzuryuu would be better targets, being alone in the hotel - fewer people around than even at the hospital, and Kuzuryuu is injured to boot. And why would she pick the dance hall to commit the murder? I could see it as a venue if she'd killed one of the motel students, but it would make more sense to kill Mioda at the hospital and then gone back to the motel; after all, she'd never want to go even near the hospital with those with Despair fever quarantined there - it would be a viable defence. I'm not convinced she murdered Mioda. But if she is just another victim, how did she end up in the Dance Hall in the first place?
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Feb 11, 2014 10:55
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This whole scheme required a lot of planning and effort. Especially the way Saionji's body was hidden. I don't get the impression that the true killer walked in on Saionji's evil scheme, killed Saionji in a panic, and then made this elaborate coverup. Why not just lower the room's temperature, and leave the pillar up so that her body won't be found for a while, making Saionji the primary suspect? (The best answer, I suppose is that the fake pillar wouldn't stand up to people investigating the room.) Saionji's throat was cut and she has no defensive wounds. That's not so easy to do face-to-face, especially if Saionji was caught in the middle of planning murder, and would be on the defensive. That is the kind of wound you'd get if you attacked her from behind, as if Saionji felt safe with her killer and didn't fear turning her back on her killer. iw posted:So if the culprit really did do the "video filmed in the hospital" trick... Wasn't it tricky to make the two communicators in the first place? It would immediately implicate Souda -- the remains of the smashed communicator are in the music club when Hinata first goes in. Only Souda could have orchestrated that, and hidden a third camera someplace inside the hospital room to communicate with the other. It would explain the bag over the victim's head, as well as the reason the communicator in the music room was destroyed -- it can only communicate with one other device. The theory is that Mikan took the camera and smashed the receiver device - because the pile of smashed equipment grew between Hinata leaving the club and returning. She had the camera upstairs. I don't know how, without being able to see what Hinata was doing, or know if he was even watching at all (and with a bag over her head), that she could manage to perfectly time her ladder ascent and the candle going out. quote:But Occam's Razor: I'm still puzzled as to why it would be so complex. What is the killer trying to misdirect from? Why bother having the setup in the hospital when A) it could be discovered, and B) whoever the killer was needed to be in the club just after Hinata left, so why not just film the drat thing in the music hall? If it was Mikan, that gives her the alibi of being seen in the hospital. quote:What I haven't seen mentioned is the mirror found in the back of the music hall. The blood on the stepladder wasn't visible in the recording because it wasn't the left side that was being shown -- it was the right side. The mirror would allow the killer, for whatever crazy reason, to flip left and right in what Hinata saw. Maybe, but if the scene was filmed elsewhere, it doesn't seem to have been used, and as of right now, I can't see a point of flipping the scene. quote:I still cannot figure out how Mikan and Kuzuryuu aren't alibis for each other. Weren't they looking for Ibuki at the time when the ringleader was uncovering Saionji? And Kuzuryuu saw Mikan leaving the hospital. Mikan would've had to reveal Saionji, then run back to the hospital to beat Kuzuryuu there, which seems really unlikely. I feel like I'm missing something. Theoretically, Mikan and Hinata part, she goes upstairs and instead of going to check on the patients, she films the scene for Hinata's benefit, then rushes downstairs. She meets Kuzuryuu and gives her pre-planned excuse that Ibuki is gone from her room, let's split up to cover more ground. I'll head towards the club, you go the other way. I agree that the timing is really tight, and it would have been a big gamble. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 14:07
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:This whole scheme required a lot of planning and effort. Especially the way Saionji's body was hidden. I don't get the impression that the true killer walked in on Saionji's evil scheme, killed Saionji in a panic, and then made this elaborate coverup. Why not just lower the room's temperature, and leave the pillar up so that her body won't be found for a while, making Saionji the primary suspect? (The best answer, I suppose is that the fake pillar wouldn't stand up to people investigating the room.) I'm pretty sure if someone was poking around the room, there's an incredibly good chance they'd find the pillar wasn't really a pillar by complete accident and the game would be up. Tripping onto it, tapping it, or even a long glance at the two pillars, just too many possible ways that someone would notice it after a while. The thing about Saionji feeling safe around her killer is actually something that right now isn't just unlikely, but completely impossible. She was absolutely paranoid that everyone was infected with Despair Fever except her (possibly because she was infected? Who knows at this point) but was apparently (by way of the key on her person) sneaking around so as to avoid everyone. I think it far more likely she was preoccupied with something at the time, which I would say was likely tying her obi. Her killer snuck up behind her while she was making the complex little bow and slit her throat right before she finished.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:00
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:This whole scheme required a lot of planning and effort. Especially the way Saionji's body was hidden. I don't get the impression that the true killer walked in on Saionji's evil scheme, killed Saionji in a panic, and then made this elaborate coverup. Why not just lower the room's temperature, and leave the pillar up so that her body won't be found for a while, making Saionji the primary suspect? (The best answer, I suppose is that the fake pillar wouldn't stand up to people investigating the room.) Okay, while I like your coverage of the rest of the threads of this case, this bothers me. Because while you don't discount it outright, Saionji planning to murder someone by herself is still the only thing that makes sense for her to have been doing. She hates everybody, wants the Despair Fever Victims to kill themselves, and barricaded herself in a motel room so nobody could get to her. Playing Monobear's Murder Game is the only way off the island to reasoning like hers at this point. She still has her room key, so nobody broke in and grabbed her. There is hastily scrubbed blood on the floor of the Titty Typhoon, near the pillar where her corpse is tied up, and blood on Ibuki's sandals. That kinda implies at least someone got in a lucky shot and/or and killed Saionji in a single blow she didn't expect. This doesn't have to be like the Leon/Sayaka murder from DR1 where both kids put up a hell of a fight. Saionji is the weakest of the students (not counting invalids) and the smallest. This can all imply that whoever killed her was someone she didn't think of as a threat, who then got the drop on her, and killed her here in the music club near the pillar. Her Kimono doesn't have much/any blood on it, but we already have a clue that she was dressed in it after dying because of her obi. Whatever she was wearing before hand is probably drenched in blood before the killer put tape over her wound and hastily cleaned up whatever she bled out onto the stage. Who would Saionji not see as a threat? Well, Ibuki's involved in this some how, and at the time she was pliant as rubber, but this also makes it hard for her to have the willpower to suddenly kill the person giving her orders before committing suicide for real. The only other person Saionji wouldn't see as much of a threat is Mikan. Given how she treats Mikan, constantly calling her names and belittling her into a sobbing wreck, I imagine it would have been a shock for Saionji that the nurse responds not with apologies but a shiv through the throat if she came upon Saionji's murder plans...
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Feb 11, 2014 16:08
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There's another thing about the fake pillar that really bothers me: what's the purpose of that whole song and dance? What was the culprit trying to hide when they came up with that? Building the pillar must have taken quite some time and effort, as it's pretty huge, so it's not likely to be something the culprit did on a whim. Nor is it something someone would manage to throw together in a panic. Faking the pillar must have been planned, with a very specific purpose in mind. It's not simply to keep Saionji from being discovered, since the pillar stays up a grand total of about ten minutes after Ibuki is discovered. Speaking of which, what happened to the pillar? A theory seems to be that the glue somehow melted or something, but surely that would leave a mess of paper lying around near the stage. Again, that thing is pretty big. Someone must have been in there not just to tear down the pillar, but dispose of the parts, after Ibuki's corpse was first discovered. This just raises further questions about the purpose of the pillar, since whoever tore it down is likely the culprit - in other words, not only did the killer plan to hide Saionji behind the pillar, he or she planned for her to be discovered ten minutes later, for... what purpose? Just to confuse the order of the killings? Do we even have any idea why the order of killings is important? The killer seems pretty drat intent on keeping that detail secret. Given the deliberate, planned execution of this entire event, what did the culprit try to obscure by doing all this?
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Feb 11, 2014 16:24
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From the last update, I believe this is what the "pillar" was, so the culprit took it down and threw it back here, where they first found it. It has the stickers from the chair next to it on it, so that it looks like the other pillar.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:32
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Do we even have any idea why the order of killings is important? The killer seems pretty drat intent on keeping that detail secret. Given the deliberate, planned execution of this entire event, what did the culprit try to obscure by doing all this? We'll find out when we watch the movie, I bet.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:35
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Well it looks like the game just got confirmed to be translated by accident. Good News, I suppose.  http://www.japanator.com/danganronpa-2-accidentally-confirmed-for-localisation--31517.phtml
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Feb 11, 2014 17:45
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BlueJoneleth posted:Well it looks like the game just got confirmed to be translated by accident. Whoops. "What do you mean, 'sequel'?" 
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Feb 11, 2014 19:34
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I'm very surprised they were dedicated to Dangan Ronpa and the "sales" of the first game that they've already begun work on the second. Or maybe the preorder numbers were enough to please them??? I don't know it's weird to actually be working on both assuming the first game bombed. edit: Pending an apparently close to upcoming official announcement, what does this mean for the rest of the let's play?
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Feb 11, 2014 19:57
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NISA's announcing their new 2014 localizations at a press event tomorrow, so maybe this was just an early slip of the tongue.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:58
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BlueJoneleth posted:Well it looks like the game just got confirmed to be translated by accident. thats adorable I need a friend with a vita now
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Feb 11, 2014 19:59
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The limited edition print of DR1 sold out in a few days, so they seemed to be happy with their sales numbers.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:01
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Volt Catfish posted:edit: Pending an apparently close to upcoming official announcement, what does this mean for the rest of the let's play? We're talking about it. I'm still not sure what the right thing to do here is, or if there's even a point in a fan translation when there's an official one around. In any case, even assuming we're getting an announcement tomorrow, I think I'd still at least get through the rest of chapter 3 because I don't want to just stop it midway through. That gives us a little more time to think about the future of the LP. Who knows? Maybe I'll actually get to the rest of Zero this time.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:07
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orenronen posted:We're talking about it. I'm still not sure what the right thing to do here is, or if there's even a point in a fan translation when there's an official one around. For what it's worth, I doubt they'll tell you to stop. When I picked up my pre-order of DR a few hours ago, the manager of the store told me that he'd already sold out of the non-reserved copies he had. So at the very least, the LP of the first game (and that other finished fan translation patch, and the anime, as well as the endless supply of spoilers and synopses on other sites) doesn't seem to have had a negative impact on sales, though it's probably a bit early to say that for certain. Having come this far, the desperate masses will likely turn to other sources to finish out the game rather than wait patiently for the official release. Chances are pretty high NISA's already aware of this LP, as well as the previous one, so hell, you might take the initiative and ask them their feelings on the matter first. Though if they didn't make you take down the first one, I doubt they care much about the second one either. As long as places like tumblr exist, it's not like they can contain it anyway. Still, do whatever you feel best. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 21:20
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I wonder what going to the movies with Komaeda will be like.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:21
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Suspicious Dish posted:The limited edition print of DR1 sold out in a few days, so they seemed to be happy with their sales numbers. It's kind of bizarre, because Kyle Hebert isn't exactly a small-time VA like all the voices in DR1. And if he accidentally thought he was in the game that came out just the other day, then that would mean he's already recorded his dialogue. So that would mean that while localizing DR1, NIS was also localizing DR2, but with at least one well-known VA (and really, I think it's safe to assume that he isn't an anomaly). That's kind of strange.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:22
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Edit: Sorry for the double post.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:22
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I... I might stop reading this thread now, I'm not sure honestly.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:23
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orenronen posted:We're talking about it. I'm still not sure what the right thing to do here is, or if there's even a point in a fan translation when there's an official one around. Apologies if you've already answered this, but were you ever contacted by any publishers about your translation? I'm quite sure it's your LP that make DR1 officially come overseas years after it's been out in Japan.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:25
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Suspicious Dish posted:Apologies if you've already answered this, but were you ever contacted by any publishers about your translation? I'm quite sure it's your LP that make DR1 officially come overseas years after it's been out in Japan. I think the guys at NIS said they didn't want to contact any of the fan translators so as not to be influenced by other translations, or something like that.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:26
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At any rate, it's going to be at least a few months before SDR2 gets officially announced instead of just one VA who slipped up. You'd probably be halfway through or at the end of, say, Chapter 4 before we hear any real news either way.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:29
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orenronen posted:We're talking about it. I'm still not sure what the right thing to do here is, or if there's even a point in a fan translation when there's an official one around. For what it's worth, I honestly think you should keep on with it. Your insights to the translation and localization really make the game relatable and I'm not sure how well an official translation would stand up against it. Also, I have no way of playing SDR2 if it comes out over here, so I'd sadly probably wind up spoiled for everything without ever getting to see it in this format if you stopped the LP. Selfish reasoning, but I know there are plenty of others like me who would still love you see this thing through.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:15
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Let's be honest here - if orenroren doesn't finish this LP, someone else will do one if/when an official translation is released anyway. I'd like to see oren continue just because this is a good translation, it's nice seeing some of the insights, and I like seeing reactions to the plot twists, but it's not like SDR2 would be closed off forever if he stopped.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:25
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Half the reason I read this LP is for your notes, Oren. I wouldn't want to see you end it.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:15
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Knicknevin posted:Chances are pretty high NISA's already aware of this LP, as well as the previous one I can confirm this to actually be the case, since I was actually talking to a member of their PR team and referenced the LP in passing a few times, both for the first and second game, before they announced they were working on it. I doubt I'm the only person, and I doubt there will be any issues with the LP too. The fan translation wouldn't be redundant either. Hell, there may be more interesting subjects to touch on with a more official version of the localization out there, and there's the whole practice angle too.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:07
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Count me as another person who really enjoys the cultural notes (and the lp in general). For what it's worth, I'd like to see this continue.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:13
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For what it's worth I appreciate the LP because it's helping me with my Japanese. Translating is hard. Austrian mook posted:I... I might stop reading this thread now, I'm not sure honestly. I would suggest not if you intend on playing it. It's one of those games that's much better the second time when you can understand the reasons for things, notice clues that are obvious in hindsight but impossibly hard to notice the first time, etc.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:20
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I'm more interested in seeing the translation this team comes up with than the official one, personally.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:44
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