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HiHo ChiRho posted:I don't want to let this languish as we only have a few hours left: Based on RL experience with such things the simpler the better. I have a feeling that FoxTerrier might be our Goon for this. I still have some background concern that zapping ourself, though likely the way to go, violates Do Not Destroy. Not doing so probably violates Don't Be a drat Fool. I want to pray to El for guidance.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:19
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Welp, I failed that snipe. More survey stuff at the bottom of the last page.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:20
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Powerful factions want to literally neuter us because we are a threat to them, and most people are a-ok with that 
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Feb 12, 2014 03:21
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Sogol posted:Based on RL experience with such things the simpler the better. I have a feeling that FoxTerrier might be our Goon for this. Even complicating that is that not doing so leads to more people that could violate Do Not Destroy, that based on experience is not a matter of if but when. A lovely situation all around. I'm leaning towards zapping because if we are meant to have children, El will find a way nonetheless. I mean, we came about, right? e: Numeron posted:Powerful factions want to literally neuter us because we are a threat to them, and most people are a-ok with that It's pretty much guaranteed that they are going to do it no matter what, with us losing loved ones in the process. This won't affect our growth into Labaras 2.0 or shorten our definite lengthy life, just that we can't breed WMD's. It seems like one (us) is enough as it is. HiHo ChiRho fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 03:23
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Sogol posted:Azz's defense is great. Everyone thanks he is crazy. He only claims things that others are not likely to want and then only very lightly. He cant be perceived by his family as a real threat and is valuing freedom over power and other such things. Then he entertains himself. Life with him would probably eventually turn into some madcap mayhem. He could probably be enrolled in pranking the goat haters and such. I like how he keeps saying "probably." Considering, y'know, both he, us, and the Melachim can bend/alter probability.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:28
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HiHo ChiRho posted:It's pretty much guaranteed that they are going to do it no matter what, with us losing loved ones in the process. This won't affect our growth into Labaras 2.0 or shorten our definite lengthy life, just that we can't breed WMD's. It seems like one (us) is enough as it is. Enough for now sure cause we're still alive. If we get neutered then all they have to do is wait it out, and the crisis is over. We need to make whatever we do here in this world everlasting. Too bad for them... A Storm is Coming 
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Feb 12, 2014 03:34
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Numeron posted:Powerful factions want to literally neuter us because we are a threat to them, and most people are a-ok with that For me, not so much that I am ok with it. More i am not sure what else to do. Azz says they will take a long time to talk (a good sign) and then they will come for us. We are unlikely to be ready. If we try to create an alliance we are unlikely to like our allies. We don't get zapped and it puts those we love at risk from the Powers that Be (who are apparently goat hating fascist prudes). We do get zapped and it causes emotional pain for Naomi and others. We don't get zapped and it causes heartbreak. We get zapped and we probably never learn some important lessons that might prevent us from cracking the world. We don't get zapped and we probably do some limited world cracking to protect people we love before we get smote to flinders. It sucks either way. (And Dad, whoever he is, is likely in prison possibly for having got up to some very bad poo poo. They are worried we will be another Dad. They are worried we exist as part of some bad Dad plan.) We could have gone into exile or hiding in Ishamal's model or with Azz and that might have been cool because we would eventually escape. Getting zapped sucks, but also gives us the most time and resources to respond to a life zapping force running the planet, should we so choose. Granted we can't create a super army or our own progeny, but the Powers That Be were going to come down hard on that since it is their worst fear. Since getting zapped does not also gimp us I am going to go with that after some good hard prayer to El, or Dad or both. Maybe we will make contact, maybe not. If we make contact maybe that will be a good thing maybe not. I would even consider putting off the wedding and the zapping for a day to just pray our rear end off.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:36
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Diogines posted:Ishamal is quiet for a long moment and then says... "I serve El." Yeah, calling it now; Bareen was right, there is no El, just the concept of El, which is Good Enough for the sake of worship-based power.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:37
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Sogol posted:Based on RL experience with such things the simpler the better. I have a feeling that FoxTerrier might be our Goon for this. Eh, sure. I can take a stab at it, since you asked. How's this: Enki (Wedding Edition) posted:
How's that? Short. Sweet. Uncontroversial. And courtesy of Team  (which who am I kidding I'm totally a member of. I'm writing wedding vows for a CYOA hero for chrissakes. Nerd Alert x1000. Jesus.) Also, as a counterpoint to 'El Will Find a Way' goons...if El wanted us to be sterile, he would have made sure we were born that way, no? FoxTerrier fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 03:48
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Questions for Azz: Do you have any children? Can you tell what my motivations are when you watch me, or can you only judge me by my actions? Will you turn into the goatman from Asahel's dream for me? Do you like the name Billy? What do you look like when at rest? Is it that winged figure or a giant goat or something else entirely? I've been seeing invisible people hanging around when people die. Are those Melachim, Agents of the Temple of El, just gas from eating too much shwarma, or something else entirely? Is there actually anything worth seeing on Mt. Har? When I die, can I turn into a red or yellow shape rather than blue? Who made goblins? Is it okay to kill baby goblins? Is it okay to kill a restrained foe? What if it's a monster or demon? Do you think I should have kids? Do you think El would approve of me having kids? "Jorah" seemed to want me alive despite what a horrible monster I am or may become... yet he wants to kill my children if I have any? What made me different from what my children may become? When I was in the Goblin Cave, did I kill the Zviv with my own strength and abilities? Did I die in that cave, or just nearly die while charging up my own abilities? Did El or anything else aid me in that cave? If given the choice, would you go back and never create goats if you knew they might possibly somehow with no explanation harm the world? Voting "No" on hanging out at Azz' place for now. I'm kinda thinking that Ishamal's questions have been a test of sorts. He knew what we are, but he let us live long enough to grow into our Powers. He saw into our mind before and must have seen how unsavory our motivations can be, yet he let us grow into our Powers. On the day we return from using said Powers (assuming it wasn't El's intervention, a premise I sincerely doubt), he says we should choose death, exile, or imprisonment merely because of what we are. It is our nature to destroy and cause harm, but we somehow overcame such a fate. We are the goblin that didn't turn to petty thievery and murder; a cannibal Mighty Man who was raised with El as nothing more than a fairy tale, yet came of age as the exemplar of El's Will. We could choose to not have kids because, whelp, what's the big deal? The big deal is proving that mankind is worthy of Ascension without inevitably being corrupted by greed and avarice. Ish also said that the first thing he'd have us remember is Do Not Destroy. He's asking us to destroy not only our own legacy, but also that of Naomi; worse, he wants us to deceive her into believing that a bunch of changelings were the natural fruit of our passions rather than profane Doppelgangers created by the very power Ish wants us to suppress. He also asked us to remember Mercy, even if it fills us with doubt, anguish, and regret. Does he want us to choose mercy for mankind from a vengeful supernatural force, or mercy for our future line regardless of what trouble they may cause? Also, Azz' fairly strong reaction to someone threatening his goats was answer enough towards what the right choice is. I'm thinking El's vote would be for us to be fruitful and multiply.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:55
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Sogol posted:For me, not so much that I am ok with it. More i am not sure what else to do. We don't have to make a decision now. Refuse and put off the marriage so we have time to revisit this later.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:23
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HJ and don't hang out with Azz. If Ishamel truly thinks this is important, we should go along with him and visiting Azz's sanctum will be a distraction. We can come back later if we have to.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:32
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FoxTerrier posted:Eh, sure. I can take a stab at it, since you asked. I like it. Kinda hard to quote though.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:48
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Azzazel posted:"I keep VERY good track of my deals Creature, believe you-me! I've not broken any you" I meant the one we were about to have with sparrow boy Wouldn't you want to get one back at those goat fascists if there was a chance to? I saw your boy HornRam with his herd of goats a few months ago on my first trip with Aaron too, nice... Are there Mighty goats? Did you create any blooded ones? Does Xuriel mind that you're messing with her stars? What was that (describe the book we saw in the hidden temple) Can we vote for a time skip after the wedding?, whatever the outcome of this vote is. As in a next couple adventuring expeditions/Ish trainings/honeymoon period montage, or until something big happens during one of them- aka what we did for most of our Aaron patrols. alpaca diseases fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 05:37
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I want to ask Azzazel if El or the Grigori would like unkindly upon men taking the arts of Labaras and finding better ways to do them. Men, and them alone doing it, not those like ourselves or even the Mighty. If they put work and effort into cultivating the seed of knowledge he brought, and making it bloom into something even more grand. I'm asking because men like Lefkandi do this on occasion, for reasons of their own, and it works splendidly. Ishamal thought it clever. Yet Lefkandi's competitors, they were jealous of his success and proclaimed that what he did was not of Labaras. I also want to one day found an Academy City if this is cool. I think it'd work great with what we know of El. He likes work and effort put into things, and while work and effort surely go into the labor men do, none goes into taking what Labaras taught and making it even better. They simply do things as they have always done it seems, and that just seems like not a good thing. I think El would like it, and it'd have a massive impact on society, but not in a way that we do it, but rather normal men do.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:41
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Diogines posted:After a few hours you reach the goat head shaped rock at the rivers edge. You see a fourteen foot tall figure with two sets of wings dressed in a fantastical garment made of gold, silver, platinum, precious gems and other materials you do not recognize, surrounded by a flock of goats who seem to be swaying happily at a strange music. Azzazel appears to be pointing at the stars with his pointer fingers and going "Pew pew pew pew pew!"  Azzazel is the best. Maybe he will even answer some questions! I was a screaming lunatic, huh? What was I screaming? What did it look like/sound like from where you were? Is "Uncle Jorah" Damat? Did he really make sparrows? How's Mt. Har? Where IS your place, actually? So hey, what did you say quantum foam is again? What about muons or gluons? Are you mad? Do I scare you? Why or why not? Do you keep track of EVERY goat out here? Even, like, that one time we ran across that herd with Aaron? So, hey, um, if you know about the goat piss thing, uh, did you notice anything odd when we asked for your help back when Snarls was sick? What do you want out of life, Azz? You ask why I'd want to see "that goat-hating prude," but hey - he DID heal my arm that one time, didn't he? Shouldn't I at least say thanks? Next time you feel like getting into a fight in my dreamscape, would you mind asking my permission first? So did you get into trouble for that fight, anyways? OK, so you really like your goats. Are there any other things I should take especial care of so as not to piss off anyone with similar special interests? Hey, you got any idea what lies under Zepath? Do you want us to do anything in particular with Asahel other than not getting him into trouble for his entire life? Any other powers I should be aware of besides the Melachim? Wait, is it ONLY the Melachim who are concerned about me? Is this goat head rock yours? Who owns Zepath? Any idea who I claimed that goblin cave for? Aside from negative attention, any long-term negative effects from my stunt in the caves? So what the heck is a Xephanim anyways? Don't you call this a secret of the universe, you were offering for them to sing my praises at one point! Why'd you Test us back then? Who told you to go about Testing folks? You Test anyone else lately? Anyone interesting? Our little brother might be coming along later. I don't suppose I can ask you to go easy on him? So what would you have done if I'd given into temptation, anyways? Or if I just plain hoofed it back to Zepath without ever asking you for help? I don't suppose you overheard when we repeated your line to Bareen about denial and insinuation, did you? Hey, back when "Uncle Jorah" was trying to tell us not to do magic, you mentioned that he was probably right about us killing ourselves if we tried magic, but - but what? He interrupted you at that point. So are you allowed to interfere or not? What the heck does interference consist of, anyways? Do you like this world? Want to see it continued? At all worried we or our kids might break it someday? Do you really think sparrows are ugly, or were you just trying to piss off Uncle Jorah? Did the others really say that eagles were stupid? Why'd Uncle Jorah call you a "pervert", anyways? Ever been married, Azzazel? Will I get to go to your wedding party someday? Hey, how about a wedding present? I promise I'll bring you a nice gift if you ever get married! So is this the most questions anyone's ever asked you before or what? (Hey, cut me some slack, it's been ages since we spoke to the dude and there's lots to talk about!)
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Feb 12, 2014 05:44
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I am tired, but I will get another batch of questions in first. Tomn. For the love of El, see Azzazel's earlier repeated comments.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:47
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Yay on the vows and apologies from Team for any erm... aspersions cast by association.Pladdicus posted:We don't have to make a decision now. Refuse and put off the marriage so we have time to revisit this later. I am not sure it buys us anything really. The Powers that Be don't care anything about the actual Us. They care about something they think about our Nature. Our word would be required to delay. Maybe we can lay low, but it does not seem likely.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:48
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4. G 5. NOT J. Infact praying to EL would be a better choice. If not votes are now banned or something, I or K then. Also YES on minivote to visit Azz's home.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:49
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Diogines posted:I am tired, but I will get another batch of questions in first. Tomn. For the love of El, see Azzazel's earlier repeated comments. Hey, I tried to avoid stuff that's already been asked and was simply trying to skirt the edge for a lot of those questions! Can't blame me for trying to find a crack, can you?
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Feb 12, 2014 05:51
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Just cut off Enkidel's balls and be done with it. (I know castration by Ishamal does not require any ball cutting).
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Feb 12, 2014 06:06
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SerSpook posted:I want to ask Azzazel if El or the Grigori would like unkindly upon men taking the arts of Labaras and finding better ways to do them. A Terrible Person posted:Questions for Azz: A Terrible Person posted:Can you tell what my motivations are when you watch me, or can you only judge me by my actions? A Terrible Person posted:Will you turn into the goatman from Asahel's dream for me? A Terrible Person posted:Do you like the name Billy? A Terrible Person posted:What do you look like when at rest? Is it that winged figure or a giant goat or something else entirely? Azzazel strikes a pose. He remains a fourteen foot tall immensely beautiful man shaped figure in a fantastical garment made of precious metals and gems, four wings made of gleaming white feathers and a golden light which exudes from the edge of his body. After he finishes striking a pose, he leans over to scratch a goat. A Terrible Person posted:I've been seeing invisible people hanging around when people die. Are those Melachim, Agents of the Temple of El, just gas from eating too much shwarma, or something else entirely? A Terrible Person posted:Is there actually anything worth seeing on Mt. Har? A Terrible Person posted:When I die, can I turn into a red or yellow shape rather than blue? A Terrible Person posted:Who made goblins? A Terrible Person posted:Is it okay to kill baby goblins? A Terrible Person posted:Is it okay to kill a restrained foe? What if it's a monster or demon? A Terrible Person posted:Do you think I should have kids? A Terrible Person posted:Do you think El would approve of me having kids? A Terrible Person posted:"Jorah" seemed to want me alive despite what a horrible monster I am or may become... yet he wants to kill my children if I have any? What made me different from what my children may become? A Terrible Person posted:When I was in the Goblin Cave, did I kill the Zviv with my own strength and abilities? A Terrible Person posted:If given the choice, would you go back and never create goats if you knew they might possibly somehow with no explanation harm the world? IRC posted:<Diog> *JG&HDG*&GSD On closer examination, most of your questions are ones which get an answer Tomn. Tomn posted:I was a screaming lunatic, huh? What was I screaming? Tomn posted:What did it look like/sound like from where you were? Tomn posted:Is "Uncle Jorah" Damat? Tomn posted:Did he really make sparrows? Tomn posted:How's Mt. Har? Tomn posted:Where IS your place, actually? Tomn posted:Are you mad? Tomn posted:Do I scare you? Why or why not? Tomn posted:Do you keep track of EVERY goat out here? Even, like, that one time we ran across that herd with Aaron? Tomn posted:So, hey, um, if you know about the goat piss thing, uh, did you notice anything odd when we asked for your help back when Snarls was sick? Tomn posted:What do you want out of life, Azz? Tomn posted:You ask why I'd want to see "that goat-hating prude," but hey - he DID heal my arm that one time, didn't he? Shouldn't I at least say thanks? Tomn posted:Next time you feel like getting into a fight in my dreamscape, would you mind asking my permission first? Tomn posted:So did you get into trouble for that fight, anyways? Tomn posted:OK, so you really like your goats. Are there any other things I should take especial care of so as not to piss off anyone with similar special interests? Tomn posted:Hey, you got any idea what lies under Zepath? Tomn posted:Do you want us to do anything in particular with Asahel other than not getting him into trouble for his entire life? Tomn posted:Any other powers I should be aware of besides the Melachim? Tomn posted:Wait, is it ONLY the Melachim who are concerned about me? Tomn posted:Is this goat head rock yours? Tomn posted:Who owns Zepath? Tomn posted:Aside from negative attention, any long-term negative effects from my stunt in the caves? Tomn posted:So what the heck is a Xephanim anyways? Don't you call this a secret of the universe, you were offering for them to sing my praises at one point! Tomn posted:Why'd you Test us back then? Tomn posted:Who told you to go about Testing folks? You almost swear one of the goats just snickered. Tomn posted:You Test anyone else lately? Anyone interesting? One of the goats is definatley laughing at you. Tomn posted:Our little brother might be coming along later. I don't suppose I can ask you to go easy on him? Tomn posted:So what would you have done if I'd given into temptation, anyways? Tomn posted:Or if I just plain hoofed it back to Zepath without ever asking you for help? Tomn posted:I don't suppose you overheard when we repeated your line to Bareen about denial and insinuation, did you? Tomn posted:Hey, back when "Uncle Jorah" was trying to tell us not to do magic, you mentioned that he was probably right about us killing ourselves if we tried magic, but - but what? He interrupted you at that point. Tomn posted:So are you allowed to interfere or not? Tomn posted:What the heck does interference consist of, anyways? Tomn posted:Do you like this world? Want to see it continued? At all worried we or our kids might break it someday? Tomn posted:Do you really think sparrows are ugly, or were you just trying to piss off Uncle Jorah? Tomn posted:Did the others really say that eagles were stupid? Tomn posted:Why'd Uncle Jorah call you a "pervert", anyways? Tomn posted:Ever been married, Azzazel? Will I get to go to your wedding party someday? Tomn posted:Hey, how about a wedding present? I promise I'll bring you a nice gift if you ever get married! Tomn posted:So is this the most questions anyone's ever asked you before or what? Diogines fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 06:21
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Well I suppose on our next outing we should bring an extra sandwich.
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Feb 12, 2014 06:41
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Diogines posted:"I'd like a sandwhich please." GET THIS MAN A SANDWICH. edit: he could probably survive Deadly Ham.
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Feb 12, 2014 06:45
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1- perhaps one of my favorite bits thus far: IRC posted: <Diog> *JG&HDG*&GSD 00:03:27 | <Diog> S*HNDGS&**GDGS 00:03:28 | <Diog> *G&DSH&SDG&*(SGD(JGSD(*&GSD*&(DGSSDG 00:03:37 | <Diog> I just finished answering all of the questions and my cat walked over my loving power strip 00:03:39 | <Diog> poof, gone 00:05:46 | <AlthairErin> Looks like your cat serves Azzazel, Creature 00:09:50 | <HiHoChiRho> I take it the pussy is mad at the attention you've paid to our Balls of late I am guessing the Kitty is an Agent of the Powers that Be rather than Azz. Azz just got to run full bore Zen Master on our rear end. What is the sound of one Azz clapping? Does the Goat have the Booty Nature? Sogol fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 06:53
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Diogines posted:One of the goats is definatley laughing at you. What's that goat's problem? He's not named Sandwich, is he? So, will you go easy on my brother when he comes to be Tested? Is Ishamal human? Am I human? OK, Azz, this might sound a bit crazy, but there's something I want to test out. *Point at a goat* Is that a goat? *Point at Azzazel* Are those wings? *Point at stars* Are those stars? *Point wherever* Will you tell me all the secrets of the universe? Hey, it was worth a shot. Seriously, though, what kind of sandwich? And, uh, that guy who was screaming. What WERE you doing to him? Did you ever answer his question? What was the answer? I'll admit, I don't expect a lot of useful answers anymore, I'm just having Fun With Azzazel by this point.
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Feb 12, 2014 07:01
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Ask Azzazel: Hey have you heard of this fantastic simulator that I'm certain you will get an amazing kick out of?
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Feb 12, 2014 07:14
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For a third time,Vavrek posted:"Do you think it is inevitable that I will be smited, if I stay in this world?" It seems like a simple question. Diog never answered my questions about Asherah's children either grumble grumble... (p.s. best cyoa.)
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Feb 12, 2014 07:17
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HK. Followed by I or Not-J depending on the result. I don't expect to hear anything from El, but hey, it doesn't cost us anything, it's worth a shot. Whatever the case, not going along with sterlization. Hell, honestly, I personally don't want any kids, but it seems irresponsible; we don't know anything about the real state of the world, our blood may be needed, our offspring could be important. Demons are growing in power as the line of Labaras weakens, what if whatever the Melachim are cooking up doesn't work out? Of course, maybe the idea is that Labaras' line is supposed to die out, and mankind themselves are to be encouraged to rise up and fight the demons themselves, and gradually supermen will disappear. That might be great, if it turns out that way, we can secretly sterilize our offspring ourselves, for the good of all  . But I'm not banking on that until we know.
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Feb 12, 2014 09:07
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Ask Azz: So why WERE you doing whatever "this" was to him? Does Dream Uncle Jorah serve El? If not, who or what Does he serve? Do you know how the real Uncle Jorah is doing? If yes, how is he doing? That goat charm I showed you earlier, did any of your power go into it? Are you ok with her using your likeness? Are you collecting royalties? Should I diversify my portfolio? If you had to sum up the entirety of the secret to human happiness in one easy-to-print-on a-tshirt phrase, what would that phrase be? I know that you are your own boss, but is there anyone you tend to do the occasional bit of work for? Idle, probably way off-base speculation: Dream Jorah and associates have El locked down/sealed/restrained somehow for some reason, and want to keep it that way. But, they can't keep him fully contained, he's able to exert some influence; pointing us towards Camp Zviv, for example. Also, by allowing the occasional Super Mighty Man to exist, namely us, Labaras, and whoever else was in between. El wants us to spring him, Dream Jorah and co. want to maintain the current status quo. But, they have certain rules they must abide by, which is why they didn't just outright smite us as soon as we blipped on their radar. We have to fulfill some certain conditions before theyre allowed to take direct action, i.e. Becoming Mighty. Now, Ishamal isn't necessarily on their side, but, he likely fears the damage that would occur should the time to fight ever come, that's why he's trying to postpone it by stopping us and others like us from breeding, to keep a cap on our potential and slow down the appearance of others who would share our potential. In my head, I'm drawing sort of a Gurren Lagann parallel; Ish is Lordgenome. He was defeated by Team Dream Jorah, and was forced to make some heavy sacrifices in order to save what was left of humanity. As far as the whole "our offspring may be wicked" reasoning, part of his defeat may have been that Team Dream Jorah converted some of Ish's kids to their side. Hell, maybe that's the reason for the fruity drink firewall, to stop them from influencing us the same way. Either way, although he knows the conflict is inevitable, he's trying to postpone it as long as he can, because he doesnt think we can win, and he doesn't want anyone to go through what he did.
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Feb 12, 2014 09:18
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I'd say we've got about all we're gonna get out of Azz. So 'they' are real, they are Melachim, and they probably aren't gonna let us have kids one way or the other. Well, gently caress. Also it's looking less like we're the chosen one so much as we're just something that happened, most likely. At least so far as this particular group is concerned, anyway. Other factions may exist. (This, is after all 'Clash of the Heavens' ) As for what to do? The more I think about it, the more apprehensive I am about the snippage. I think having a kid right now when we're to weak to even try to defend it is going to end poorly however. Celibacy may be the best option for now. We shall become what we always were : Enkidel, ultimate Goon. The Melachim might be upset, but gently caress em, our existence offends them. It sounds like butting heads with them is going to be inevitable. It might be a foolish option, and it might break the world, but when we get back I'm casting my vote for A
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Feb 12, 2014 09:29
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So, uh, we stole the little goat from Tudiya. Can we have it back so that we don't get in trouble? Do you consider Minotaurs or Satyrs to be within your 'goat' grouping? If so, we will try not to kill them!
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Feb 12, 2014 09:33
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Diogines posted:"Why would you want to go see that goat hating prude again!" To get on his case over his failure to hold up the deal, of course! Surely you'd like to see him embarassed. What do you say?
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Feb 12, 2014 10:02
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Ralith posted:To get on his case over his failure to hold up the deal, of course! Surely you'd like to see him embarassed. What do you say? "Don't call me Shirley."
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Feb 12, 2014 10:14
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Theglavwen posted:That might be great, if it turns out that way, we can secretly sterilize our offspring ourselves, for the good of all ! I hadn't thought of that idea. That's a good idea. It doesn't allay Ishamal's concerns of "People will be freaked out that you can reproduce", but it manages potential long-term concerns about an exploding population of supermen.
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Feb 12, 2014 10:30
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Vavrek posted:! You are assuming your child will go along with it. If we didn't, why should Enkidel Jr.? E: if he doesn't die in the womb 
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Feb 12, 2014 11:10
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You may have missed the word "secretly". The idea is to be a less honest person than Ishamal. Because Enkidel is so good at keeping secrets.
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Feb 12, 2014 11:45
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Azzazel: If we have super powered children, will you take them and keep them safe in your realm for us? Where no one will find them? If needed, will you take our whole family?
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Feb 12, 2014 12:01
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So I've been thinking. We are children of the 21st century, and that comes with a certain amount of baggage that we take for granted. Chief among these is probably the idea that "Progress is good," with all that implies - the celebration of energetic youth over ossified age, the challenging of old assumptions, and the driving belief that change is life. For better or worse, these are the basic cultural assumptions that most of us share, the biases that subconsciously steer our decisions. I wonder, then, if these biases might be in effect here. We listen to Ishamal and we hear "The Old Guard at play. The defending of established interests. Maintaining the status quo. Narrow-minded understanding of the truth." The assumption is that even if Ishamal is sincere, he and the interests he represents are dodderers too focused on protecting what they have to see what could be. But what if they aren't? Ishamal is an extremely old man with upwards of centuries of experience. The beings above him are possibly literally inhuman, with a literally inhuman understanding of the world and how it interacts. Perhaps if they want to maintain the status quo, then there are very good reasons to try and maintain the status quo. Perhaps age does in fact bring a certain amount of wisdom and understanding - certainly it would seem to bring a certain level of knowledge, much more than we possess. Perhaps the world does in fact rest at a tipping point - not as good as is truly possible, but with a vast chasm waiting on either side if it should be tipped over. So by what right do we insist that Ishamal and these other beings are wrong? What drives our belief that despite their untold centuries of collective experience and their certain possession of greater knowledge and secrets than we know of, we still know better than they? How is it that despite the fact that we're essentially wild-rear end guessing, we know best? In amongst the various other reasons available, I'd like to carefully consider a particular one - pride. The belief that we, people of the enlightened 21st century, experimenters from a culture that unlocked the secrets of the universe, arguably for the benefit of all mankind, are more likely to understand the truth of the world than the Bronze Agers living within it - no matter how long they've been living there. The belief that as a protagonist, we shall be privy to secret truths that will in time reveal us to be an agent of positive change no matter what our choices are - that our very destiny is not only to change the world, but to change it for the better. The unwillingness to accept that someone else might know better than us what the correct course of action is, that the wisdom of others might be worth following, even if we follow it sight unseen. The disregard of what others might know, so long as we do not personally know it. Pride, in short, in our choices, our beliefs, and our knowledge - to the exclusion of the choices, beliefs, and knowledge of all others. The same sort of pride that in Madgod led to people clogging up the courts and resources of Ra, trying to open the box, and attempting to eat the godbaby. Now let me make this clear: I am not saying that everyone voting not to go through with the vasectomy is wrong, proud, and stupid. There's certainly valid reasons to doubt Ishamal's story and the wisdom thereof, and I do agree with some of it. But for all that, I think it might be worthwhile to consider how much of our decisions here are driven by our cultural biases and our pride. If we look into our thinking and cut away hubris and ingrained culture, what will we find left? I don't know. We must each of us find the answer for ourselves, in our best approximation of the truth. But speaking for myself? I begin to think that possibly the ancient near-immortal and his angel-buddies may in fact know better than the guy who set himself on fire trying to mindswap with his dog. Voting H + J.
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Feb 12, 2014 13:37
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 06:32 |
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It's a tough choice, but H and J. We can adopt as many children as we can handle. I'm sure there are lots of kids in need of a family. It's not worth subjecting our entire future family to being hunted and destroyed.
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Feb 12, 2014 13:50
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