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Cygni posted:Only in F1 and baseball can blowing money for the sake of blowing money be seen as a positive thing. I would absolutely love to see some IndyCar team pay Sebastian Vettel to run in the Indy 500. Yes I know the 500 is the same day as the Monaco GP I can guarantee that all the eyes of the racing world would be on the little town of Speedway, IN to see how Vettel can handle some real speed. Worldwide TV ratings would probably set all-time records and if he runs this year it'll allow more international exposure for the 2015 season. harperdc posted:I feel like I said that in like 2011, it really makes the most sense if Ford doesn't want back in. Ford-Cosworth is always a great match, but Cosworth making the lump for SRT or Alfa-Romeo would be a great second choice. That was me  From everything I've observed about American Capitalism in my life, I've learned that industries work most efficiently and profitably when there are 3 competitors. You can see it with the "Big 3" American auto companies. You can also see it with the top 4 American cell phone companies. Verizon is the clear leader, AT&T is 2nd, Sprint is 3rd, and T-Mobile is 4th. Considering that both AT&T and Sprint have tried acquiring T-Mobile, it's only a matter of time before that industry reaches it's equilibrium of 3 companies. So it only makes sense to have 3 different engine manufacturers. To that end having all the cars look the same will require more innovation by the engine manufacturers in order to gain a competitive advantage and win.
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Feb 28, 2014 14:46
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Dudley posted:They didn't build an engine for this year. Sorry, should have said didn't, dangers of phone posting. KingShibby posted:I would absolutely love to see some IndyCar team pay Sebastian Vettel to run in the Indy 500. Yes I know the 500 is the same day as the Monaco GP If they'd only let the cars run so they'd actually be fast. They can easily do 240 there, come on. FuzzySkinner posted:Worst thread is down the hall and to the left. I was agreeing with you man, besides I watch more Indy races than anything else.
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Feb 28, 2014 14:58
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Uncle Jam posted:If they'd only let the cars run so they'd actually be fast. They can easily do 240 there, come on. My video response to you for completely missing the point... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGRfNDJglw8&t=57s The point is that whatever money they pay Vettel to run will pay major dividends in terms of exposure and what IndyCar seems to care most about : TV Ratings
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Feb 28, 2014 15:22
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No F1 driver will ever run the 500 unless they were crap and couldn't get a drive in BTCC or fifteen years past their best...
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Feb 28, 2014 15:51
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KingShibby posted:That was me I think it's correct but dangerous causation. At that point you might as well quote De La Soul's song "The Magic Number." For Indy, it's about the numbers -- with three, you're supplying enough teams to make it worthwhile to the manufacturers; not too many (which Honda tolerated but neither would want right now I don't think) and not too few (poor Judd engine RIP). With four, you're getting more to the "not serving enough teams to make the investment worthwhile" area, though if the grid expanded and things stayed stable on the engine front you might lure more people in and find stability with four.
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Feb 28, 2014 15:56
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IceAgeComing posted:No F1 driver will ever run the 500 unless they were crap and couldn't get a drive in BTCC or fifteen years past their best... harperdc posted:with three, you're supplying enough teams to make it worthwhile to the manufacturers; not too many (which Honda tolerated but neither would want right now I don't think) and not too few (poor Judd engine RIP).
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Feb 28, 2014 18:23
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Uncle Jam posted:I was agreeing with you man, besides I watch more Indy races than anything else. My mistake, thought you were being sarcastic. As for Vettel, I don't think you'll ever see him run Indy. I believe a good portion of them are frightened do to seeing what happened with Dan. You have a shot at Kimi when his tenure at Ferrari is up. He's already kind of been interested with the idea already in the past.
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Feb 28, 2014 18:41
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Cygni posted:F1 drivers have historically struggled at Indy anyway. (!!!)
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Feb 28, 2014 18:43
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Fag Boy Jim posted:(!!!) What? In the last 20+ years, ex-F1 drivers really haven't had an easy time. Speed, Dornbos, Alesi, Rubens, Enge, Moreno, Patrese, Salazar, Nakano. Sure, most of em were meh in F1 and in bad rides, but thats what we got. Gurrero and Boesel had some good runs early in their careers, but never won. Really the best guys lately who did F1 before IndyCar have been Sato and Wilson. The last Indy winner from F1 is what, Cheever (lol) 16 years ago? I mean since 1970, the winners with prior F1 starts are Emmo twice, Luyendyke 1.5 times (97 barely counts as a race), and Cheever... even if you count guys that would go on to F1, you only get 2 more wins, JV and Juan. Over 43 races, they havent exactly been dominant. And why should they be? Its a totally different formula that keeps getting further apart and a completely different discipline.
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Feb 28, 2014 19:24
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OP I don't think just going over a bunch of F1 washouts (a lot of whom, like Moreno, were actually fairly successful in Indycar) is grounds to dismiss Vettel by saying "F1 drivers are historically unsuccessful at Indy", especially considering the rich ~history~ of drivers trying to make it on both sides of the pond. Also Riccardo Patrese never drove in Indycar. (Also, you missed Bobby Rahal, and Danny Sullivan re: Indy winners with prior F1 starts) Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 20:02
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I wasn't talking about Vettel, I was just pointing out that not having F1 drivers doesnt really matter. Also yeah, I meant Piquet not Patrese. Patrese was supposed to run in 95 but the team never materialized. Also i forgot like 20 other F1 drivers that ran indy and never did great (Fabi/Johnason etc). Its a different discipline, and hell JV running again is gonna sell more tickets than anyone short of Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso would.
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Feb 28, 2014 20:18
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At Indy, you can still be a great driver in not great equipment and have a shot. Look at Sato two years ago. In F1, the drivers are second to the cars in total. A top flight Indy team isn't going to hire Vettel because they have quality drivers with oval experience already, and Vettel couldn't handle trying to win with a midpack car, IMO. He's not a good fit for Indy.
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Feb 28, 2014 20:36
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VikingSkull posted:At Indy, you can still be a great driver in not great equipment and have a shot. Look at Sato two years ago. In F1, the drivers are second to the cars in total. A top flight Indy team isn't going to hire Vettel because they have quality drivers with oval experience already, and Vettel couldn't handle trying to win with a midpack car, IMO. a good answer. I will say this, and I honestly believe it. If F1 somehow found a way to have Vettel, Hamilton, etc run the 500, I do believe it'd help it's popularity in the states, and the 500 as an event world wide. The last time F1 was truly relevant in the states was during the Watkins-Glen days when you'd see the top talent for both compete in those races.
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Feb 28, 2014 21:11
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On the whole F1 to Indy drivers have fared much better than Indy to F1 drivers, and that is a fact.
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Feb 28, 2014 22:17
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animeliker posted:On the whole F1 to Indy drivers have fared much better than Indy to F1 drivers, and that is a fact.
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Feb 28, 2014 22:34
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Cygni posted:Mario and JV won F1 Championships, and Emmo, Zanardi, and Nigel won IndyCar/CART/IRL championships. It's not a dick measuring competition though so really who cares. It says more about those guys than it does either series. Can we not defend Nigel Mansell here please.
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Feb 28, 2014 22:56
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The most trash F1 WDC for sure, imo.
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Feb 28, 2014 23:09
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IceAgeComing posted:No F1 driver will ever run the 500 unless they were crap and couldn't get a drive in BTCC or fifteen years past their best... So where does Juan fit in this spectrum?
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Mar 1, 2014 01:11
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http://www.sbnation.com/indycar/2014/2/28/5457486/indycar-cosworth-ceo-hal-reisiger more Cosworth news! An interview with CEO Hal Reisiger quote:MW: You've brought up IndyCar several times as of late. How inviting is the current spec and the 2.2 liter V6 for Cosworth.
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Mar 1, 2014 01:17
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Missing Donut posted:So where does Juan fit in this spectrum? Under the "Well past his best" categroy.
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Mar 1, 2014 10:21
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KingShibby posted:My video response to you for completely missing the point... That's cause I what I want to see isn't what Indycar fans want to see I guess. Cygni posted:Mario and JV won F1 Championships, and Emmo, Zanardi, and Nigel won IndyCar/CART/IRL championships. It's not a dick measuring competition though so really who cares. It says more about those guys than it does either series. There is a huge difference between ovals and road courses though. The super old school guys like Mario and AJ though while good drivers also knew how to do racing as a business. I think its important to consider when they went to different series and did well, because they brought the knowledge of how to operate on a race weekend in general. Now that every team is run in a professional way in most series (except the backest of backmarkers) and the divergence of spec means its pretty hard to jump around like that not only 15 years ago but especially now.
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Mar 1, 2014 23:17
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FuzzySkinner posted:a good answer. It'd help raise global interest, but no one here gives a gently caress about F1 drivers to really say it would drive domestic interest up. Kurt Busch will do more on that front than an F1 driver would.
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Mar 2, 2014 05:07
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Also the schedules are simply much busier now than they were back in the 60 and 70s, so seat-swapping is pretty much impossible if you want to challenge for championships. F1 starts in March and is racing more weeks than not through to November; including on the day of the 500 and perhaps the qualifying weekend as well. Sure, IndyCar are only racing until August this year, but its still more racing than USAC typically had in the 70s; and when there were more events in the 60s, it was typical for the bigger guys to miss a few races. At the height of cross-over drivers from 1964-68; the 500 was not held on Monday and often ended up mid-week; which made racing both Monaco and Indy much easier, especially since the first weekend usually seemed to end up clear as well, because they weren't running races every fortnight at that point. Even by the 70s, running a full F1 year and the 500 was impossible - Mario missed Belgium in 1976 and Monaco in 1977 because of Indy, and didn't run at Indy in 79 because of the Monaco GP. Its 100x harder now than it was. In order for someone Vettel to theoretically run at Indy, you'd either need the FIA to clear the last two weeks in May for Indianapolis qualifying and the race which they wouldn't do; IndyCar to allow Vettel to qualify at some other time which they'd get panned for, or for them to return to two weekends of qualifying to allow a race to take place on the second weekend, which we'd all probably love but its a pipe dream. And lets be honest, the chances of four-time F1 World Champion Sebastian Vettel showing up at somewhere like Houston to run during the F1 August break is never going to happen unless IndyCar somehow surpasses pre-split IndyCar in terms of world popularity (although it probably would be very funny...) Not that it matters, because this is really a dumb thing to write about and I'm dumb for typing all these words about it. Can the season start yet so we actually have something interesting to talk about?
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Mar 2, 2014 05:14
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IceAgeComing posted:In order for someone Vettel to theoretically run at Indy, you'd either need the FIA to clear the last two weeks in May for Indianapolis qualifying and the race which they wouldn't do; IndyCar to allow Vettel to qualify at some other time which they'd get panned for, or for them to return to two weekends of qualifying to allow a race to take place on the second weekend, which we'd all probably love but its a pipe dream. And lets be honest, the chances of four-time F1 World Champion Sebastian Vettel showing up at somewhere like Houston to run during the F1 August break is never going to happen unless IndyCar somehow surpasses pre-split IndyCar in terms of world popularity (although it probably would be very funny...) Houston would be a dumb place to race. In fact, I sincerely hope it's off the schedule by next year. loving ended Dario's career which is bullshit. Road America or a place like MIS (IE some place with mystique to it) would make more sense for a one-off. IF the FIA, and/or NASCAR were knocking on the door to IMS? I fully believe they'd find ways to make May work. Probably very much like the way you described. Derrick Walker would be tripping over himself, and likely making new rules in order for entries to happen. But for both aforementioned parties it's not really a pressing issue, nor is it something I'd ever expect them to do. F1 doesn't need Indy though. They don't. Bernie wouldn't make much money off of the whole thing (directly that is), so for him it's very much a non-issue. VikingSkull posted:It'd help raise global interest, but no one here gives a gently caress about F1 drivers to really say it would drive domestic interest up. Right, a guy like Vettel doesn't put more eyes on the television set here. But he would put more eyes for F1 broadcasts in the states, and slowly grow that form of the sport more popular here. He'd get mentioned during the broadcast, on sportscenter, etc. That's way more than what F1 has really gotten in here in the past in the states. Guys like Kurt Busch, Travis Pastrana, etc would be more likely to get people to tune in state-side. Also, agreed IceAgeComing, only 29 more days till St. Pete though! FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Mar 2, 2014 |
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Mar 2, 2014 05:33
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I was intentionally thinking of a dumb example that is racing in August this year; but now I'm imagining how good a Milwaukee race would be with all of the best drivers in the world...
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Mar 2, 2014 05:47
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FuzzySkinner posted:Right, a guy like Vettel doesn't put more eyes on the television set here. But he would put more eyes for F1 broadcasts in the states, and slowly grow that form of the sport more popular here. He'd get mentioned during the broadcast, on sportscenter, etc. That's way more than what F1 has really gotten in here in the past in the states. So you'd like Vettel to run Indy to increase American interest in F1? That's, uh, interesting.
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Mar 2, 2014 06:01
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VikingSkull posted:So you'd like Vettel to run Indy to increase American interest in F1? That's, uh, interesting. I think you've got me a little mixed up. I was just saying how it'd help both parties (in theory). TBH, I'd like to see Former, Current and Future F1 drivers race the 500 so it would raise it's profile internationally. I'd care far more about that honestly. That's something I'd find amazing to see occur. Like when the press from the UK was covering every move Mansell was making back in 1993 for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmJ42g8MUm4 But one cannot put the cart before the horse. The 500 must be a bigger deal domestically first. But really...we're on shaky ground even talking about this. I don't want to say Beetlejuice again, if you're catching my drift. So we should just leave this be.
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Mar 2, 2014 06:31
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Here's my idea for a race: You get all the best drivers in the world and you put them on My Little Ponies or something and then because (reasons) something something (Indycar is awesome) something something (Month of May) something something (the split) something (bigger than F1)!. Also, something something (Gordon shouldn't have gone to NASCAR) something something, (30 cars at every race) something something and we should also race at (insert stupid track Indy will never race at here).
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Mar 2, 2014 14:48
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LordPants posted:Here's my idea for a race: You get all the best drivers in the world and you put them on My Little Ponies or something and then because (reasons) something something (Indycar is awesome) something something (Month of May) something something (the split) something (bigger than F1)!. Also, something something (Gordon shouldn't have gone to NASCAR) something something, (30 cars at every race) something something and we should also race at (insert stupid track Indy will never race at here).
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Mar 2, 2014 15:08
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Wait whaaaaaaaaaaaaat http://www.racer.com/index.php/52-indycar/101545-long-beach-city-council-ponders-bid-for-f1-return Racer.com posted:"What will transpire Tuesday night is that the city council will vote on whether they wish to issue an RFP (Request For Proposal) to determine whether Long Beach will continue with the IndyCar weekend and the Grand Prix Association of Long Beach or consider another party that wants to conduct a Formula 1 race," said Jim Michaelian, the GPALB president and CEO who is currently preparing for the 40th annual Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach on April 11-13. "Our contract runs through 2015 and we are asking the city to extend this very productive relationship for another five years if the RFP is denied." Chris Pook: "Formula 1 will be in Southern California by 2016." I don't quite know what to make of this.
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Mar 2, 2014 18:37
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So is NJGP dead, or are they going to get all 1982 and try running 3 races in the US?
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Mar 2, 2014 18:44
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So I guess Indycar is going to Fair Park now instead of Long Beach?
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Mar 2, 2014 18:54
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Irwindale.
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Mar 2, 2014 19:37
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Fag Boy Jim posted:So is NJGP dead, or are they going to get all 1982 and try running 3 races in the US? I think that is Bernie's "Vision" yes. Bernie is a such a douche bag. Bob Varsha @bobvarsha “@besweeet: @bobvarsha Which IndyCar events will you be covering?” Indy Carb day, Pocono and Toronto. Bob Varsha @bobvarsha “@MadMike294: @bobvarsha @BenzKompressor You're doing IndyCar? Subbing for Leigh when he's doing F1?” Now and then, yes. Bob Varsha is going to be covering three indy events this year.
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Mar 2, 2014 19:52
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Boomer The Cannon posted:Irwindale. Thought Irwindale closed? Also rip Long Beach the only good street course on the schedule.
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Mar 2, 2014 20:50
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WindyMan posted:Chris Pook: "Formula 1 will be in Southern California by 2016." Never gonna happen. Bernie is taking a page out of the NFL playbook and using the threat of going to LA as a way to extort money out of other local govts (NY/NJ, TX) To get Long Beach up to F1's dumb standards would take an absolutely insane amount of money. Like 200m+... who is going to pay for that?
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Mar 2, 2014 21:13
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Of course F1 at Long Beach isn't going to happen. Either 1 of 2 things will happen. Thing 1 they say no to F1 and Indycar keeps the race or 2 they say yes to bernie and then F1 puts it off every year for 10 years and comes out with a statement saying "americans are such uncultured swine they don't appreciate the grand elegance that is formula 1 so piss off tossers" and they take their ball and go home.
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Mar 2, 2014 21:30
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I hope Indycar doesn't lose Long Beach.
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Mar 2, 2014 22:31
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How many times has Bernie tried to create a GP here, and then he goes "gently caress this", then leaves the event gasping for air? Dude almost killed off the Glen if not for the France Family coming in. (Yes, the France Family actually did something nice) Long Beach, Caesars Palce, The Meadowlands, and Belle Isle were all once/supposed to be F1 GP's. All wound up becoming Indycar events, and two are still Indycar events to this day.
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Mar 3, 2014 20:47
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Watkins Glen was removed from the schedule because the organizers had no money, not the other way around. The track was also seen as somewhat run-down and unsafe, even for 1970s standards.
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Mar 3, 2014 20:51
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